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Should a draft be made?  

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
Ok... part of my fighting the depression is to try to keep myself moving... so I guess I would post this.


I was hearing in Lou Dobbs a few hours ago of the possibility of a draft being instated to be able to provide enough troops for Iraq.

he even placed an online poll, which as of this moment has 1985 votes in favor and 2671 votes

What do you say? You think a draft should be made?

I am against it. First of all, I believe it should be one's decision to fight in a war or be in the army. But I've got another special reason: Being US citizens in US soil, that draft would apply to Puerto Ricans also... and the last thing I like is fellow Puerto Ricans dying in another country's war... and it would apply to me also (If it is still in place by the time I am 18).

Personally, I say this: If there was a draft in the US by the time I go 18... trust me the day that birthday comes, I won't be sitting in US territorry. Call me whatever you like, but I ain't gonna get myself in there.

Not of cowardness, as some of the people who do that have been accused of, but of the idea of serving in a foreign country's army.
post #2 of 29
Will there be a draft?

Not before an escalation in conflict that is barely imaginable at this point. The Army alone has over 1 million professional soldiers, and the U.S. Armed Forces already have the capability to fight a major war with an enemy the size of China or Russia. The enemy in this case is a small band of terrorists and possibly nations that support them; air strikes and small Special-Ops-type operations are the most likely options at this point....CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFORMATION
post #3 of 29
Lou Dobbs, sheesh. Never watched one newscaster that I have so much problems with.

There have been arguments by some that there should be a draft for all whether or not the miltary needs it to instill some discipline into the nation's youth.

And Yoviher, where are you going to run to, unless you become a citizen of another country. With the increase in security in countries, people who overstay are going to be viewed with VERY suspicious eyes.

Or alternatively Yoviher, not too sure if the "Do not ask, do not tell" rule still applies if it does you can claim to be a homosexual and make lurid and suggestive remarks to the recruiting officer (provided if the person is a male)

Besides, have you not heard, the US have successfully tested an unmanned attack bomber. And with Arnie the Terminator already in the government, soon there will be no need for the draft.
post #4 of 29
Victor, surprise, you are not in "another country." If you served in the armed forces of the United States of America, you would not be serving in "a foreign country's army." You would be serving in "your country's army." I wore the uniform of the United States of America for almost 30 years, and some of my most patriotic shipmates were Puerto Ricans.

I said once before, and I will say again, "Grow up, Victor." You are melodramatically teasing your readers. If you want to be a revolutionary say it -- don't hint at it! Be brave! Show some gumption! Bite the bullet or be quiet. I, for one, have had enough of your foolishness. Perhaps there is a cat site in Puerto Rico, where you can find persons sharing your views about the horrid United States of America. Use Google. It might find them.

If I am intemperate it is because you have earned it, so I will not apologize.

Jim
post #5 of 29
I whole hearted agree with James on this. You would not be serving in a "foreign army." Get off of it. You’re in US Territory. One of my guys who I was with in the Air Force was also from PR and he loved what he did. And as for the draft, if it ever happened, and btw, it was brought up during the first war, did it happen? NO. Can it happen, if the need arises, then go right ahead. But if I remember right, it takes a Congress to pass it, if it ever is brought up. If I could get back into the Military, I would, but since my age and physical conditions bar me from doing that.

Get off your high horse and quit your b***hing and moaning about the United States. Your attitude about the United States is to me and a few us, very offensive since we did sign the paperwork and raised our right arms and proudly served our country faithfully. If you’re so sick of it -- MOVE. But oh yeah, your 15, you can’t yet. Hell you can’t do anything about any decisions about the US makes about your island. B***hing and Moaning doesn’t get you anywhere. And no I will not apologize for what I said either, I stand by it.
post #6 of 29
Victor, one of the rules of this forum is to be respectful of others. Your anti-American attitude is very disrespectful and has already upset people on the thread, and if this continues the thread can and will be closed.
post #7 of 29
Well I have to agree with Arg0 and James on this one. I can't believe you can say something like that about the US. Think of all they have given to you and your country. You live on US territory, and enjoy the benefits of it. So you run away in time of war and its not cowardice?? Not only is it cowardly its just down right backstabbing.
If there was a draft, Id be glad to go off to war. In fact if Im accepted to college, I'll be part of the USMC PLC. Sure its only reserves, but they get activated and sent off to war too. Ours in Utah just returned awhile ago.

