Help! 2 weeks past the introduction phase. No hissing or growling but constant stalking and fightin

bebop1975

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Feb 20, 2017
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Hi!  This is a long post but I'm two weeks past the introduction phase and need help figuring out what's happening between my two new cats.  There's no hissing/growling, but one is constantly stalking the other:

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I just got two new cats from the local animal shelter, Rosie and Watson.  Rosie is about 9 months and Watson is about a year old.  Rosie came from a hoarding situation with over 20+ cats; she’s under socialized and very shy with humans.  Watson was found on the streets but was very sweet and affectionate at the shelter.  The staff didn’t know much about Watson’s tolerance with other cats because he was only at the shelter for a day, but at the shelter, we brought Watson over to Rosie’s kennel and she came to the front from the back, rubbed against the bars, rolled onto her back and meowed so we took that as a positive sign.  According to the volunteers, it was the only time she ever approached or made a sound.

I brought Rosie home first on Feb. 1 and set her up in a safe room and Watson came home two days later after his neutering.  She hid for a solid three days while he had the run of the house.  On day four, I introduced them by bringing him into her room via my arms and letting her see him.  Realize now this was not a proper slow introduction but as I suspected, she came right out and when I lowered him, she rubbed against him.  He was indifferent but there was no hissing or growling, no outward signs of aggression. I took their meeting as a good sign so I let him come into her room during the day with supervised visits and she always perked up to see him. They eat together every meal, with her being the dominate eater.  She will try to eat his food if he doesn’t eat fast enough but there has never been any aggression.  At night time, I keep her in her room with the door closed and Watson roams free, ending up sleeping with me on my head in the early AM.  It is the only time he is affectionate with me. Turns out he's not a lap cat at all but he does follow me around from room to room non-stop, and he  has never used his claws or teeth on me.

Over the last two weeks, Rosie has come out of her shell and can’t wait to come out of her room.  Every morning, we open the door a crack so she and Watson can sniff noses.  She always tries to nuzzle/rub against him.  It’s become clear that she really wants to be “friends” while he’s indifferent to her affection and is more concerned about what she’s up to, stalking/chasing her non-stop.  At times I think the chasing is reciprocal b/c she’ll chase him but that’s only about 5% of the time.  After a good half hour of chasing/pouncing, she eventually wants to do something else, but he won’t stop and/or it ends up with what appears to be him getting too rough and a yelp is heard.  It’s the only time any sound is made; there has never been any hissing or growling.  When he does ignore her, I immediately give him a treat but she runs over for it too.  We’ve tried distracting him with a toy when he starts his staring, but she runs for the toy too which makes the situation worse.  So the only thing we've been able to do is put him or her in a separate room to cool off.  When I let him back out, he starts fixating again immediately though.

We play with them separately multiple times a day so they can each feel like great prey catchers and to get their energy out, and we try to play with them in the same room with different toys too to try to associate good feelings, but she always ends up wanting to play with what he’s playing with and dominating the game.  When this starts, he backs away towards the edges of the room, becomes aloof and meows, almost sad looking and defeated. So I don't think this technique is working well.

Rosie continually wants to be near him but I think he’s territorial.  When he’s on the 2nd tier of the cat tower sleeping, she jumps up there too but he bites her neck and scruffs her.  This has happened four times now.  When she's on the top tier, he gets all anxious and meowing.  But then yesterday, he went under a play matt and then she went under the matt too, and 10 minutes later, they were both asleep with her head on his thigh.  She was happy as a clam.

Even though Rosie might be under socialized, I think she's a confident kitty who can be dominating.  She dominates playing and eating, and continually wants to be near Watson despite his chasing/attacking.  She's probably used to it coming from a hoarding situation.  I think Watson is an insecure kitty who is used to being on his own, and feels threatened hence the resource guarding (non-stop following me around behavior, the feeling jealous/sad when Rosie dominates playtime, cat tower guarding).  He also can be dominant - the cat tower - and because he's bigger, he can overpower her.  I think I rushed the intro process and I think I need more than one cat tower/vertical space, but here are my questions:

1. Do you think the  chasing/pouncing is playing or fighting?

2. What else I can do to get him to stop stalking/chasing her?  Even though I rushed the intro process, do you think we can recover?

3. Do think there personalities are just not good mixes?

4. Do you think Watson would be happier as an only cat?

I realize it’s only been a little over two weeks and cat introductions can take weeks/months, but I feel they both deserve to be happy kitties sooner than later.  I don’t know if I’m ok trying to force a long cat introduction onto them for weeks/months on end.  I feel that would be selfish on my part.   Any suggestions would be greatly welcomed!

Thanks - Katie

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abyeb

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Are they fixed? A male biting a female's neck is mating behavior. 
 

1CatOverTheLine

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Are they fixed? A male biting a female's neck is mating behavior. 
The OP indicated that he was neutered, but I certainly wouldn't rule cryptorchidism, since, as you point out, this does appear to be mating behaviour.

If you know the Vet who did his surgery, call and ascertain that the surgery was complete.  If you don't know for certain, an ultrasound might be in order to learn whether or not one testicle has been retained, undescended.

.
 
