Chronic Diarrhea in our 6 month persian

MissPersian said:

 
A PCR panel is one of the next steps. However, it should be 3 weeks until after the last antibiotic was given. So there's another 2 weeks until that can possibly happen.

This weekend was pretty OK for her. Nothing liquidy. Some really exceptional stools. There was one yogurt-looking stool, but I think she got into the other cat's food for that one. One minor explosion with little scattered bits, but almost entirely all litter box contained. Had to clean her feet only once this whole weekend. Didn't really have to clean any parts of the floor that much.

I'm also suspecting Tritrichomonas. Symptoms:

The main symptom is a longstanding bout of loose smelly stools

=YES.

sometimes mixed with blood or mucus.

=YES

Cats may have difficulty passing the loose stools and strain to empty the bowels.

= YES

Stool may leak out of the anus  and cause redness and pain around the area.

= YES

Purebred?

= YES

Came from a Cattery

= YES

increased frequency of defecation

= YES

semi-formed to liquid faeces

= YES

Gaining weight and otherwise healthy

= YES

The things that make me feel better about Tritrichomonas:  A) it almost always goes away on its own, B) it's very much curable, and C) it doesn't significantly affect weight gain and growth.

I am however, looking forward to running a PCR test. If she's shown to be a carrier, I think the breeder needs to be aware of this, and hopefully help out with the costs to remedy it. The cat does have a health guarantee. 

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The symptoms go away - -not the protozoa. Once infected a cat is for life unless they are part of the 67% that ronidazole works on. Research is being done to find a more effective and safer medicine. Try searching for The Owners Guide to Tfoetus Infection by Jody Gookin, DVM. 

She is the leading expert on this problem. It may be some help.

She's been much more consistent for the past 7 days.

Poop has been mostly great. She doesn't go to the bathroom as much anymore and eats a ton. I only had to clean the side of the litter box twice in the past 6 days. I had to clean one paw off, but that was 6 days ago. I also did find a yogurt stool behind the washer just a little bit ago. That's her favorite "sneaky" spot, but she's only going there because there's still something not right.

She's being dropped off at the vet before I leave tomorrow. She'll stay at their "Cat Hotel" for a few days to make sure, then my roommate may go pick her up before I get back. So she'll be in good hands.

Proviable DC and S. Boulardii, along with hard prescription food, and she's definitely improving. This is the longest I've seen her go without any major issues, so I think she's clearly recovering. She doesn't lick her butt much more, either. But it's not all back to normal yet, but making it so much easier for us to deal with as humans!

Instead of pooping 8-10 times a day, it's now 2-3 times a day. 

She's a princess cat. Sits on my lap every chance she gets and purrs violently. She does that non-stop now, which is another great sign of her health improvement.






Her eyes need cleaning, so I'm off to do that now. Thought I'd give an update!

Yay, there is light at the end of the tunnel!

Mao still has persistant diaherea.

PCR Panel came back today. She tested positive for two things:

1) Coronavirus. From what I've been reading online, this isn't surprising and it seems like most cats test positive for this. She is going in later today to see if there are other complications (FIP), but I hope we are in the clear on this.

2) Giardia. Surprising, as the previous antibiotics she was on should have cured this. Panacure was only given for 5 days though, and it should be given for 10 days to treat giardia. She she will go through the full treatment on this

So today, she will go in to get checked for 1) to make sure that it's just a virus, and that it hasn't turned into FIP. She will also get weighed and begin Panacure (fenbendazole).

Our other cat's stool has started to turn a little soft in sections. So I'm going to recommend to the vet that since fenbendazole is a very safe antibiotic that BOTH cats should undergo that treatment.

So, good news on the PCR Panel. We know what's wrong, and we know how to treat it. Making sure the Coronavirus hasn't evolved to FIV (and if THAT's what's causing the symptoms) is really the only other thing to answer, but otherwise, it should all be downhill from here.

T. Foetus: NEGATIVE

Thoughts?

Got back from the vet for an FIP exam.

Great news...vet cannot find a trace of it, wet or dry.

1) Tempurature taken from anus was low.

2) No growth felt by stomach or chest area

3) Breathing was completely normal

4) Weight and health looked great

5) Heartbeat was spot-on.

Just a healthy cat.

The vet said FIP is LIKELY not in our cards.

Both cats are being treated for Giardia by Panacure. We will start washing water dishes once a day. We've already cleaned out the liter boxes with fresh litter. We were told no reason to separate them. Live life as normal, just clean all the wet areas. Wipe up poop right away.

The vet made it sound like Giardia wasn't easy to treat. Is this really true? I feel like i've recieved a blessing being that it's not FIP or T. Foetus. 

MissPersian said:

 
Got back from the vet for an FIP exam.

