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I am about at my limit.....

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
I have a 15 year old maine coone cat, her name is Samantha. When we first got her, we had another cat, which after about a year or so was hit by a car. After that, she was an only cat.
I moved out of my parents house when I got married and took her with me. I noticed that she constantly pees on the housebreaking pads that I have under the litter box! And she won't bury her business, but scratches the linoleum and the wall instead. I clean that litterbox at least 3 times a day and change the litter out once a week. I dont understand the problem. She has even scratched up the housebreaking pad and pee'd on the linoleum!!!! I am not sure how to stop this, or if there is any way to stop it. I haven't caught her yet, and I don't want to try to discipline her without catching her in the act. Any advice is greatly appreciated. I do have 2 other cats, and I know she doesnt like to share a litterbox, but even before the 2 new cats, she was doing it.
post #2 of 31
Have you taken her to the vet? There is a chance that she may be doing this to alert your attention to a different problem. There can be a UTI, or something going on. My boss had a cat who suddenly started peeing in the middle of her bed. I urged her to take her to the vet, and she said her cat was fine. After she had done it a few more times, she took the girl to the vet, and found she had a bladder infection.

With 3 cats you should have 4 pottyboxes. I read somewhere that you need one more pottybox then you have cats. Imagine... 5 boxes in my house!! Three in my bathroom closet (easier cleaning for me), one in the living room, and one at the other end of the house.

So far only accident was when MyRage used a blanket. That blanket was used for camping, and my niece threw it on the floor in her bedroom. My cat had to go, and some pillows had fallen on her pottyboxes. (the one in the closet) Since they were covered by something she shouldn't potty on, she chose the blanket that smelled like dirt, grass, smoke, and otherstuff.
post #3 of 31
Also, your cat may be bullied by the others when she's trying to do her business. Use a good enzyme cleaner, like Anti Icky Poo, Nature's Miracle, or Simple Solution, to get rid of the cat urine odor and stain.

It is possible she's had a urinary tract infection for a very long time...do make an appointment quickly, to eliminate any medical condition as a possible cause.

You may also wish to consider confining kitty to a room of her own, with a litter box, when you know she's getting ready to use the box, in case her problem stems from sharing the litter box with other cats.

Good luck; keep us posted,

Nancy E. Wigal

post #4 of 31
Thread Starter 
I know it isn't medical. She's been to the vet twice since then, and has had antibiotics once when she was sick. They told me she had a cold, after they ran some blood tests to rule that out. I know the other cats arent bullying her, because shes the big mama of the house. I mean, it's not staining the floor, and it isn't smelling. She's not going anywhere other than on the floor, and she did it even before we had the other 2. I think its a preference thing, and once shes used 3 or 4 times, that's it. I don't know. Its just kind of frustrating, thats all. But I did take her to the vet, and we were able to rule any health issue out.
Thanks for the advice.
post #5 of 31
How about trying Cat Attract brand cat litter, just for grins and giggles, to see if she'll use the box?

Or, (just thinking out loud), could it be she may want another type of litter box? For example, if you're using a shallow litter pan, would a box with high walls, or a hood on top might tempt her to use the box?

Just more things to think about...
post #6 of 31
You said that you took her to the vet...did they do a urinalysis? I know that Willow had been peeing on the newspaper right next to her litter box, and it turned out that she had a lot of bacteria in her urine. The first round of antibiotics didn't cure her, so she's on round two right now, for three weeks.

Assuming that there really aren't any physical problems, I would try getting a larger litter box, and maybe a different type of litter as well. If you're using clay, you might try those absorbant crystals. Also, are the housebreaking pads designed to attract pets to them? Maybe you could try putting a different material under the litter box, like a plastic bag or newspaper.

