Cat Marking Territory (long post but please read!)

rufio

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So this has been an ongoing problem that I think started when we got our 3rd cat, Sebastian, 2 years ago. We had 4 litter boxes (in our 1200 sqft apt... not a great way to live), but we still had litter box issues that I believe stemmed from aggression issues on behalf of our cat we'd had for years, Gypsy. She would attack Sebastian all the time, so he developed bad habits that eventually turned into a marking war between the two of them. We had success with keeping Gypsy separated in the spare room all the time, but that was not sustainable because we are expecting a baby and needed that room to no longer be a cat room. We decided to rehome her because between the two cats she was the most rehome-able, a beautiful kitty with no previous litterbox issues that just needed a simpler household. Sebastian on the other hand still hadn't fully demonstrated his ability to use a litter box all the time (issues with both urination and defecation), so even though he was the new kid on the block, I didn't feel right sending an untrained cat to someone else who may not be as patient with him. 

Fast forward. Gypsy has been out of the house for over 4 months and Sebastian started using the litter box like he should. He still had some issues, but I attributed that to the carpet still having not been properly cleaned all the way. We use Nature's Miracle which does an awesome job with the smell, but there was such a huge volume of pee. I ended up buying a carpet shampooer that I have been obsessive with, so I think things are finally actually clean now within the past couple weeks. I also started him on buspirone (5 mg 2x/day) which is a medication for generalized anxiety disorder. There are some journal articles showing its efficacy in treating spraying issues which seem to be the only "litterbox issue" that is left. He defecates and urinates in the litter box now, but still marks in certain areas. I bought a new scratching post and put it in a hot spot to try and get him to "mark" by scratching, but that hasn't fully stopped it. I also have a plug in feliway diffuser that I want to say is helping, except that yesterday he actually marked ON the diffuser which diffused cat urine smell all through the house. NOT PRETTY.

I'm getting super frustrated here, and then today I found a clue. I went out on my front porch to water a couple plants and Sebastian followed me outside. He began sniffing at the outside wall near the door and I saw that someone had marked there! I immediately put him inside and cleaned it up out there, but when I came inside I found that he had marked not once but THREE times in about 5 minutes. Sooo I think I found the issue perhaps (or at least part of it). 

So my question is.. is there anything else you guys recommend I try? And mostly, what the hell am I supposed to do to keep some random cat away from my front porch?? I live upstairs in a quad-plex so I have my own stairs and front porch, but I can't do the typical things I've seen like motion sensored air or water things since it's the only entrance to my house (that would probably prevent amazon orders from ever being delivered lol) and only about a 9x5ft porch. I don't think that anything like cayenne pepper would work just because it's all open and windy and the porch is wood with slits between. I'm at a loss.. maybe putting up a bunch of windchimes and/or wind socks super low to the ground would help? I don't know.

Advice or even just some encouragement would be greatly appreciated. We're going to have a baby in a couple months and my husband is about ready to throw the cat out the front door :( 

P.S. Sebastian does have other anxiety symptoms besides just marking. He obsessively meows and claws at the carpet under the door to the nursery. If I distract him by playing with him he will stop, but he immediately goes back when stop. I can't be playing with him literally all the time lol when I let him in there (supervised, my husband would lose it if he marked anything in there) he just kind of wanders and doesn't seem particularly interested in anything specific. I think he's just one of those cats that can't stand a closed door, but I can't trust him to be in there unsupervised either, so he meows. A LOT. When he isn't meowing or marking he is an awesome cat who loves to cuddle and play, so I can't imagine getting rid of him. Also, I never mentioned our other cat, Rufio. He is a super chill dude who doesn't get involved in any of the crazy. They love each other, so I'm pretty positive he is a non-issue in this whole fiasco. 
 

margd

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I wonder if something like this would help?  It gives off a low hum rather than spraying water that might drench the poor amazon guy and make him angrily hurl your order of delicate china into the bushes.

   It doesn't have a lot of reviews but all but one claim the product works well.  Several people were troubled by feral cats and this took care of the problem. 

Here is another similar item, again showing success in keeping unwanted cats away: 
There are plenty of other similar items on the market. 

Switching to a different approach, you might try one of the concentrated citrus deterrents available.   As a rule, cats hate the smell of citrus and the following products both get good reviews, some specifically involving keeping cats away by spraying on hard surfaces, such as your porch.  They have the added advantage of being useful inside as cleaning agents which will also repel cats from specific areas.



