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Outrage as famous NY hawk evicted

post #1 of 19
12/10/04 at 1:11am
Thread Starter 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4082491.stm

New Yorkers have expressed outrage after a movie star was evicted from one of New York's swankiest districts and they are demanding his return.
The star in question is a red-tailed hawk known as Pale Male who had nested since 1993 on a Fifth Avenue apartment and was the subject of a documentary.

Officials said his nest on the building's 12th floor ledge violated city health and safety regulations.
...
The lawyer, Aaron Shmulewitz, also said Pale Male and his family had brought "torn and bleeding animal carcasses" to the building's roof and pavement below.

Until recently, the hawks were protected by a federal treaty, which prevented the destruction of nests in migratory bird habitats.

But the US Fish and Wildlife Service - which administers the treaty - last year issued a clarification saying the removal of nests was allowed if it was done during a season when the nests were not being used to hatch or raise offspring.

...
A day after being evicted, the hawk was seen carrying twigs in what some experts said was an attempt to reclaim his home.


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What do you think. On one hand it seems sad yet one has to keep in mind the residents who stay there with regards to the animal carcasses.
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post #2 of 19
12/10/04 at 1:16am
Question : Can you evict someone (human) from their home because they don't dispose of their garbage properly?
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post #3 of 19
12/10/04 at 1:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yayi
Question : Can you evict someone (human) from their home because they don't dispose of their garbage properly?
Well I guess that would depend on whether does the person owns the property. If it is rented then it would be possible. Even so one should still be start an action with regards to nuisance if the garbage is really problematic for interfering with your use and enjoyment of your land.

Anywho, yayi, how are you doing heard about the typhoon and flooding that hit the Philippines recently.
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post #4 of 19
12/10/04 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpy
What do you think. On one hand it seems sad yet one has to keep in mind the residents who stay there with regards to the animal carcasses.
He's a hawk - do the residents expect him to go to McDonald's, and to dispose of the trash afterwards?
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post #5 of 19
12/10/04 at 5:11pm
BTW: I caught this story, on TV. The man resposible for the dispossession of the endangered bird is the husband of newswoman Paula Zahn.
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post #6 of 19
12/11/04 at 10:01am
Garbage was not the only reason, many of the residents were upset that birdwatchers were using telescopes to view Pale Male. Apparently some people also viewed the goings-on in the apartments. Central Park is right across the street, it would be nice if the city set up a new home for Pale Male and his current bride Lola in the park.
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post #7 of 19
12/11/04 at 11:25am
Interesting...I would have thought the residents would appreciate the hawks cutting down on the pigeon population around their building. What's a pigeon corpse or two as compared to mountains of pigeon poop?

As far as people viewing the hawk being able to see into the apartments...isn't that what curtains are for? If they're nervous about being seen by birdwatchers, they might want to think about the possibility of people looking at them from other buildings, too.
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post #8 of 19
12/11/04 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom of Franz
Garbage was not the only reason, many of the residents were upset that birdwatchers were using telescopes to view Pale Male. Apparently some people also viewed the goings-on in the apartments. Central Park is right across the street, it would be nice if the city set up a new home for Pale Male and his current bride Lola in the park.
Okay, I can understand that, but they could put film over the windows that blocks the view from the outside while allowing those inside an unobstructed view (inexpensive), put up sheer curtains to block the view during the day, and drapes to block it at night, install venetian blinds, or something similar. Setting up a new home for the hawks in Central Park would require some kind of tower construction. And tuxedokitties' point about the pigeon poop is a good one.
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post #9 of 19
12/11/04 at 12:59pm
They can ship the hawks to MY house - I HATE pigeons and have a God's plenty of them. Ike and Pearl haven't managed to catch and kill very many of them, lately. We have a nice big park and golf course, just three blocks away and great year-round weather. The hawks would love it here!

