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Fahrenheit 9/11

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 
Going to see it? I got advance tix to Fri's opening here in the east SF bay area. I will give my opinion later.
post #2 of 47
Absolutely not. I have no desire to see Michael Moore's biased opinion on screen parading as a documentary.
post #3 of 47
Thread Starter 
He makes no secret of his opinion, but if there is truth to it, we should listen....

We were duped into a war that has put us in more danger of terrorism (people in the know say this, our invading Iraq was the perfect Al Qeada recruitment move we could have done) He isn't in charge, the 7 minutes of him staring into space after being told of our country being under attack on 9/11 says it all.

I mean I am sure he is a nice man to have a beer with, but in charge of the most powerful country in the world...I dont' think so.
post #4 of 47
Probably not, but I really enjoy his books, which can be pretty outrageous. He has a real "cult following" here in Germany, so the film will do well. I think the win in Cannes was more a political statement than an evaluation of the film's merits, though. There has to be something to counterbalance "Faux News", etc.. IMO, so let him continue to rail!
post #5 of 47
Then I'm sure you'll enjoy the movie. That's the thing, it will strengthen the views of people who already have that opinion, and those who don't have already dismissed it as bunk.
post #6 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quentin Taratino swears (he was president of the jury at Cannes that picked it) the win was based on film making merits. I don't doubt that, but I am sure it does reflect they jury's beliefs. I think people are having more courage to come out and say Hey this is just wrong what we are doing.
I personally can't take it anymore.
post #7 of 47
Thread Starter 
The recent polls show the majority of Americans think the war was a mistake now, sooo I guess the majority of Americans will like the movie then!

V- Do you LIKE Bush? Can I ask why? I know I won't change your opinion but I do like to hear all points of view, I just don't know what he can done for our country at all. Tax cuts for the rich during a war, a unilateral war, a poorly planned post war, a blank foreign policy, dividing the country more along class lines because of all of this
(poor people fighting the war for us, not compensated enough...) Alienting the rest of the world-provuding more fodder for Al Qeada, I mean we ARE acting arrogantly. Not living up to our ideals-the abuse scandals.
Ugh< i just want someone with foresight and brains, is that asking too much?
post #8 of 47
Originally Posted by valanhb
Then I'm sure you'll enjoy the movie. That's the thing, it will strengthen the views of people who already have that opinion, and those who don't have already dismissed it as bunk.
Right! That's why I think the "net effect" of the movie will be "zero". Ditto Clinton's autobiography. The question is, has U.S. society always been so "polarized" (I'm thinking of the "federation" vs. "confederation" arguments, in particular the Civil War), or has the problem worsened over the past few decades? Is this the result of our "immigrant legacy", i.e., the fact that the vast majority of Americans are the descendants of immigrants who were "daring", meaning had enough problems/disagreements with the societies they were living in that they took the plunge and tried to form a totally new society, or is it more the result of active lobby groups? Some input from people from other "countries of immigrants", like South/Central American countries, NZ, Australia, South Africa, etc. might be enlightening.
I hope I haven't offended any Canadians, etc., here. I have a tendency to regard certain countries (Canada, Austria, Switzerland and northern Belgium as "non-foreign".
post #9 of 47
post #10 of 47
I am totally against it!....Never gave it a second thought
Not seeing it...
post #11 of 47
Thread Starter 
" The question is, has U.S. society always been so "polarized" (I'm thinking of the "federation" vs. "confederation" arguments, in particular the Civil War), or has the problem worsened over the past few decades?"

Excellent question. I know growing up in the 60's it was a much more liberal time, there was a surplus of teachers, people were more idealistic. Things seemed to switch after Carter really blew it and then the whole Reagan revolution (which was mostly smoke and mirrors, but still effective) came about. Now the word liberal is the "L" word. Now you can't admit those ideals or you will appear weak. Also the 70's generation came to age and are more self-centered (I can cut them down cause I am one of them...)