Another option to help Simon that you might consider is switching medications.  You mentioned that he is on buspirone but there are other medications, like prozac that are also used to reduce anxiety and litter box issues in cats.  Buspirone may not be the right medication for him  - every cat is different.  At any rate, it's worth discussing it with your vet.

One more item you might consider purchasing is a black light.  Just search "Black light for pet urine detection" on amazon to see some of the many products on the market.  These are fairly inexpensive and will at least ensure that you identify all of the urine.

Just an aside:  I shuddered when I read that Simon sprayed the Feliway diffuser and diffused the scent of his urine throughout the house.  Agh.  That's truly horrible.

 Congratulations on the joy of your coming baby - your life is about to get very interesting!   I hope Simon does not make it more "interesting" than usual.  Good luck finding a solution!
 

calicosrspecial

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Hi,

You sound like you have a good grasp of the situation.

Here is a link to deter ferals. https://www.alleycat.org/community-cat-care/humane-deterrents/

I am guessing the feral is the biggest cause of the issues. Please step up play with him in any problem areas. After play feed treats or a meal. So glad you are using cat trees (height) and scratching posts so he can "own" more things.

Cats do not like territory taken away. Did he have access to the baby room prior to closing it off?

Also, cats take on our emotions. The more calm and confident we are the more they are. You mentioned your husband a few times. Would it be possible for your husband to play with him and feed him? A potential source of stress could be coming from your husband. Cats are very sensitive and can sense stress and other things. Play tends to solve a lot of issues as does food as does a calm and confident attitude.

Please let me know if you have an questions or I missed anything. I am happy to help. It sounds like it should be solvable. We want him to be confident going into the birth as that will be a change for him as well.
 
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rufio

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Thank you so much Margd for those suggestions. I'll be looking into them for sure! He's only been on the buspirone for a couple weeks at this point so we're not expecting drastic results for at least a few more weeks. If after 2 months there isn't any change Prozac is the next thing to try. I know it can take awhile for these meds to really take effect. I do have a blacklight. It hurt my soul to look around with it which is why I just hardcore cleaned the whole carpet with extra care taken to use (a lot of) enzyme cleaner on all the edges of the carpet. 

And OMG yes. The incident with the diffuser was unbelievable. As irritated as I was, I was almost kind of impressed lol!

Thank you for the congratulations :) we're super excited. Going to have to make sure the fur babies don't feel neglected, but I think it'll be fine. They're both love people so I think they'll eventually like our new human. I'm definitely prepared for some backsliding in behavior surrounding such a huge life change which is why I really want to get things as good as they can possibly be before then. 
 
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rufio

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Thank you CalicosRSpecial. I can't believe I am just now discovering a feral cat issue. It's been years since we've had a few cats roaming around and I haven't seen any in quite a while until the other night I saw one lurking across the street. Hopefully if I can get that cat to back off he'll be happier. My mom watches too much cat whisperer stuff and suggested I let Sebastian outside to mark his own territory to keep the other cat away, but that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. 

He is a pretty spoiled cat. Our living room is full of cat toys, tubes, boxes, 3 cat trees and a whole shelf of little stuffed animals that Sebastian likes to pick up and bring with him around the house lol! I always have ribbons on a stick near my desk to get his attention and play when he's being all anxious. I recently got laid off so he's been getting a lot more attention the past couple weeks actually, but I am trying to get my husband to participate more. He really wants the cats to like him, but he is definitely where some of the issues are coming from. He gets so angry with the cat, but I've banned him from yelling and sounding frustrated. I told him he can cuss the cat out as much as he wants as long as his voice sounds pleasant lol and he's starting to get better. He did actually take it upon himself a couple months ago to start feeding them himself so they like him more. I thought that was sweet :) 

Sebastian hasn't really ever had full access to the baby room. He had access for maybe a few months when we first got him, but it's been 1 1/2 yrs + that the door has been shut. Gypsy was kept in there for nearly a year, but she hasn't been there for awhile now. He's able to go in when I'm in there doing stuff, but once the door is open he doesn't even always stay in there long. I read somewhere to try putting two baby gates stacked on top of each other in the doorway instead of having the door closed. I'll probably try that to see if he maybe just doesn't like the door. 

Thank you for your advice!
 
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calicosrspecial

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Feral cats are often never seen so we don't always know they are around but they usually are. Try some of the deterrents and please step up play so your cat builds more confidence.

It is GREAT that your husband is feeding. Food builds a lot of trust and confidence. Often times it then the positives start to feed on themselves and everyone behaves better.

It doesn't sound like he experienced any loss of territory with the baby's room. That is good. It is probably his curiosity, wanting to know what is behind door #1. I have to think about it more but as long as he is not marking by that door or the walls by that door I am not too worried.

