Cat Breeding as a Labor of Love

Heya. I just registered.. time to make a first post.

I am also, like a previous poster I noticed, looking to get into breeding cats.

However, I feel some background is required, and I'm feeling rather wordy today, please excuse me.

I have loved animals of all types, especially felines, ever since I was a small girl. I have had the divine pleasure to befriend a variety of cats over the ages, but the one cat who really changed my life and revamped my opinion of cat companions has been my favourite big boy, Velcro.

Velcro was found by my fiance's mother, mewling hungrily in a pile of dirty leaves since he was left abandoned alone in front of the video rental store she worked at. He obviously wasn't feral, and far too young to be away from his mother. Being the avid animal lover I am, when she called me and asked, my beau and I immidiately dropped everything and went out to go try to help.

When we arrived at the store and I saw the little black ball of distressed fur trying to lap milk formula from a straw, I fell in love. We took the kitten home and I became his momma, fretting and trying to figure out what would be best to feed him. The internet is great, as I found out how to make a substitute to last me a day until I could get to the vet. After that, with a syringe, a little bottle, some KMR and lots and lots of lovey hours, my kitten thrived. It made me a very proud kittenmom to watch him grow healthier and his sweet-natured personality has always been charming. I had to deal with worms, shots, check-ups and the bills for that, but managed it all.

Fast forward to now. I've been fostering a fiesty litter of five ever since they were rescued from a very neglective household a couple months ago. Two of them are leaving to a assuredly nice home next week, and although people are interested in the others, I want to try to give a pair away instead of completely seperating the tightly knit group of siblings.

But to the point. Caring for cats is expensive, yes, but affordable with my resources, and the labor to do so is not a chore to me. The cats herd around me as I do my daily business, and even the litterbox isn't that bad when I have the company of creatures with such character.

I have a high desire to aquire a queen or two, raise litters, attend cat shows... basically to try some of the things I've come to admire so much.

Can anyone help with some (probably standard) questions?

Should I get a queen and a male, or just one? How can I find out about stud cats in my area, if I shouldn't own an unnutered male? How can I find a queen with attractive bloodlines? Is there anywhere to find dates of cat shows in my area (Raleigh, North Carolina)? Do I need any sort of permit to breed, or do you have to have a breed a certian number of animals to require it?

Whew. Sorry for such a long-winded introduction post! I guess I feel bookish. THANKS for reading!

Welcome to TCS. I am not a breeder...but I would think it would be a good idea to first attend a few cat shows....that way you can determine exactly which cat breed you are interested in (you didn't mention that in your post). Additionally, it would make sense to see what other breeders are in your state..perhaps you can find a mentor. I'm sure that Ken and some of the other breeders will be on later and give you other advice...but I just thought I'd state some of the things that I had read previously that make sense to do if you are interested in breeding.

Katie

Ashkitten - Welcome - This is a good site and I think you will like it here. Before you breed you may want to check with responsible breeders about their profit and loss. It is my understanding that the people that breed and show cats are doing this for the love of a breed not to make money. If you are doing this to make money you maybe disappointed. If you are breeding for love of a breed then I think you'll be happy.

Yes, there is definitely no money in it... expecially if you are lke me and end up rescuing everything....lol.... I've raised siamese for 14 years, and for a time I had Burmese and tonkinese and himalyans as well, not necessarily at the same time. I ended up with 22 cats at one time, who had free run of my home, most of which were spayed and neutered, because I usually would only let a queen have maybe 2 litters, and only let the studs father a couple of litters, and then had them fixed, because I didn't want them to be baby machines, and I wanted the males to have a lifetime of companionship, not a life in a cage if they ended up spraying, which most un- neutered males eventually do. I wanted to keep them all, lol, and had vet bills well into the thousands every year. The food bills for my cats were higher than for people.
I absolutely loved raising the babies though, so eventually, I stopped breeding cats on purpose, and fostered pregnant momma cats instead. That way I got to enjoy having the babies, the satisfaction of finding them homes, knowing they would be spayed or neutered, and in most cases find good homes for momma cats after babies were weaned as well. Now, a lot of my oldest ladies and gents have passed away, and some of them I placed in friends home after some changes in my own life that did not accomodate so many cats. I have 5 cats right now, 3 siamese and 2 rescues, who I love dearly. I was considering getting into breeding again, but my siamese just don't seem up to the task, so I may just have them fixed and forget it. Fostering may be the way to go for me again, since I really do miss having the babies. On one hand, there really are no breeders of siamese left in my area, and I think that is sad, I love the breed so much, and wish there was someone around to preserve them, but maybe that's just not meant to be me anymore.

