SOS cat relationship problems!

nataly

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
13
Purraise
4
Greetings, forum! 

How do i dismantle the confrontation of a grown newcomer cat beeing introduced into a house with two resident cats (one is older, the other is yonger than the newcomer). The cats were not isolated from the start, causing the abovementioned situation. I'd highly appreciate if you help me harmonise this relationship.

As of now, resident cats refuse to eat together with the newcomer cat. Resident cats isolated themselves on the upper level of a lockable room. All possible communications end up with a mutual aggressive demonstrations of power and showdowns.
 

Brian007

Furmate and Famulus
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,751
Purraise
2,071
Location
Edinburgh, Scotland.
Awww   
 

It might just be a question of time and them getting used to an intruder in their midsts.  Your resident cats will need lots of reassurance from you to show them they haven't been usurped  


Try a Feliway diffuser plug, which emits cat-calming pheromones and can be very useful for multi-cat household stress  
 

calicosrspecial

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
4,428
Purraise
2,542
Nataly,

I think you really have to go through the formal introduction process.

Here are some links:

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/the-ultimate-yet-simplified-guide-to-introducing-cats

http://www.catbehaviorassociates.com/a-simple-little-trick-to-use-during-new-cat-introductions/

http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/cat-behavior/introducing-your-cat-new-cat

http://jacksongalaxy.com/2010/10/01/cat-to-cat-introductions/

It can be very shocking for the resident cats since it is their territory being invaded. It can be scary for them. So we want to go through the introduction process and go through each step. I am happy to answer any questions along the way and to help until they are together.

We always want to associate the other cat(s) with good things especially food and to let them know the other cat(s) are not threats to their safety, food, etc. We also want to build their confidence during this time.

Please let me know if you have any questions, I am happy to help. 
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4

nataly

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
13
Purraise
4
A follow-up to the story that is still relevant and unsolved:

The resident cats have set their headquaters in the room that is claimed by the elder resident cat - she never leaves it under any circumstances. If i take her she explicitly expresses herself with the worst cat words imaginable and fearsome growls. Caress is not making the needed effect . She eats upstairs in that room and goes to the toilet there (there's her pot). The younger resident cat goes to the places where the newcomer cat is present but she hisses as she meets her, has no desire to participate in games etc. The newcomer cat behaves correctly at first glance, she doesnt  impose her presence, and if the entrance to the "inner immigration" zone is available she sits quietly and watches, but is she is very responsive to the growling - if any of the cats growl to her she (as quick as lightning) immediately ventures forth with a flurry of strikes... everything's falling and crashing... and... the silence comes as she's quickly - as quickly as she ventures forth - retreating to her small house in the other room. It's been 3 months. The doors were opened, the doors were closed but the real equiliblium is yet to be achieved. Help me, specialists and cat soul conoisseurs !!!
 

Brian007

Furmate and Famulus
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,751
Purraise
2,071
Location
Edinburgh, Scotland.
Hmmmm, I'm afraid this is a problem of having all female cats together.  They are simply not compatible with each other.  Male cats together, or male & female cats together are by far the better choice.  But you have them now, so we'll have to work on it.

Are they all spayed?

Have you got the Feliway cat pheromone plug and spray?  I strongly recommend it for this kind of cat stress.  

I'm not sure what to do but will think on it...  And hope someone with all female cat households can offer you advice.
 

Brian007

Furmate and Famulus
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,751
Purraise
2,071
Location
Edinburgh, Scotland.
You could also try valerian, which is a herb that cats adore and I think might help.  You can buy it in ready made 'cat calming' drops, for the back of the neck, on Amazon.
 

Brian007

Furmate and Famulus
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,751
Purraise
2,071
Location
Edinburgh, Scotland.
Maybe a cat tree or two might help them gain their very own territories, where they would feel secure and they wouldn't have to interact face to face, on the ground.  They could sit in their ivory towers, looking down. 
 

foxden

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
965
Purraise
909
Location
Delaware, USA
N nataly
I used to have 3 spayed females who were introduced as adults.

