FIP, When should i put my kitty to sleep?

No change in Kegan. Still eating and drinking water, sleeping all the time. Doesn't seems to be in any pain, been so hoping the fluid in the stomach would disappear, it hasn't and the poor guy seems to have difficulty just getting around it's so big. Called the vet, and there's nothing they can do for that. Removing the fluid can cause an awful infection. Still waiting for the results.

I'm having problems bring closure about Taffy. Now i'm feeling really guilty, what if that mass in her intestines WAS a hairball, I never found any hairballs in the house. Why didn't i take her in sooner to the vet, why didn't I suggest to my original vet when I took her in the beginning of april, when she stopped eating for awhile, to do an x-ray? She just looked at her and said, well she's eating the a/d, she's fine. I know i should let this go, but i can't. Her white bloodcount last week was really low, vet said her immune system was shot. Could a hairball blockage in the intestines cause that. I so wish I could know if it had been cancer that brought this all on. I wouldn't have all these feelings, what if i had done . . . I feel that perhaps she could still be with us .

Hopper- the what-ifs will kill you inside. Don't let that happen. It is part of the grief process, so accept it and try to move past.

Hopper,

I know how the guilt can eat at you, but you really do have to stop and let it go or it'll consume you. No amount of guilt will change what happened to Taffy and punishing yourself won't change it, either. Punishing yourself will only make you worse and the worse off you are, the less able you'll be to care for Kegan in his time of need.

Whether it was cancer or a hairball or a bolt of lightening, it was nonetheless Taffy's time to go home. Rest assured that though she misses you and loves you for all you DID do for her, she is happier and more comfortable now than she ever was before. She suffered on earth...perhaps more than her share...but she is not suffering anymore.

You did the right thing, Hopper. You didn't take her in before because you were trying so hard to be a good mommy to Kegan and it would NEVER have occured to you that BOTH of them were ill, right?

I know it doesn't seem fair...God, how I know! But she is happy now. You're not being punished for anything, I promise you! Perhaps you are being prepared for something, instead. Who knows what lies ahead for you? It could be something wonderful! I, too, have suffered some terrible tragedies and thought, "Why me? Am I being punished? What could I have done differently? If only..." But as the years have passed I've realized that the things that made me suffer the greatest have made me the strongest and prepared me the most for what lie ahead. It may be clichè, but it is so true, too.

Something to always keep in mind...

from The Prophet, by Kahlil Gibran

Then a woman said, Speak to us of Joy and Sorrow.

And he answered:

Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.

And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.

And how else can it be?

The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.

Is not the cup that holds your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven?

And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the very wood that was hollowed with knives?

When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy.

When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight.

Some of you say, "Joy is greater than sorrow," and others say, "Nay, sorrow is the greater."

But I say unto you, they are inseparable.

Together they come, and when one sits alone with you at your board, remember that the other is asleep upon your bed.

Verily you are suspended like scales between your sorrow and your joy.

Only when you are empty are you at standstill and balanced.

Such a beautiful verse. Kegan is still eating. However, tonight I can up to my office, and I found a pile of diarhea. He's been using his litter box up to this point. Why did he do this?? I don't want to read to much into this, like why are you not doing something about this? He's been with us tonight in the family room, sleeping on the chair, but why would he "poop" in my office. This can't be a good sign, and so it all continues.

Had some real sad moments today. Went out, for a drive in the country with a friend, first time i've been out. Came home and the grief just overcame me again, thinking about my sweet girl Taffy. I am generally such an "up" person, nothing has any joy in it right now. Still waiting for the results from Kegan's tummy, Husband and I both agreed regardless what it says, as long as he's eating and doesn't seem to be suffering, we are going to wait. But WHY did he go potty outside of his litter box. (I clean it out 2-3 times and day and he has a second one as well)

Oh god, just found another pile in another corner of the room.