Some cats just don't bury their wastes regularly. I know that I have had that problem with both of my babies.
post #7 of 31
Thread Starter 
I don't know. It seems that the last few days, she has become more social, and is using the bigger litter box pretty good. Its one of those that have a lid, and I didnt put the lid on.
The housebreaking pads are actually for dogs like to line the kennels with, but I use it under the litter box because it helps to keep the mess down when Smudge digs to Timbuktu. I think that maybe I'll just watch her and see what happens.
Now, shes clawing the carpet. Whats that about? Is she sharpening her claws? Is she just crazy???
She beats up on my siberian husky, and poor Bjourne is terrified of her! He wont even walk past her anymore!
post #8 of 31
Thread Starter 
I am at a loss, and I am hoping that some of you have some suggestions...I have 3 cats....one is a 15 year old Maine Coone cat named Samantha, 1 is a 2 year calico named Little Miss, and the other is a 1 year old (estimated) tabby, I guess, named Smudge. SHE IS ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, HORRIBLE!!!!!!! Shes pure stubborness. Samantha has a very easy going personality. She gets jealous, but shes gotten past it. Little Miss is also easy going. Both are very loveable. And then theres Smudge. Smudge. She is the devious of the three. She is only happy when shes causing chaos and upset. I love her to death, but I am through with her!
Little Miss is VERY pregnant. She looks like she swallowed a cantaloupe. Smudge WILL NOT leave her alone. She is constantly beating up on her! I adopted Smudge first, she was a stray. Samantha let her know who was boss, it was fine after a week. Then I adopted Little Miss who had been injured on her back paw, at the bend on the outside of the leg. Its been a month, and everytime the thing gets close to healing, Smudge causes it to be ripped back open again and blood is everywhere. The vet didnt want it covered, just a little bit of neosporin until it scabbed over. Well, here we are, again last night, theres a scuffle, caused by the one and only Smudge. It ends with Little Miss bleeding and upset, Samantha's agitated, Bjourne (my dog) trying to be the champion, and I have been run over in the process, and am also bleeding.
I can't discipline her. Number 1 she doesnt care, and number 2...well, she doesnt care. I know that cats fight among themselves, but this is getting to be a bit ridiculous. She crawls all over the counter tops, which I wont stand for, but how many times must I say NO and put her down??? She chases Little Miss out any litter box the poor girl goes to. The only one she doesnt get to mess with is Samantha, because Samantha gives it back, and tends to stop her before she gets too far.
If anyone has any advice on how to discipline Smudge, who is obviously in her terrible somethings, I would appreciate it very much. My patience has worn out, and my skin cant take anymore abuse!!!
post #9 of 31
With Buddy I have resorted to hissing at him if I see him even start to crouch or do something I don't want him to. Or scuff my foot on the carpet making a noise he doesnt like. I have also picked him up and dropped him into a big padded computer chair, then I give him a 'push' to roll him over and into a submissive posture. I like to think this is letting him know somehow that No I do not want him pawing at the door and meowing but I want him to lay in his chair and be quiet.

Once in awhile, throwing a toy in front of him has also helped break him from doing something bad he was going to do like chase KC, but usually there are not enough little toys within reach quick enough to throw. He also has gotten a few time outs in the bathroom after chasing her to break him of that "gotta chase" attitude he can get into when hes feeling frisky? I also make it a point to get right there and say "NO" loudly and "protect" KC as best as I can by blocking Buddy and letting him know that I like the other cat.

Other then that, we have considered some of that feliway spray and products but because of the cost have not followed through. Buddy is also getting along a little better with KC now as well so we might not need them.

Of course, now Buddy has taken to being a beast in the morning to get us up and get him fed.. even so far as to stalk down KC a bit (Like Elmer used to when he wanted something..freaky). So we have to figure out how to break him of that behavior now, or maybe KC will if she gets braver.
post #10 of 31
If Little Miss is pregnant, keep her in a room all to herself. She needs peace and quiet and not stress. Is Smudge spayed? Smudge is not being devious or evil, she is being a kitten. And if she was rescued from outside, she never got to be a kitten and is for the first time in her life being one. Momcats will sit on their babies before they let them play when they are outside (because of the threat of predators) Put Little Miss in a room by herself with a few nesting box options and keep her quiet and have more patience with Smudge, she will grow out of her playfulness,but that is all it is- pure kitten playfulness-
post #11 of 31
It makes me sad when cats get called names like horrible! Smudge is still a baby!!. Sophie is 11 months old and she jumps all over Rosie but i know she's just playing because thats what kittens do.

When their like that to me it's like a two year old child where you have to keep things out of reach in case they knock them over, or you have to keep saying "NO" to them because they don't fully understand?!.