What certain areas is he marking?

Step up play around those areas then feed after play. Also consider adding a litter box there if possible. Also add a cat tree if possible and scratching posts.

Did he start marking around the time of your layoff? If so, he could be picking up on the stress. 

We'll figure this out. The more confident we get him the less likely he will feel the need to mark.
 
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rufio

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Our front door opens up right in between our "dining room" and living room. My husbands desk is to the right of the door and we have a dry bar of sorts to the left. He likes to mark the desk but I think I fixed that. We recently bought it from a friend who has 2 cats, so after I washed the whole desk well with vinegar he hasn't marked it, its been about a week. He also likes to mark on the side of the dry bar and basically along that entire exterior wall. That wall is where I have the feliway diffuser plugged in. I also have their 3 litter boxes arranged in a space on the opposite wall from the dry bar, about 6 feet in front of where he likes to mark. I put a tall scratching post right next to the dry bar and also put one of his food bowls further down along the wall. There isn't room for a cat tree there, but we have our dining room table there along that wall too that is never used for food so the cats like to sleep under it on the chairs, so it's kind of like a cat tree lol. He started marking a LONG time before I got laid off. Like, over a year. Since I got laid off I've had more time to try and find solutions which is why he started medication and I started using the feliway and finally got the carpet fully clean etc about 2 weeks ago.

I feel like he is already such a confident cat. We play with him all the time and he is always rolling over and stretching out in the middle of the floor asking for his belly to be rubbed. He can't get enough of it, and he's like this immediately after marking too. He has no shame lol I give him praise and love on him and play with him all the time. He will sometimes shy away from my husband since he has been known to yell at Sebastian, but he also will be stretched out rolling around near him while my husband is at his desk playing video games and sleep on the bed at his feet. He just tries to stay out of the way when my husband is up walking around the house. This cat is such a weirdo. 

I just got a new gallon of Nature's Miracle in the mail today (I've been out all weekend!), so I cleaned the outside wall of the front porch and door with it. Hoping that helps a little, and I'm planning on ordering one of those ultrasonic animal repeller things that Margd recommended. I read that those aren't good if there are kids around though, it bothers their ears, so when the baby comes we won't be able to use it. Any thoughts on whether you think some wind chimes or wind sock things around ground level might help keep the ferals away? 
 

calicosrspecial

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So all the marking is happening by the door where the feral is marking? Nowhere else?

The desk with the other cat's scent makes sense. But it is close to where the feral(s) mark.

I know it may not work but is it possible to add a litter box or two (1 on each side) by the door?

If that wall by the door is the only place then it seems it is the ferals causing the issue. Step up play by that door then feed. The the deterrents. There are some other ideas in that link that may help. You may want to start a new thread maybe in the Feral section asking about deterrents and what works. I personally have not tried any because my ferals home is here.

I love that your husband is making an effort with him. If we can get him to play with the cat that could be helpful (in addition to feeding).

We'll figure this out, hang in there.
 
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rufio

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It's happening basically from the front door, all the way along the wall down about 15+ ft. Occasionally He has done it elsewhere around the house, but I'm pretty sure it has been quite a while since he has done that. He used to go in our closet and behind the TV and under a table in the living room and near the washer and dryer and basically along any wall he felt like. There really isn't room for another litter box on that side of the wall by the door. I have 3 literally about 6 ft away across the entrance way though as close as they can get. And yes, the desk is right next to the front door too. I'll check out the Feral section. I checked out that link and most of the ideas seem like they would work really well for a yard, but not so much for just an upstairs front door. Thanks so much for helping me out with this. I think my husband is starting to get on board with the whole Sebastian "program" so I'm sure he will add in some play. How long should he play with the cat? All at once or just here and there? He tries sometimes, but gets frustrated when Sebastian runs away from his unexpected movements. Dad doesn't know how to play like Mom does haha

 

calicosrspecial

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Given that he is going by the front door I am pretty sure it is the feral outside. Sebastian is marking to let him know "this is mine" and "don't even think about coming in". If we can get the feral away from that door area and eliminate the feral marking I think we will solve the issue. The question is, how best to keep that feral(s) away. You have a TNR going on in your area? If so, you may want to ask the person doing it to trap him/them and get him/them neutered.