Don't panic, Hopper. Sometimes with the runs you don't have time to get to the potty, you know? Hasn't he had the runs before today? He just couldn't make it to the box fast enough, I imagine. It happens Just keep him very hydrated and give him something to make his poo solid. I think I saw Hissy suggest canned pumpkin. You might want to look it up or ask her.

It's ok to be sad. It's natural. Just so you don't let it consume you, ok? And we're all here to "talk."

Hopper, I agree with you and your husband's decision. However, I continue to encourage you to get another opinion. This is not disrespectful towards your current vet, it is merely asking someone completely outside of the situation what their diagnosis is. Please seriously consider doing this. You can bring copies of the lab results you've had done (I would suggest omiting anything that automatically points in the general direction of FIP; the whole point is for someone fresh to take a look and come up with an UNAIDED possible diagnosis) so you don't have to worry about the cost of having the same tests ran only a few days later. Please think about doing this. I understand you really like and respect your current vet, but this is not about that. This is about your kitten, and what is really going on inside that swollen tum tum of his. As I mentioned before, when Tank was in the office of the third (and final ) vet that saw him, the vet was suggesting it was either FIP OR a bowel perforation (a small puncture in the wall of the intestine, causing leakage). Your kitten is young and playful...could he possibly have chewed on your broom, or something of the like, and swallowed a hard, pokey piece of something? These are all possibilities, and they must be explored. He's still obviously feeling pretty good; still eating, drinking, and playing. Please consider this for his sake.
I am terribly sorry to hear of Taffy. Please know that your heart and your well being are in my thoughts. It hurts like nothing else, I know, but you cannot doubt yourself or any others involved. Regardless, it was her time, as harsh and painful as that is. She will always be with you. Please try to remember that, and perhaps find comfort in it. I know that I do.

Hopper this is such a hard time for you and my heart goes out to you. I pray that Kegan keeps well enough to be with you for a long while yet. Whatever happens Hopper Taffy is sending such love to you from the bridge.

It's a comfort thinking about the bridge.

This is Kegan's second vet. (and i wish he was playing, hasn't done so in 6 weeks, poor little guy. When he's not under the chair, he just can't keep his beautiful eyes off of me. I think he really thinks i'm his mommy now.

About going potty, he had to walk in a totally different direction to get to our den, which is farther than his litter box. This morning there was diarrhea at the end of the hallway, opposite end of where the litter box is. (this is the 3rd time now this has happened, poor little guy

I'm praying for Kegan Hopper. I am so sorry he is this poorly.

Hopper, I am going to be as direct as I can, without causing you further grief.

Several people have advised you to get a new vet. Even though this is your second vet treating Kegan, it is obvious, at least through your posts, that neither vet has any knowledge or comittment to Kegan's illness. You STILL do not have the lab results back at this point (unacceptable, your vet can call the lab for an updated result, can express the emergence to the lab)....you STILL do not have a confirmation this is FIP (there are various illnesses that can mimic FIP, since the first titer was low/negative, your vet needs to be addressing this with further diagnostics and agressive care)

You live near Houston, there are various specialists in your area, if I were you, I would DEMAND your vet consult with a feline specialist on your behalf and immediately at that. He can fax Kegan's current records and current lab results to the specialist for review, it may only cost you the additional cost of a long-distance phone call:teleconference with the specialist. Valuable time has been wasted here because your vet hasn't taken responsibility to consult a collegue or specialist, which he is ethically bound to do.

Pale yellow abdominal fluid does not always indicate FIP. It could also indicate infection, chylothorax, leaking intestines, heart sac fluid, any number of systemic diseases can produce a colored fluid in the abdomen. Since Kegan's appetite is good, is seemingly active, not vomiting, etc, FIP doesn't fit into this picture at this point. Vomiting, continual crouched position, lethargy, refusal to eat, depression are the most common signs of FIP, combined with unrelentless fever. There are two types of FIP, effusive and non-effusive....effusive targets organs and produces fluid in the abdomen/chest cavity (which gives the pot-bellied appearance), whereas non-effusive targets organs and is tougher to diagnose because symptoms do not often present until end-stage disease.

