Five Day Old Kitten Weight Lower Than Birth Weight

kittymaow · Mar 5, 2017

I'm fostering a mother cat who had three kittens five days ago. They were all around 100g at birth, but five days on, one of them is now 75g (the other two are almost 200g) I believe this is largely due to another kitten constantly pushing her off the teat, and I have taken steps to both supplement feed and give the kitten some solo time with mother, so I am hoping the weight will start to climb.

My question is this: all the posts here on this subject strongly suggest that this is very, very bad news. However, aside from her low weight, she seems otherwise well. She's feeding well when she is not being bullied off the teat, mother cat is looking after her, and she seems strong.

Has anyone had a kitten of this low a weight turn around and make it? I have spent all day ensuring that she is able to eat every hour. It has been almost twelve hours since her last weigh though, and she hasn't put on any weight.

StefanZ · Mar 6, 2017

KittyMaow said:
I'm fostering a mother cat who had three kittens five days ago. They were all around 100g at birth, but five days on, one of them is now 75g (the other two are almost 200g) I believe this is largely due to another kitten constantly pushing her off the teat, and I have taken steps to both supplement feed and give the kitten some solo time with mother, so I am hoping the weight will start to climb.

My question is this: all the posts here on this subject strongly suggest that this is very, very bad news. However, aside from her low weight, she seems otherwise well. She's feeding well when she is not being bullied off the teat, mother cat is looking after her, and she seems strong.

Has anyone had a kitten of this low a weight turn around and make it? I have spent all day ensuring that she is able to eat every hour. It has been almost twelve hours since her last weigh though, and she hasn't put on any weight.

If she is that lively and healthy, she should make it, now when you are extra vigilant and extra much helping, both with giving her solo time with momma, and supplementing feed her. It may be so, she is a weak suckler - in such case supplementing them with a needleless syringe or a dropper helps much. Its enough they can swallow, they dont need to be good sucklers.

What kmr / goats milk are you using?

But you are entirely right, is alarming, Red Alert, and you must help her as much as you can, NOW, before she starts really downhill.

kittymaow · Mar 6, 2017

I don't know if she is a weak suckler so much as she has a sister with a vendetta against her. It's quite something to behold. I'm using a milk replacement our rescue uses. I've had a few litters born here, but all the kittens have been fine in each of them, so this is my first serious runt issue. It's good to hear that it's not necessarily the end of the line for her. I'm hoping to see some weight gain very soon! Thanks for your reply

As for the supplement feeding, she's really not into it much at all. I am using a needless syringe, which seems to be working even though she's annoyed by it. She is, however, really taking advantage of her solo time with mum to feed well. She's had some very good long feeds today, so I am hopeful.

Thanks again!

kittymaow · Mar 6, 2017

She did just take about 1ml of kitten formula! That's her best supplement feed yet. Hopefully that bodes well

StefanZ · Mar 6, 2017

KittyMaow said:
I don't know if she is a weak suckler so much as she has a sister with a vendetta against her. It's quite something to behold. I'm using a milk replacement our rescue uses. I've had a few litters born here, but all the kittens have been fine in each of them, so this is my first serious runt issue. It's good to hear that it's not necessarily the end of the line for her. I'm hoping to see some weight gain very soon! Thanks for your reply

As for the supplement feeding, she's really not into it much at all. I am using a needless syringe, which seems to be working even though she's annoyed by it. She is, however, really taking advantage of her solo time with mum to feed well. She's had some very good long feeds today, so I am hopeful.

Thanks again!

Sounds good!

It may help to hold her in a towel, even wrap her up in a towel, when handfeeding. You proceed with it till you clearly notice she is adding, minimum 6g a day, preferably more.

The main reason asking about the brand of kmr replacement is, some rescuers use the Hartz brand. I suppose its cheap, and possibly also, Hartz is sponsoring some. The problem is, Hartz being a cheap brand, is also using cheap suppliers. So the quality control is poor and quality uneven - and disasters struck now and then. This is my theory at least why disasters struck their users now and then..

If you can get raw goats milk, its often some edge. But a good kmr is enough good.

kittymaow · Mar 6, 2017

She's up five grams!

