TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › Should RESPONSIBLE people be able to own exotic (wild) cats?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Should RESPONSIBLE people be able to own exotic (wild) cats? - Page 5

post #121 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTLynn
I wonder how the words "animal" and "rights" came to be considered "dirty words" when used together. There are always fringe elements in any philosophically-based social group or institution. Think of politics or religion, for example: there are plenty of radicals and extremists in both. However, we wouldn't abolish, or dismiss either religion or politics because of this fact.
Sliding off topic here....

Regarding abolition of religion/politics we would(and do) abolish harmful actions committed in the name of either religion or politics. If an AR activist burns down a research facility, even if they believe that they are doing the right thing, we still would not tolerate such actions. If a religious activist strapped explosives to themself and bombed a bus full of people, we would not tolerate such actions. While we wouldn't condem a follower of either group for having such beliefs, we would condem them for acting on them in such a fashion.

Animal Rights vs Animal Welfare is a difference of terms and meanings that have been discussed previously on this board. It would be a hijacking of this thread to attempt going into any significant depth on the seeming subtly, but realistically significant differences between the two terms. To summarize briefly:

Animal Rights: To end all human "exploitation" of animals [exploitation is broadly defined]
Animal Welfare: To prevent suffering and cruelty to animals.
Decent comparison at

http://www.sover.net/~lsudlow/ARvsAW.htm
Plenty more to be found on Google at: http://www.google.com/search?q=anima...animal+welfare
Sliding back on topic:

The terms Animal and Rights became an unsavory term when people began using them together to negatively influence the ability of animals to thrive in a captive environment. More specifically, when bans became the method of forcing their beliefs on everyone and when the means of getting the bans enacted involved grossly misrepresenting the truth.

The truth being that animals can and do thrive in a captive environment.

Spotz
PS If anyone wishes to discuss AR vs AW more throughly please start another thread in IMO or PM me and I will start one. [per PM...thread started here]
post #122 of 134
I think as long as the person is responsible (i.e., knows that caring for an exotic pet is work, not getting an exotic on a whim, etc.) he/she can own one, but also, he/she should have enough finances to support the animals.
post #123 of 134
Thread Starter 
Here is another statistic I read. Don't know if it is 100% accurate, but it is just to help get the point across. The sport of auto racing claims an average of 24 lives a year, some of them spectators. This is ALMOST DOUBLE the number of people killed by exotic cats in the last FIFTEEN YEARS! You see, there are many more activities that people do in this world today, that are for more dangerous to the person doing the particular activity and to the public, than the dangers exotic cats pose to the public. Most, if not all, the injuries are inflicted on the owner, not the public. I guess we better start banning auto racing now. Sound stupid, you bet! So is the idea of banning exotic cats.
post #124 of 134
Thread Starter 
A teenager who admitted setting fire to an animal husbandry building at Brigham Young University on behalf of the Animal Liberation Front was sentenced to 2 1/2 years in prison. Just 2 1/2 years in prison???? This jerk sets fire to a building , causes damage to property, risks the life of the public and kills innocent animals in the name of animal rights, while responsible caring exotic cat owners are losing their rights to own their cats and can face stiff penalties for owning such animals. This is an example of the radical animal rights group ALF (Animal Liberation Front) These are the same people who also pressure our law makers into passing ban laws. This MUST stop. My rights WILL NOT be taken away by radical terrorist groups in this country. Before you know it people, YOU TOO will LOSE YOUR RIGHT to keep domestic animals.
post #125 of 134
I am against all bans regarding the keeping of wild cats! I believe that responsible people that have researched the animals (especially their dietary requirements), have the money to pay for the vet bills (and a vet willing to work with your exotic) and have lots of space for them should be allowed. They also must be devoted and have time to spend with the animal. For those of you thinking about getting a wild cat, if you don't research and learn everything there is to know about them, don't get one.

John and Terri,

You are the perfect example of responsible owners!
post #126 of 134
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy-Cat-Lover
John and Terri,

You are the perfect example of responsible owners!
Wow...Thank you very much
post #127 of 134
Thread Starter 
I just wanted to say THANK YOU to everyone who voted "against all bans"
post #128 of 134
Posting in a few, related places to get a bit more coverage.