It's all down to patience in the end.
post #12 of 31
By the way, something I have noticed in kittens, is they feed off our energy, whether negative or positive they feed on it. Prowler is the most tenacious kitten I have ever encountered. Even when bullied by the big kids she will NOT back down. If we hiss at her when she does something wrong, and put her away from the object, she attacks our feet. LOL She has moxy this one, it will be interesting to see how she develops as she grows. One thing for sure at her 6 month birthday she is going in to be spayed that morning! No lectures please, my vet does not believe in early spay and will not do them. I respect him enough to follow his lead- Everything you do with your kitten now, will be with them as they grow, so treat them with love and respect and don't lose your sense of humor and your patience.
post #13 of 31
Sounds like Prowler and Sophie are alike because when she was born Emma said Sophie was the most confident one amongst the litter!, and she showed that as a tiny kitten with Rosie by not being bullied by her, not that Rosie was a bully because Sophie never gave her the chance!!
post #14 of 31
Bakker at 6 months test his limits constantly!! He knows that Bobber is the alpha. He pushes it with OX but OX has seen this before and stands his ground. It will be interesting to see what happens when Bakker gets bigger. As for Grizzly he constantly climbs on top of her -its funny because she is so chubby! She however tolerates him quite a bit mainly I think because she had 6 litters before spaying and LOTS of kittens and puts up with him because if it. Bakker was a rescue and the rescue placed allowed the cats there to crawl up table, kitchen counter etc... Because he was too young for that he's been good in that regard. But I have to yell at times and clap my hands. Sounds like you Smuge is in her "terrible two's". Make sure you have lots of toys all over the house. It works well to distract them. Work your vet let you use "vet wrap" on the injury??? It doesn't stick to fur. Keep posting on the improvement!!
post #15 of 31
Your Smudge could be my Koko. She will be turning 2 on April 22 this year and in the last 2 weeks has finally showed signs of slowing down a bit. Koko bullies anyone she wants to, is constantly on places where she knows she shouldn't be, and lets out a huge MEOOOWWWWLLLLL when I try to discipline her. Her preference is to pick on cats smaller than she or ones that are ill. Smudge is probably picking on Little Miss simply because she is pregnant.

Have a tremendous amount of patience and complete consistency with her. The stubborn ones take longer, but are that much better once they come around. Koko is actually becoming my sweet little girl of late (FINALLY!!).

I agree with MA: Keep Little Miss in a separate room from Smudge. It is very possible that Smudge will try to kill the kittens when they are born if she has any territorial aggression that is motivating her.
post #16 of 31
Mark who was big even by Maine Coon standards by the time he was eight or nine months old, decided my poor little elderly vicket was the one he wanted to play with- and while she'll never hit anyone back, we had weeks of spitting and swearing as he bounced on her. Absolutely no malice, he just liked her. It was like watching Tigger play with Eeyore. Jake was very much the same from four months old but just didn't know when to stop, and was bigger and stronger than the other two which made for the same problem. The breeder suggested that if he really got over the top- and he was like a white fluffy pogo stick at times for a few months! - to gently hold his shoulders, push him down and hold him down for a few seconds, as that what the mothers did to tell their kittens 'stop biting and jumping on me, you're driving me nuts!' I only had to do it once, and I've never seen a kitten look so shamefaced, he knew exactly what it meant! (bearing in mind too that this is a kitten and a cat who's favourite game is to 'wrestle' including being pushed over, rolled over and gently duffed up. He knew the difference! It didn't stop him playing at all, but he didn't get to that point of total wild, manic attack play again.

Something that's occured to me and I'd be interested to hear from any of the forum experts- my older cats always absolutely understand 'no', even in gentle and very ordinary tones of voices, I can say 'no' quietly to Vicket across a room and she freezes and looks at me to check. It does seem to take though three or so years before they learn this. Mark was nearly three and hadn't yet got it when he died, and none of the raggies yet respond at all to the word or tone of voice, they just don't seem ready yet. The only things that really work with them are physically changing the environment, and removing whatever is the problem, including them if they're the ones causing it!
post #17 of 31
I firmly believe that cats understand us better than we understand them. I know that when his brother Bartee died so unexpectedly and Shredder went off the deep end, the only way I could prevent shredder from self imploding was to sit him on my lap and tell him what happened to his brother. After that, he was subdued and sad but no longer a maniac running around looking for his brother. I know that they respond to sounds and tone, and they pick up on our moods quickly.

I cannot recommend highly enough for people with more than one cat to pick up Pam Johnson Bennett's book Cat vs Cat it is wonderful giving far more insight into cat communications and how to read your cat, its whiskers, ears, tail placement, hair placement and environment. Really a great book!
post #18 of 31
I can be sitting in a room with 2 dogs and a bunch of cats, say "no" to one of them that is misbehaving and the only one that responds to my no is the one that is misbehaving. They sure do understand you a lot better than most people give them credit for. They may be too stubborn to follow your suggestion, but they do understand you.

MY OTB dog Ellie Mae loved to "sneak" in bed with us. It was a game with us - OK if she stayed by our feet but not OK if she tried to share the pillow with us. Being the stubborn girl that she was, she would inch her way up the bed to the pillow. I would simply tell her that it was either the foot of the bed or the floor. She would test me with a smile, a lick and a tail wag, I would repeat the suggestion, she would give me a "hrumff" then replant herself by our feet.