I am not a breeder either, but I suggest you really research whichever breed you are interested in, talk to different breeders attend cat shows, read a lot and also maybe enroll in the online genetics course offered by Cornell University to glean more info about what you are getting into.

I know a lot of breeders- none of them are rich. Most do it to better the breed standards or just because they love the breed they deal with-

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/cat/fg01/catcourses.html

I do not know exactly what you need to do in the US, but I can give you some advice anyway. This is what I have done:

I wanted a cat, no intention of breeding (but I have been breeding dogs earlier, and I know myself well enough to see what is coming). So I decided which breed I wanted. Not difficult, I have always been in love with the Norwegian Forest Cat.

Next I surfed the internet for kittens for sale, read various breeders' homepages etc., and found a picture of MY BOY (6 weeks on the photo). I called the owner and we met. It was love at first sight (the kitten, not the owner). We talked and I said I wanted another kitten, a girl, to keep the boy company, but I did not want one from the same litter. And I promised to bring the boy to a show (breeders show their litters at shows).

So I searched the internet again, and found my girl. Same procedure, but now I also admitted that I might very well start breeding myself.

And you know, there is a funny thing with breeders, they love to talk about their cats, the bloodlines, the bone structure and coat quality - endlessly if you let them. And when they understand that you are really interested, there is not end to what they will do to help you.

But you must also read, read, read and go to shows, listen and learn. It is not an of/off thing, it takes time - a lot of time (and money).

Always remember that established breedes also have different opinions, nothing is black and white. Keep your integrity, and ask questions, listen to what they say and then make up your own mind.

Join a cat club - gives you lots of free information. Discuss with other new breeders to be, they may have learned something you have not.

After six months I still have a hard time figuring out the acronyms they use for show results, and that is the easy part! Then there is genetics, heat, mating, pregnancy, birth, kittens, illnesses, shots, you name it.

Did I scare you? Hope not, because it really is a great hobby, if you have the time, the energy, the money, the patience, the interest, the eye for waht is good and what is bad, the love for cats and ......

Welcome! And what a GREAT first post it is!!!

*smile* My Dad used to have a word for people like you & I - "pleonastic". Next time you find yourself thumbing through Webster's, take a gander. All kidding aside, sometimes you just have to write epic novels ... other times you can get by with a simple sentence or two.

Having the resources is a good first step and of course, the ability as well as the comittment to the labor is also a requirement. There are daily chores, weekly chores, bi-weekly chores, monthly chores ... and let us not forget that we must journal absolutely EVERYTHING. I declare I probably spend more on notebooks and writing utensils than anything else! Well, that IS stretching the truth, but I seem to write an awful lot when it pertains to the cats.

While I AM quite happy to see your interest I am also somewhat curious about why you find these things admirable ... what I mean to say is this - breeders are not horribly well-respected among certain circles. There is a whole big poo-pot of people who would love nothing more than to see us go over the side of a cliff in a burning vehicle at an alarming rate of velocity, even if good manners and common courtesy demand they keep up gracious appearances. And you can bet your sweet bippy that there are more than just a few who have absolutely NO problem at all telling us exactly where that cliff is located and at just what time of day we should go careening over it fully ignited so they could adjust their busy schedules to come watch with great glee.

First and foremost, as others here have already advised, you will have to decide upon a breed. Once you have chosen your breed, you will then have to learn everything there is to know about it with an emphasis on which bloodlines seem to carry which health problems and then avoid those, then you must decide upon which registry association you would like to participate with. For instance, I like the old-style Siamese cats. I also like the CFA. So, after owning (and researching) the Siamese of yesteryear for a really long time (all my life nearly), I had to then find breeders who were 1) breeding old, uncommon, healthy and long-lived bloodlines either already registered with the CFA or who were eligible for registry with them, 2) establish a contact with those breeders, 3) gain those breeders' trust in order to acquire a cat of breeding quality and 4) work out an equitable agreement as to our sales contract. It took me nearly three years to accomplish those 4 steps.