We're in NZ, so it's not a brand that you'd recognize, but it seems to be doing the trick! And probably, just having mum to herself several times a day has made a huge difference too. She's still only 80 grams, but given she only started being supplemented a day ago, I'm encouraged by that.

I'm definitely going to keep up the regime that seems to be working for her

Sarthur2 · Mar 6, 2017

Great news! Yes, please keep it up! [emoji]128522[/emoji]

catwoman707 · Mar 6, 2017

For this baby to survive, it is urgent that the lack of weight gain does not continue.

Babies will hate being fed when they have mom to nurse from, but they also don't know what's best for them to survive, syringe feeding is slow and takes time and patience, but it's not going to be too long either. Once stable and bigger baby will gain strength and will start to gain weight daily on it's own soon enough.

Hate to say this too, I know all too well what it's like to hold a squirmy resistant little one, trying to get formula in to them drop by drop, but 1 ml is not nearly enough. Each feeding you give should be a good 3 mls. On tummy, a drop or two in the cheek at a time, wait for swallow and a breath then repeat.

Be sure the formula stays good and warm, have a mug of hot water with you and drop the full syringe in to it now and then to re-warm it.

I find it easiest if I sit at the kitchen table, place a towel on it in front of me, so it puts him up higher and I can see much better to carefully feed.

Resisting or not, he needs to take in 3 mls each time you supplement for best results.

They are growing at an incredible rate right now, meaning organs are developing and growing at this rate too, so lack of gaining and actual weight loss is a very big deal for his survival or not.

I highly suspect the bigger sib who fights him off means he is wanting to use that same nipple, and big sib is not having that! They nurse off of the same nipple throughout the nursing period and will protect it from being shared.

kittymaow · Mar 6, 2017

catwoman707 said:
For this baby to survive, it is urgent that the lack of weight gain does not continue.

Babies will hate being fed when they have mom to nurse from, but they also don't know what's best for them to survive, syringe feeding is slow and takes time and patience, but it's not going to be too long either. Once stable and bigger baby will gain strength and will start to gain weight daily on it's own soon enough.

Hate to say this too, I know all too well what it's like to hold a squirmy resistant little one, trying to get formula in to them drop by drop, but 1 ml is not nearly enough. Each feeding you give should be a good 3 mls. On tummy, a drop or two in the cheek at a time, wait for swallow and a breath then repeat.

Be sure the formula stays good and warm, have a mug of hot water with you and drop the full syringe in to it now and then to re-warm it.

I find it easiest if I sit at the kitchen table, place a towel on it in front of me, so it puts him up higher and I can see much better to carefully feed.

Resisting or not, he needs to take in 3 mls each time you supplement for best results.

They are growing at an incredible rate right now, meaning organs are developing and growing at this rate too, so lack of gaining and actual weight loss is a very big deal for his survival or not.

I highly suspect the bigger sib who fights him off means he is wanting to use that same nipple, and big sib is not having that! They nurse off of the same nipple throughout the nursing period and will protect it from being shared.

Thanks for your help! The description of how you do it is very useful and is essentially how I've ended up doing it more or less

The 1 ml seems to be working, as she goes on mum after that and drinks for about 20 mins. I'm really reluctant to put 3ml down when I don't know how much she has in her tummy already, and as she will be drinking more directly afterward.

How many feedings per day would you be doing with a kitten of that size?

She put on 5 grams after a half day of that treatment, so it seems to have had an immediate effect, which is encouraging.

You're absolutely right that the other sibling is trying to kick her off its favorite nipple, but I'm taking the big kittens off when they've fed and are sleepy and giving the little one a free 20-30 minutes to feed every couple of hours.

I'll update this thread when I weigh her again tomorrow morning, and hopefully she will have put on even more than 5 grams.

catwoman707 · Mar 6, 2017

KittyMaow said:
Thanks for your help! The description of how you do it is very useful and is essentially how I've ended up doing it more or less The 1 ml seems to be working, as she goes on mum after that and drinks for about 20 mins. I'm really reluctant to put 3ml down when I don't know how much she has in her tummy already, and as she will be drinking more directly afterward.

How many feedings per day would you be doing with a kitten of that size?

She put on 5 grams after a half day of that treatment, so it seems to have had an immediate effect, which is encouraging.

