Outdoor cat in hospital, VET at a loss

orange&white

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
8,420
Purraise
9,669
Location
Texas
I've been following your story and am so sorry that your cat is having such a rough go with his health.  Hopefully all the health issues can get sorted out soon now that they are testing and treating properly.

There are a couple of things I might try for the litter box problem:

1)  Use dirt/soil from outside instead of store bought litter.  If he will use that, then slowly start mixing in a little bit of the litter you would like for him to use.  Over several weeks, mix in a higher amount of litter and less soil/dirt until you don't have to use dirt any more.

2)  Since he is peeing on towels, try cutting a towel into strips and lay the pieces on top of litter in the box.  If he will use that, then same system as above.  Start removing pieces of towel every few days until there are no strips of towel and only litter left.

It is entirely possible that his litter box problems are largely due to the urinary and other health problems.  He may start using a box once these conditions are all cured or managed.  (Plus neutering should help for both the cat box and yowling-and-prowling issues.)
 

mazie

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
1,558
Purraise
1,416
Location
south Georgia
 
I've been following your story and am so sorry that your cat is having such a rough go with his health.  Hopefully all the health issues can get sorted out soon now that they are testing and treating properly.

There are a couple of things I might try for the litter box problem:

1)  Use dirt/soil from outside instead of store bought litter.  If he will use that, then slowly start mixing in a little bit of the litter you would like for him to use.  Over several weeks, mix in a higher amount of litter and less soil/dirt until you don't have to use dirt any more.

2)  Since he is peeing on towels, try cutting a towel into strips and lay the pieces on top of litter in the box.  If he will use that, then same system as above.  Start removing pieces of towel every few days until there are no strips of towel and only litter left.

It is entirely possible that his litter box problems are largely due to the urinary and other health problems.  He may start using a box once these conditions are all cured or managed.  (Plus neutering should help for both the cat box and yowling-and-prowling issues.)
I like what you said, also have you tried placing one of his stools or pee scent into the litter box? 
 

basschick

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
Messages
603
Purraise
487
maybe you could try using attract cat litter for a while.  is it available there?  the full product name is "Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract Cat Litter".
 

stephanietx

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
14,761
Purraise
3,484
Location
Texas
Get a litter box and punch some drain holes in the bottom.  Place inside a larger container. Get soil from outside and sow some grass seeds.  Maybe he'll use it if it's got grass in it. He wants something soft and he's used to grass outside. 
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #26

harry028

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
24
Purraise
5
Hi,   That's a great idea and will try tomorrow as nothing else is working. Thank you for that!   We did buy the stuff to put in the box that attracts them.....it's in there now and nothing.  YET, but maybe???

Harry came home tonight and the cries are non-stop.  Any ideas to stop the crying? He's not in any pain but is gong to stress himself out eventually.    Vet said no chamomile tea with his medicine.    He is eating and drinking fine, but really trying to get out. 

He doesn't have pancreatitis.   The Vet said he will see us Monday to re-test urine.  As of today, he is still showing a UTI and that is with 8 days of shots of medicine.   We have to give him 2 medicines... Metacam syringe and Clavaseptin tablets, every day.   

Vet said he will not neuter him for 2-3 weeks After his urine shows no infection.  So, he is in good shape overall.  Strong again.  Have purchased a fountain for clean water for him.  

If we could just get him to use the box and stay inside, he'd have a great life.    One of the Vets said today that when he is well, we should let him go out again as it is unfair to him.....I don't agree, but he sure made me feel like a bad mom for wanting to keep him inside long term.  We may not be able to, but we're going to give it our best shot.   

All ideas and advice are very welcome.

Thank you all :) 
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #27

harry028

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
24
Purraise
5
Great news!   Harry used the litter box last night and this morning!   He is still crying like crazy to get out, but then settling down to sleep for a while in between.

He took his medicine, no problem.  Eating and drinking water. Not playing at all yet, but hoping that will come, soon.

Don't know whether it will stick, but he's making great strides.....today!  Ha ha

Thank you! 
 

