Iams=Bad??

jen · Apr 2, 2004

I just took my & year old cat to the vet because he peed out of the blue on my roomates coat. They asked what I am feeding him and I said Iams. He told me to switch to Eukanuba because they have been finding that recently, the Iams has been badly affecting the cats urinary tract or something on that order. I wish I would have written it down, exactly what he said. If anyone had heard anything about this please let me know. He mentioned something about store bought Iams (as opposed to what?) and the chemicals and particles used in it are bad for the cats. Now he didn't specify if I shouldn't use it because my cat is older and it can affect him differently or what. He knows I have 5 cats and he mentioned nothing about the other ones not being able to eat Iams. So yeah if someone knows anything about this, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

aquarius · Apr 2, 2004

Jen,

In 1998 Iams was bought out by Proctor and Gamble. At that time, they changed their formula, and soon after started being carried in grocery stores (instead of just specialty stores, as it was before). The vet I worked for at the time had been recommending Iams, because at one point, it was a very well regarded cat food. Around 1999, however, we had all started noticing an increase in urinary tract problems in the cats that were eating Iams.

I don't know to what to attribute the problem, but after we noticed the increase in urinary problems, we stopped carrying Iams, and instead recommended Nutro. For whatever reason, it wasn't worth the risk.

Aqua

mzjazz2u · Apr 2, 2004

I haven't heard anything like you were talking about but I'd like to find some more specific info on it. My cats love IAMS and do very well on it. Just a note.... Eukanuba is made by the same company as IAMS and you might want to let your vet know. I found that out on their website.

jen · Apr 2, 2004

They are made by the same company? So what is the difference between the two then? Just curious. How do the prices of Nutro compare to Iams?

I am also wondering why it has had no effect on all my other cats and all the cats we feed at the shelter I work at? A lot of people buy Iams and their cats are fine. Is there something different about Elliot that it is effecting him that way? Maybe his age has something to do with it and over time, the others will develop problems too. I will definately check out Nutro.

Oh I also have a gigantic bag of a cheaper brand of food like Dad's I think, is it ok to mix this in with the better food just to finish it off? Since Elliot is having problems, maybe I shouldn't. Will the lesser quality food be bad for him?

One more question: Is a Urinary Tract infection painful? What happens exactly? Why can't the cat make it to the litter box? Will it kill them if it goes untreated? If it is possible to not know they have it that is. Any good sites about it?
Thanks I appreciate it.

donnageorge · Apr 2, 2004

From what we've read, there's no mention of a change in Iam's formula of cat food or dog food.

But there is mention of a change in their feeding guidelines for dog food. Here's the Iams-related info that we found in "Food Pets Die For":

---
Page 57:
In 1999, one of the largest and most unlikely mergers on record took place when Proctor and Gamble, makers of consumer products such as Tide, Bold, Vicks, and Puffs, purchased Iams for $2.3 billion. A self-educated animal nutritionist, Paul Iams, had founded his company in 1946, and produced Eukanuba, and Iams dry and canned dog and cat food.

Page 58:
In 1999, under new ownership, Iams began updating its feeding guidelines for Eukanuba and Iams dog foods. These guidelines suggested lowering the recommended amount of food to feed dogs each day.
---

For more info about Iams and other commercial pet food, please read "Food Pets Die For" (published 2003; www.newsagepress.com) by Ann N. Martin. It should be available through your local library, and it's available through Amazon too:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

- Donna and George

donnageorge · Apr 2, 2004

Originally posted by Jen
They are made by the same company? So what is the difference between the two then? Just curious. How do the prices of Nutro compare to Iams?

I am also wondering why it has had no effect on all my other cats and all the cats we feed at the shelter I work at? A lot of people buy Iams and their cats are fine. Is there something different about Elliot that it is effecting him that way? Maybe his age has something to do with it and over time, the others will develop problems too. I will definately check out Nutro.

Oh I also have a gigantic bag of a cheaper brand of food like Dad's I think, is it ok to mix this in with the better food just to finish it off? Since Elliot is having problems, maybe I shouldn't. Will the lesser quality food be bad for him?

One more question: Is a Urinary Tract infection painful? What happens exactly? Why can't the cat make it to the litter box? Will it kill them if it goes untreated? If it is possible to not know they have it that is. Any good sites about it?
Thanks I appreciate it.

From current research (particularly from investigative folk like Ann N. Martin) there seems to be no significant nutritional difference between Iams, Eukanuba, and other kibble. In fact, the quality of most commercial dry pet food and canned pet food is mediocre.