I can share my experience ...

Once I found the bloodlines I wanted to work with - and yes, I kissed a LOT of frogs first - I acquired my male, a simply gorgeous Old-Style Blue Point that my husband named Tonka. I was able to trace his pedigree back to 1907 and knew that he came from a ~very~ long line of strapping-big, healthy cats who lived well into the late teens and early twenties in age. He came to be with us in mid-October of last year. He is a momma's boy and quite the mush-bucket, which is typical of "studly" boys and their mommas.

Then, in early November of last year, my little girl came home with us ... we call her Lexus (yes, my husband named her and yes, he likes Japanese vehicles) and she is a dainty, prissy little Old-Style Seal Point with the goofiest facial expressions. She leaves absolutely NO doubt in anyone's mind how she feels about things. *grin* She is "Daddy's girl" through and through. She can be all over me, very affectionate and purring up a storm but let my husband walk through the door and suddenly I am nothing more than a very large bowl of chopped liver. I chased her pedigree back to the "Unknown Malaysian Import" in 1893 and found many very old, very healthy, very well-respected cattery-names behind her.

About a month or so ago over a long weekend where I had out-of-town company staying over, Tonka, who had NOT previously been confined to any one area or room of the house, went on what can only be described as a spraying RAMPAGE. He hosed this house down at every window and door at least once and most often, twice or three times before I could catch him. It nearly broke my heart, but I could see no other recourse and so it went that Tonka began to live in a stud cage. It is a large cage, tall enough for him to jump and to stretch, but he had, up until that point, been my little boolie-boy, sleeping with me every night and it pained me greatly to confine him in such a manner. But such is life for a working stud cat ... it is not what anyone would call a terribly happy life. I do let him out for a while every morning and again every evening so he can run and play with his "feavers" (a feather-wand I purchased for him at PetsMart) and for kisses, bellyrubs and Pounce Treats, which he adores.

About this time last month, my little Lexus Lima Bean had her first little kitten heat. (Now we know why Tonka hosed the house *dugh*) I noticed she was restless, a little off her normal feeding habits, and a LOT more affectionate than normal. This behavior went on for about a week or so, then all of a sudden, Katy bar the door, Lexus began howling, dashing out the kitchen door (she never went far and I always was able to catch her - normally as soon as she got to the porch deck she would just fall over on her side and start rolling around), and doing what my husband calls "pitty-patting" - the butt up in the air and flagging her tail around. This lasted for about 4 or 5 days.

During these times with Tonka (before his cage arrived) and with Lexus, I got nearly NO sleep and was constantly running around cleaning up after Tonka and trying to distract Lexus with a favored toy. I shudder to think of breeders with more than two cats ... how in the world do they DO it???

That brings us up to current ... Lexus will not be bred until she is just a little older and hopefully, a lot more mature. She is still quite kittenish and while I am certain she will be a good mother when the time comes, that time isn't just now.

I cannot give you suggestions as to shows in your area - that is going to depend upon which registry associations do shows in your area - but you can check out the CFA's web site at http://www.cfainc.org to see a listing of their shows. As for permits or other ordinances, you might check with your local Animal Control officer.

Hope this helps - and for what it is worth, I AM sorry it was so long - but ... sometimes you just gotta write an epic novel and sometimes you can get away with a simple sentence or two. *grin*

Best of luck,

Gaye Flagg
Old-Style Siamese Cattery
Ashland, Virginia

Hey Gaye....GREAT to see another Virginian on this site. I was really impressed with your story...and no..I'm not one of those people who wants you to drive off a cliff. My only request from any breeder is to spay/neuter "pet quality" kittens (so we don't add to the numbers of pet quality) and please have the person bring their siamese back to you if they cannot take care of it any longer. I certainly hope that isn't asking too much...I am just committed to keeping as many kittens/cats out of shelter system as possible.

Katie

I am not too far from you, Katie ... just a short drive on I-95. Actually, I come up that way sometimes in my "real" job. Maybe we can meet up somewhere and do coffee sometime?