Later,
Brandon
post #8 of 29
I would say yes, maybe there should be a draft again. Not so much for the Iraq situation, but for the protection against terrorism as a whole. We would have more men and woman to guard our borders, airports, powerpalnts and so on. I am registered for the draft, but I am no longer eligible, I am 42. But, even though I may not like it, that is my duty as an American in time of need. If anyone does not like the rules of this country, then maybe it is time to pack your bags and leave!! I LOVE this country, we are the best around. Yes, it does have it share of problems too, but at least I am free to write this. One nation under God and God bless America
post #9 of 29
By the way, Victor you said "Being US citizens in US soil", so this would NOT be another country's war and how dare you to be disrespectful to to this country. The United States is the BEST place to live and don't you forget it. Besides, I have not heard of anyone talking about the draft starting up, to help in Iraq.
post #10 of 29
I can't believe the anger and disrespect toward Victor. First of all he opened his remarks saying he is trying to get through his depression and people blast him. Maybe if Victor feels that US military is a "foreign army" he has reason to believe this. We are not privy to what goes on in Puerto Rico...HE IS! I did not detect any disrespect from him toward the US gov...just his opinion...something we supposedly value in this country! LOL! Victor is 15 years old, his opinion are growing and changing all the time. To strike out at a child who is down right now is a low blow. Shame on those who did.
post #11 of 29
This is off the topic but how is Amber doing? What is that greenish thing in her mouth in the first picture? She looks like she's posing for a layout in the second pix.
post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpy
Lou Dobbs, sheesh. Never watched one newscaster that I have so much problems with.

There have been arguments by some that there should be a draft for all whether or not the miltary needs it to instill some discipline into the nation's youth.

And Yoviher, where are you going to run to, unless you become a citizen of another country. With the increase in security in countries, people who overstay are going to be viewed with VERY suspicious eyes.

Or alternatively Yoviher, not too sure if the "Do not ask, do not tell" rule still applies if it does you can claim to be a homosexual and make lurid and suggestive remarks to the recruiting officer (provided if the person is a male)
And the remark made to Victor about homosexuality OFFENDS ME PERSONALLY as a gay women. Gay men and women having been serving in the miltary since and probably before Alexander the Great. Yes, Alexander the Great was gay! Is homphobia allowed on this board? And to have the the remark sprinkled with LOLS...is nothing but hateful and ignorant. Yeah what a country!
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom of Franz
Gay men and women having been serving in the miltary since and probably before Alexander the Great. Yes, Alexander the Great was gay! Is homphobia allowed on this board? And to have the the remark sprinkled with LOLS...is nothing but hateful and ignorant. Yeah what a country!
Actually, Alexander was bisexual. He had a wife named Roxane but did prefer the company of men. I have studied him thoroughly and have a few books about him - homosexuality and bisexuality was very common in ancient times.

And as for the homophobia - it offends me as well, my sister is gay, I have a lot of gay friends and that hits too close to home for me - gays fight just as well as non-gays in the military.
post #14 of 29
If Victor is a depressed 15 yr. old he still should not be taking out his anger and hostility on us. Stick to a Puerto Rican anti-American web site and leave us alone.
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwideus
Actually, Alexander was bisexual. He had a wife named Roxane but did prefer the company of men. I have studied him thoroughly and have a few books about him - homosexuality and bisexuality was very common in ancient times.

And as for the homophobia - it offends me as well, my sister is gay, I have a lot of gay friends and that hits too close to home for me - gays fight just as well as non-gays in the military.
Thanks Kwideus!
post #16 of 29
Holy Cow People!

After reading this thread I am having a real hard time understanding the level of anger in so many people's responses to Victor. Geez! I don't see where Victor cut down the USA. Even if he did why isn't he allowed an opinion and why can't you disagree with his opinion in a respectful manner?

Sigh...seeing how grown-ups responded to a teenager's thoughts made me very sad.
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baileysidney11
This is off the topic but how is Amber doing? What is that greenish thing in her mouth in the first picture? She looks like she's posing for a layout in the second pix.
Well, maybe we need a little change here Amber is doing great and still growing. That green thing is one of her favorite toys. It used to be a round puff cat toy ball. Amber loves to pick it up in her mouth and suck on it. She is so cute whn she does this.
As for people being hard on Victor. Well, as a 15 year old, his opinions and ideas are welcome just like everyone elses. But, just because he is 15, does not shield him from the anger if what he says offends someone. It is our right to get angry and express it as long as there is some degree of control and no name calling. I think we are too easy on children today as it is. When I was a child, my mom and dad would never let me get away saying anything disrespectful. My butt would feel the rath of a good swat.
As for the comments about being homosexual, I too think that was a little off, but I don't think it was meant to offend anyone. Lets hope not anyway.
post #18 of 29
Hey Now!! Yohiver is entitled to his opinion! That's one of the beauties of living in America, you can express your opinion! It is one of our fundamental rights. People are certainly allowed to disagree, but don't go on the attack. I also agree with the other poster that I did not think he was trying to offend people.