Long story, shortened-- Kiki was a foster with her 6 kittens. So, the 2 resident cats had many weeks of knowing Kiki and her family were on the other side of the door.

After the kittens went out to the adoption center, then the introductions started.

In the end, the 3 females co-existed, but were never best friends

I think you need to drop back to some of the steps and feeding on both sides of a door. Some people use screen doors to get them used to each other.

I think one of the kitties ended up on prozac for a little while for stress, but they all lived together for 8 or so years before the oldest (grumpiest) kitty crossed the bridge.

We did not have several segregated areas in the house for the three cats, and they shared a feeding area (bowls in their own places).

Litter boxes were in different places in the basement, and there was a litter box in the powder room for several months (time-out room)

I guess we were super lucky compared to the stories I read here.
 

foxden

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
965
Purraise
909
Location
Delaware, USA
N nataly
By the way, I've always had female cats in my adult life. The first one was a 6-7 month old stray, who lived to be almost 20, but I've stayed with female cats.

I assumed they wouldn't spray, and in my experience, they have not. Again, it appears that I've been lucky.
 

calicosrspecial

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
4,428
Purraise
2,542
Nataly,

I highly recommend that we go through the formal introduction process. Keeping the newcomer totally separated from the resident cats and to slowing introduce them using food first through scent, then eventually through site, then meeting. The whole time trying to associate them with good things especially food. The more they can sense the other cat and there is not attack or negative encounter the more accepting they should be.

Cats are territorial and can become defensive when an intruder comes into their territory. They don't know what risk the newcomer presents. So they tend to warn them and not accept them. The more confident cat the faster they usually accept.

It sounds like the newcomer is a good cat and with the correct process should be accepting. It is usually the resident cats that have the most difficult transition to sharing their territory. Your oldest is having the most difficult time sadly. She has retreated into a room. She has lost territory and therefore confidence. Please don't make her leave, we need to make her have the confidence that she wants to leave.

Please try to build their confidence. We do that through play, food, height and love. Please step up play and after play feed either treats or a meal. Give the cats places to go high (cat trees, window perches, etc). height builds confidence. Also if possible add some cat scratching posts so they can "own" one with their scent on it. And please do all you can to let them know tey are loved. Be as calm and confident around them as possible as cats take on our emotions.

We'll want to do some scent swapping at some point. That is where we get an old shirt and have it around when we are around the other cat so that they can associate the other cat's scent with good things (like food,height, love, etc).

I cannot stress how important it is to go through the formal introduction process. I am happy to help you every step of the way. We need to associate the cats with good things and let them know they are not at risk of being hurt by the other cat(s).  
 

Brian007

Furmate and Famulus
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,751
Purraise
2,071
Location
Edinburgh, Scotland.
For the scent swapping thing that @CalicosRSpecial  mentioned, you could try brushing them all with the same brush:  firstly newibe - youngest resident - newbie again - old resident - then newbie again (newbie seems to have the better end of this deal, so vamp up the treats for your two resident cats to compensate).  
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12

nataly

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
13
Purraise
4
It's been three months since this problematic relationship is going on. In the beggining the newcomer cat was isolated and humble and the resident cats were calm and confident. When the newcomer cat started expanding her presence territory, the resident cats started hissing at her. The newcomer cat, in her turn, responded with attacks. All the scents are in full access for both sides. The newcomer cat fully adaptated, feels very confident and attacks the elder resident cat with slightest possibility (the younger resident cat tries to defend her).  The elder resident cat does not feel free even in her two rooms that were granted to her and were closed for the newcomer cat after the unfortunate adaptation period. The attacks are becoming more frequent. If it was possible to involve them into games before, now its not the time for that.  Since the entrance to the room is closed for the newcomer, now she is repeatedly using random moments to invade the room with agressive attacks. The newcomer cat is probably making her agressive moves because of the resident cat's constant fear. Now the elder resident cat is constantly stressed, in a state of agressive fear even beeing in her safe territory. Her headquaters are on the second floor in one of the rooms, on the highest point possible. My sleeping place is in the same room with the resident cats and i am not sure that this fact has positive influence on the situation. I do not know what steps can i take at this stage of our relationship. 
 