My cattery vet is currently getting up to snuff on early spay/neuter (I live in a small, rural community and most vets here are large animal vets not familiar with all the newest techniques) and hopefully, by the time my kittens are ready to go to their new homes (no younger than 12 weeks), my vet will be able to alter them BEFORE they go. Alternatively, there will be a spay/neuter agreement in my sales agreement. I do not plan to sell breeding cats - however, there are a VERY few, VERY select, long-time, well established breeders with whom I ~may~ do an exchange. I haven't decided yet. We shall have to wait and see what the future holds in that area.

Because I firmly believe that I am ultimately responsible for each and every life I cause to be brought into this world, if ever a kitten of my breeding is unable to stay with their people, they are welcome back into my heart and home to either stay until death do us part or another suitable home can be had for them, whichever comes first. This is also a part of my sales agreement. Additionally, I am looking into the legality of microchipping with MY info instead of the kitten buyer's in order to make absolutely certain none of my kittens ends up in a shelter somewhere. If, for whatever reason, that does happen, then I will be notified and can make arrangements to fetch the cat back here to my home. And unless the kitten buyer can provide a damn good reason why the cat ended up at the shelter and assure me beyond any reasonable doubt that it will never end up there again, they won't be getting the cat back.

I sincerely appreciate your concerns but please ... allow me to ease your mind. I am a responsible, ethical breed-preservationist of Old-Style Siamese cats. I have shared my home with Siamese cats for nearly all of my 45 years. I have studied and researched the breed for 23 years in the hopes of one day breeding them. I have three long-time, experienced breeder-mentors who have seen it all and who have helped me to plan for just about anything. But what all that doesn't tell you is that my cats are just as loved as the one human child I had (and if you don't believe me, simply ask my now-19-year-old son who was horribly resentful of the time/attention I lavished on the cats while he was growing up) ... and as with a human child, I will tolerate absolutely NO monkey business where my cats are concerned. Either the kitten buyer plays by ~my~ rules or they won't be getting one of my cats. It is as simple as that.

Thanks for your input,

Gaye Flagg
Old Style Siamese Cattery
Ashland, Virginia

Gaye
You sound like an extremely responsible breeder. Since you have been breeding for some time Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m interested in your views on if and how the breeder attitudes have changed toward rescue.
Do you feel more breeders are also involved in breed rescue?
Do you feel rescuers are taken more seriously?
Are more breeders spaying/neutering pet quality animals?
How can improve the relationship between breeders and rescuers?

Fern

O don't know what to say. Most of the things I wanted to say has already been mentioned

One thing you should think about is to let it take some time. You won't learn the breed over one night, you won't learn all the different bloodlines overnight. It all takes time and you should let it take some time. It took me two years from deciding to breed 'til I actuarally started.

Visit cat show, talk to the breeders, read EVERYTHING you can find about the particular breed and breeding, genetics, diseases etc.

And be prepared... the first cat you buy might not be suitable for breeding even if the breeder you buy it from says so. Diseases can show up later on or the cat might not develop in a satisfying way (exterior) and if you're really unlucky you get the perfect breeding queen/male but she(he turns out to be infertile.

About what sex you should choose, that depends on how many cats you're planning to start up with. I've decided to take it real slow so I only have to breeding queens (hopefully two, one is still a bit to young). If you have intentions to start up fast and buy a few cats from the beginning it doesn't really matter, but I usually advise people to start off with a female. And most breeders I know start off with one female, then two females and when they have two females they get a male.

Originally Posted by FeralWhisperer

Gaye
You sound like an extremely responsible breeder. Since you have been breeding for some time Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m interested in your views on if and how the breeder attitudes have changed toward rescue.
Do you feel more breeders are also involved in breed rescue?
Do you feel rescuers are taken more seriously?
Are more breeders spaying/neutering pet quality animals?
How can improve the relationship between breeders and rescuers?

Fern

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Thanks for the kind words, Fern ... while you couldn't possibly know this, at present, your compliments have made my entire year! Long story ... won't bore you with the details. Just know that you brought a huge smile to my otherwise very sad face today.

I do think more breeders ARE involved with their chosen breed rescue than used to be the case. In fact, there is a sort of motto among many that I know - "If you don't rescue, don't breed". It makes sense and is, of course, the only responsible thing to do.

As for being taken more seriously ... hrmmmmm. I am not entirely certain I understand the context of your question but here goes with what I think ...