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bebop1975

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Rosie is fixed too. Watson is supposedly fixed as well. I've wondered if the procedure was done correctly as well but he's only done the neck biting/thrusting when she's attempted to jump up on the cat tower when he's on it. I suspect it startles him and/or makes him feel threatened.
 

abyeb

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Definitely check with your vet to see if the Watson's surgery is complete, as 1CatOverTheLine suggested. I have heard of unneutered males trying to mate with spayed females. Their drive can be so strong that they can't tell.
 

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I think your off to a good start and your introduction is going as well as can be expected. A second cat tower would be a good idea though.
 
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bebop1975

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@MingsMongols  Thanks for the support.  It's a relief to hear that you think they're on the right path!  I'll post an image of the cat cat bookshelf I've ordered.  I'll also post a video of them playing/fighting; I think they're playing?  There's never any hissing/growling when they play/fight but there's always a few yelps which I believe are coming from her since he usually pins her down.
 
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bebop1975

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I'm not so concerned about whether Watson has been properly fixed since I'll bring them both to my vet for a full check up.  I'd like to think the Boston Animal Rescue League did a thorough job but always good to have them get familiar with my vet.  

I'm more concerned about whether or not it's possible to integrate them successfully since his stalking is relentless.

Here's a typical play/fight.  Do you think this is playing or fighting?  There's never any hissing or growling when this goes on but she's always the one being pursued and then pinned.  I want to say this is playing - there are definite pauses - but her ears do pin back and there's a definite yelp in there around the 55 second mark.

 

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We are going through an almost identical introduction except ours are two males!  There's no more hissing/growling, and mostly fine, but chases which end up in a wrestling match, and they're stressing me out!  It's like the new cat is trying to be dominant too, but also runs from the resident cat.  I wish they would work it out already so my husband can move back into our bedroom lol.  I will be following your post closely!  Good luck, I hope they calm down soon!
 

mingsmongols

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That's mostly play fighting. Their is an aspect of aggression to it but that's completely normal. Their trying to work things out between themselves and doing a great job of it.
 
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bebop1975

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@chloe92us   Hi Chloe92us!  So I assume your bedroom is your new kitty's safe room?  It sounds like they initially hissed/growled at each other so how how long did your introduction period take before you let them meet face to face?  Do they end up in wrestling matches where you can't tell if it's fighting or playing?  I've been watching youtube videos of cat's play fighting and I still can't tell if mine are playing or fighting...
 
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bebop1975

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@MingsMongols   Again, what a relief to hear that, because this is what goes on for HOURS.  They only time it stops is when they eat and sleep.  When you say they're working things out between themselves, do you mean like who is dominant and submissive in the cat hierarchy?
 

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@chloe92us   Hi Chloe92us!  So I assume your bedroom is your new kitty's safe room?  It sounds like they initially hissed/growled at each other so how how long did your introduction period take before you let them meet face to face?  Do they end up in wrestling matches where you can't tell if it's fighting or playing?  I've been watching youtube videos of cat's play fighting and I still can't tell if mine are playing or fighting...
​Well, my hubby is sleeping in the guest room because the new kitty, Max, is on that side of the house and me, the dogs, and Skye (the resident) are sleeping in the master and the big side of the house.  The guest wing is separated from the main house with a baby gate as well.  We have had Max a full month.  We kept them completely separate for the first week, then they met the second week through the door, etc, and the 3rd week we thought things were cool and let them hang out together.  Things started deteriorating into these chasing matches during the end of week 3, so 2 weeks after the met face to face.  I just saw your video.  To me, it looks like yours are playing, until the point where the ears go back.....that point is what ours looks like BEFORE a chasing incident.  I really don't know what would happen if we allowed them to continue to interact after a chase.  As soon as a chase happens, we break it up as soon as they get together and "roll".  Skye looks like your white cat does in the middle of the video with ears back, stare, and then chase. 
 

chloe92us

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Did your resident cat hiss or growl at the orange one prior to these play episodes?  My cat, Skye, has completely stopped growling or hissing, yet the chasing and pouncing continues and I'm scared it's going to escalate into a full blown fight if I don't keep separating them.  Here is the thread I posted:

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/334407/cat-intros-should-i-keep-separating-when-i-hear-growling

EDIT:  I just re-read your first post, and remembered your cats came into your home at the same time!  I guess the big difference with mine is I just have one newbie.  ;)

That new cat bookshelf is AWESOME!!! Where did you order it from?
 
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mingsmongols

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That is a great bookshelf. I love it! I do indeed mean the hierarchy. It's just a part of figuring out who's boss with some fun play pouncing thrown in.
 
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bebop1975

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@chloe92us   I just read your thread.  I agree we're having parallel situations at this point with what feels like mixed message behavior from our kitties! Your Skye is like my Watson, and your Max is like my Rosie.  One moment they seem to be friends, and another moment, they're chasing and "fighting".  It's reassuring to know this all appears to be common behavior and nothing out of the ordinary.  You seem to be getting good suggestions that are applicable to my situation as well so I'll definitely be following your thread!  How were things with the boys today?  Watson and Rosie made big progress today: chasing only in the AM and then no stalking in the afternoon!  Watson went about his own business.  We'll see how tonight goes.
 
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