Some pets may do adequately on low-quality commercial food, but many others do not. A human analogy could be of a person who eats junk food every day, and yet still lives well into his eighties. But for the rest of us, poor nutrition would eventually be detrimental.

As for urinary tract infection, here's what we found in "Veterinarians' Guide to Natural Remedies for Cats" by Martin Zucker:

---
Page 257:
Urinary tract ailments affect a lot of cats, as many as 10% or more, according to veterinary studies. Trouble develops in the bladder and/or the urethra, the narrow tube that carries urine out of the body, and basically appears in two forms:

1. Infections, generally caused by bacterial, fungal, or parasitic agents.
2. "Stones," comprising minerals, mucus, cellular debris, and other material, in the bladder or urethra...

Although the causes of disease are varied, the signs are usually similar and dramatic - a cat straining and making repeated, prolonged attempts to pass urine. Sometimes only a few drops will spill. An affected cat is usually very uncomfortable and may be in a great deal of pain. See a vet at once if this occurs. Conventional treatment can be very effective in a crisis and is necessary if a urinary obstruction is present.

Other signs may include the following: licking the genital area excessively, urinating outside the litter box, spending a lot of time in the litter box, blood in the urine, lethargy, hardly eating, hunched for hours, breath smelling of urine.
---

Hope this helps,
- Donna and George

goblin · Apr 2, 2004

My cat Clyteamnestra suffers from a chronic urinary tract infection. I have been feeding her Iams almost all her life. I recently moved. (I bought my first home in June 2003. Before that I live at my parents house, which was on a well. The well water had a lot of minerals in it.)

I now have two Petmate Freshflows and most of the time I put in purified water. I am now on County water. This has help a little.

I would like to switch to another high quality cat food, if Iams cause UTI's. Which would be the best? Since I have 29 cats and I feed them all the same thing which would be the best? I live in a small city in the middle of nowhere, (the nowhere is also in the middle of nowhere), so I would have to ask my vet to special order it.

Any information would be helpful.

Goblin

jen · Apr 3, 2004

My cat shows non of those sign other thatn he peed once that i know of outside the litter box. the vet said he might be getting a UTI but just told me to switch foods. He didn't give me any sort of medication. Is there anything I can do to prevent one other then switching his food?

donnageorge · Apr 3, 2004

Originally posted by Goblin
My cat Clyteamnestra suffers from a chronic urinary tract infection. I have been feeding her Iams almost all her life. I recently moved. (I bought my first home in June 2003. Before that I live at my parents house, which was on a well. The well water had a lot of minerals in it.)

I now have two Petmate Freshflows and most of the time I put in purified water. I am now on County water. This has help a little.

I would like to switch to another high quality cat food, if Iams cause UTI's. Which would be the best? Since I have 29 cats and I feed them all the same thing which would be the best? I live in a small city in the middle of nowhere, (the nowhere is also in the middle of nowhere), so I would have to ask my vet to special order it.

Any information would be helpful.

Goblin

29 cats! Wow, that's impressive. We already have our hands full with just two.

Regarding your affected cat Clyteamnestra, the best thing to do is to speak to your vet about her UTI. If possible, seek a vet who is not only trained in conventional veterinary medicine, but who is also trained in at least one of the holistic practices, e.g., acupuncture, flower essences, homeopathy, herbal remedies, etc. You can find a holistic vet by going to www.ahvma.org and clicking on 'Referral Directory'. If there are no holistic vets in your area, you may be able to get a holistic vet in another city to consult over the phone with your local vet (assuming the local vet is willing to consent).

Now looking through Zucker's book, here's what we could find regarding chronic UTIs:

---
page 258:
Holistic vets often recommend acupuncture for chronic UTIs. "Results are excellent," says Joseph Demers, DVM. "It is a very effective option for animals who have been on long-term antibiotics. With a few treatments, along with a good diet, we can achieve total remission in many cases or a significant reduction in the frequency of infections. When infections recur, a single acupuncture treatment generally resolves the problem. It works well also for nonbacterial infections."

Vets find that stress can promote episodes of UT disorders. In one study, a change in weather and a move to a new environment were linked to the onset of urinary tract distress. If you suspect there may be a stress connection, see a vet familiar with flower essences or homeopathy who can recommend the proper remedies for your individual animal.
---

It was also stressed in the book to stop feeding dry food, and instead switch to canned food, or even better, wholesome raw or cooked food. Dry food has a greater concetration of minerals that eventually can cause UTIs, while wet food has more moisture that is necessary for the urinary tract. With raw diets, the raw meat creates a natural and healthy acidic urine level.