I think it depends upon the individual. There are some pretty rabid rescue folks out there who MUST be taken seriously due to the level of damage they can and sometimes DO cause the breeder. I know of a particular instance where a very well-respected long-time breeder who, some years back, was having serious health issues (her own, not the cats). She called upon a group of what she thought were her close friends to come in and assist her with the day-to-day tasks she was having trouble taking care of by herself. It so happened that the cattery was experiencing a little URI at the time and most of the cats were snotty when they came. This happens. It is not something we WANT to happen, but sometimes, no matter how strong a grip you have on things, germs get in and cats go off a little snotty. They were all on antibiotics (one of the things this breeder needed assistance with) and were in the process of getting well. It also happened that one of this breeder's pets (not a part of her breeding program) had been experiencing an allergic reaction to some then-unknown baddie in the house and had lost great tufts of his fur - not a pretty sight. One of these people - someone who had recently become involved with rescue - took it upon herself to go to the car and call Animal Control from her cell phone. Needless to say, AC came in, took a look-see around the place and apologized for barging into this breeder's home. But - a report was filed none the less. No animals removed, no citations or violations, but still - a report is on record. It isn't a good thing when some rescue people take such action - seemingly from a well-intentioned place, but the resulting damage they cause can sometimes never be repaired. It undermines the trust relationship that MUST exist between breeders and rescue. If such things continue to happen, then the answer to your question will be a resounding no - rescue people will not be trusted by breeders nor will they ever again take them seriously. This is, of course not to say that there aren't situations where AC is needed - an intervention on the part of a collector, let's say - but someone who called upon friends for help KNEW she needed assistance but was met with an AC officer instead. Not good at all.

I wish I could say that more breeders were spaying or neutering pet quality kittens, but until early spay/neuter becomes more the rule instead of the exception, then my answer would again have to be no. However, most, if not ALL the breeders I know and have personal experience with do include a spay/neuter contract in their sales agreement. I could go on and on about this, however, I am not certain this is the proper place to do it. There are enforcement issues and while the spay/neuter contracts DO keep the honest people honest, it doesn't even begin to address those who would be dishonest and breed the animal anyway.

The first thought that came to my mind regarding how to improve the relationship between breeders and rescue was this: Stop thinking that ALL breeders are bad and that we are purposely adding to the pet overpopulation problem. That would go miles towards meeting us halfway. *grin* But of course, I could also blather on and on about this too - perhaps another thread at a later date so as not to hijack this one.

As always, I am happy to address my thoughts here publicly or in private email.

Thank you sincerely for some well-thought-out questions and even more importantly, thanks for the opportunity to address them.

Yours from the heart,

Gaye Flagg
Old Style Siamese Cattery
Ashland, Virginia

Youâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]re welcome Gaye I am true glad that by being civil and polite I could have such a positive effect.

Originally Posted by gayef

there is a sort of motto among many that I know - "If you don't rescue, don't breed". It makes sense and is, of course, the only responsible thing to do.

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This is wonderful to hear.

Originally Posted by gayef

As for being taken more seriously ... hrmmmmm. I am not entirely certain I understand the context of your question but here goes with what I think ...

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I have had limited dealing with breeders. The feeling Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ve gotten from them is rescue cat, rescuer and the work we do is secondary to the important work of breeding. Breeders are molding the future of what a cat breed becomes. Rescuers are only working with secondary cats.

Originally Posted by gayef

It so happened that the cattery was experiencing a little URI at the time and most of the cats were snotty when they came.

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I know far to much about URI it seems every kitten I get to foster has URI. It is good to know pure breed cats get sick also. One reason people buy over adopting is they feel pure breeds have no health problems.

Originally Posted by gayef

One of these people - someone who had recently become involved with rescue - took it upon herself to go to the car and call Animal Control from her cell phone. . . . . . . . .

If such things continue to happen, then the answer to your question will be a resounding no - rescue people will not be trusted by breeders nor will they ever again take them seriously.

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Whenever there are two conflicting points of view there will be some extreme people. As a rescuer I understand the difference between the responsible breeder, the BYB and the kitten mill. I believe we need to work together to solve the cat over population problem. Please donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t allow an extremist to change the good work you are doing.

Thank you for your well thought out answers.
Fern