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post #61 of 81
Maybe it just affects some cats differently? Maybe some cats can handle it better? Maybe some cats didn't heal as well or as fast? I guess we'll never know.

Our new cat Max is 6 years old... and front paw declawed. He is THE sweetest, most loving cat I've ever met (don't tell Baylee) so obviously the surgery didn't affect him badly.

As for why there are so many declawed cats up for adoption? Max was up because the owner's kid was allergic. So it COULD be that they didn't treat the right problem.... another thought is that maybe the declawed cats are the ones shelters figure will be adopted faster (I saw 3 at Petsmart today) and so they display those first, or PTS others after a while? Not sure... ignore me!
post #62 of 81
I am sorry your cat went through that and did come out of the surgery a forever changed cat (emotionally).

I guess that is why this is such a heated topic. Everyone is feeling for or against based on their experiences.

I DO resent strongly however, those who say I am cruel (or it is cruel) to de-claw a cat. I am not about to give away my precious girl to someone because she won't stop clawing everything in my house. I am one of those NON-lazy owners who has tried everything first. My cat LOVES me and where she lives and so I don't think that owners who declaw should be lumped in with animal abusers.

Those other countries that have declawing bans also don't see anything wrong with letting their cats outside to roam. MANY more people in Europe for example, turn them out into their "gardens" (yards to us). In other words they let them be cats. They let them keep their claws AND let them outside to go hunting with those same claws.
post #63 of 81
katie,

Most people who turn in cats for behavioral issues scarcely fess up to the real reason why. Usually they say someone is "allergic" they are "moving and can't have the cat." But they very rarely will tell a shelter volunteer that the cat has behavior issues when that cat is declawed.
post #64 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by hissy
Most people who turn in cats for behavioral issues scarcely fess up to the real reason why. Usually they say someone is "allergic" they are "moving and can't have the cat." But they very rarely will tell a shelter volunteer that the cat has behavior issues when that cat is declawed.
Actually my friend was telling me that today when I said I was amazing that someone would give Max up... (about how people will rarely tell the shelter the reason).

But there are so many declawed kitties out there who are SO loveable... Max has already made his litter box his own so I don't foresee any immediate litter problems... so why was he and a couple other declawed cats out there given up? Wish I knew... also wish I could adopt them all...
post #65 of 81
Heidi,

I couldn't agree more that all vets should be required to accurately portray what the surgery entails. And that they shouldn't be so casual with offering such a drastic solution right off the bat.

Declawing is a widely unnecessary procedure, but declawing is also not cruel...when done properly...so I'm totally against banning it as a choice, but would love to see a certification requirement for vets on proper declawing procedure [it's not hard, I've just known too many vets that were lazy beyond belief], and requiring fair and open communication with owners over what is truely involved in declawing and the vast array of alternatives.

I don't disagree that some things need to change in regards to how declawing is generally handled, but an all out ban is not a viable solution IMO.

Spotz
post #66 of 81
I believe that it is NOW because i did research on it..just wished i would have done my research a long time ago
post #67 of 81
I have said this many times before and I will say it again, I think declawing is inhumane and cruel. It leaves your cat maimed, sore, confused and in some cases, it's psychologically damaging. Declawing has so many alternatives and it makes me sick to think that people are too lazy to teach their cats how to use a scratching post! Why adopt a cat if all you care about is keeping your furniture looking nice?

Some people declaw their cats because they scratched their kids, why punish the cat? Kids, if not taught properly, like to pull, pinch, grab, tease and torture their cats. Cats are naturally going to defend themselves, thats the only way they can protect themselves from those situations. Put it this way, if your child scratched you, would you ever consider have their first knuckles hacked off?

What about climbing? Climbing is second nature to cats. If a declawed cat escaped outside, it would be in constant danger. If a predator was after him, he would naturally go to the highest place possible, almost impossible with no claws. How would he defend himself? What if your cat was up high and slipped? A cat with claws would pull itself back up, a declawed cat would fall.

Cats also depend on their claws to hunt, play and groom. Owning a cat means that you can live with the full package. There is no excuse why anyone should declaw their cat for their own convenience...

Declawing leaves your cat crippled and mutilated. Think about putting your self through that torture, and PLEASE do not declaw your cats!
post #68 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by catlover67
I am sorry your cat went through that and did come out of the surgery a forever changed cat (emotionally).