You're absolutely right that the other sibling is trying to kick her off its favorite nipple, but I'm taking the big kittens off when they've fed and are sleepy and giving the little one a free 20-30 minutes to feed every couple of hours.

I'll update this thread when I weigh her again tomorrow morning, and hopefully she will have put on even more than 5 grams.

Glad it helps!

5 grams for 12 hours is great. Aiming for 10 grams per day minimum is good, and what an average kitten should gain daily, with this baby, she is behind somewhat, so should be the minimum gain, must be daily too.

More would be even better, which can happen too depending on how much she is nursing and getting from mom.

Fill 1 ml of water in to the syringe then squirt it in your cupped palm, see how little that really is? She can handle more she just doesn't like to!

Also, most of the time they are latched on to mom they are not actually sucking more than a short time, they seem latched but nap, every now and then take another few sips lol, nap, like that.

So if you syringe her more, she will still go to mom and nurse, but won't overeat either if she has had her fill from you.

You won't overfeed her.

kittymaow · Mar 6, 2017

catwoman707 said:
Glad it helps!

5 grams for 12 hours is great. Aiming for 10 grams per day minimum is good, and what an average kitten should gain daily, with this baby, she is behind somewhat, so should be the minimum gain, must be daily too.

More would be even better, which can happen too depending on how much she is nursing and getting from mom.

Fill 1 ml of water in to the syringe then squirt it in your cupped palm, see how little that really is? She can handle more she just doesn't like to!

Also, most of the time they are latched on to mom they are not actually sucking more than a short time, they seem latched but nap, every now and then take another few sips lol, nap, like that.

So if you syringe her more, she will still go to mom and nurse, but won't overeat either if she has had her fill from you.

You won't overfeed her.

Thanks for the info! How many 3ml supplement feeds per day would you be doing? And how often? I've just supplemented her a little more to top her up to close to 3ml. I'm very excited to weigh her tomorrow, and hoping that the weight gain continues. She really does seem healthy aside from her tininess, she doesn't give in lightly when her bigger sister comes for her.

That's really interesting about how they latch but don't actually suckle all the time.

catwoman707 · Mar 6, 2017

It is interesting! Even more interesting to me is the fact that even brand new born babies choose their nursing spot and will protect and stay with that one through their entire babyhood until weaned. Now that is hard to imagine but it's true!

Ideally, 5 times a day, but 4 is okay too, you can base it on her weight gains too. This will tell you if more may be needed or not

kittymaow · Mar 6, 2017

catwoman707 said:
It is interesting! Even more interesting to me is the fact that even brand new born babies choose their nursing spot and will protect and stay with that one through their entire babyhood until weaned. Now that is hard to imagine but it's true!

Ideally, 5 times a day, but 4 is okay too, you can base it on her weight gains too. This will tell you if more may be needed or not

Okay thank you! I will say though, the bigger female often pushes the little one off *any* spot she takes. So the little one was basically having to wait until the bigger one fell asleep.

This is the smallest litter I've ever had, and it's also the most trouble stricken. I suspect mum might not have enough milk, and I am supplementing the bigger female too. That seemed to help a bit today in terms of settling the scrapping.

catwoman707 · Mar 6, 2017

KittyMaow said:
Okay thank you! I will say though, the bigger female often pushes the little one off *any* spot she takes. So the little one was basically having to wait until the bigger one fell asleep.

This is the smallest litter I've ever had, and it's also the most trouble stricken. I suspect mum might not have enough milk, and I am supplementing the bigger female too. That seemed to help a bit today in terms of settling the scrapping.

Ahah so that may very well be the cause of so much aggression from the big sib, not only doesn't want to share but share ANY of what mom has.....

Usually with a small 3 baby litter that is never an issue, but doesn't mean it doesn't happen now and then either.

If you suspect this then wise to weigh all daily to give you an advantage over it in case they lack weight gains.

Good job!

kittymaow · Mar 6, 2017

catwoman707 said:
Ahah so that may very well be the cause of so much aggression from the big sib, not only doesn't want to share but share ANY of what mom has.....

Usually with a small 3 baby litter that is never an issue, but doesn't mean it doesn't happen now and then either.

If you suspect this then wise to weigh all daily to give you an advantage over it in case they lack weight gains.