Good luck to you and your cat,
- Donna and George

goblin · Apr 3, 2004

Dear donnageorge,

I call it rural, but in reality Kingman, Arizona is isolated. (We don't use that term because it is to close for comfort.) Because I rescue stray and feral cats I need a dry food which I can feed all of them. I work at a Manufactoring Plant, American Woodmark. (5:00 am to about 3:30 to 4:00 PM is normal) I usually put in a 10 hour day, so it is difficult, if not impossible to do seperate feedings. However I do have a good working relationship with my vet. If Iams is causing UTI's I would like to switch to a different High quality dry food? I can special order it through my Vet. Any suggestions?

Goblin

donnageorge · Apr 3, 2004

Originally posted by Jen
My cat shows non of those sign other thatn he peed once that i know of outside the litter box. the vet said he might be getting a UTI but just told me to switch foods. He didn't give me any sort of medication. Is there anything I can do to prevent one other then switching his food?

Getting your cat to drink more water may lower their susceptibility to UTIs.

But if the water in your area is hard (alkaline), that could lead to your cat developing a UTI. One vet suggested putting some apple cider vinegar in the water or food, or supplementing the diet with vitamin C for prevention.

- Donna and George

donnageorge · Apr 3, 2004

Originally posted by Goblin
Dear donnageorge,

I call it rural, but in reality Kingman, Arizona is isolated. (We don't use that term because it is to close for comfort.) Because I rescue stray and feral cats I need a dry food which I can feed all of them. I work at a Manufactoring Plant, American Woodmark. (5:00 am to about 3:30 to 4:00 PM is normal) I usually put in a 10 hour day, so it is difficult, if not impossible to do seperate feedings. However I do have a good working relationship with my vet. If Iams is causing UTI's I would like to switch to a different High quality dry food? I can special order it through my Vet. Any suggestions?

Goblin

Goblin, we understand your dilemma now. Unfortunately, we're unable to recommend a dry food for your cats.

But from our experience, one of our cats, Ari, developed a UTI a few months after we adopted her, and at that time we fed her Wellness dry and canned cat food, a super-premium brand. After she got her antibiotic treatment from a conventional vet, we switched her from Wellness to other super-premium brands, namely Innova and Holistic Blend. That seemed to do the trick for Ari, and those brands may help with your affected cat. But then our other cat, Sully, started developing the same infrequent skin problems that she had with the Wellness. After seeing a holistic vet, the both of them are now on a raw diet and doing fine.

In Zucker's book, there is mention of various herbal, homeopathic, and nutritional supplements that may also help rid of your cat's UTI. We can't reprint it all here because it's several pages long, but perhaps it may be worth your while to check out the book or other similar books: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

Getting your cat to drink more water may help. Some tips we got from our holistic vet:

- Some cats prefer different kinds of water. You may wish to try refrigerating the water, filtered water, distilled water, or bottled water.

- Some cats enjoy ice cubes made from flavoured broth (tuna or salmon juice mixed with water and frozen).

- Keep the food and water bowls away from the litter box area.

- Keep the water bowl clean; cats have a keen sense of smell and are easily turned off by odours on the bowl's edge. Stainless steel or ceramic dishes are easier to keep clean and odour free than plastic dishes. The water dish should be washed at least every other day if possible.

- Some cats seem to prefer a clear glass shallow bowl from which to drink. Experiment with different ones.

Hope this helps,
- Donna and George

mzjazz2u · Apr 3, 2004

Originally posted by Jen
They are made by the same company? So what is the difference between the two then? Just curious. How do the prices of Nutro compare to Iams?

I looked at Nutro the other day. It's about $13 for an 8 pound bag. IAMS is $10 for an 8 pound bag.

I'm not sure what the difference is between IAMS and Eukanuba. All I know is they're made by the same company! Well, if you read the ingredients they are slightly different.

Did you know that there are cat foods with Urinary Tract formulas? Maybe you can check those out.

donnageorge · Apr 3, 2004

Originally posted by mzjazz2u
Did you know that there are cat foods with Urinary Tract formulas? Maybe you can check those out.