The stubborn ones may be the hardest to follow your lead, but once they do, it is a joy to watch!
post #19 of 31
Thread Starter 
I am sorry if it makes you sad that I said that Smudge is horrible, but she is. I love her to death...but shes making me nuts!! There have been a lot of good suggestions, especially the one about taking the shoulders and holding her down. I have had kittens, and have never encountered one as strong willed as Smudge. Some days shes busy antagonizing Bjourne (my siberian husky) other days her interest lies in the fish. I know that it take patience, and I have a lot of them...but I cant discipline her. No to her means "well....I am going to look at you for a minute and let you think I might listen...oops! There goes your glass of water off of the counter Mama. Sorry" She truly doesnt understand NO. Toys only entertain her for a little while. The longest thing she has ever played with has been my husbands valentines day balloon that I gave him. She would chase the ribbon, and then grab it and run through the house with this huge balloon banging off the walls and ceilings.
She steals things from on top of the refrigerator. This morning it was the package of advantage. I found that in my shoe!
I dont know. Little Miss and Samantha know what no means, and they listen. Smudge is just her own kind I guess.
But I appreciate all of the suggestions!!!
As for Little Miss...she seems to like the bathroom counter! I think she may end up having her babies in there.
post #20 of 31
You can't discipline cats period. It doesn't work. They aren't like dogs, they don't process the same. You redirect them. I really suggest you look into books by Wendy Christensen, Outwitting Cats, Pam Johnson Bennett- Think Like A Cat, Hiss & Tell, Psycho Kitty
Also look into Bach Flower remedies to calm your kitten down a bit- sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. But stomping your feet, yelling, clapping your hands etc...all that means to them is funtime, Try hissing low and gutteral. Also I wouldn't advise the holding down by the shoulders. Unless done gently and correctly it can send the wrong message to your cat and create in her a fear of you.

I know it sounds complicated, but it isn't. It is redirecting your thinking, lowering what you expect of her and allowing her to be a kitten. Create a special space in your home temporarily that she can play on safely. Empty a bookshelf and let her play on the shelves and lay on the top.
post #21 of 31
I have had 2 just like your Smudge, right down to the pushing stuff off the counter and stealing. They drove me NUTS!!!!! I was even considering rehoming Pepper at one time. Both of them got much better after being spayed. Pepper wanted kittens so badly, that she became a different cat when we took in Scooter and she adopted him as her kitten. I know how it feels to love a cat dearly, but wish you could spank them and send them to their room without dinner. Scooter is 8 months old now and testing his limits. Fortunately he knows who is boss around here, and will calm down if I hold him and grab him by his scruff. Good luck on maintaining your sanity until Smudge calms down.
post #22 of 31
My Siamese is always on counter or looking in the sink. He even will try to eat cooking food. I've sprayed him a thousand times. Guess what? He still keeps jumping. I've given up. If I'm nearby I just pick him up and put him on the floor. Now my new cat does the same thing. It's pointless. It's not like a dog that can be trained.
post #23 of 31
If your showing that your uptight with Smudge shes going to sense it.

I don't yell, stomp my feet or anything that will make them jump with fright, and i'd never hold them down like was mentioned or even scruff them.

Sophie is still at the playful, mischevious age, and at the moment she's found a new toy which is to see if she can pull the tall twigs from out the vase i have in the corner!.

I must have been out my seat more that 7 times last night to go over to her and tell her "No" then throw one of her balls across the room to distract her from them, but she is beginning to know as soon as i go over whats going to happen?!

Rosie was the same with the twigs when she was young and she learnt in the end.