Today, June 3rd, on ABC's 20/20 there is supposed to be an indepth segment on Animal Related orgs. Focusing on legislation, corruption, and such. If you can, tune in and see a different side of some of these organizations.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/

Spotz
post #129 of 134
I recently visited the Big Cat Rescue in Tampa, FL. Their mission is to rescue exotic cats (bobcats, fishing cats, sand cats (who were used for TARGET PRACTICE in Desert Storm ), ocelots, tigers, etc.) from roadside zoos, furriers, and irresponsible private owners. After listening to the cats' stories, talking with biologists, etc......I am still undecided. I think a ban is pretty useless b/c, of course, people will STILL own these cats. Would I personally ever own a wild cat? No way. IMO, they are not pets. However, there are people (like you John), who are passionate about these cats but, even more importantly, very very well-educated on raising these large animals and the huge committment it takes. If ALL exotic cat owners were like you, we wouldn't have that big of a problem.
My biggest issue with all of this is nature vs. nurture. I've heard different stories: Some say that, if you raise an exotic from kittenhood to adulthood, nurture would win out and they would not pose a violent risk to humans. I have major problems with that. I've had cats since they were babies and know that, if I pet them at the wrong moment, they will do their best to shred up my hand. My point being, if you want to risk that, fine, but I strongly believe that nature will win out and some exotics could make mincemeat out of their owners.
So while I'm still torn on the issue, one thing is definitely sure in my mind: NO ONE with children should have these large cats. IMO, that's child endangerment, plain and simple.
post #130 of 134
One thing I just HATE about the world, is how the whole group is punished for something a few people did. Like in this case, bans are being put on exotic wildlife because some moron thought "Hey I think ill go buy a lion cub. It will be so cool, and I can show it off to my friends" This I think would have to be the biggest pet peeve for me. It is the most unfair, unjust, and annoying thing ever!!! I mean, if someone were to shoot a dog for fun, and the mayor of the town declared: Ok no more owning dogs because it seems like people arent appreciating them" People would go into riots!! Sigh.. society is so backwards sometimes. If only we could just.. weed out the idiots.. and send them to an island somewhere. I think war brings that on too. because we send all our young, smart people to fight in the war, leaving the population a bit more stupid (not saying you are stupid, :P but saying because of less percentage of smartness, dumbness percentages go up) I have a friend who went to be a Washington D.C. page for a semester..... she is such a smart person, and will graduate a year early. What does she want to do with her life? She wants to become a pilot and fly planes in the army. Theres a good chance she might not live, expecially in these times. Its just so sad to see so many ignorant people in the world.. you know?
post #131 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugaimes
I recently visited the Big Cat Rescue in Tampa, FL. Their mission is to rescue exotic cats (bobcats, fishing cats, sand cats (who were used for TARGET PRACTICE in Desert Storm ), ocelots, tigers, etc.) from roadside zoos, furriers, and irresponsible private owners. After listening to the cats' stories, talking with biologists, etc......I am still undecided. I think a ban is pretty useless b/c, of course, people will STILL own these cats. Would I personally ever own a wild cat? No way. IMO, they are not pets. However, there are people (like you John), who are passionate about these cats but, even more importantly, very very well-educated on raising these large animals and the huge committment it takes. If ALL exotic cat owners were like you, we wouldn't have that big of a problem.
My biggest issue with all of this is nature vs. nurture. I've heard different stories: Some say that, if you raise an exotic from kittenhood to adulthood, nurture would win out and they would not pose a violent risk to humans. I have major problems with that. I've had cats since they were babies and know that, if I pet them at the wrong moment, they will do their best to shred up my hand. My point being, if you want to risk that, fine, but I strongly believe that nature will win out and some exotics could make mincemeat out of their owners.
So while I'm still torn on the issue, one thing is definitely sure in my mind: NO ONE with children should have these large cats. IMO, that's child endangerment, plain and simple.
For what it's worth...

Big Cat Rescue [F.K.A. Wild Life on Easy Street] has a somewhat checkered past. Mainly due to their recent betrayal of virtually all responsible owners with many of their drastic policy changes.