Good job!

I have started to track all their weights, the runt put on 5g, the bigger girl put on 8, and the big boy put on 11. So the bigger two are sort of around the acceptable level of weight gain, it's the runt that has the trouble. Having said that, she'd only had one day of supplementation, and that was at the very low rate, so I have high hopes for tomorrow's weights

I just finished giving the runt her supplement, I went with 3ml

catwoman707 · Mar 6, 2017

Excellent

I'm confident you will find the feeding of 3 mls each time will give you the results we want and baby needs.

Anxious to hear how the next weigh in goes

Also, the other 2 you don't want to see gain less than the 8, which I consider fine but at a minimum.

StefanZ · Mar 6, 2017

KittyMaow said:
Thanks for the info! How many 3ml supplement feeds per day would you be doing? And how often? I've just supplemented her a little more to top her up to close to 3ml. I'm very excited to weigh her tomorrow, and hoping that the weight gain continues. She really does seem healthy aside from her tininess, she doesn't give in lightly when her bigger sister comes for her.

That's really interesting about how they latch but don't actually suckle all the time.

The need as such is; 8ml/30grammes a day. So a 90grammes kitten needs about 25 ml a day of kmr or goats milk. It will increase of course with time as the kitten grows.

So, your total feedings at this moment should be about 20ml a day or even slighty more. Momma is always best, so she will suckle some from momma anyway, if there is anything to suckle.

Its first when she is stabilized and you see she gains properly up, you can began to experimentate and try with giving somewhat less, so she gets even more from momma. may be a fine art, but daily weigthing, or even every 12 hours if in crisis, does helps much, esp if caretaker not very experienced.

Its interesting, you are in NZ, which is renown for export of high quality organic goats milk. Yet its difficult for you as private consument to get raw goats milk? I presume you can get these cartooned goats milk. Im not saying cartooned goats milk is better than a good kmr, but raw goats milk of good quality, may be an edge in some situations. It comes from an alive momma too, no? So it contains some antibodies and enzymes which are only in a mommas milk.

kittymaow · Mar 6, 2017

StefanZ said:
The need as such is; 8ml/30grammes a day. So a 90grammes kitten needs about 25 ml a day of kmr or goats milk. It will increase of course with time as the kitten grows.

So, your total feedings at this moment should be about 20ml a day or even slighty more. Momma is always best, so she will suckle some from momma anyway, if there is anything to suckle.

Its first when she is stabilized and you see she gains properly up, you can began to experimentate and try with giving somewhat less, so she gets even more from momma. may be a fine art, but daily weigthing, or even every 12 hours if in crisis, does helps much, esp if caretaker not very experienced.

Its interesting, you are in NZ, which is renown for export of high quality organic goats milk. Yet its difficult for you as private consument to get raw goats milk? I presume you can get these cartooned goats milk. Im not saying cartooned goats milk is better than a good kmr, but raw goats milk of good quality, may be an edge in some situations. It comes from an alive momma too, no? So it contains some antibodies and enzymes which are only in a mommas milk.

NZ is heavily regulated in many respects. Apparently in 2016, they made it pretty much impossible to sell raw goats milk. Sellers have to be specially licensed, yadda yadda, basically they regulated them out of existence. Yes, you can get the carton kind, and I do have some in the fridge. I could put a little in with the formula?

Unfortunately I am definitely not experienced with little ones who need this kind of supplementing, but I'm really hoping to get this right, so I very much appreciate the help!

kittymaow · Mar 7, 2017

88 grams! She was 80 grams at about 7.30 this morning, it is 9pm now, so she has put on eight grams in the last twelve-ish hours

StefanZ · Mar 7, 2017

KittyMaow said:
88 grams! She was 80 grams at about 7.30 this morning, it is 9pm now, so she has put on eight grams in the last twelve-ish hours

Excellent! So the worst crisis seems to be over, we know we are on the right track working as you do. Just to proceed!

You may blend it some of this cartooned goats milk with the kmr, if you wish. Use full fat, ie about 3% if you have several variations. No funny low fat diet variation.

But as you apparently do have a good kmr, this isnt necessary either.

Five Day Old Kitten Weight Lower Than Birth Weight

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