To answer the question posed, I do not believe that there should be a draft. I agree that it should be my choice. I also believe that this country as a whole would REVOLT if they tried to institute another draft.
post #19 of 29
Please don't fall out with each other. I love you all to pieces. It doesn't matter who or what you are. I love this site, I love the people and as the war, we are all in it together. I am in the UK, our people are fighting side by side, we are brothers and sisters, please bring this site back to the love it has always shown. You are all lovely people on this site. Our kitties would be crying if they knew their mums and dads were fighting. Please put the love back in.
post #20 of 29
Seems to be a common cry....wants the Freedoms of America but not the responsibilities that go along with this "foreign nation" as he put it. Sorry, but I understand how veterans especially are offended, whether or not he meant to offend. Obviously age has nothing to do with the ability to offend people, and Victor has made it clear that he wants to be treated as an adult (since he is participating on an adult majority board).

But I do agree with you, Cheryl. There would be a public outcry, which I honestly think is a shame. I would proudly serve my country in a time of need (read: war), in whatever capacity I could. People in general are, IMO, entirely too selfish with those rights and far too standoffish about those responsibilities and any of those responsibilities that may not personally benefit each individual...
post #21 of 29
This touches on the touchiest of subjects. Patriotism. Especially now that we're embroiled in a conflict and losing people. I'm retired military (very recently), and love of my Country is near and dear to my heart. At the same time, while I may find Victors opinions contrary to my own, I take into account his age as well as the fact that he's going through a tough time right now. I also take into account that his primary language is Spanish, and what he said on here may not be what was actually intended due to translation differences.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this:

1: It's a touchy subject.
2: Victor is expressing an opinion and using his access to freedom of Speech, and while I may not, and do not agree with him, I'd ask him to clarify his thoughts.
3: Slow down and take a deep breath folks. Nothing said here is going to change the course of world events. This is common ground for those of us that happen to love our cats. We might all want to remember that.

God Bless the United States of America and those doing the fighting for her.

Jeff
post #22 of 29
In Manchester the town where I live, there has just been two huge captures of terrorists. They were planning to bomb our local football team and all there fans Manchester United, and also Heathrow Airport in London. Let us not war with each other. Whether people want to be involved with this war or not THEY ARE INVOLVED. We are all in danger whether we fight for our country or not. British men are being killed over there too, because they chose to be with their allies. Let us stick together who are left at home, we should not be warring because if we do we are letting our men and women who are over down. And if we cannot support then who does. USA and UK are together, many European countries too. Please let our site shine through it all.
post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 
Thanks all the ones who sticked to me.

It is true... Those who came up after me in the thread really haven't got the least idea of what I am going through.... when I started to read the posts I went all jittery with palpitations and my hands were trembling. I still feel all anxious and bad.

Please understand that I am fighting an illness that has brought many people to suicide... don't push me. Please. This has been a pure torture. Don't make it worse.

James, Arg0, bumpy: You are at one of the main to blame here. Not another country? Are you questioning my knowledge of what MY country where I live in is? How would you like for me to question your patriotism for your country? What do you know about PR to start with? Do you live here? Are you Puerto Rican?

James, you tell me to grow up. Why don't I say the same? You are the one who seems to love his country, yet is not capable of understanding the nationalism of another country?

My decision to either go to the army or not go or get out of the country like Clinton did is my own personal decision about my own life, which I will make when the time is due. But it is not a decision I will allow anyone to question or intervene in.

And I am not anti american. I am as anti american the americans in this forum are. I like the US, I have studied it history and admire it as a country, I respect it as a country, I like its people (I have many american friends), and I want that an independent PR be based on a similar way of freedoms and values as the US. But I understand that PR and the US are two different countries and that my country is PR and that it needs to be independent. Is that anti american? No.

Sorry, if I have lost my temper, but the lack of respect and foolishness of certain members have earned it, so I cannot apologize.

I am feeling bad again... I am having chest pain again and my hands are trembling again. I need to take a rest from this. But please, cooperate to avoid making it worst.
post #24 of 29
Quote:
I am against it. First of all, I believe it should be one's decision to fight in a war or be in the army.
Have to agree with you there. I am a former spouse of a career military man. He CHOSE to serve our country, and while it was very difficult on him and his family when he was deployed to Afghanistan, he knew this was part of the bargain. However, in times of need, such as happened in WWII, I understand the need for a draft to fulfill the needs of the nation.

Quote:
Being US citizens in US soil, that draft would apply to Puerto Ricans also... and the last thing I like is fellow Puerto Ricans dying in another country's war...
Again, I agree. I, being a long-time Montana resident (even though I've relocated since) hate to see fellow Montanans come up on the "list". By this statement, you have just explained to yourself that you would not be fighting in "a foreign country's war."