You didn't say what blood tests were done for Kegan, other than a titer. Were chemistry profiles, CBC ever done, was an ultrasound ever done for Kegan? Were congenital defects ever ruled out? (i.e., liver shunting, bile sludge, heart deformity, hernia, diaphragmatic hernia, other conditions due to congenital defects) If not, it's time to get agressive with further diagnostics to be ruling out some of these conditions. I would also strongly suggest a full feline serology that tests for FELV/FIV/toxoplasmosis, hemobartonella, coombs and other immunological disease and fungal disease. The serology needs to be sent to an outside lab, but your vet should have done this at the very beginning. It can still be done, but time is of the essence.

Since Kegan is now producing diarrhea, you can't afford to wait on this. Unrelentless diarrhea fast leads to dehydration, which in turn leads to organ failure. You need to get him back to the vet for a full exam and possibly fluids to correct his electrolytes. You might also opt for a fecal exam to rule out potential infection, virals or parasites, such as worms, e-coli, salmonella, campylobacter, etc.

Please try to put your emotions to the side until you get Kegan's illness diagnosed specifically....you are hampering his care and treatment by letting your emotions guide you. While it is a tough situation to watch a kitty suffer illness, you must be agressive and start telling your vet your concerns, getting your questions and concerns met on a timely basis. DEMAND further diagnostics, DEMAND your vet to contact the lab for earlier results, and DEMAND to get your concerns met/treatment discussed, your options discussed with you. If your vet isn't doing this for you, it's time to seek a new vet, or demand he speak to a specialist for you. Kegan may be suffering because of these delays....it is unacceptable that in the timeline of events, you still do not have a clearly diagnosed condition. Your vet is telling you one thing, yet it doesn't sound like he is committed to finding the problem and treating it effectively. YOU must be Kegan's voice and get agressive with his care and treatment.

For what it's worth, Hepatic Lipidosis (fatty liver disease), can be effectively treated at the onset of the diagnosis. I'm sorry to hear that Taffy had to endure that.

Lastly, instead of relying on message boards on the net to meet your needs, please, get agressive with your vet and get active in Kegan's diagnosis and treatment. Stay in constant contact with your vet, he is the ONLY one who knows Kegan best, he is the ONLY one who can answer your questions specifically regarding his treatment. See/talk to a specialist ASAP and take it from there............................Traci

You know how often human doctors get things wrong? if it were you and you were told you had a fatal disease, wouldn't you get a 3rd or even 4th opinion? FIP is so hard to diagnose (nigh impossible) and so many things masquerade as FIP that it's necesary to get as many opinions as possible.

It is my suggestion to go to a cat only vet, too.

Sometimes emergency vet clinics offer the best care with comprehensive and thorough tests, quicker diagnosis, specialists on staff. Your kitty having diarrhea needs proper help quick! Don't wait for your current vet to get back to you.

We learned the hard way with our Oscar kitty. We waited too long with an incompetent vet and by the time he was seen by experts, he was too septic, too sick, despite their efforts. We went through the blame and guilt, but bottom line is we did the best we could with what we knew at the time. We won't make that mistake again, but will probably make others, unfortunately.

Tracii, I am NOT relying on message boards for Kegan health, and quite frankly don't appreciate that comment. I have spend close to $1,000.00 on both of my babies, these message boards for me is mostly a way for me to connect with others who lover their kitties as much as I do.

And while I appeciate your taking the time to read my posts and responding, I think your response to the Thread about Dylan and his Fatty liver disease was excellent advice, I think you need to know that all of this started out with a fever that wouldn't go away, 6 weeks now, I'm not medically knowledgable like you are to give the specifics, but his blood work indicated he was fighting something, (and with your vast knowlege you know a virus can't be treated) and he was on a type of penicillin for 10 days, which did not help with the fever or his being lethargic. I had all the blood work run on him that was possible, send out to a lab, 2 weeks after that his stomach filled with fluid, some of that fluid was sent to a lab and they are growing a culture on it.

