Can A Raw Diet Really Cause Urinary Crystals???

lavishsqualor

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I was in Petco this afternoon while they were having one of their vaccination clinics.  I happened to overhear the vet castigating a male kitten owner for feeding the kitten a raw diet.  The vet went on to say that a raw diet could cause crystals!

I couldn't believe my ears.  I've been feeding Atticus and Thirteen raw to prevent crystals.  As I said on another thread, their food practically swims I add so much water to it, and I do this specifically for urinary health.

I wanted to talk to the vet but they wouldn't let me in line since I didn't have an animal with me.

I see nothing online to suggest that raw causes crystals.

Has anyone ever heard this before?
 

maureen brad

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From everything I have ever learned it is a diet of kibble and lack of water that causes urinary problems in cats.Thru the years I have heard vets say a lot of things concerning diet that are just a bunch of crap.

 I took one of my cats to the vet the other day. My vet was not in and the vet I saw had heard I fed my cats a raw diet and she gave me all the usual warnings of salmonella, listeria etc. Ugh.

 Things are changing slowly. I watch Animal Planets ' Dr. Jeff Rocky Mountain Vet' twice I have heard him tell  cat owners not to feed their cats kibble. I have even heard him say " Cats are carnivores, kibble isn't good for them" His wife is a vet and tonight she mentioned that dry diets cause Urinary/kidney issues in cats.
 
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lavishsqualor

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I always thought dry food was the culprit too.  

I'm still reeling from what I heard yesterday.  It's really bothering me.  I wish I could find a local vet who was, if not totally on board with raw feeding, at least accepting and knowledgeable about it.  Vets who are so negative tend to verge on fear-mongering, and I find it's difficult to forge any kind of relationship with them.

Now I'm wondering if I should add a premium quality can food into their diet.  

Ugh.
 

lisamarie12

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The only issue that may possibly be linked to raw diets and urinary crystals - and I may be wrong, is if the bone percentage is too high, hence, too much calcium in the diet.

The ideal bone percentage for a cat is 7-8% although some cats have no problem with 10%.

I've been doing mostly raw with my cats, periods even when I do 100% raw, and I've had no problems with the cats having any type of urinary blockages. I do try to be cognizant of the bone % though.

If you're concerned, you could opt for a boneless raw, like Rad Cat, which uses eggshell instead of bone as the calcium source, or you could do a combo of raw with bone for one meal, and another meal using RC.

As Maureen pointed out, it's typically the moisture deprived cats consuming kibble that are at a greater risk of crystals.

Mainly, just be aware of the bone % and I'm sure kitty will be fine.

There's an excellent article regarding crystals from feline-nutrition.org (type in "crystals", sorry I'm on a cell and can't link).
 
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orange&white

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I'm not neutral on the topic.  My bias comes due to transitioning from kibble to raw with 3 adult cats and 2 dogs starting in 2008, and seeing a huge difference for the better in my pets energy, coat luster, clean teeth and general vitality.

In 2013, my schedule and finances changed and I went back to processed "cat food" and "dog food" and watched a slow decline.  I went back to raw in January and am already seeing better coats, teeth and energy again.

The AVMA has a position statement against raw food, so most vets comply with that.  A few don't.  A minority of vets fully support raw feeders.  You can find a list of raw-friendly vets.  Some vets, like the one you heard at Petco are quite vocally, adamantly opposed to raw.  A few simply don't get involved in the discussion, like my vet.  I don't think he has ever asked me what I feed.  (Although, two of his vet techs were my next door neighbors for a few years...so they probably told him that I'm "one of those raw food wacko's"  lol)  He's never said a word to me about diet.  There are a lot more of us wacko's today than in 2008.

I'm confident enough in the health benefits and results of 100% raw diet that I'm raising my first kitten on raw.

That vet would tell you that my story is anecdotal and that there is no scientific evidence that a raw or home-cooked diet is better than commercially balanced processed food.  That is true, and I don't care whether studies are lacking.  I can see the results for myself.

True, an unbalanced raw diet can be a disaster for a pet's health, worse than processed foods.  Vets are reasonably afraid of encouraging a raw diet, because they can't trust people to get the right mix of meat/bone/organ/supplement.  A raw diet is uncontrollable, unlike a consistent processed pet food formula.   Instead of chastising pet owners for wanting to feed raw, they should get up to speed and hand out recipes for well-balanced raw diets.

Anyway, I do think more and more vets are seeing really incredibly healthy raw-fed pets (and some really unhealthy ones when the owner didn't know anything about balance).  Since pre-package, consistent, raw mixes are becoming more prevalent on the market, maybe the AVMA will loosen its stance in time.

Like I said, I'm a bit biased.
 

1CatOverTheLine

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The only issue that may possibly be linked to raw diets and urinary crystals - and I may be wrong, is if the bone percentage is too high, hence, too much calcium in the diet.

The ideal bone percentage for a cat is 7-8% although some cats have no problem with 10%.

I've been doing mostly raw with my cats, periods even when I do 100% raw, and I've had no problems with the cats having any type of urinary blockages. I do try to be cognizant of the bone % though.

If you're concerned, you could opt for a boneless raw, like Rad Cat, which uses eggshell instead of bone as the calcium source, or you could do a combo of raw with bone for one meal, and another meal using RC.

As Maureen pointed out, it's typically the moisture deprived cats consuming kibble that are at a greater risk of crystals.

Mainly, just be aware of the bone % and I'm sure kitty will be fine.

There's an excellent article regarding crystals from feline-nutrition.org (type in "crystals", sorry I'm on a cell and can't link).
The "crystals" are magnesium ammonium phosphate, i.e. Struvite, a common mineral which is soluble in acidic solvents, but not alkaline - under which conditions it forms a precipitate left behind as kidney and / or urinary bladder stones - and hence are likely to form in any animal infected with ammonia-producing microorganisms (Pseudomonas, Staphylococcus Klebsiella, Proteus, Mycoplasma, and cetera), given that the bacterial infection hydrolyzes urea to ammonium and raises urine pH to neutral or above, most especially in the presence of high magnesium values.   Kidney stones can, even absent any infection, form by the action of the proteinase enzyme Cauxin which is excreted in cat urine and is used in the production of feline pheromones (and here, especially in intact females), this by causing nucleation of Struvite crystals.  The dietary concern is simply not feeding an abundance of magnesium.  Shrimp, crab, clams, soy products, whole barley, bran, brown rice and seaweed byproducts are all extremely high in magnesium, and serve to act in the potentiation of kidney stones.  You'll find an excellent chart regarding magnesium content in certain foods here:

http://www.magnesiumeducation.com/food-sources-of-magnesium

.
 
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lavishsqualor

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I appreciate all the responses here.  You guys have made me feel better about my choices.  And OneCatOver, I feed primarily rabbit which according to your chart has a very low magnesium count.
 

orange&white

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I think the two largest drivers of health are genetics and nutrition (followed by creating a low-stress environment as much as possible).  If a cat is born genetically predisposed to urinary problems, it will likely have problems regardless of diet.  Good nutrition may minimize or delay genetic weaknesses, and since nutrition is a factor we can control, we do the best we can.
 
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lavishsqualor

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I agree, Orange&White.  
 
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