Years ago this organization used to promote owning these animals, in fact they were very active breeders for the private sector. However, after the loss of the husband [he went missing many years ago, and there are many theories on where he went]. Anyway, after he went missing, things started to change. The organization shifted stances from supporting private ownership, to absolutely doing everything they can to dissuade people from owning these animals. They have some beautiful animals, and they have some really sad stories for some of them, but to use BCR as an example of what it is to own these animals isn't really all that accurate.

To get an honest perspective you need to meet people that deal with a few of these animals in a truely one on one relationship. People like Amberthe Bobcat [John/Terri]. BCR deals with way too many animals to truely build a bond with their animals, responsible private owners would rarely have so many animals at one time, so it's really a completely different thing.

BCR is one facet of the whole story. In a way, they are an animal shelter/rescue org of the Exotic Cat industry. The only real difference, is that they don't adopt their animals out to good homes like an animal shelter/rescue for common cats would. Most of their animals have a sad past, but in the hands of responsible owners [BCR in this instance] they can and do live a long, happy/healthy life.

Owning these animals is definately not for everyone, heck owning a common domestic cat is a big commitment, also one which isn't for everyone. But just because a few irresponsible people mess up, doesn't mean that the many responsible owners should be punished too.

I slightly disagree with you on the children/exotics don't mix stance. I've known quite a few people that have had these animals with children. Indeed the combination of the two is less than ideal, but with proper precautions there isn't a safety issue. The precaution is simple; keep young kids and larger cats seperate, no exceptions. Handled responsibly it can be a great learning experience for children though. There are many things in life that this theory applies to. Things that to a young child can pose a truely lethal threat, but which to a responsible adult pose more benefits than risks. Driving a car, crossing a street, swimming pools, family pets, etc.

Brief Comparative Example: Power tools and kids don't mix, but having both isn't necessarily bad. You keep the power tools seperate from the kids. As they mature you can teach them about power tools and what they are, and most importantly the level of responsibility that is required to handle them. Eventually, if they are so inclined, they will reach a point that they are both physically and mentally capable/willing to take on the responsibility. Once the kid[young adult?] reaches this level of maturity you can take a more hands on approach to teaching. Always under close supervision, in a safe/controlled environment. Even after a proficiency is attained, kids and power tools should never mix outside of a controlled/supervised environment. But with the experience and knowledge that the kid has learned, once they mature into an adult they will be quite capable of being a responsible power tool owner themselves, perhaps even able to pass the legacy down to their children too.

As with many things in life, there is always the potential for injury [sometimes even serious], but these risks can be substantially reduced by a responsible person. Responsible people learn how to prevent most problems before they ever become a problem, and also know what safety measures they can take to minimize the risk of injury should a problem occur. When driving a car, your best protection is being aware of your surroundings, of how they relate to you and you to them. You know that if it's raining you slow down and space out, to give yourself more time/space to react with for whatever may happen. You know that if you see someone driving erratically, that you should do what you can to to stay away from them. But you still buckle up....just incase. With most exotics, you understand when the animal is stressed or distracted, and you give them more space and time for you to react with. When they are behaving erratically, you try to remove yourself from the situation, unless you the cause and solution to their erraticity. For the larger exotics you don't work alone, and you try to always leave yourself a way out, while making sure that the animal cannot escape. Essentially you are aware of your surroundings, you are aware of the animal, you take necessary precautions, hoping that you won't need to use them but knowing that you have them, just incase.

Both Driving responsibly and Owning responsibly can be very rewarding tasks, the common element....Responsibility.

Suppose I'm starting to ramble here...

Spotz
PS Small bit of triviality...If you replace "power tool" in my example above with "exotic animal" you still have a totally valid example. "gun" works also, as do quite a few other 'potentially dangerous' words.
post #132 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigOrangeMenace
One thing I just HATE about the world, is how the whole group is punished for something a few people did. Like in this case, bans are being put on exotic wildlife because some moron thought "Hey I think ill go buy a lion cub. It will be so cool, and I can show it off to my friends" This I think would have to be the biggest pet peeve for me. It is the most unfair, unjust, and annoying thing ever!!!
...
Its just so sad to see so many ignorant people in the world.. you know?
I know...