Mamanyt1953

Rules my home with an iron paw
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
31,132
Purraise
67,599
Location
North Carolina
WHOO HOOOOOO!  He is adjusting!  This is very good news, indeed.  Keep doing what you are doing.  And since he is settling, I totally support your decision to keep him in.  He will settle even more after you are able to neuter him.  Let's face it, the average lifespan of an outdoor cat is about 4-7 years, while I've known LOTS of indoor-only cats who have lived to be 17-20, or even longer, in fairly good health.  I think that says it all.  The mother of one of our members has an outdoor cat who is 13 now, but that is the exception rather than the rule.  Unless you live in a fairly rural area with few predators, the outside is a hostile environment for cats.  It is a testament to their resiliency that they do as well as they do.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #30

harry028

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
24
Purraise
5
Hi,  Well poor old Harry is back in hospital and we are really mad with Vets.   Kept him in house Thursday, Fri, Sat, Sun and today until we brought him to Vet.  

On Saturday and yesterday, he was starving and eating all the time.  He used the litter box, but I noticed only when we put him in room.  The crying was terrible

to get out.  This morning, we found that he was leaking urine as he was walking or sitting down.  There were 2 balls of urine in the box from last night.

The Vet had told us to come back today for a check.....so the minute we told her what Harry was going on she said they had to catheterize him, do an ultra sound and

re-test blood.     About an hour later, they called to say "Hi, We've finally diagnosed Harry!!! "   His bladder is full of sand, so it feels like glass cutting him when he

urinates.  They cleared the bladder, flushed with IV fluids and will do it for the next 3 days.    

Why would they have not done an ultra sound last week?  Why didn't they see the sand when he was catheterized last week?   The whole thing stinks to me and

our poor little Harry is still suffering. 

They said he will have to be on daily antibiotics for up to a year (to be decided)   

We really feel that they didn't treat him or us right.  I'm the one who asked for the urine to be checked when they didn't know what was wrong.    He should not have been sent home to us

on Thursday.....but it was a holiday here on Friday so they were closed thru to Monday.  Wondering if they sent him home for convenience.  Also, today she said that Harry may have psychological problems and

would be much better off as an outdoor cat.    I was like what????   

Very mad that he's been in pain this long, but happy if he is getting relief.   If, he really is this time.

Any input would be so helpful.  Thank you.   Here's a picture of him from Saturday.  They shaved under his chin, so he doesn't look so good. 
 
Last edited:

orange&white

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
8,420
Purraise
9,669
Location
Texas
Ohhh, I'm so sorry to hear this happened to Harry and you.  I don't have any input except to ask if you have another vet option in your area.  I've had a pet seriously misdiagnosed before by human error and ignorance at a vet, and it cost a lot to treat the animal for a disease she did not have.  I definitely understand your anger at them just now discovering the real problem after all this time, testing and effort.
 

bella lago

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
25
Purraise
13
 
UTI's are common and rarely an emergency. There are many ways to practice good medicine and still not get it right 100% of the time as each patient is different and reasonable decisions can sometimes lead to bad results.  Any vet who opens his practice for you on a sat night is doing an extraordinary thing, my suggestion is to keep your vet an ally and work with him.  Your cats biggest statistical risk to his health is going outside and your vet can't control that.
I agree with this a hundred percent.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #33

harry028

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
24
Purraise
5
Hi, Has anyone had the problem of sand in the bladder?   I cannot find anything about sand.....just crystals?

Thanks for replies and for sure this is the end of this Vet.  Which has supposed to be 'the best'.   

Thank you :) 
 

Norachan

Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Joined
May 27, 2013
Messages
32,607
Purraise
32,759
Location
Mount Fuji, Japan
Hi @Harry028

I think by sand your vet must mean crystals. They are also sometimes called bladder stones. That will be why you were having so much trouble teaching him to use the litter box. Not only was he having trouble controlling his bladder but he felt pain every time he tried to pee, which made him avoid the litter.

Once this problem is under control it should be easy enough to litter train him.