calicosrspecial

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
4,428
Purraise
2,542
I highly suggest we keep them totally separated. And go through the formal introduction process. During that we need to build the elder resident cat's confidence and reduce her stress and make her feel more secure again. Then work on associating the newcomer with good things.

So we have to systematically work through this. First build elder resident cat's confidence and security. In the safe room. Play, food, height and love (I can describe each area in more detail if you like). Newcomer can't have access to her or that room. Once she is more secure and confident then we need to feed on each side of the door and follow the formal introduction process. 

Also, please be as calm and confident around the elder resident cat. Cats can take on our emotions so the more confident we are the more they are.

Don't worry, I think this situation is very doable and workable. But we have to go through it very deliberately.  It will take some time and there will be ups and downs. If the elder resident is not confident and acts like prey the newcomer will be more likely to attack. But if she is confident it is less likely she will be attacked. And we need to maximize the positive encounters (no fear by elder resident) and minimize the negative encounters.

We'll be here with you every step of the way. Please ask anything anytime, we are here for you.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14

nataly

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
13
Purraise
4
Thank you for your concern and support, it means so much to me... after the next, most recent attack i feel very foolish and sad... I very much understand that human emotions always have an influence on cat behavior. Today i decided to swap their places, to be more precise i locked the new cat in my bedroom where the residents were previously (the safe zone of the old resident from my previous post) and the hall next to the bedroom room and bathroom became available for residents. Oh...when i came back... i was only greeted by a younger resident cat in the anteroom and in the center of the hall there was my elder resident cat and she wasn't going to take a single step in my direction, steadily hearing out my delights in her address. But when i slightly opened the door to the bedroom the prisoner tore herself away, like the wind... and in the center of the bed there laid a fan-shaped array of poop and it was all sprinkled with urine. I understood that swapping places was not the most fortunate decision... i lost self-control as i yelled indignantly for a couple of minutes.

It appears to me the new cat's night isolation does not make straits any better on the other hand, earlier, the open access actually caused the confrontation. Could you please describe the zones in details, as you mentioned in your previous post? And what should i do with the elder resident cat that does not trust me anymore and if she even plays at all she would just wave her hand a couple of times, look at me - "Stop messing around in times of war, that's stupid" - but she runs readily when i carry food. I will try to secure her (the elder resident) safety  - should i feed them at both sides of a closed door?

Do i get it right? I have no idea how do i associate them with good things (i do not understand what that means. does that mean mutual positive experience?)...

I tried stroking them simultaneously with both hands, as you understand there's a permissible limit to that - hissing and slapping followed... I rely on your help. Nataly.
 

Brian007

Furmate and Famulus
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
1,751
Purraise
2,071
Location
Edinburgh, Scotland.
Alongside the formal introduction process that @CalicosRSpecial  is helping with, look into other aids: 







  Most things in life can be bought from Amazon or eBay.  
 

calicosrspecial

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
4,428
Purraise
2,542
HI Nataly,

Please do not feel foolish or sad. We'll work through this.

We need to keep them completely separated for now. Start feeding on each side of the closed door. The resident cats on one side the new cat on the other. I always have the resident cats in the largest area, the area they are most comfortable in.  

We don't want to rush through this.

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-successfully-introduce-cats-the-ultimate-guide

http://www.catbehaviorassociates.com/a-simple-little-trick-to-use-during-new-cat-introductions/

http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/cat-behavior/introducing-your-cat-new-cat

http://jacksongalaxy.com/2010/10/01/cat-to-cat-introductions/

Thew new cat went on the bed because the new cat was feeling very insecure, the new cat didn't feel comfortable and needed to "mark" and "own" that new territory.