The polarizing may be partly media stuff. And religion may be a big part of it, Clinton had the Evangelican vote, now Bush does. David Brooks wrote a great op ed piece recently about how Kerry need to address that religious base or he may be screwed (only 7 percent polled see him as religious)

But what are the real differences that divide us now? Ok, I am a democrat and I am for gun controls, pro choice (not that I like the idea of abortion but it's poor women who get screwed on this if it's not legal, will still feel they have to and get illegal ones-just a fact, so better to have legal and safe ones...), I do favor some social programs over lower taxes,

I hear most Americans ARE pro choice, whether Dem or Repub, are for some gun controls, do want to be decent and help the poor and less able. So I wonder sometimes if this is all crap about us being so divided? What are we divided about? I mean even NOW, we are in Iraq so I am sure we all are for a good transition even if we didn't believe in going in there in the first place.
post #12 of 47
I have no desire to see this movie at all. Hollywood has always been a microphone for politics, always has been good or bad and trust me, I've seen it both. I do find it interesting that the film is in only 700 theaters. To me, a follower of the industry, that its very nervous about the movie but still wants to show it. I also think the title is a rip off, as does the original author of a classic book whom is also very upset with him and only got an apology a couple of days ago? What crap is that? Again, I have no desire to see this film, along with his other "films" or what he calls the "truth." Any film maker can skew anything to make you believe something especially if it doesn't show the otherside. And oh yeah, I do personally think Michael Moore is an a** especially what he did at the Academy Awards a couple of years ago and his work is c***. But thats just my opinion.
post #13 of 47

I'm sorry, but please tell me what reaction you might have had when you were just informed that your country was under a terrorist attack unlike anything in its recorded history?

The fact that Tarantino gave his seal of approval means zero to me. Name me one Hollywood figure, aside from Schwarzenegger and the late Ronald Reagan, who isn't a die-hard liberal.

I have no desire at all to pay to watch Michael Moore make a political statement out of a tragedy.
post #14 of 47
Thread Starter 
It doesn't matter what *I* would have done after learning the US is under attack, it DOES matter what the President of the United States would do. Do you think Ronald Reagan would just sit there? Or Bush Senior? Senior had an element of class his son lacks.

Artists do tend to be more liberal, but there are plenty of Hollywood folks who are conservative, Bruce Willis, Dennis Miller, I hear Jay Leno is a republican.
post #15 of 47
I wish I could see this movie, but it won't be playing in my town until later on -- we often don't get movies everyone else has until much later. It is playing in a city that is 2 hours away, and I was thinking about driving down to see it, but I don't know when I will have the time!

post #16 of 47
When I said 'you', I was putting you in the place of the President. Remember, you are also sitting in front of a room of 8-year-olds.

Anyway, the 9/11 Commission, a bi-partisan panel, has already debunked the first hour of Moore's film as completely untrue.
post #17 of 47
Thread Starter 
They did? Where is that article?
post #18 of 47
As entertainment....I would view it.

As a Political diatribe...I would dismiss it.

I'm hoping that it takes more than a politically motivated movie to sway an election.


Vote your concience.

But Vote.

I'd hate to think I wasted the last 30+ years of my life defending a principle that no one actually understands.

post #19 of 47
If you read the report of the Commission, it says that President Bush had no knowledge of the events of 9/11 prior to their occurance. Fahrenheit 9/11 spends its first hour telling you that he did.
post #20 of 47
Thread Starter 
Wait a minute, the Presiden of the United States hears there is an emergency and sits and reads some 8 year olds a book? I can't dismiss that.
When *I* heard, I immediately started to looking for more information, Iinformed my co-workers, very carefully, but IMMEDIATELY. I discussed at great length whether or not I should close the center where I work. I was in shock but doing something too, and at that time they didn't know where the last plane was, I was even looking up in the sky cause they said it was bound for LA (I like in Northern CA). He continues to blythly last to the press. I'm sorry that is really odd. What is wrong when we accept really out of it behavior during a crisis from the most powerful man in the world?
post #21 of 47
Thread Starter 
Have you *seen* the movie? I don't think it says he *knew* about it, (which I have never thought) I hear it says he ignored the issue of Al Queada, took a ton of vacations in his first year of office and was a spaced out blob when he heard about it. Also discusses the relationship between himself, his Father and the Saudi's. Also talks of the *real* effects of the patriot act, and some other issues that have happened since 9/11.
post #22 of 47
I'm not gonna see it. I never saw any of his works and have no desire to. I don't like Bush as our president and I'm certainly voting against him. However like Heidi I'm not interested in seeing some man's biased opinion on the matter. I have my own opinion already and I don't and won't know what to seperate as truth from fiction with him.
post #23 of 47
Originally Posted by Marge
They did? Where is that article?
USA Today, New York Post, Newsweek, People, Associated Press, for starters. All of these sources directly quote the Commission's report.