Great news...vet cannot find a trace of it, wet or dry.

1) Tempurature taken from anus was low.

2) No growth felt by stomach or chest area

3) Breathing was completely normal

4) Weight and health looked great

5) Heartbeat was spot-on.

Just a healthy cat.

The vet said FIP is LIKELY not in our cards.

Both cats are being treated for Giardia by Panacure. We will start washing water dishes once a day. We've already cleaned out the liter boxes with fresh litter. We were told no reason to separate them. Live life as normal, just clean all the wet areas. Wipe up poop right away.

The vet made it sound like Giardia wasn't easy to treat. Is this really true? I feel like i've recieved a blessing being that it's not FIP or T. Foetus. 

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Giardia is very treatable, it may take a little time but its totally cureable. 

Thanks for that. I didn't read anything "devastating" about Giardia. I would was really devastated about hearing about FIP. FIP = RIP. I was also near devastated about hearing about T. Foetus, even the vet had inclinations of that.

I guess with Panacure they both will go 5 days of treatment, and then 3 weeks off, then 3 more days of treatment. That's the first step.

The light is bright at the end of the tunnel. 

After 7 days of Panacure, we saw no change with her diarrhea in anyway. I'm going to rule out Fenbendazole from being effective. Awhile back, before the Giardia diagnosis, Mao was on Flagyl (Metronidazole) for about 5-7 days, without any significant effect from that, either. 

I'm going to let the vet know that it's time to take a "no holds bar" approach with her. As in, move "getting her better ASAP" to be prioritized over "complete safety". I'm sure this is the right choice, because Mao is certainly very unhappy, stressed, and in discomfort, and it's been months. I can't imagine that she's getting great sleep. I also miss her when it comes to her being affectionate and curling up with my in bed, or on the couch, so emotionally she's not well. For the past month, she will remain in certain places that have quick access to the liter box, and it's very sad. She'll still play, sprint, and run, but it just doesn't happen very often at all for her. Not to speak her diet is a rollercoaster. 

I'm not even going to go into how it is for us humans...the sleep we lose, the amount of paper towels and cleaning supplies that gets used, the time it takes to clean both her and the house, etc.

I want her on Secnidazole. I would highly consider Ronidazole if that didn't work, either. Are there any other effective treatments for Giardia?

I know a PCR is very highly effective in testing for Giardia. Is there another test that's much cheaper that has a VERY high confidence in detecting Giardia for when the time comes to retest?

MissPersian said:

 

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Hi

Expensive can be relative but a PCR test should run under $100 and no other test works like a PCR test, they can do a complete stool panel and PCR tests are basically 100% definitive, its a form of DNA testing.  Given how long your cat  has been ill, i would want a PCR test.  You could also do an ELISA test but i would totally skip the flotation test at this point.

See these links for other treatments.

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/giardia-in-cats

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2122&aid=738

I've read that the ELISA test is good for diagnonis of Giardia, and shouldn't be used to see if Giardia is still there to do some lingering things that will set off the test.

Anyhow, There appears to be 4 primary drugs that will treat Giardia.

* Furox (haven't tried)

* Flagyl (no significant effect)

* Albendazole (haven't tried)

* Panacur (no effect)

I'm assuming the vet will move to one that we haven't tried yet.

I've also read that Secnidazole and Ronidazole have worked.

The vet called and said that the next step is another antibiotic. It's one they have to be compounded, so it's going to come from the east coast. 

I didn't catch the name of it, but it's something she's going to put Mao on starting later next week. All I remember is that it's something that gets taken twice a day, and could even be up to a full month. She said it's similar to Flagyl.

The good news is that will give me time to complete the first phase of the Enzyme treatment, which I've already started her on.

Did a deep clean on the house today. Threw away cat stuff, replaced rugs, and bleached many areas. Also gave her another bath.

She's on my lap purring right now.

On the 3rd day of the enzyme treatment, and I'm seeing significant success thus far. Since I've started the protocol:

1) She has significantly less bowel movements. This may be due to the enzyme treatment, or it could be due to stopping free range feeding which we have been doing.

2) Stool is significantly more formed. Not there yet, but definitely improvement.

3) Significantly less accidents outside the litter box. I think I've only cleaned up a 2-3 tiny "drip" spots in the past couple days, as opposed to the usual 20 medium-large spots.

4) Significantly better mood. Instead of camping on her cat-tree for most of the time, she's on my lap and/or follows me around much more. This may because of stopping free range feeding, but it could also be because she simply just feels better.

Got about 5 more days of the first phase of the protocol.