During the separation I would like you to work on building each cat's confidence. The more confident they are the more accepting they will be. We build confidence through play, food, height and love. Please play with them separately. Use the toy and make the toy act like how prey would act. Let the cat pounce. It is all about getting them to feel like they are doing what they are built to do Hunt, Capture, Kill, Eat. Just like in the wild. After play then feed treats or a meal. Keep feeding on each side of the door. ( we want the other cat(s) scent around when they are doing something good (eating). That is the positive association we mention.  Have cat trees so that the cats can go up in the world (height builds confidence) and so they can "own" something. Also, if possible add some scratching posts. Again for them to get their scent on and to feel ownership of the territory. Finally make sure they all know you love them. But please do not put yourself at risk of being injured, bitten or scratched in any way. Give eye kisses where you close your eyes to the cats for 4 seconds or so. Always be as calm and confident around them. We have to build their confidence before they can be together in person without a barrier.

Positive association is used by eating/food with the other cat's scent around and also to feel safe and secure with the other cat's scent around. Not scent swapping at this point just between a closed door for now.

So please feed on each side of the door for now (start a few feet away and slowing move it closer each day) If they don't eat then move it back to a place they will eat. During this time we want to build their confidence through play, food, height and love. If you sense they are more confident after a week or two then we can move to the next step. It is a process and it does take some time. We just have to go through this systematically.

Also please make sure you clean your bedding with the proper cleaning products. http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-remove-cat-urine

Please let me know if that makes sense. I hope I answered your questions. Please ask any questions for clarification. Hang in there. Cat introductions take from a month to a year sometimes. It doesn't happen over night but with the proper process it should work. We'll be here for you every step of the way.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17

nataly

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
13
Purraise
4
Thank you so much for the answer! I wanna say it right away - i am absolutely mindful of my love, joy and in consent with what they do - and i express that freely. I always had surprisingly balanced, courageous, free animals -  i took them for a walk with no leads or leashes, took subway and public transport. And i never had any problems with that. The cats living with me now were not adapted to such broad travelling and leisure perspectives with me. Therefore, i understand that they were astonished with the new cat that is so different from them in so many ways. Years from now a janitor let her into the basement and when next spring we found out she's pregnant, i started helping her growing her kittens. Then i took the kittens and a man living outside the city took the cat herself. Two weeks later i was interested in how her life's going there and asked for a visit and what i saw there made me immediately take her away (dogs, cat driven into the corner under the ceiling)...Then i gave her to my mother's house, she was still alive back then. After her death in December, the cat ended up in my house, again (the younger resident cat is her child that is now allied with an elder resident cat. they hiss and feel hostages in their own home because of a more active, strong and confident living being). I openly express my sympathy to the new cat, but she catches it when i start feeling displeasure. And she hides in a secluded corner on her own. The closed door - a wonderful example of your counsel - precisely, the food on each side of the door. They readily venture to their feeding plates and the elder resident cat is a bit more joyful. But the younger one, as she is forced to be locked lost contact with her mother (the newcomer cat) completely. She hisses and tries to swipe her paws as she enters the kitchen (when the newcomer is there). Yesterday, when me and a friend of mine were in the bedroom and the door was't shut tight, we were followed by this spirit of the forest with a tail and when we both caressed the elder resident cat telling her it is ok, the spring has come, the newcomer cat sprinted from our backs fast as the wind and seized the comforted poor fellow. My hand was involuntarily involved in this showdown. And this is the first attack of such a sort as is the first injury i took for the whole introduction period. Every single cat, whatever condition they were in never scratched or bit me, though they convincingly told me some explicit cat words. This is a short list of dramatic and complicated situations that did not strip the newcomer cat from her unbelievable benevolence (with no ingratiation) - she can gain everyone's favor. A self sufficient being. Anyone who gets in contact wants to gain her favor in return. This is the essence of the matter for the difference, as i understand it, of the life stories of the cats by the each sides of the closed door. My cat's need of self-affirmation was child's play compared to what the wonderful newcomer cat learned. Do i get it right, i should play with all three as i take the role of a game master and guarantee safety for each and every participant? I played separately, on both territories (resident's and newcomer's). Concerning the non-verbal expression of unity and love - i used to do it earlier and i do it now - to each and every cat. I have a trusting relationship with animals, this is an important factor, but in this situation, this is insufficient to harmonize cat's relationship. Newcomer strive for the self-affirmation comes into conflict with the resident's pretension level. They have an opportunity to run walk and sit on different heights, i have stairs to the second floor. isn't it enough from your point of view?)
 