Moore tries to claim that the Bush family was connected to the Bin Laden family.

FACT: as a young man, Pres. Bush received $50,000 from James Bath, a financial advisor to a brother of Osama bin Laden. This is a VERY shaky connection. (Remember, bin Laden comes from a family of about 40-50 children).

Moore charges that Saudi royals and members of the bin Laden family were allowed to fly out of the US, when all other flights had been grounded.

FACT: NO Saudi planes left the ground, before air travel officially resumed and none of the Saudis who left had terrorist ties.

Moore asserts that Bush Sr.'s financial interests prompted the invasion of Iraq, citing that he was once an advisor to the Carlylr Group, a private global investment firm. The Carlyle group owned part of a defense contractor that makes US Army vehicles.

FACT: To avoid conflicts of interest, the former president had NO finacial stake in any company that did business with the government.

Rather than depend upon the word of a blatant self-promoter, who exploits tragedies, in order to further his own political agenda, people should read the report, for themselves.
post #24 of 47
Thread Starter 
I believe it is documented that planes carrying member of the bin Laden family did leave the US right after 9/11, no other planes were allowed to leave.

You know, no one is saying Bush knew about 9/11 before hand. We are just questioning (as we should be able to...) his interest in all of this. I am going to actually go SEE the movie and not just say ahead of time what it SAYS without knowing.
post #25 of 47
Marge, given your views, it will say exactly what you want to hear. That's not a slam or anything, that's just fact.

As far as what Bush did or didn't do upon hearing what was happening, it's really easy to say what he should have done in hindsight. When he was informed they didn't know for sure that it was terrorists. Only one plane had hit, they were still finding out if it was an accident or not. What was he supposed to do - panic in front of the kids? Start cussing and ranting? The facts weren't all in yet! So he fulfilled what he was there to do, which was to read a short little story to the children. If he hadn't done that, people would have said he callously walked away from the children and scared them. Regardless, given how critical people are about him anything he would have possibly done would have been wrong.
post #26 of 47
Thread Starter 
Would you please tell me why you support him? I wish I could hear facts along those lines. I mean he may get re-elected and I want to hear something positive.
post #27 of 47
Thread Starter 
You know, whenever someone says "it's not a slam" or "no offense" it is both....

Please state facts!!!! I sincerelly *want* to hear why someone supports him anymore....
post #28 of 47
I support him because he's a man of his word. Because he has the juevos to go after the bad guys because he feels it is the right thing to do, even if it means his popularity rating goes down because of it. Because of his tax cuts (which, by the way, I have gotten benefit from and I am FAR from wealthy!), the economy is recovering from 9/11 and the recession that was starting before 9/11 and plumeted following.

OK, the man is not perfect and I don't support everything he has done in office. I don't like a lot of things about the Patriot Act. I'm not some blind follower, I have my own opinions. I don't like the ban on the stem cell lines, I don't like his stance on gay marriage. He isn't the same kind of leader Reagan was, which was much more than "smoke and mirrors". He ended the Cold War for goodness sake, AND got this country out a financial hellhole. He doesn't have the charisma of Clinton. But given the circumstances of his Presidency, I think he's doing a pretty good job overall.
post #29 of 47
Originally Posted by Marge
You know, whenever someone says "it's not a slam" or "no offense" it is both....

Please state facts!!!! I sincerelly *want* to hear why someone supports him anymore....
I have to assume from that statement that you are incredulous that anyone supports him. Facts are that in the "polls" he is still neck in neck with Kerry (or any Dem who would run against him). So obviously there are still a lot of people who support him.

To be honest, I can't imagine how anyone can see what Michael Moore is preaching as "fact", but that's just my opinion.
post #30 of 47
Marge and Valanhb, please let's stick to the subject of the movie F.9/11...
Personally, I would like to see it. I saw an interview of M. Moore and I had the impression the guy has some problems with paranoia so probably his film may be less accurate about facts. So, I like to check it out myself, thank you very much!
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