If you can ask your husband to play once in a while that would be great. Play for as long as Sebastian wants (within reason). A cat likes to stalk, pounce, kill. So it is bursts of energy, like they are hunting outside. Make the toy act like prey (a bird, a mouse, etc).   Sebastian should then focus on the toy, not on the hands or arms. Have your husband watch how you do it. It will do wonders with getting them to bond more and to build Sebastian's confidence. If Sebastian gets more confident he will not be as territorially threatened by that feral by the front door and wall.

You are very welcome. We'll figure this out. I am feeling good about what we know now and where we are at. We just need to figure out how to keep that feral away. Don't worry, we'll be here for you every step of the way.  
 

margd

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I've been following your thread with great interest - CalicosRSpecial has some great ideas. 
  I really think you'll be able to resolve this problem.  

I also wanted to add an apology.  Simon?  Well, I guess it starts with an S.  Please give my apologies to Sebastian for getting his name wrong! 
 
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rufio

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Haha I knew what you meant ;) If he is okay with me calling him Little Sh*t sometimes, I'm sure he doesn't mind being called Simon lol! It's a cute name. He was actually called Sleepy when we adopted him which seemed a little too on the nose for a cat name.
 

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Please keep in mind that cats do sense our emotions and can react and take on our emotions. When we get upset and call a cat by a derogatory name they can become more unsettled. It is not so much the name but the feelings behind the use of the name. A negative emotion can then lead to other negative behavior and things can escalate as the negativity can build on itself. Please try to be as calm and confident and positive around him as possible. I know it is hard but I truly believe it helps in curbing behavior.

I had a couple who's cat would go outside of the litter box due to pain. They would get rather upset and the cat went out of the litter box more. It stressed the cat out. I asked them to act like it was not a big deal, just clean it up especially when the cat was not around, not watching. So one distracted with food while the other cleaned it up. She started going in the litter box again eventually the inflamed intestine was controlled. It seemed like the stress the cat felt increased the behavior. Once the stress declined the behavior got better. Cats are pretty sensitive, more than I think we humans think.
 
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rufio

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haha anytime I call him a derogatory name it is 100% in love like "aww little kitty cat *while petting* its a good thing you're so cute you little sh*t," like when we call my nephew a little stinker :) It's never actually in anger.

Update. I started letting him outside in the front (supervised) for "morning patrol" to hopefully give him a positive place to mark his territory. Well, he was out of my sight for a few minutes so I went around the carport to find him and saw he had come face to face (about 10 ft away from) with who I am assuming is the "other cat" coming up to our door. This cat is NOT feral and belongs to somebody in the building next door. The other cat was definitely in the dominate posture and poor Sebastian was cowering and doing the "maybe if I move away verrrrry slowly you won't see me" thing. I came over and shooed the other cat away, but he was not terribly concerned AT ALL and just kind of meandered away even when I was chasing and clapping at him. SO I think this may have backfired and totally shot Sebastian's confidence. The previous mornings coming inside he was always so happy and relaxed rolling around on the ground, didn't really meow at the nursery door at all and only marked inside 1 time, but not this time. It took me awhile to even get him in the house. He didn't want to be carried, so I let him walk with me (he's a good boy who actually does stay at my side). It took him f o r e v e r because he kept cowering and looking over his shoulder like the other cat was stalking him, but I didn't see the cat again after he went behind the neighbor's fence. When he got in he was still so scared and when I carried him out to the back balcony so he could hang out with me while I planted some pots he clawed the crap out of me and ran to my room under the bed :( He loves the balcony and has never scratched anyone like that. 

I sprayed some "calming spray" under the bed with him and replaced his calming collar with a new one (it was about time) and gave him some space and eventually he came out and I loved on him and tried to play with him but ended up just bringing him to the highest cat tree and encouraging him to hang out on top there. Now today he's seeming normal but last night he marked nowhere near the front door behind one of his cat trees which was a bummer. He has been obsessing with the nursery door again, but he's happy to play and go out on the balcony again so I guess he's over it, but I think it definitely knocked him down a couple pegs from where he was the day before yesterday. UGH it's so frustrating that my neighbor's cat is allowed to just wander around and screw with my kitty.  rant over. 
 

calicosrspecial

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Great, so glad to hear that. I do know you love him.

Well I think we know what the issue is now. Step up play and feed. Play by the front door, and anywhere else he is having issues around especially by that cat tree. He is feeling territorially insecure because of that cat most likely. If we build his confidence through play then feed and get him in his tree it should help. keep giving him a lot of love.  I am glad he did bounce back but we do have some work to do with him. 

We'll get him confident, it will take some time but that (along with hopefulyl some deterrents outside) should get him to feel more secure and to know he owns the territory and not to worry.

Hang in there, I know you can do it.
 
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