There's a red-tail living near my parents' house and they're thrilled that he/she/it catches pigeaons.
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post #10 of 19
12/11/04 at 2:29pm
I love the pigeons...I think they get a bad rap. They are in reality doves...just not as well dressed as their better-dressed cousins!
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post #11 of 19
12/11/04 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom of Franz
I love the pigeons...I think they get a bad rap. They are in reality doves...just not as well dressed as their better-dressed cousins!
I'm fond of them myself - I love their soft "coo" - and get upset when I hear them being referred to as "air rats". Actually, I like rats, too, as long as their numbers are reasonable - they're natural garbage collectors, and very intelligent. However, I've witnessed what a pigeon overpopulation can do to real Gothic cathedrals, and have twice (!) tripped over pigeons while walking through center city Stuttgart. I object to their being poisoned and/or shot, and therefore prefer the "natural predator method" of keeping their population under control. One local town made headlines when it built a pigeon roosting tower, financed in part by donations. The tower has drawn pigeons out of the town's center, and the eggs they lay are replaced by wooden "decoys". That has really helped to preserve the centuries-old buildings, and stopped most people from shooting or poisoning them. The people complaining about the hawks may very well find themselves scraping pigeon droppings from their window sills if the hawks are forced to relocate.
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post #12 of 19
12/12/04 at 3:54pm
Actually, while they will take one if they can, pigeons are not generally the normal prey of red tailed hawks. These BIG hawks normally hunt ground dwelling animials such as squirrels, rabbits, snakes, etc. Smaller hawks and falcons are the ones that would normally prey on other birds.
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post #13 of 19
12/13/04 at 1:44am
Thread Starter 
Well another method for pigeon control could be to eat them. Remember the story (not too sure if it was true) about a restaurant in London catching pigeons in Trafalgar square and serving them? I am not too sure about these wild pigeons, since I am not too sure how clean they are but I guess for those people who like natural and organic food it should be okay. In any event, pigeon taste quite good but not meaty enough.
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post #14 of 19
12/15/04 at 9:18am
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/15/hig....ap/index.html
The hawks will be permitted to return.
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post #15 of 19
12/16/04 at 2:18am
Good to hear he'll be allowed back!! I did hear somewhere that he was keeping a little check on the pigeon population - but when you think about it, carcasses can be cleaned up. Do you really need to make a fuss over it, when all you have to do is don a pair of gloves and shift the carcass? Or hire someone else to do it? Health and safety regulations don't apply to nature. it only applies to those we inflict them upon. it just seems really sad to evict a creature form his own home in the first place - regardless of the fact that it's man-made. It should say something about the construction of the building - don't they only choose the safest place to be? I'd take his presence as a compliment. Still, each to their own. I think he's made a good little stand there
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post #16 of 19
12/17/04 at 8:22pm
This biggest pigeon controllers (in numbers, not size) in New York are Peregrine Falcons. With the availability of nesting sites on the tall buildings these endangered birds actually are flourishing in New York. They are also the fastest of any animals, clocked close to 200 mph in a dive. They swoop in and actually snatch birds right out of the air. In New York their primary food source is pigeons.

New York is also home to a large number of Coopers Hawks, Goshawks (which also prey on squirrels) and other medium sized predatory birds which prey on pigeons. Unfortunately, there have also been a number of instances of poisonings by humans, which can also seriously endanger the prey species.

I've only been directly involved in the rehab of one Red Tailed Hawk, though I've seen quite a few. These are enormous birds and, like all but the more primative raptors, use their talons as their primary weapon. This species is easily capable of doing extensive damage to even a large human. Should you ever encounter an injured raptor it is extremely important not to try to rescue it yourself, but call an experienced (and licensed!) rehabilitator.
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post #17 of 19
12/18/04 at 12:09pm
Interestingly enough, a lot of European cities, e.g., London, are also attempting to encourage Peregrine Falcons to settle there in an attempt to control the pigeon population, so there's a seemingly neverending series of documentaries on falcons in New York.
Having witnessed an eagle carrying off a small dog a few years ago, I definitely have a lot of respect for large raptors.
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post #18 of 19
12/18/04 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by allissa
I hate pigeons. They spread disease. They can carry things that can make humans sick.
Poor hawk was actually doing a community service. I can't beleive they evicted him.
I've heard and read this claim repeatedly, but I can't remember ever coming across any specifics. Obviously, people can get diseases from mammals, insects, etc. - tape worm from foxes, toxoplasmosis from cats, hemorraghic fevers and plague from rodents, malaria from mosquitoes, not to mention all sorts of nasty diseases from ticks, and rabies from most mammals, but what diseases are pigeons carriers of?
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post #19 of 19
12/18/04 at 3:05pm
That article does give one specific example: http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1951.htm, though it doesn't seem to present a dire threat to mankind (although SARS comes to mind in this connection).
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