Cats not getting along, younger cat total whirlwind

My wife and I have a cat (5 years) who has grown up to be a great (but antisocial) cat. Very quiet, clean, and she occasionally likes to snuggle or sleep with us.

Recently we adopted a new kitten. For a while we kept him in a separate bathroom to introduce them slowly. But even when we went through the usual steps (moving food bowls, scent swapping, scene swapping, toy distraction, food reinforcement, treat reinforcement, etc), it didn't really matter: The old cat would always hiss and growl and occasionally lunge at the new kitten behind the door / gate / etc. 

Things eventually got a little better, but this was like 1.5 months later. We eventually introduced them to the same space, and for the most part things are okay. But there are also several problems:

1. The new kitten (who is now probably halfway there to being a cat?) is a whirlwind. He's constantly getting into stuff, constantly knocking stuff over, always hyper, always hungry, and super noisy. If you leave him alone or put him in the bathroom, he just howls and howls and howls. He stops eventually but then if you make a noise, he starts up again.

2. The cats won't really leave each other alone. When the new cat gets near the older cat, the older cat starts growling and occasionally hissing. From time to time the new cat will butt-wiggle and lunge at her (playfully), but then that leads to a super noisy cat-fight (100% of the noise coming from the old cat, who is shrieking and meowing, MEOOOW##(*($*#$*(#@$). She doesn't  realize he's just trying to play with her, but she hates it. When he attacks her, he's trying to play. When she attacks him, it's because she feels threatened and wants him to go away.

3. Whenever he attacks her like this I immediately go try to intercept him to put him back in the bathroom for a timeout. He usually knows when I stand up and come for him after he does this, what I'm about to do, so he tries to run and hide under the couch so I can't catch him. 

4. I don't understand why he doesn't just *stop attacking her* if he knows I'm going to put him in the bathroom for a while.

All in all, a little frustrated. I don't know how to get the new cat to jut *calm down* and stop trying to be such an antagonist all the time. I worry they just don't like each other, period, and will never get along. 

It would be nice if I could at least get them to stop lunging at each other, at the very least!

Hi,

What you are experiencing is VERY common.

When you say fight, are they really fighting? Claws out, scratches, fur out, blood?

How do they act after the "fight"? Do either hide? Walk low to the ground? Avoid the other cat? Have their tail down?

It is very common for the existing cat to have the most difficult time in transitioning to the change (new cat). Introductions can take a few weeks up to a year.

The kitten is being a kitten, endless energy. I would suggest stepping up play to try to tire the kitten out. It is hard to tire them out but more play does help. After play feed either treats or a meal. If you see kitten wanting to play with resident try to distract kitten with play.

Anytime the cats are together without an incident it is helpful.

The fact the kitten wants to play with the resident tells me they will get along. And the resident cat must not be too scary to kitten as he comes back for more.

I need to understand the answers to the above questions to have a better picture of the situation.

Keep associating the cats with good things (feed near each other, etc). And try to distract kitten before he bothers resident if possible. Distract with play (best) or calling his name etc.

I am not too worried about what I read. I will wait to hear the answers for more clarity and a better understanding. I will be here for you to help as long as needed so please feel free to ask anything anytime. But I think things will be fine if we put the effort in (which I believe you will since you posted here). Hang in there.

If the two are merely play fighting aggressively it can look like they are fighting. If there's no hissing, growling or shrieking then they are play fighting. My two play fight constantly & it does look bad but it's merely rough.
As CalicosRSpecial says it can take up to a year for them to gel. Good on you for introducing them in the right ways.
Try watching them when they 'fight' & watch what they do, if it very vocal & claws are out then they are definitely fighting if not they are merely play fighting.
Try separating them for periods of time when this happens to give them time apart. If your kitten howls then leave him with you and separate the older cat as it could be that they need a break from each other as the kitten is very full on.

CalicosRSpecial said:

 
Hi,

What you are experiencing is VERY common.

When you say fight, are they really fighting? Claws out, scratches, fur out, blood?

How do they act after the "fight"? Do either hide? Walk low to the ground? Avoid the other cat? Have their tail down?

It is very common for the existing cat to have the most difficult time in transitioning to the change (new cat). Introductions can take a few weeks up to a year.

The kitten is being a kitten, endless energy. I would suggest stepping up play to try to tire the kitten out. It is hard to tire them out but more play does help. After play feed either treats or a meal. If you see kitten wanting to play with resident try to distract kitten with play.

Anytime the cats are together without an incident it is helpful.

The fact the kitten wants to play with the resident tells me they will get along. And the resident cat must not be too scary to kitten as he comes back for more.

I need to understand the answers to the above questions to have a better picture of the situation.

Keep associating the cats with good things (feed near each other, etc). And try to distract kitten before he bothers resident if possible. Distract with play (best) or calling his name etc.

I am not too worried about what I read. I will wait to hear the answers for more clarity and a better understanding. I will be here for you to help as long as needed so please feel free to ask anything anytime. But I think things will be fine if we put the effort in (which I believe you will since you posted here). Hang in there.

Click to expand...

1. Usually fighting, yes, at least I think so. I can't tell if their claws are out, but sometimes there is a little fur flying, no blood from what I can tell. They usually just smack each other in the face repeatedly. The older cat shrieks really loudly, as if in pain. The younger cat will try to "bear-hug" the older one and wrestle her, and this freaks her out. After they "break it up" they put some distance between them and start licking themselves (I assume they're licking areas they were scratched?).