The compounding pharmacy is supposed to call me on Monday or Tuesday for payment and a shipping address for the antibiotics. I'm at the point where I'm not sure to go ahead and order the month supply of them (and just delay the anti-biotic treatment until the protocol is completed) or simply just delaying ordering of the antibiotics until I complete this protocol.Would hate to give her antibiotics if this actually works to clear it up.

I haven't informed my vet of the enzyme treatment. I figure I'd rather ask for forgiveness rather than permission.

So far, so good. No accidents yesterday nor last night, nor this morning.

She seems to be getting right back to her normal self. 

I called my Vet and had her delay/cancel the anti-biotics. She wasn't in the office, but she will be calling me Wednesday to discuss. She may not be aware of the enzyme treatment.

You have gorgeous babies!  So glad to hear the improvement.  I know how hard it is to have one with the poopy butt all the time, and so miserable for the kitty!

The fenbendazole treatment needs to be repeated in a week. We dealt with it in my cattery once - not so fun! Because of common litter boxes I treated even those with no symptoms. My protocol was dosing everyone (even our dog) and removing all but one litter box per floor of my house, which was emptied, washed, bleached and dried daily. I also bathed everyone frequently to remove the cysts from the fur and prevent reinfection. That was the longest month of my life! As a precaution we installed several water filters that filter cysts out since we have well water.

Sorry I've missed the updates on this thread.  Completely agree, your persians are precious.    I'm sure you are exhausted from all the human work but fingers crossed you're making progress with the new antibiotic and, as you said, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.    Will check back for updates, best of luck! 

P.S.  i would seriously take the advice from poisepurrs. 

Thanks everyone. Lynda, yep, we plan to continue the Panacur on both cats, even though zero effects were realized from the treatment. We're already quite aware of the cleaning protocols as well. Also, aside from bleach, a Quaternary Ammonium product can be used as well. 

Another day goes by, and with perfection. No accidents, normal poop, normal pooping occurrences, great behavior, and great appetite. In-fact, I don't remember the last time she's gone this long being completely normal, it may be the first ever...

The Enzyme treatment is a miracle and I cannot recommend it enough at this point for giardia treatment. Mao is on her 5 day of the protocol. She has 3 more days to go, until she gets a 10 day break from the Enzymes to allow any cysts to hatch. During this time, that puts her in the window to finish the three days of Panacur treatment. Following that, she will go back on Enzymes for 7 more days. She should be good as gold at that point!

Try this treatment before resorting to antibiotics. I'm excited to inform my vet tomorrow on this treatment that she may/may not be aware of. I'm also really glad that I cancelled the 30-day anti-biotic treatment that she was about to prescribe.

I just suggested the bleach because it is effective and inexpensive. I know there have been some who have good results using the enzyme protocol for giardia. I hope it does work well for you.  I learned about it several years after we had treated or I would have tried it, but I don't think it was known at the time. Hugs to those beautiful babies!

Bleach is great for certain objects and floors, for sure.

You can also use this on things that you may be afraid to use bleach on, which is very cheap as well. I paid $10 for a big jug at Home Depot, and this kills Giardia as well:

http://www.zepcommercial.com/product/Zep-Antibacterial-Disinfectant-Cleaner-with-Lemon

Another great day of perfection from Mao. She's doing great. She has 1-2 bowel movements per day, as opposed to 10. Poop is ranging from "mediocre" to "100% perfect", with most being "100% perfect". Gone is the liquid.

So really good consistent results for 5.5 days now, the longest ever of normal-ness. Would be interesting to see if the vet still wants to put her on the new anti-biotics or not.

There's not a lot of scientific studies regarding the enzymes and Giardia (zero?). Dr. Holve has stated that the enzymes "digest" the Giardia as long as the cat's stomach is empty. I'm curious as the science of how enzymes actually do that, as opposed to an anti-biotic. 

Either way, it's working for us so far, but I want to be sure that we're killing the cause, not just curing the symptoms. 

Well, the past 3 days were not so great. We're back to poop hikes and poop cleaning. We haven't seen anything as bad as it used to be, but she's still not quite right.

The soft stool started again towards the end of the Enzyme treatment (the last 1.5 days).

The first 6 days or so were magnificent. 

I called the vet and begun the anti-biotic compounding. Looks like she's getting Tylosin soon, which doesn't seem to be something that treats giardia directly, but more for

AFAIK, Tylosin is used for IBD, and it's something that some cats take for a long, long time. I hope that's not the vet's way of giving up....

I'm not following this thread closely, but did you try the s boulardii? Seriously, there is good science behind it that shows it works very quickly to clear up diarrhea, and it can be effective in treating giardia and T. Foetus. Homecooked or raw food really does amazing things for IBD cats as well. If this was my cat I'd have her on s boulardii and either homecooked or raw using EZcomplete, or Rad Cat if you want to go with something commercially available.