I guess that is why this is such a heated topic. Everyone is feeling for or against based on their experiences.

I DO resent strongly however, those who say I am cruel (or it is cruel) to de-claw a cat. I am not about to give away my precious girl to someone because she won't stop clawing everything in my house. I am one of those NON-lazy owners who has tried everything first. My cat LOVES me and where she lives and so I don't think that owners who declaw should be lumped in with animal abusers.

Those other countries that have declawing bans also don't see anything wrong with letting their cats outside to roam. MANY more people in Europe for example, turn them out into their "gardens" (yards to us). In other words they let them be cats. They let them keep their claws AND let them outside to go hunting with those same claws.
My only reason for thinking it shoudn't be done, is simply because cats came with claws, and I think it is unfair for a human to CHOOSE surgery for them if the surgery is not beneficial to their health and wellbeing. I am not saying, that all declaws are not beneficial.

There are a few cases where it can help. In MOST cases however, I believe that the humans could take a little more time with the cat to work with it. I also believe that if humans could use the soft paws or claws, that can help also.

I've had lots of surgeries in my life. I hate surgery, unless it is a life saving procedure, or helps keep one's health in check (Spaying for cats, etc), it's unnecesarry.

I am also not saying that the owners who have had their cats declawed are all bad... that isn't the case. People make decisions based on their own lives. In some cases it does need done, in others... it's purely a lazy decision IMO.

Also... to clarify... I never said YOU personally was cruel (other's have said it's cruel, I haven't). I never called you lazy. I simply said that I saw it as a lazy way out based on people I've known. You said you've tried alternatives, and that is good. You gave your cat a chance before you put her through surgery. In your case it worked out, was she a kitten? You may have been meaning someone else, but I never compaired declawing with animal abusing.

I do see that it can help in certain cases. But NOT IN ALL. I just don't like the fact that it is done.

I would rather work with my cats. I would rather have scratches on my hands from them playing. I would rather know that I left my cats as close to the way that they were born as I could (Spayed being the only alteration). My personal opinion (Wich does NOT state in any way that other opinions are wrong, or that others are mean or cruel if they believe otherwise) is that cats should be left the way that our creator has meant them to be. (We should desex our cats for obvious reasons).

I am just ocmpletely against the vets who do NOT offer education with their declaws. Owners who don't search out info on it before they decide. Ignorance can and has and will hurt others always. It's not the owner's fault that the vet never offered info, but it is their fault for not looking into it before. Especially people who are active on the internet, we have a wealth of info at our fingertips.

Sometimes humans who are about to have surgery, will look up info on it for their own curiosity. They want to understand what will be done to their bodies. The want to understand what is happening. shouldn't it be the same for our cats? If we were about to put them through surgery, shouldn't we want to know what THEY will be put through? I would. But that's me. I'm not anyone else here, as nobody else is me. I love the fact that we are al different, and we can have different opinions, and still get along and be friends. Especially while sharing our thoughts and feelings on certain subjects without taking things completely personal, and thinking that someone's words aren't directed at a person's feelings... (Did that make sense?)

Thankyou

Yeah, I did know a cat who had a bad experience with declaw. I did remember after my post, as I was reading it, that I did know two other cats who were declawed. I met them both as they were recovering from the surgery. The male was friendly and loving. The female was scared, and skittish. Not very friendly at all. They lived at a petstore I worked at, and since I met them after they were declawed... I can't say how they were before the surgery. Buddy may have always been a sweet loving boy. Sabrina may have always been a skittish, scared, private girl... But I wonder why they would spend so many days at the shelter picking out a cat with a certain personality to live in their store, when it didn't like people? I am curious if maybe she was more friendly before the surgery? She was a full grown adult as was Buddy when they got declawed. But... as I've stated, I didn't know them before.
post #69 of 81
MyRage, I understand exactly what you are saying AND in many cases the owners do an automatic declaw with not even agonizing over it for a second. I was not like that. I had previously trained two cats with claws to respect my furniture NO problem!! This cat is different. Soft-paws wouldn't have worked on her. She would have panic attacks (which triggered her asthma) whenever I would clip her nails. She would not hesitate to rip off softpaws.