I just called the vet after reading your e-mail, and am waiting for a reply. In regards to my sweet Taffy, she had an obstruction in her intestines which the vet believes led to the Fatty Liver. And FYI, I had her into another vet the beginning of April to be checked out and unfortunately, the obstruction in her intestines wasn't felt.

I wish i had your expertise. Perhaps Taffy would still be here. Unfortunately, most of us don't know what to suggest our vets should do when we bring our animals in. I hope you focus some of your knowledge to some of these threads i read where the people DON't take their vets even to see one vet, or are performing the incorrect steps in treating their little ones at home.

Hopper,

I am not a regular poster here, I usually only post when asked/invited by Hissy to do so for a complicated case or for added insight. I read your posts thoroughly and responded as thoroughly as I possibly could.

I am not one to beat around the bush. Working in the field of emergency veterinary medicine, it is my nature to be direct and focus strictly on the problem at hand....anything less defeats the purpose. As a tech and a cat-owner, I completely understand from both sides of the fence.

I will again say that the most I can offer at this point is again, to see a new vet. Remember, none of the users on this forum can advise beyond that because we have not seen nor examined, nor assessed, nor evaluated any current lab results...and most importantly, it is unethical to do so, as well as impossible to assume we know what is going on behind the scenes, or to know what might be missing in your posts or the situation as a whole. We don't know every detail your vets have discussed with you. We don't know what comments, actions, etc have transpired between you and your vets. We can ONLY derive from your posts, and hope to provide help from what we gather in your posts. Beyond that, it is exlusively up to you to be working with your vets in getting to the cause, treatment and resolution.

I do understand the frustration. I do understand the costs can be defeating at times. When you ask what you should be asking your vet, it's not so much the asking, as listening to his suggestions, opting for his advisement on further diagnostics, not declining those diagnostics when they may provide an answer to the cause of the illness. Yes, diagnostics are expensive, but necessary in advanced or complicated cases. If you had a child with a specific or advanced illness, you would not hesitate to persue additional diagnostics and know you did everything you could to get to the root of the problem. It is the same with pets. They are depending on us to be their voice, to be proactive in their health, care, treatment.

If you do not understand what your vets are telling you, be open and ask questions and get those questions and concerns met right away. If you are confused or don't speak up, your vet has no idea what you need, want, are confused or frustrated with. An open communication and working relationship with your vet is necessary so that your cat(s) receive the utmost care and support. Without that communication, chaos begins, hard feelings ensue and who suffers really.....your cat.

If you are frustrated with your vet, and if you have a bad feeling or do not feel comfortable with his approach to your cat's well being (including diagnostics), trust those instincts, because more often than not, you will fair better with another vet who understands your concerns and will talk to you and make every committment to get the problem resolved. Again, it can be as simple as getting your kitty's records faxed to a specialist for further review.....this can be done via phone or teleconference by your current vet at a reasonable cost to you. What do you have to lose by doing that. You would have the added benefit of a specialist's experience, knowledge and opinion on effective treatment based on prior experience and potential success. General practitioners (your current vet) are not specialists, and they are ethically obligated to refer you to a vet more knowledgeable at times they are perplexed, unfamiliar with a specific disease process or simply ill-experienced. Based on your posts, I have the impression your vet is hem-hawing the situation, may not be truly committed to this case and for that purpose alone, I strongly suggest a new vet and/or consult with a specialist in feline internal medicine. Consider the timeline here, by this time, your vet should have gotten to the point of a reasonable diagnosis, but instead, you are left without a clue and told various things without explaination. In the meantime, Kegan is at risk.............................Traci

I spoke with the vet yesterday, Kegan does have FIP, diagnosed from the fluid which was taken from his stomach.

