OK so what foods are toxic to cats?

Since this thread got totally hijacked...

If the synthetic taurine is adequate for good feline health, I'm all for it. And considering that manufacturers of "normal" cat foods have been using the synthetic stuff ever since the late 1980's, when thousands of meat-eating cats died of dilated cardiomyopathy, and it was traced to a deficiency of taurine...I dunno, if that provided the meat-eating cats with sufficient taurine, I don't see why the same stuff can't provide vegan cats with sufficient taurine.

I never argued that felines evolved as carnivores. I'm quite sure they have. But I don't continue something just because it happened in the past, nor do I refrain from doing something just because it only happened after something else that happened in the past. I don't think cats should be dumped onto the street without a care "because people have been doing it for a long time"--they can't survive and be happy and healthy like that. I don't think cats shouldn't live with humans "because once upon a time, cats were free." You know what I'm saying?

I think THOUSANDS of anecdotes is good enough for me. I'm also opposed to animal testing, so I wouldn't want to try stuff like, well, http://www.iamscruelty.com/ (yay for scientifically formulated and proven complete and balanced pet foods). I know other people have different standards, and that a single case of anecdotal evidence is weak, but when there's no opposing evidence and the anecdotal evidence has been consistent in every case I've heard of, and all the animals who were on at-home feeding trials thrived...

I really don't understand the stigma of "synthetics" or "artificials." It's exactly the same thing, except from different sources. I'm totally for organic/nonGMO farming and such--not because it's "natural," but because it's healthier and much less harmful to the environment. If I want wood, for example, it's the same wood whether I get it from a tree in the jungle or the same type of tree that was planted by a human. And I most certainly appreciate human inventions such as gauze pads and ointment.

Originally Posted by vinceneilsgirl

Yes, Angel only regurgitates her cat food. She eats it fast, drinks all of her water, and 10 minutes later throws up water and undigested food. This never happens when she eats table scraps.

As for the vet...well, she said that "nothing can be done" and to "accept it or have Angel put to sleep". Ooooh, oooh she makes me so angry!

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This is just a thought, but is Angel's water bowl located next to, or near, her food bowl? If so, have you tried locating the water bowl in another room? That might prevent her from drinking large quantities of water directly after eating, which just might be the problem. Is she getting canned or dry food? We used to have a dog who regurgitated whenever she ate dry food - she always drank a lot of water afterwards. We then gave her canned food only, and put her water bowl in the bathroom instead of the kitchen, and the problem stopped. We have water bowls spread throughout the house. JC has a Fresh Flow fountain in the kitchen, where he eats, located about 8 feet from his food bowls, plus water bowls in the living room, bathroom and study.

Boy am I glad the arguing cleared up!

VNG - I can't believe your vet told you to accept the problem, or put your kitty to sleep??!?! It sounds like you need to change vets!! We would never say that at the clinic I work at -- there is always something you can try.

Is she losing weight from throwing up her food all the time? Has your vet looked into food allergies?

I agree with whomever said to elevate the food (sometimes a couple of phone books can do the trick) -- you can also buy special holders for the bowls that elevate them. I got mine from drs.foster&smith catalogue. Somtimes if the bowl is elevated, it forces them to take the food one kibble at a time and chew it.

Another thing that works for some people (if the culprit is eating too fast) is getting a food with a large kibble. This way, they can't just grab a whole mouthful with a bunch of air withouit chewing. Nutro and science diet both make foods with large kibble -- though I am not a big fan of science diet, they make the biggest kibble food I have ever seen which is called T/D.

I guess I should have asked if you feed canned food? Sometimes this is more digestable, and they tend to drink less water with it.

Just some ideas. But I will keep thinking on this.

Aqua

I've also found that the large Nutro kibble makes cats eat slower.

Originally Posted by Sol

As for vinceneilsgirl: OK, I get it now;0) I don't serve my "meat eating human friends" anything else but veggie food either.

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Awesome!

Originally Posted by jcat

This is just a thought, but is Angel's water bowl located next to, or near, her food bowl? If so, have you tried locating the water bowl in another room? That might prevent her from drinking large quantities of water directly after eating, which just might be the problem. Is she getting canned or dry food? We used to have a dog who regurgitated whenever she ate dry food - she always drank a lot of water afterwards. We then gave her canned food only, and put her water bowl in the bathroom instead of the kitchen, and the problem stopped. We have water bowls spread throughout the house. JC has a Fresh Flow fountain in the kitchen, where he eats, located about 8 feet from his food bowls, plus water bowls in the living room, bathroom and study.

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Actually, each cat has their own two sided bowl. We put food in one side and water in the other. They all eat dried food. Once in awhile they each get a can of wet food as a treat.