And is it so wrong to want a wonderful home for a cat AND nice furniture too?? Furniture costs ALOT of money. I am not rich and cannot afford to re-cover or replace what nice pieces I do own. (and please, don't tell me I shouldn't own cats then!! My home is a GREAT home for cats and it is better than having them sit in a tiny steel cage waiting months to be adopted or euthanized)

I know that If I hadn't de-clawed Autumn and had never adopted her in the first place, she would have wound up an outdoor cat or had her claws removed by some other much less patient person than myself. If she lived in a more stressful environment without her claws who knows what kind of hell she would be living in. As it is she has a VERY low stress life here.

The most that has come of her not having her claws is she ocassionally looks puzzled when she goes to "scratch". She will learn (like my other two cats, who were de-clawed by their previous owners) to use objects to stretch her muscles. My oldest cat Blondie, will use her toes and grip uneven wood surfaces (door moldings and such) to get some resistance. In the summer, she puts her toes between the boards on our deck and will pull against the wood that way. She is 12 and is VERY active, agile, and athletic. She races all over the house at night, full speed, up and down the stairs.

It is not an option I was HAPPY about, I just felt I had no other choice!

Autumn was around 2 years-old. My vet said they do de-claws up to cats 10 yrs-old which I think is a little much, but....
post #70 of 81
I think the reason I most dislike declawing is because it furthers the notion of the cat as a 'maintenance-free' pet. Some people avoid dogs because the committment is right there in your face from day one. You have to paper train, leash train, obedience train, walk him, be home to let him out, etc., etc., etc.

Too amny opt for a cat because they require so much less attention on a day-to-day basis. Most litter train without any effort. People feel they can be away from home and just fill up the food dish. The one area where a cat requires effort is in the scratching department. How much easier it is to just whack off the claws. Problem solved.

The primary mission of this site is to educate people that a cat as a pet is not a carefree partnership. That includes the time and patience to train and not just look for a surgical solution to a common species behavior.
post #71 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy-Cat-Lover
I have said this many times before and I will say it again, I think declawing is inhumane and cruel. It leaves your cat maimed, sore, confused and in some cases, it's psychologically damaging. Declawing has so many alternatives and it makes me sick to think that people are too lazy to teach their cats how to use a scratching post! Why adopt a cat if all you care about is keeping your furniture looking nice?

Some people declaw their cats because they scratched their kids, why punish the cat? Kids, if not taught properly, like to pull, pinch, grab, tease and torture their cats. Cats are naturally going to defend themselves, thats the only way they can protect themselves from those situations. Put it this way, if your child scratched you, would you ever consider have their first knuckles hacked off?

What about climbing? Climbing is second nature to cats. If a declawed cat escaped outside, it would be in constant danger. If a predator was after him, he would naturally go to the highest place possible, almost impossible with no claws. How would he defend himself? What if your cat was up high and slipped? A cat with claws would pull itself back up, a declawed cat would fall.

Cats also depend on their claws to hunt, play and groom. Owning a cat means that you can live with the full package. There is no excuse why anyone should declaw their cat for their own convenience...

Declawing leaves your cat crippled and mutilated. Think about putting your self through that torture, and PLEASE do not declaw your cats!
Actually, this is just some of a lot of hype around declawing, which thanks to the Internet contiunes to grow into large snowballs and squash the truth-

First I will go on record as saying I do not believe in declawing period. But declawed cats can and do climb trees, they can and do jump after they get used to the new way to balance. It does not "mutilate" them, it does alter them. It does not cripple them, though there are some when they come into the double digits age-wise that will develop arthritis and or rheumatism. They are sore for days after the surgery, and great care has to be taken to make sure a competent vet did the procedure, the cat is issued a pain patch afterwards and no infection sets in. If the vet is hurried during the procedure or does a bad job, yes indeed, the cat can be crippled.

Psychologically damaging? I'm not sure how you can tell that? Do you prop your kitty on the couch and ask her to explore her deepest feelings about not being able to defend herself? She comes to understand quickly that she is defenseless, so when attacked she will bite. But she will also continue to "scratch" because it is her instinct and she is still marking her territory, this time with scent, and not claw marks.

