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Genetics siamese and ebony osh

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Hello, If someone were to breed a male seal point siamese with an ebony oriental short hair, what color would the kittens be? I know that seal is basically black and that is dominant and the siamese points are recessive it would seem to me that all the kittens would be black....right? if anyone has the answer I would love to know. thanks
post #2 of 13
Gaye can probably answer you definatively, but I would say it all depends on what colors are carried by either one. If they are pure seal and pure black, you would get a litter of black kittens carrying color point. But if the osh has any siameses in his background he could be carrying color point so you might get some pointed kittens. The breeder you got your cats from may be able to help you and looking at their pedigrees would help. You could get some interesting kittens if either is both are carrying dilute genes. Becky
post #3 of 13
It would also depend on what recessive these cats are carrying - for example: we already know that the Himalayan (Siamese) gene is recessive, so it would require that the OSH be carrying the recessive as well to make pointed cats ... so unless you know exactly what is in each of these cats pedigrees, my guess is that you would have Ebony OSH's carrying the recessive pointed gene.
post #4 of 13
Thread Starter 
thanks for the information. I actually dont have an ebony yet, my husband wants one but, we're still thinking about it. We were actually having an argument about what the kittens would look like....I guess we were both wrong and right. haha.
post #5 of 13
The best way to get into breeding is to work with an established breeder. That way you have someone there to advise you about genetics, to recommend books, etc and to be there to hold your paw, I mean hand, when you have babies on the way. Becky
post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 
We were lucky enough to find a breeder willing to sell us Toki and she has been helpful so far. But, she lives in another state. And she doesnt have an email address. Her lines are very established though, and there are numerous sites on the internet that have one of her cats as their Tom or Queen. Im in the process of trying to get a lilac point from her but, we have to wait until she has some more. I really want a lilac, he wants an ebony. I just think it would be better to get another siamese and not an osh.
post #7 of 13
My choice would be a cat that is carrying other colors, that way the babies are all different and you get surprises with every litter. Have you gone to any cat shows in your area to see if there is a closer breeder who might be your mentor? I would breed cats if I could. But, its not going to happen. I have four already and don't need any more. Becky
post #8 of 13
Out of curiosity, which registry association does your Siamese belong to?

post #9 of 13
Thread Starter 
He's CFA registered
post #10 of 13
Oh OK, thanks - was just wondering.

Um ... you do know that if you breed him to a colorpoint, the kittens won't be able to be registered with CFA as Siamese, right? I mean, why would you take a perfectly good Siamese and make all of his future ancestors out of that line ineligible to be registered as Siamese ... ?

I hope that maybe you ~will~ more strongly consider getting that lilac point instead ... I have to agree with you that getting another Siamese makes more sense since you already have a breeding male. Get a wonderful, healthy, unrelated breeding female as an outcross and start a new line of beautiful, healthy Siamese. Or, if you really like the colorpoints and want to breed them, then do that.

Maybe I am just getting to be way too purist but ... I just don't see the logic in it when there are already many lines of well-established, healthy colorpoints and not so many lines of CFA-eligible, well-established, healthy Siamese.
post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 
I 100% agree with you. I was talking to my husband last night and he said that he wants an ebony oriental but will just have her spayed. (thank goodness). He just thinks that they are beautiful, and they are. But, I wanted a lilac first!!!! He didnt even want an ebony until we saw one at a cat show. hahaha. But, I am getting a lilac, I told the breeder a few months ago that we wanted one. Now we just have to wait.

Thank you for the information though, I was under the impression that they could be registered just not shown. All that siamese, colorpoint stuff is confusing.

BTW- I visited your site and I looove the art...I will be ordering something soon
post #12 of 13
I agree that the registry stuff is confusing! CFA isn't the most "user-friendly" association out there. In the hopes of making it less confusing, the way it works for me best to understand it is: CFA only accepts the four basic colorpoints (Seal, Chocolate, Lilac, and Blue) as SIAMESE. Anything else is a Colorpoint Shorthair.

Personally, I am really glad to hear you won't be crossing the Ebony with the Siamese. And I LOVE the dilutes.

post #13 of 13
Thread Starter 
Yes I love the dilutes too. thanks for the information and advice.
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