calicosrspecial

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
4,428
Purraise
2,542
Hi Nataly,

It is great that they have the ability to go up in the world. Height really helps build confidence. Not only are different levels and heights could for exercise it is good for confidence. SO please keep encouraging them to go high in the world (not low under things etc).

Play also builds confidence. So please keep playing with them separately. After play feed either treats or a meal. This replicates the instinct of Hunt, Capture, Kill Eat. It helps them build their confidence. 

A more confident cat is more likely to accept other cats (not fear them) and therefore less likely to attack or be attacked (act like prey). 

There are two keys in introductions. Associating each other with something good (food typically) and building their confidence. When they get comfortable that the other cat is not a threat then we are closer to the goal of them living together harmoniously. 

Please also keep feeding on each side of the closed door. That is getting them to associate the other cat with good stuff (food).

Anytime they can smell each other and there is no threat no fear it builds their confidence and allows them to be more accepting.

The more positive encounters (through smell at first) the more trust between the two will be built. We want to maximize these positive encounters and minimize any negative encounters.

At some point we'll want them to have visual exposure (with a screen barrier, baby gates) where they can physically get to each other. Then we will work on continuing to associate with good things (food) and distracting them (with play etc) to again build trust between them (maximize positive encounters and interactions).

Finally please keep up letting them see the love you have for them. Your love for them will help build their confidence. But please make sure you do not put yourself at risk of being hurt in any way.

A combination of associating each other with good things (food especially), maximizing positive encounters and minimizing negative encounters and building their confidence should over time help them to integrate in the household. It is a process and we need to take it slow. Step by step. We want them to be at a point where when they do meet face to face they think to themselves "I know that cat, that cat is nice, that cat will not hurt me". When they don't fear anymore they get along. But we have to work to get to that point and it takes time.

At some point we'll want to do some scent swapping (getting the other cat scent on an old shirt and have that scent around while the other cat is enjoying him or herself (relaxing, sleeping, eating). We always do through scent first them move to sight with barriers then eventually to face to face meeting weeks or months down the road depending on how they are doing.

You obviously love the cats and I know you can make this work. Just please be patient and feel free to ask anything anytime. I am happy to help and clarify steps when needed.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20

nataly

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
13
Purraise
4
Hello and thank you people for your answers. So we live by each side of the door. But when door is not tightly shut and the newcomer cat cautiosly enters the territory of the souveregn state while nobody sees her and suddenly sees my facial expression (oh so there you are), she immediately flees to her territory. The eat with much interest by each side of the door. The newcomer cat sniffs the litter boxes i wash. If those two fools of the residents didnt hiss at her she might tolerate them. But as a reward for hissing she gently slaps the younger one with a paw. The residents unified against the newcomer - they dont even sleep with me in my bed as they used to. Im running foolishly around with toys and they just watch me and follow my movements with their heads and noone's chasing. Might it be i'm not doing it intersetingly enough? I believe their difference is so huge that it possibly is unsurpassable. I do not know if you had the cases of "unsurpassable obstacles" in your practise. I am grateful for the answer. You are supporting my hope and faith. Thank you.
 
Top