Again, I agree with the stance of the majority of the members that declawing is unneccessary and more often than not performed for all the wrong reasons. But when improper facts are presented about it, someone should stand up and set the record straight-
post #72 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by hissy
Again, I agree with the stance of the majority of the members that declawing is unneccessary and more often than not performed for all the wrong reasons. But when improper facts are presented about it, someone should stand up and set the record straight-
And I'm glad you did! Well said!
post #73 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by hissy
Again, I agree with the stance of the majority of the members that declawing is unneccessary and more often than not performed for all the wrong reasons. But when improper facts are presented about it, someone should stand up and set the record straight-
Very well said Hissy

Clear and concise (something I don't quite think I've mastered yet )

Very well said.

Spotz
post #74 of 81
Thanks spotz-

Considering in the past that you and I have butted heads on this subject and not quite come to blows, your comments mean a lot. I am doing an article on declawing, using my friend who rescues declawed only cats as a reference point in the article. I am learning that there is a lot of untruths out there about this subject and it can produce near hysteria in some people that are not educated about it.
post #75 of 81
It's definately a tough subject to discuss easily. And there have been too many [IMO] cases where the surgery did indeed have a negative effect on the animal, for a myriad of reasons. Just as is the case with human doctors, there are also veterinarians who will cut corners [pun intended].

As strange, and even unbelievable as it may seem, I used to be almost totally against declawing, for the most part I still am of the mind set that it's rarely necessary and that I would personally avoid having it done at all reasonable costs to any of my cats.

I could argue against declawing with the best of y'all, and infact on another group I'm a member of, I did. Only I took on a veterinarian, and he upped the ante.

He gave me a blanket invite to come visit him at his clinic someday, and let him give me an informal/formal lesson on what is really involved in declawing. After a lot more discussion, I took him up on his offer, when he had a few cats scheduled for declawing. In a nutshell, he showed me what I now believe all vets should do, and as a result I have since changed my vet to this man.

He didn't push declawing as the only choice, nor as even the best option for clawing problems. He was able to debunk quite a few common misconceptions that I had about the procedure [mainly the ones that you mentioned previously]. He was able to demonstrate [without actually harming a kitty that is] how many veterinarians have become accustomed to declawing a cat....liberal application of a set of nail clippers....*shudder*. He explained that it CAN be done with them, but the skill required to use such an inappropriate tool for the job, well lets just say not many vets possess such skill. He talked about only cutting tendons, and why that is generally a very flawed concept (as I have briefly mentioned before). And then he showed me how simple a procedure it can be, and how little a cat has to "suffer" from the procedure. He uses a scalpel, and carefully traces the gap between the claw and the middle segment, he is very meticulous about making sure he removes only the absolute minimum of tissue, but that he still removes any trace of the last segment. That day he did three cats, he went through about 7 scalpel blades. The amount of blood lost from all cats combined, wouldn't even fully color one tip of a q-tip. The cats were up an moving within about 12 hours, and walking around within 16. They were a bit wobbly, but all three of them had eaten, drank, resumed other normal bodily functions, and managed to remove their bandages within 24 hours. They were wandering around the clinic playing with each other, and the toys without any problems. One wandered over to me, and I asked if I could pick him up and look at his paws without hurting him, and the vet just laughed and said give it a shot...afterall, the vet was only a few feet away. The kitten let me look at his paws without any indication of discomfort, they were not obviously swollen, and it was almost impossible to tell that they had been declawed no more than 36 hours prior. I spent the next three days around these kittys, and not once did I ever see or hear any signs of discomfort or disability.

I've since gotten to know the vet much better, and have had the chance to watch/assist with quite a few different procedures, amongst them a good dozen or more declaws [different species of cat, but mostly domestic]. Not once did I see any evidence of negative side effects to these animals. They pretty much all followed the above model.

To this day, I still wish I had a video camera to record this procedure, and to hopefully offer contrasting evidence to debunk some of the misunderstandings.

He has about 30+ domestics, many of which he rescued from clients or as strays, the ones he has indoors are all declawed[except a special case kitty]. They are various ages, anywhere from 3yrs to 15 yrs old, none have any problems related to them being declawed. They all are very playful, very hapy and agile cats. None of them exhibit any of the commonly stated negatives of declawing either. Either it's a statistical anomaly, or there's something to be said about a 'properly' done procedure.

As I suppose is obvious by now , this experience really changed my perspective on the procedure. I still wouldn't have it done to my cats without an absolute necessity, however, I can no longer side with the argument that Declawing is universally cruel on the grounds that it causes long term pain and suffering and disability. I would also still rather see people explore the wide variety of alternatives out there. Yet, at the same time, if an owner has tried alternatives, and just is not having any luck with correcting the behavior, if this procedure makes it so the cat can stay in an otherwise loving home, then I just can't say that declawing should not be an option.