Originally Posted by Aquarius

VNG - I can't believe your vet told you to accept the problem, or put your kitty to sleep??!?! It sounds like you need to change vets!! We would never say that at the clinic I work at -- there is always something you can try.

Is she losing weight from throwing up her food all the time? Has your vet looked into food allergies?

I agree with whomever said to elevate the food (sometimes a couple of phone books can do the trick) -- you can also buy special holders for the bowls that elevate them. I got mine from drs.foster&smith catalogue. Somtimes if the bowl is elevated, it forces them to take the food one kibble at a time and chew it.

Another thing that works for some people (if the culprit is eating too fast) is getting a food with a large kibble. This way, they can't just grab a whole mouthful with a bunch of air withouit chewing. Nutro and science diet both make foods with large kibble -- though I am not a big fan of science diet, they make the biggest kibble food I have ever seen which is called T/D.

I guess I should have asked if you feed canned food? Sometimes this is more digestable, and they tend to drink less water with it.

Just some ideas. But I will keep thinking on this.

Aqua

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1. I know! She makes me mad! She also told me at her first exam that our cat Sagwa, who has blue eyes, was blind because all blue eyed cats are blind or deaf! But Sagwa isn't blind or deaf and when the vet realized she was wrong she covered it by saying; "Well, she will be eventually!" (Ummm...that's not true is it?). She is the cheapest vet in town and that's why we go to her, but I'm thinking she's cheap because she is always making people mad at her and then they start going to a different vet!

2. Angel isn't losing weight but besides vomiting she usually has very soft and smelly poo-poos.

3. We only give canned food once in awhile as a treat.

Cheap is rarely a good quality in a veterinarian.

Or in Dr's for that matter.

On the flip side, the most expensive is not necessarily the best either.

But the reason for cheap being bad is pretty straight forward. If they are charging you less, then they have to be spending less on equipment and drugs. This is definately a very bad thing.

I would suggest a new vet will make a world of difference.

Spotz

Maybe you can look into finding a vet who is AAHA certified in you area (from the sounds of it, your vet probably is not). They have very strict guidlines, and clinics who are members must adhere to certain rules and undergo voluntary inspections by AAHA representatives.

Here is a locator:
http://www.healthypet.com/HP_Findahospital.htm

Aqua

I would agree that you need a new vet. This one sounds quite questionable. If you do switch foods, do it gradually so that the cat doesn't have more vomiting.

I had a constant problem a few years ago with a feral who kept vomiting all the time. I trapped him and took him in for tests and he was fine. I ended up feeding him canned food with a little bit of pumpkin and water added to it- he stopped vomiting after that.

Also when you find a new vet insist on a mouth exam- just to be sure there are no problems with teeth, gum or ulcers of the tongue.

Originally Posted by vinceneilsgirl

...She is the cheapest vet in town and that's why we go to her, but I'm thinking she's cheap because she is always making people mad at her and then they start going to a different vet!

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If at all possible, seek out a new vet, preferably one who's not only trained in conventional veterinary medicine, but also is trained in at least one holistic or alternative treatment. (Or perhaps seek a conventional vet who's willing to at least consult with a holistic vet located elsewhere.)

The AHVMA has a good referral directory: http://www.ahvma.org/referral/index.html

vinceneilsgirl -

Just curious - if Angel can tolerate canned cat food - why not feed that to her everyday? Many people feed their cats only canned food, some even add kibble to it. At least she would be getting the the nutrients, etc., that she needs, even if it's not a premium food.

And I agree, she and all your cats need a new vet. Even if you have to spend more initially, if you get a decent new one you won't have to take your cats for extra visits because they'll hopefully get the proper care the first time. It may cost you less in the long run.

Jill and Candy

I agree with everyone who says to find a decent vet. And no, not all blue-eyed white cats are deaf. Some white cats are BORN deaf. A white cat with blue eyes is only MORE likely to be deaf than a white cat with other eye colors. I was curious about the gene that causes deafness in white cats, so I spent about 2 minutes Googling. Wow, what an informed "vet."

Yes, look for AAHA vets; I'd also prefer ones who are members of AVAR, because to me this can be an indication that they care about the animals themselves. I found my current feline hospital by emailing AVAR for a list of member vets in my area. Also check if they do stuff like declawing, debarking, ear cropping, and tail docking upon owner's request. Phone and say you'd like to look around before you bring the cat if you don't trust them with a checkup; else, just go for a checkup, but still make sure to pay attention. Don't rush there for the first time when you need emergency treatment. Ask questions you may have and see how they reply--are they confident of their answers, can they admit that they don't know everything, are they rude like you're being a bother or glad that you care enough to ask, etc. Of course, the facility should be clean. They should not be afraid of the cat (lol); they should handle the cat gently but effectively. If they recommend treatment, they should tell you what it is; if they don't give further details, tell you about side effects, inform you of the cost, and so on right away, they should be willing to tell you everything if you ask, not hold back. See if they have emergency service, or if not, if they know emergency clinics in the area. If they hospitalize animals, ask if they're monitored 24/7. There are actually places that cut costs by not having anyone watch animals at night! There have been cases of animals dying from neglect when they could have been saved if a competent staff member was there. That's just scratching the surface; there are tons of good articles on finding the right vet for you and your animal(s) everywhere, with plenty of good suggestions that I forget now that I have a good vet Good luck.