There are a lot of intelligent people here at TCS, most of the members I would say. People that care about their animals enough to risk sounding dumb to learn something....that's intelligence, not ignorance. They come to learn, and to teach, to share information and to share stories. Though they may have drastically different cultural beliefs, they may have conflicting opinions on some things, they still have a common element...Cats

Look at this thread for example...the vast majority of the posts are very well thought out, and communicated. The opinions may differ, but in the end we are talking about cats, and what it takes to be a good owner of them. We are talking about how to own exotics in such a fashion that it is mutually beneficial, and we are having intelligent conversation.

We need more TCSers in the world , and less ignorance.


Spotz
post #133 of 134
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Would I personally ever own a wild cat? No way. IMO, they are not pets. However, there are people (like you John), who are passionate about these cats but, even more importantly, very very well-educated on raising these large animals and the huge committment it takes. If ALL exotic cat owners were like you, we wouldn't have that big of a problem.
First I must say thank you for such nice words Yes, you are correct when you say they are not pets, when you compare them to domesticated companion animals. But, when done right with proper responsible care, these cats do form strong bonds with their human companions. (I can still remember my first kiss on the face from a cougar ) This bond can be much stronger than a bond with a domesticated cat. Most exotic cat owners are like me, but as with anything else, there are always those few bad apples out there that make everyone look bad. Of course, the media never helps either. With most exotic cat sanctuaries that are now against private ownership of these animals, they forget where they started out. As a private owner!! As has been pointed out, once a cat enters one of these sanctuaries, most never get another chance at living with a private owner, because they are not adopted out. They are forced to live the rest of their lives in a sanctuary. This is a shame, because there are a lot of responsible people out there who are able to care for these animals and give them that one on one care that they deserve. I must also add, that if more people were responsible with their domestic pets, we wouldn't have such a problem with so many living in shelters. With proper reasonable regulations and education, there is no need to ban such ownership. Most mistakes and accidents happen, because someone was not fully prepared on what they were getting into. For instance. In owning the much larger exotics, like Lions, Tigers and Cougars, you never enter into the cats enclosure without first making sure the cat is locked down in a secure area. The proper enclosure will have a lock down area for the cat, so the care taker can enter into the enclosure without risk of an injuriy. All enclosures must have a double door entry system, that we say, can pass the drop dead test. What we mean by this is. If you were to open the door to your cats enclosure and you would suddenly drop dead, can your cat get out? If the answer is yes, then you must correct the problem. A double door entry sytem does just that. You open the first door and close it behind you before opening the second door. In a more advanced system, the second door would not be able to be opened until the first door is closed. Your enclosue should also have a perimeter fence around it, that is at least 4 feet from the enclosure itself. This serves 2 purposes. First, so no unwanted guests can stick their hands inside the enclosure and second, if for some reason the cat would get out of the enclosure, the perimeter fence will keep the cat secure. These are just a few of the items you must know before owning a large exotic cat. As I have stated before, I wish I could let everyone feel what it is like to be "loved" by one of Gods great creatures. Living your life with an exotic cat is no easy task. It takes a great deal of responsibilty. You must accept these responsibilities for the health and welfare of the animal and for the protection of the public. You must NEVER think, I will just try this once, if it doesn't work out, I can send the cat to a sanctuary You must also have someone who can care for your cat, if you are no longer here in this world to care for it yourself. And you must never forget, that this is a wild animal and not a toy. Hmmmm, now I hope I am not rambling here. I just spent the day, outisde in the sun, at a fund raiser for our friends who have an exotic cat sanctuary (They are not against private ownership). It's called Hope for All Animals, Inc. Their moto is "Education To Prevent Relocation". But, now I am sun burned bad. It was in the low 90's. I am pretty tired from being in the sun all day, so I hope what I just said does make some sense
post #134 of 134
I think there should definitely be regulations in place. Wildlife workers would be the ones to determine what the cat needs, and it would have to be their job to make sure the cats continue getting what they need. I just don't know if it's fair to make that part of a wildlife worker's job simply because some people want wild cats. I don't know.

I think if someone has a wild animal, they should have to have a registered wildlife habitat that meets certain criteria and standards put in place by wildlife experts, that would safely and comfortably be able to contain the animal.

This would make people less likely to get wild animals because they're pretty, and more likely to get the animal because they want to benefit the species and enjoying the company of the animal would simply be a side-effect.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: IMO: In My Opinion
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › Should RESPONSIBLE people be able to own exotic (wild) cats?