I know there are cases where a declaw was botched, or an animal butchered by a vet cutting corners. But I also know from experience, that there is really no excuse for that to happen with a procedure that is so straight forward as declawing. Neutering/Spaying are more complex surgeries, but S/N surgeries are performed daily without near the amount of associated horror stories.

I can agree with the majority opinion that declawing is broadly unnecessary, because that is also my opinion. What I don't agree with is the statments that declawing is unquestionably cruel, and guaranteed to cause a life of pain and suffering, because this just isn't the truth.

There's a lot of misunderstanding surrounding this procedure, and just as much misinformation. I was offered an experience that few people will ever get, which is one of the reasons I wish I could share it with everyone. Not necessarily to change their opinion on declawing, but just to give everyone a different perspective on what I mean when I say 'proper declaw'.

[Starting to ramble here]

...


Hissy, it seems like your opinion on some aspects of declawing have undergone revision, what have you seen working with your friend who rescues the declawed cats?

Spotz
PS You're welcome Hissy
post #76 of 81
Well sadly, I believe this vet you found, is in the minority, and more of them than not do not use reasonable care while doing the procedure.

I have just been observing, her cats are outside in an enclosure with trees and logs inside the enclosure, they scramble up the trees and jump over the posts with the best of them. She has problem sprayers, some biters, but not every cat in her care are behaviorally damaged. Her home does not smell and the cats can easily come in and out of the place, but she is selling her home soon and moving away from me, so I have to wrap up this assignment soon.

Again I do not believe in it. I think it pushes a cat to a pain level they should never experience- but I will debunk the hysteria around it when I can in an effort to try and keep the facts straight. And if someone lands here in the forums that is considering declawing, I will do all I can to try and save the cat in question from such a procedure.
post #77 of 81
Hissy,

I'm sorry, but I am not trying to give anyone "improper" facts. I am only giving my opinion on the topic. I am going by what I have learned from vets, cat owners and books. I know that lots of stuff on the internet about declawing is false, but I still believe declawing is mutilation, I still believe declawing is crippling, I always will. That is MY opinion. In order to educate people, you have to tell them the possibilities.

And yes, I believe that declawing is psychologically traumatic for any cat to go through. That is my opinion, please do not judge it or correct it.

I am emphasizing that this is MY opinion and should not be used to make anyones decision on declawing. Please, read the facts, talk to your vet and think about it.
post #78 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirque
Not unless I was a Vet myself and could ensure my animals safety. Lets flip the coin a bit. If abortion became illegal worldwide, would you blame women for wanting a choice? God gave us all free will and the right to choose what we do with our lives. Wether or not we make the "right" choice or the "wrong" choice as defined by his law or mans is upto us and noone will ever be able to tell me what I do in my home with my animals is not done out of concern for them, wether or not someone else feels its wrong or misguided or even inhumane or cruel.

Right now I am struggling with the decision to get Buddy declawed in the front, even though it is a vast expense considering I am on disablity. He is a rescue cat and young and we already have a very shy timid cat who does not have claws (KC). Over the years I have seen Elmer chase her down when he was in a foul mood and beat the crud out of her for absoutly no reason other then he was not happy and she happened to be there. Elmer does have claws and has hurt KC in the past, I do not want to see this continue with another generation of cats in this house and I fear for her safety. Nor do I want to see her loose an eye or develop infections from a bad clawing. I know cats will be cats, but if it is possible to lessen the risk to them then to me that seems worth considering 3 days in the vet and a few for recovery. There is also the perhaps selfish fact that I do not want to get clawed to shreds by a "strange new" cat that seems to have a bit of "ole crazy eye" in him at times.

Have I decided yet one way or the other? Nope.. but when I do I will let you know how it turns out for him.
Have you considered that Elmer may resort to biting rather than scratching? Biting can cause even more serious injuries.

I see that you are having a struggle with this and I need to say something very harsh in order try and talk you out of declawing. My cat, Tripod, is missing most of a front leg. If my other cat, Oliver, starts to fight with him, should I have one of Oliver's front legs amputated? Ok - I'm sorry. I know that is taking it past the extreme. I just wanted to illustrate. If you did get Elmer declawed to protect KC, does that mean that every cat you may get in the future will need to be declawed in order to protect the declawed cats?