We've read that there are prescription diets meant for cats with a history of UTI, but it seems they're meant to be used only for crises, and only for a few months. Apparently, some of these special diets are so acidic that if a cat eats them for a long time, the cat may develop stones that would have to be surgically removed.

jen · Apr 3, 2004

I bought Nutro for Adult/inactive cats and also for UTI Prevention. I spent $19.00 for a 20lbs. bag which seemed like a good deal to me. Plus there's a $10 mail in rebate! I am going to stick with this for awhile and see if it helps. The vet I go to is really cheap ($10) so I can take him back in a few weeks and get him looked at again.

Also...
I have never noticed a problem in my cats not drinking enough but thanks for the suggestion. We have a variety of bowls of different sizes and depths in 2 different places in the apartment. As far as putting apple cider vinegar in the cats water, I already put a couple tablespoons of something for their teeth and mouth, to fight bacteria and such, cant think of what its called. Can I mix them you think?

donnageorge · Apr 4, 2004

Originally posted by Jen
I bought Nutro for Adult/inactive cats and also for UTI Prevention. I spent $19.00 for a 20lbs. bag which seemed like a good deal to me. Plus there's a $10 mail in rebate! I am going to stick with this for awhile and see if it helps. The vet I go to is really cheap ($10) so I can take him back in a few weeks and get him looked at again.

Also...
I have never noticed a problem in my cats not drinking enough but thanks for the suggestion. We have a variety of bowls of different sizes and depths in 2 different places in the apartment. As far as putting apple cider vinegar in the cats water, I already put a couple tablespoons of something for their teeth and mouth, to fight bacteria and such, cant think of what its called. Can I mix them you think?

The Nutro UTI food sounds interesting, and if it works for the long-term, even better.

Not sure about mixing the apple cider vinegar with what you're giving them for their teeth though. Probably best to check with your vet on that.

gary balkam · Apr 10, 2013

Jen said:
They are made by the same company? So what is the difference between the two then? Just curious. How do the prices of Nutro compare to Iams?

I am also wondering why it has had no effect on all my other cats and all the cats we feed at the shelter I work at? A lot of people buy Iams and their cats are fine. Is there something different about Elliot that it is effecting him that way? Maybe his age has something to do with it and over time, the others will develop problems too. I will definately check out Nutro.

Oh I also have a gigantic bag of a cheaper brand of food like Dad's I think, is it ok to mix this in with the better food just to finish it off? Since Elliot is having problems, maybe I shouldn't. Will the lesser quality food be bad for him?

One more question: Is a Urinary Tract infection painful? What happens exactly? Why can't the cat make it to the litter box? Will it kill them if it goes untreated? If it is possible to not know they have it that is. Any good sites about it?
Thanks I appreciate it.

Yes, very painful. If you go by the same condition as humans get. Urination is slow and not a steady stream. Can contain blood, puss, and basically feels like pouring hot sauce on an open cut. (or rubbing alcohol).

The difference between the 2 brands made by the same company, is one is higher quality, while the Iams formula has been made cheaper to mass produce. All they really did was purchase the Iams name, which is no way connected to the quality. A person or company could in fact, purchase another company, such as Gap, buy a bunch of cheap products made in a lower economy country and sell with a Gap label, for less than normal Gap items, yet vastly more than the identical item from a retail store, such as Walmart.

imbri · Apr 10, 2013

If all the cats are on the same diet and only one if having issues then diet isn't likely the first cause. Did your vet run diagnostic tests? A basic urinalysis will show if he has urinary crystals and those are often food related. It will also show if there is an infection as there will be elevated levels of white blood cells in the urine (Even if no bacteria are seen). Alternatively the urine issues could be sterile cystitis which is very common in a multi pet house holds as stress is the trigger for it.

UTI is not as common in cats as it is in dogs, and it is a very uncomfortable condition. The treatment of choice is antibiotic therapy after culturing the urine and testing the bacteria that grow to see which antibiotic works best. Your vet will need to collect a sterile urine sample run this test. If left untreated the infection might be fought off by the cat's immune system after a long illness, or it may go systemic. Either way it causes painful inflammation of the bladder than lead to scarring and can also cause issues after the infection is cleared up.

Sterile cystitis and urinary crystals are far more common in cats than UTI, and they are both equally as painful. This is why cats stop using their litter when they have these conditions, they learn to associate the litter pan with the pain of urinating.