Quote:
...and it would apply to me also (If it is still in place by the time I am 18). Personally, I say this: If there was a draft in the US by the time I go 18... trust me the day that birthday comes, I won't be sitting in US territorry. Call me whatever you like, but I ain't gonna get myself in there.
This statement I understand, but I do not agree with. I understand it because you are 15 and not quite an adult. It is natural to react this way out of fear of the unknown. This fear is why so many of the volunteer men and women who currently serve cry when saying goodbye to their families, but they go anyway, knowing they are doing good for their country. Perhaps in three years' time you will feel differently. I pray you do, that by then your eyes are opened to the wonderful country you are living in.

As for those of you who initially flamed, I have not read any of Victor's other threads, but I read absolutely nothing Anti-American in this post, other than his mis-information about it being a "foreign country's war". I was 15 not that long ago myself, and I remember how I wanted to be considered "adult" by those around me, and I understand now, many years later, how ignorant I must have sounded in my attempts to fit in. I appreciate most those who did not belittle my thinking but patiently took the time to educate me.

That's about my and that's ALL I'm gonna say.
post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom of Franz
I can't believe the anger and disrespect toward Victor. First of all he opened his remarks saying he is trying to get through his depression and people blast him. Maybe if Victor feels that US military is a "foreign army" he has reason to believe this. We are not privy to what goes on in Puerto Rico...HE IS! I did not detect any disrespect from him toward the US gov...just his opinion...something we supposedly value in this country! LOL! Victor is 15 years old, his opinion are growing and changing all the time. To strike out at a child who is down right now is a low blow. Shame on those who did.
Victor consistently 'disses' the US in his own way, so you may be seeing a reaction that is a cumulative effect. He also does appear to want to be treated as an adult on this forum. I personally enjoy his frequent criticism of the US Constitution as being too short, given that I think most people believe it is the most effective political document ever written, and one which has been able, with an occasional delay, to adapt quite well to changing times and attitudes. Generally I find his commentary to be amusing, although I did take issue with him observing that the baby boomers would have to all be DEAD before gays would be able to marry or something to that effect. With no disrespect to gay, bisexual, transexual or transgendered folks, the black civil rights movement, which the baby boomers of my generation were active in, was a bit more weighty issue than gay marriage, given how many people died in that fight.

And truthfully, while I have not read every single one of Victor's posts, I have read quite a few of them, and this is the first time I've read that he is suffering from depression. I don't think he is being 'picked on' by a group of nasty adults to the degree that you think he is.
post #26 of 29
There should never, ever be a draft ever again. Forcing someone to go fight in a war that they don't believe in is absurd. I am even against the Selective Service program, and fight it ridiculous that if a male doesn't sign up for it they can't get Federal school aid. In fact, I know someone who is now 20 and refuses to register. Thus, he can't even apply for Federal aid...thank God for scholarships.
post #27 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucia
Victor consistently 'disses' the US in his own way,
Lucia, that "dissing" is not dissing.... it is totally unintentional if it is perceived as such. In fact it is now that I have found out it is seen that way. So accept my apologies if I have before offended anyone with that.


Quote:

And truthfully, while I have not read every single one of Victor's posts, I have read quite a few of them, and this is the first time I've read that he is suffering from depression. I don't think he is being 'picked on' by a group of nasty adults to the degree that you think he is.

Check the "Came from the Doctor's office" thread in the Cat Lounge. That's where I say of my being diagnosed.

Look... I started this thread to try to do the therapy of doing something I love (debating), the flaming and accusations and all this has only placed me in a worser situation... and its not a good one... The discussion is about the draft. Not about critizing me about anything bad I may have done before or questioning my beliefs. In a normal situation I may have been able to deal with this easily and laugh them off... but when you are depressed... you simply have problems thinking right.

I am not asking anything impossible or to try to please me, or anything offensive. All I ask of you is to drop that subject, for my health's sake. I am trying to fight an illness, which has been pure torture, please try not to make it harder.
post #28 of 29
Quote:
Look... I started this thread to try to do the therapy of doing something I love (debating), the flaming and accusations and all this has only placed me in a worser situation... and its not a good one... The discussion is about the draft. Not about critizing me about anything bad I may have done before or questioning my beliefs. In a normal situation I may have been able to deal with this easily and laugh them off... but when you are depressed... you simply have problems thinking right.

I am not asking anything impossible or to try to please me, or anything offensive. All I ask of you is to drop that subject, for my health's sake. I am trying to fight an illness, which has been pure torture, please try not to make it harder.
Victor, you started this thread knowing full well that the subject of the draft would get you all worked up. Stop playing mind games and stop looking for sympathy just because you happen to suffer from depression. I am not going to warn you again.
post #29 of 29
Because of difficulties between members, I am now closing this thread.
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