Crystals are usually caused by dietary imbalance or insufficient water intake. They can be caused by UTI's as well. The way they are treated depends on the kind of crystals he has. Your vet will need to make sure what caused the crystals before prescribing antibiotics. These will work with a bacterial UTI but if his crystals were caused by a stress-induced UTI, for example, they won't have any effect.

Hopefully something as simple as a change of diet will be all that he needs. If he is still peeing outside the box could you keep him confined to one room? A small bathroom with puppy pads on the floor will be OK for a few days. Just so you don't have to follow him around cleaning up after him.

I just wanted to add that it really would be much better for Harry if you can keep him indoors, or at least restrict him to your house and an outdoor enclosure. For one thing it will be a lot easier to recognise another flare-up of bladder problems if he is using a litter box. If he is peeing outside you have no way of knowing how much or how often he pees. 
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #35

harry028

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
24
Purraise
5
Hi, a few questions please.....  

I agree with everything you said and I now wonder how long it was going on until he went down with a fever.

When the vet said it was sand, i said do you mean crystals?  She said no, first comes crystals, then sand then stones.   So that part has me confused, as I can't find anything on 'sand' in bladder.    What is your opinion of that?  

How will they determine the type of crystals to be treated?  Just so I know that they are doing the right thing.

How will vet find out what caused the crystals before prescribing antibiotics ?   How would they know if it's stress induced?

Sorry for all the questions, but since we are so close to making him well, I don't want any more mistakes.....so I want to have the right questions and know what type of answers I should receive.

Thank you very, very much. 
 

Mamanyt1953

Rules my home with an iron paw
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
31,132
Purraise
67,599
Location
North Carolina
OK...passing your questions off to the experts, but hanging in here and cheering you on, and sending lots of  good 
 
 
to poor Charlie.

 Look,  for some reason, vets in the British Isles seem to think that cats are miserable indoors.  The exact opposite hold true in the USA.  Here, the thought is that an outdoor cat is far more likely to get into serious trouble, or pick up diseases from other, unvaccinated cats.  I do know that the average lifespan of an outdoor cat here is 4-7 years, but an indoor cat can expect to live 7-15 years, and many go well beyond that into their 20s.  That speaks volumes.  And once he is neutered and the drive to be out tomcatting around is gone he will settle into house life just fine.  AND, as @Norachan  said, if he is in, you can monitor his potty habits and head a problem off at the pass before it gets bad again.  
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #37

harry028

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
24
Purraise
5
Hoping  I can get answers to the questions prior to meeting vet again today.  

Thank you for the encouragement!!!  
 

Norachan

Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Joined
May 27, 2013
Messages
32,607
Purraise
32,759
Location
Mount Fuji, Japan
I've heard of crystals and stones, but not sand. I guess your vet is referring to the same thing but differentiating between the size?



The vet will take samples and send them off to the lab to determine exactly what kind of crystals/sand he has. 

This article goes into more detail.

 http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/urinary/c_ct_crystalluria?page=show

If Harry has a fever that would indicate an infection, whether from the UTI or something else. I'm not a vet, but to me it would make sense to prescribe antibiotics to clear up the infection while waiting for the test results on whatever is causing the crystals/sand.

Hope everything goes well at the vets, please let us know what they say.
 

pogo16

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
36
Purraise
12
Well, having sand is better than stones, which is just a size difference.

My cat had surgery for oxalate stones and it took 2 trips for the vet to determine that it wAs more than the standard UTI.

Your cat may need pain meds as it hurts to pee. Additionally, he might want something that will help him relax. my vets have told me that the bladder is generally one of the first organs that will react to a stressed out cat.

Personally, i would not be ok with antibiotics for an entire year as your vet suggested. I would ask why the infection would hang around so long. My cat certainly never took antibiotics for that long and she had surgery!

I too would keep Harry indoors, if for no other reason than you just spent a lot of money and you need to make sure it was well spent! On a more serious note, you need to keep an eye on him and know his peeing pattern.

Harry will eventually quit complaining about inside once he realizes you won't budge. Just stiffen your spine. it's hard, I know.
 
Top