With crystals (and the resultant bladder stones that can form) your only option is diet change. Preferably to an all canned diet. Brand wise Iams and Eukanuba are not my first choices but they are not the worst foods on the market. Lately the animal hospital I work for has had a strong trend of cats on "grain free" dry foods developing crystals so I personally would recommend avoiding those as well.

As a side note, cats who are prone to urinary crystals should not be fed over the counter urinary diets as they can actually make the situation much worse.

All the recommendations for increasing the water intake are spot on, it is one of the best things you can do for all 3 of these conditions.

catspaw66 · Apr 11, 2013

Imbri said:
If all the cats are on the same diet and only one if having issues then diet isn't likely the first cause. Did your vet run diagnostic tests? A basic urinalysis will show if he has urinary crystals and those are often food related. It will also show if there is an infection as there will be elevated levels of white blood cells in the urine (Even if no bacteria are seen). Alternatively the urine issues could be sterile cystitis which is very common in a multi pet house holds as stress is the trigger for it.

UTI is not as common in cats as it is in dogs, and it is a very uncomfortable condition. The treatment of choice is antibiotic therapy after culturing the urine and testing the bacteria that grow to see which antibiotic works best. Your vet will need to collect a sterile urine sample run this test. If left untreated the infection might be fought off by the cat's immune system after a long illness, or it may go systemic. Either way it causes painful inflammation of the bladder than lead to scarring and can also cause issues after the infection is cleared up.

Sterile cystitis and urinary crystals are far more common in cats than UTI, and they are both equally as painful. This is why cats stop using their litter when they have these conditions, they learn to associate the litter pan with the pain of urinating.

With crystals (and the resultant bladder stones that can form) your only option is diet change. Preferably to an all canned diet. Brand wise Iams and Eukanuba are not my first choices but they are not the worst foods on the market. Lately the animal hospital I work for has had a strong trend of cats on "grain free" dry foods developing crystals so I personally would recommend avoiding those as well.

As a side note, cats who are prone to urinary crystals should not be fed over the counter urinary diets as they can actually make the situation much worse.

All the recommendations for increasing the water intake are spot on, it is one of the best things you can do for all 3 of these conditions.

Gary Balkam said:
Yes, very painful. If you go by the same condition as humans get. Urination is slow and not a steady stream. Can contain blood, puss, and basically feels like pouring hot sauce on an open cut. (or rubbing alcohol).

The difference between the 2 brands made by the same company, is one is higher quality, while the Iams formula has been made cheaper to mass produce. All they really did was purchase the Iams name, which is no way connected to the quality. A person or company could in fact, purchase another company, such as Gap, buy a bunch of cheap products made in a lower economy country and sell with a Gap label, for less than normal Gap items, yet vastly more than the identical item from a retail store, such as Walmart.

Both of you have good comments, but the thread you are replying to had been dormant for 9 years. Some of the issues are the same, but most have been changed. May I suggest either one of you start a new thread. You will get many more responses than to this old one.

just mike · Apr 11, 2013

Jen said:
They are made by the same company? So what is the difference between the two then? Just curious. How do the prices of Nutro compare to Iams?

I am also wondering why it has had no effect on all my other cats and all the cats we feed at the shelter I work at? A lot of people buy Iams and their cats are fine. Is there something different about Elliot that it is effecting him that way? Maybe his age has something to do with it and over time, the others will develop problems too. I will definately check out Nutro.

Oh I also have a gigantic bag of a cheaper brand of food like Dad's I think, is it ok to mix this in with the better food just to finish it off? Since Elliot is having problems, maybe I shouldn't. Will the lesser quality food be bad for him?

One more question: Is a Urinary Tract infection painful? What happens exactly? Why can't the cat make it to the litter box? Will it kill them if it goes untreated? If it is possible to not know they have it that is. Any good sites about it?

Thanks I appreciate it.

They are made by the same company. The formulas are different but most likely made at the same plants. Pricing for Nutro and IAMS is comparable in most of the stores I work at. The pricing is up to the individual stores however. Nutro, nor IAMS, has a lot to do with the pricing in the stores. Of course, if Nutro or IAMS raises their wholesale prices, the stores will raise theirs as well.

UTIs in cats is painful and yes, it can cause death in some cases. Your vet will be able to help you with this. If Dad's is their primary food, yes, mix it in for a couple of weeks if you have enough of it. Preferably over the course of 2 weeks to help with a smooth transition.

I'm going to read the rest of the replies on this thread and will most likely try to help with additional info as more questions come up that you may have. :nod:

Iams=Bad??

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