Theres a saying " Cats own us, we don't own them", and i believe that!
post #24 of 31
Thread Starter 
I am starting to get a little annoyed with my cat Samantha. I posted this issue before, and didnt really get a lot of response other than "take her to the vet".
Heres the story....I have three cats. I have an older one who is almost 16, (shes the problem cat), a rescue thats about a year and a half, Smudge and then Little Miss, my last rescue, who had kittens over the weekend.
Friday night, Little Miss was in labor, and getting ready to have her kittens. I am sitting in our living room, and in comes Samantha. She pee'd right on the carpet in front of the tv. I yelled "NO!" and grabbed her and put her in one litterbox, held her there, and then put her in the other box and held her there for a minute, no longer. I wanted her to understand that this is a no-no. She used to go right outside of the litterbox. That stopped once she discovered that there was another litterbox in another room she could use also.
Every night this week that I have come home, there has been poops in a corner in the living room. And I am almost certain shes peeing there too, but I have caught her since then. This started when Little Miss had her kittens, and it keeps happening. Last night, she was circling the living room and I told my husband to put her in the litterbox. He took her to the one in our bathroom, and she growled, but she used it. This morning I placed her in 3 times and she growled each time and ran out. She met Little Miss in the kitchen this morning and growled and hissed at her. (Little Miss's kittens are in my room, Samantha doesnt mess with them).
I dont know. It is not a health problem. We have eliminated that numerous times. Is she rebelling?? Is she just ornery??? What can I do??? I need help! I am at a loss. But I can not having her doing her business on the carpet. I do have 2 litterboxes, and I scoop them 3 or 4 times a day, and I add a little fresh litter on days that I dont change out the whole thing, so its clean. I dont expect them to use a dirty box. I dont know. It was suggested that I put her sleep, because shes almost 16. I dont want to, and I wont do that to her. Shes healthy, everything is in great shape given her age. The vet was impressed that she was as healthy as she was. I wont put her sleep because I am suffering. I love her way too much. And I show her the same amount of affection and attention like before.
I dont know. I read through the other threads, and have tried most of what has been suggested. I just dont want her to be a lost cause. I dont want to give up on her, either. I think she can learn, I just dont know whats going on. Shes acting like her normal self, and shes not acting funny.
Please HELP!!!!!
post #25 of 31
I can't give any advice apart from you have to understand that Samantha in human age is an elderly lady now.

Yelling at her, grabbing hold of her and holding her down in a litterbox is certainly not going to help her!

Maybe you need to take her for a second opinion?!.
post #26 of 31
she's probably a bit stressed. try a feliway plug and putting out an extra litter box.

make sure the pee is cleaned throughly as cats noses are 14 times stronger than our and one whiff of pee and she will keep using the same spot.

maybe you could contain her in one room for the time being?
post #27 of 31
I have to agree with Susan there!

My previous cat, Disco, as a young cat was very well behaved - but feisty - and when she aged, she became rather nonchalant about the rules. She would go to the toilet in the kitchen and sleep where she wasn't allowed. We accepted that and worked around her - just as you would with an elderly parent or relative that lived with you.

I also agree that a second opinion may be of some use!
(Disco was poorly, but she was acting like herself with only a more nonchalant manner)
post #28 of 31
I understand what your going thru. We had the same issue with our old lady Sara, may she rest in peace. She was 21 when we lost her. Around age 17 she started peeing on the floor. At first we didn't know which cat was doing it, we have 4, so we set up the cam and let it run all day. Upon watching it we discovered it was her. My partner was heartbroken as he had her since she was 8 weeks. Anyway, I pointed out something to him that was recorded. After peeing she scratched at the floor trying to cover it up, the same way they do in the litterbox. I pointed out to him that I believed that at age 17 perhaps she's a little senile and thinks she's in her litterbox. I also suspected that perhaps she was having trouble climbing into the litter box. We have covered ones. We purchased another one for her with low sides and kept her confined to a separate room for a few days, and that seemed to solve the problem. In your particular case she may also be a little perturbed about having the kittens in the house too. Have a good look at litter boxes and see if perhaps the sides are too high for her to get in?
post #29 of 31
Also, you could try putting a third litter pan - or a tray with litter in it - on the spot where she is leaving her business in the living room. She is an elderly cat, and she may just be stressed by having the kittens nearby. Cats seem to be atuned to each others and perhaps she is confused by the new smells and noises associated with Little Miss. Little Miss will definitely smell different right now because of the kittens and that is probably why Samantha is hissing at her. Poor old girl - cats don't do change well under the best of circumstances and when they become older, it becomes even more difficult. It may appear that little has changed since the arrival of the kittens, but that is a big change in her books. She is trying to 'reassure' herself by marking her territory. Don't yell at her when you put her into her litter box, but reassure her and talk to her gently. And introduce her to the litter box where she has chosen to go. It well also help to reassure her that her world is still safe and ok for her - even if it does have kittens in it now.

post #30 of 31
I just merged all these threads together, so as to let the members get a clearer picture of all your problems you are having.

Please stop trying to discipline you cats the way you are. All you are doing is scaring them and adding to the anxiety in the household. Their anxiety. You, getting so upset when they do not act like you want them to, just adds to the problem. They are cats, they do things for reasons, not to make us mad, not to make us want to punish them.

Right now with all the problems, the addition of kittens is going to add to the situation, not help it. As the kittens get older, you will find that some of your cats behavior will intensify as they deal with the new smells and the new arrivals.

I would suggest, if you have had Samatha to more than one vet, to see if she is healthy, that you consider bringing a cat behaviorist into your home and let her or him guide you.
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