Once upon a time, people used to think dry food was good for cats because it prevents dental disease. Soft food can cause more plaque, but you should be brushing it all off anyway so the amount shouldn't matter. In addition, it's been found that cats fed only dry food have insufficient water intake (even if they're not quite at dehydration), and have very high rates urinary tract problems. Go with the canned.

Vincentneils girl, I was wondering if you have ever let your cats outside. If so, after their adventures, what did they bring home? Was it dead mice or uprooted vegetables?

Originally Posted by Weatherlight

Since this thread got totally hijacked...

If the synthetic taurine is adequate for good feline health, I'm all for it. And considering that manufacturers of "normal" cat foods have been using the synthetic stuff ever since the late 1980's, when thousands of meat-eating cats died of dilated cardiomyopathy, and it was traced to a deficiency of taurine...I dunno, if that provided the meat-eating cats with sufficient taurine, I don't see why the same stuff can't provide vegan cats with sufficient taurine.

I never argued that felines evolved as carnivores. I'm quite sure they have. But I don't continue something just because it happened in the past, nor do I refrain from doing something just because it only happened after something else that happened in the past. I don't think cats should be dumped onto the street without a care "because people have been doing it for a long time"--they can't survive and be happy and healthy like that. I don't think cats shouldn't live with humans "because once upon a time, cats were free." You know what I'm saying?

I think THOUSANDS of anecdotes is good enough for me. I'm also opposed to animal testing, so I wouldn't want to try stuff like, well, http://www.iamscruelty.com/ (yay for scientifically formulated and proven complete and balanced pet foods). I know other people have different standards, and that a single case of anecdotal evidence is weak, but when there's no opposing evidence and the anecdotal evidence has been consistent in every case I've heard of, and all the animals who were on at-home feeding trials thrived...

I really don't understand the stigma of "synthetics" or "artificials." It's exactly the same thing, except from different sources. I'm totally for organic/nonGMO farming and such--not because it's "natural," but because it's healthier and much less harmful to the environment. If I want wood, for example, it's the same wood whether I get it from a tree in the jungle or the same type of tree that was planted by a human. And I most certainly appreciate human inventions such as gauze pads and ointment.

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No, not everything that has been is good, far from. But you can't change the fact that the cats physiology is a predators physiology.

And since you mentioned commercial pet food, I don't feed my cats that. I feed my cats a home made diet based on meat and I do not give any taurine supplement, and they're just fine. Never been better actuarally. I don't know of any cat that eats a meat based diet that suffers from taurine deficiency. Commericial pet foods are rarely based on meat, often there's more grains and vegetables than meat therefor they need to add taurine to commersial pet food.

My "problem" with synthetic products is that they are often more harmful to the enviroment. The process of making them is often harmful to the enviroment and often the enviroment can't "deal" with the synthetics when it comes out in the enviroment. Have you ever heard of the problem with synthetic oestrogen and the enviroment? Thatäs just one example of many.

And anyhow, the fact that cats need some nutrional elements that are only found in animal products tp survive points out that they are supposed to eat meat. No matter if ther're are synthetics or not.

Cats can have goat milk. They just can't tolerate cow's milk.

hng2014 said:

Cats can have goat milk. They just can't tolerate cow's milk.

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The thread you are replying to has been dormant for 9 years. Why don't you start a new thread with your concerns?

There are cat foods that are single source or limited ingredients. Cats with sensitive stomachs are supposed to do better on them.

Have you tried probiotics and digestive enzymes?

What was she eating before you got her, and did that make her sick?

I have found that expensive vets may not be that expensive in the long run. If the expensive vet is a good vet, you will end up paying for less tests and office visits because they diagnose correctly and prescribe the correct treatment.

I don't mean to reignite the vegan/carnivore argument, but some of the scraps mentioned very commonly cause a condition called IBD (Irritable Bowel Disease) in which cats vomit a lot. A lot of cats are allergic to soy and carbs. This causes their GI tract to become inflammed. Since this has proven a sensitive subject in this thread, all I'm going to do is suggest you consider the possibility that Angel is sensitive to the table scraps and I won't say more. If you think the possibility is there, you can search this website for more information.