2. I do try to tire him out sometimes by having him chase string, but this takes a really long time. Once he tires out he'll lay on the ground a while, but he recharges in like 10m and he's all ready to go. Or he'll just bug me endlessly for food. Man can that guy eat. I don't think I've ever seen him full. Dude's a black hole. Even if I am eating my own food, he has to jump up on the table and try to stick his face in whatever it is I'm eating.

flojo75 said:

If the two are merely play fighting aggressively it can look like they are fighting. If there's no hissing, growling or shrieking then they are play fighting. My two play fight constantly & it does look bad but it's merely rough.
As CalicosRSpecial says it can take up to a year for them to gel. Good on you for introducing them in the right ways.
Try watching them when they 'fight' & watch what they do, if it very vocal & claws are out then they are definitely fighting if not they are merely play fighting.
Try separating them for periods of time when this happens to give them time apart. If your kitten howls then leave him with you and separate the older cat as it could be that they need a break from each other as the kitten is very full on.

Click to expand...

There's plenty of hissing and shrieking unfortunately. 

Start introducing them very slowly 10 mins at a time about 3 times a day, stand by to split them up if they fight. Often hissing is a way of them both establishing their boundaries, (letting each other know what is acceptable). Persevere with little & often until the hissing subsides. You need to be ready to be in this for the long haul, it could take months before they accept each other. Try & stay positive it will get better, just don't rush things

CatBattle said:

 
1. Usually fighting, yes, at least I think so. I can't tell if their claws are out, but sometimes there is a little fur flying, no blood from what I can tell. They usually just smack each other in the face repeatedly. The older cat shrieks really loudly, as if in pain. The younger cat will try to "bear-hug" the older one and wrestle her, and this freaks her out. After they "break it up" they put some distance between them and start licking themselves (I assume they're licking areas they were scratched?).

2. I do try to tire him out sometimes by having him chase string, but this takes a really long time. Once he tires out he'll lay on the ground a while, but he recharges in like 10m and he's all ready to go. Or he'll just bug me endlessly for food. Man can that guy eat. I don't think I've ever seen him full. Dude's a black hole. Even if I am eating my own food, he has to jump up on the table and try to stick his face in whatever it is I'm eating.

Click to expand...

While I understand where flojo75 is coming from, fur flying is concerning. Introducing cats can be a delicate and, as you are finding out, it requires a lot of patience. The major problem when things become intense is that you will actually go backward ie, they will have a violent fight and will not be be able to co-exist in the same space. I would not suggest putting them together if they are likely to explode into a full on cat fight. Personally? I would separate them again and begin feeding them on either side of the door, Jackson Galaxy has a vid on youtube about this, you start with the food several feet away on either side of the door or baby gate and gradually move them closer. They then associate the other cat with the food. Just search "Jackson Galaxy introducing cats".

Which brings me to your second point. Galaxy talks about cats in the wild stalking and hunting their prey. They need to be incredibly fast but they tire easily over distance. He recommends that you play with your kitten and when it's tired you give it a few minutes to recover and you play again. There are a bunch of great toys which make playing with your kitten a lot of fun, people recommend the Da Bird cat toy or something similar because it's virtually impossible for kittens not to love it.  

Thank you for the answers to the questions.

I understand they retreat and start licking themselves after the fighting. I don't like that fur is flying. Do they hide at all? Do they slink around after the fight? Walk slower and lower to the ground than normal? Are there tails down? Do they avoid each other?

Is it every time they are together that kitten and resident get into it? Or can they coexist in the same room together and sleep, hang out, eat etc?

Are they together all the time without barriers now? Or are they separated at some point for some length of time each day?

We don't want to have them associate each other with negative things. If resident is shrieking then she is at least scared and at worst feeling some pain. The answers to the above questions will help understand the severity of the encounters. The licking could just be comforting themselves.

moorspede is exactly right. There is risk of going a bit backwards which can set us back. We want to maximize the positive encounters (no fear of attack etc) and minimize the negative encounters (even if it is just play by the kitten the resident does not see it that way).

We really want to work on positive associations. Associating with food is very helpful. Distracting sop that kitten does not charge resident (even if it is just play).

The safest route is to follow the reintroduction process that moorspede mentions. BUT you mentioned in your first post that for the "most part things are okay". I hate to take territory away after giving territory BUT if they are fighting a lot then we may have to. I would like to hear answers to the above to better understand the route I would suggest.

Is it always kitten that initiates the fight? Or does resident as well if kitten gets to close etc.

Can kitten be distracted with play or food before fighting/playing with resident? Or vice versa?

If we can reduce the fights and build on the positives (eating together, hanging out together etc) with them in the current situation then I would try that first. BUT there is risk if things get worse. But I don't know how kitten would handle being separated at this point. A lot of question, hopefully the answers to the above questions will help.

On your point about playing, that is a kitten. They never tire really and they eat a lot. BUt try to play as much as possible, moorspede gives good advice about how to play. Da Bird tends to work really well for me. 

Hang in there, we are going to figure this out. We have three knowledgeable people here and I know we can figure this out. And given your commitment I am sure you can do this. It may just take some time but we'll get there.