Again, I am sorry to be so graphic. Its just that it breaks my heart to even think of putting Oliver or Tripod through that.
post #79 of 81
katie,

Most people who turn in cats for behavioral issues scarcely fess up to the real reason why. Usually they say someone is "allergic" they are "moving and can't have the cat." But they very rarely will tell a shelter volunteer that the cat has behavior issues when that cat is declawed.

******************************************************8

But I think it would be true whether the cats has claws or not....many people who leave cats at the shelter don't give the "actual" reason or give reasons that they have "heard" are accepted. Whenever we rescue a declawed cat and it says they have litterbox issues...we have found that 9 times out of 10..the cat does FINE in a different home.

Personally, I would never declaw a cat..and the rescue I volunteer with has a strict "no declaw" policy on any cats with claws. My only concern is how the hysteria regarding declawing spreads inaccuracies that negatively impact already declawed cats. I'd be very interested in sharing literature that was objective and accurate so I'm looking forward to your report Hissy.

Katie
post #80 of 81
As a kid all of our cats were declawed. I never noticed any change in behavior after declawing. If they cat was loving it was still loving. We did have a cat named Daisy who hated everyone but ME and she still felt that way after surgery.
So when I moved out I kept the tradition going in my own home. I worry about telling just about anyone on this site that three of my cats are declawed. I feel that I will be looked down on, told I'm lazy, cruel, mean and that I should'nt own a cat. Some of the comments made here are harsh. It makes a person not want to join or post. Almost as if you might not be welcome. Hissy's comments gave me the courage to post my experiences. That just because I had declawed my first three cats I wasn't a bad person.
In reality, I feel that I was misinformed maybe. The vet never said anything different. We went in for a spay or neuter and declaw. No questions asking if our cats were scratching anything or nothing. Max, Trouble and Simon are declawed. I am responsible for that. I have no trouble behavior wise with them at all.
Now when I started looking for another cat, I went to the internet. I didnt know what I was looking for but I knew I would know when I found it. I found this site first. Started reading all the posts. Loved the site right away. I came across the first thread on declawing before the crash. Went to the shocking websites and the sites that were more informative and gave me other alternatives. For ME, I made the choice to not have another cat declawed. After reading the post on thread I also decided I probably would not be welcome here either. So I didnt join at that time. I was a cat lover but because I had had cats declawed I was a bad person. Not worthy of my cats. I couldn't possibly be at cat lover.
I have since adopted 2 cats Samson and Vanna. I found them on the internet some 7 hours from my home and drove to pick them up 1 year ago next month. They are not declawed. I bought the biggest scratching post/cat tree I could find. Floor to ceiling. From time to time Vanna feels the side of my couch needs some attention. Aside from a strong VANNNNNNNA I dont have problems. They interact very well with the other three and wrestle and fight. Max the King of the house holds his own.
Will I ever declaw a cat? Probably not no. But do I judge others who have cats that are declawed or are thinking of getting them declawed? The answer is no. Each family has to make that choice. I think that by giving good informed information and alternatives and not SHOCK or SCARE tatics or telling someone they shouldn't own a cat is putting people on the defense.
They tend to not listen. Then you haven't saved a cat from being declawed only made the person more determined to do it their way. So many people like ME are misinformed or uneducated about declawing.
Sorry this was so long.
I did finally join and have loved every minute of it.
post #81 of 81
Snosrap, I'm glad you did join.

I don't blame people who are misinformed. I was uneducated. My Trent is declawed because I not only didn't know what was involved, but was also lied to by the vet when I asked. I use my experience with him to educate others. I won't ever declaw a cat again, not now that I know what the surgery is.

Ignorance may not be a criminal defense, but I think it is on this subject. That's why, before even thinking of advocating a ban (which will always get a strong reaction, especially from veterinary groups who don't want the money to disappear), we at www.StrayPetAdvocacy.org decided to promote and "Educate and Wait" idea. Vets need to be honest about what the procedure is, and many times they aren't because being honest means most people wouldn't go through with it! And that's lost revenue to them.

Education will change people's minds. Belittling people won't. I'm glad you educated yourself and that seeing the facts have changed your mind.
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