No diarrhea last night, and he otherwise is doing well. Still sleeps alot, etc. but other than that is a happy kitty who loves sitting in the big chair in the family room watching tv with us.

Don't know how long he has, perhaps, who knows, a miracle will happen. In the meantime, we are monitoring him and making sure that he does not suffer down the road.

I am going to contact the girl who runs the rescue group and insist that she report the breeder to the authorities. Not sure who she is supposed to report her too, if anyone knows, please let me know. It's important that her facility is shut down, and no more kitties are subjected to this virus.

I am so sorry Hopper that they have diagnosed it as FIP. I was praying that it wasn't. I feel so bad that for you, you have had so much to deal with all at once with Taffy and now with Kegan. Please just know we are here for you anytime that you need to talk. I am going to keep praying for Kegan, I sincerely hope that you do get your miracle. I don't know much about FIP, I don't know if it's possible for a cat to live a long life with it, but I hope Kegan can stay with you as long as possible with no suffering.

Hopper, may I ask what the pathology report actually said/indicated? A pathology report will include comments from the pathologist who performs the testing. Also, if this test was from the fluid, was there also another titer done? If so, what were those results? A titer will usually look like: 1:16 ...4:16 ...etc

If the rescue organization knows the breeder, they or preferrably your vet, can contact the breeder and inform them of a potential FIP diagnosis of one of their kittens. However, this doesn't mean the breeder can be "shut down"...it means the breeder is obligated to test her current sire/queen and kittens and consider removing the infected one(s) from the others. It is not all uncommon for FIP in a cattery (multicat environment, exposure risk), it is a risk all breeders realize they may be faced with one day. What happens from that point on is between the breeder/veterinarian involved and the client who bought the kitten. The breeder may decide to offer to take back the kitten or offer a new kitten who is not FIP+ or may offer to pay for veterinary expenses incurred. But, without a buyer's contract, I doubt much can be done as far as getting the breeder to reimburse you.......................Traci

Hopper I pray that your miracle will happen. Meanwhile enjoy as much as you can with Kegan.

Originally Posted by LDG

I went to the American Association of Feline Practitioners website (www.aafponline.org) and conducted a search to find feline practitioners in Houston. Here are the results: http://www.aafponline.org/find_resul...&Submit=Submit

Again, hope this may help.

Click to expand...

Hopper, I'm so sorry the diagnosis was, in the end, FIP. I know how much you've been though lately, and my heart goes out to you. But personally, I would still get another opinion, and because you are so conscientious and willing to do whatever you need to for your baby, I think the emotional decision about what to do will come much easier if you get the opinion of an experienced expert as opposed to a general practitioner, so to speak. My understanding is that there is no definitive "test" for FIP, you can only rule everything else out. This being the case, I would still recommend you contact a feline internist specialist and get copies of all the pathology reports to that person ASAP. If you decide to do this, just make sure that if Kegan's not eating or drinking that you get him to the vet for subcutaneous fluids until the specialist gets you that second opinion.

Hopper, I am so sorry to hear this news! I agree 100% with LDG....it wouldn't hurt, and then you can feel completely at peace when the time comes that you did absolutely everything in your power for your little guy. Tank had FIP, but his story is much, much different than Kegan's. He stopped eating, then drinking, then began drinking on his own (we gave him subcue fluids at home, but he never did resume eating ), and THEN he developed the fluid in his belly. It came on suddenly and agressively. I can assure you that you will know in your heart when it is time to let him cross. He will let you know. Please do consider still getting a second opinion. As I said, my Tanker saw three different vets. I knew I could not have done anything more for him. FIP is a slippery disease to actually nail down...I realize that you see two of the most common signs of it, but that does not by any means guarantee that this is what your little man is suffering from. Please keep us posted on your decisions.