Chronic Diarrhea in our 6 month persian

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misspersian

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Hi Candice,

I've done basic food diets to the Persian on the right side of the photo. She had a bout when we got her too, but it only lasted 3-4 weeks. We tried a basic diet of boiled chicken only for several days. It seemed to have made questionable differences. Yes, it changed her poop, slightly, but it still didn't look right or healthy. The biggest difference for her was simply just canned prescription food. After that was finally fed to her, the very next day was saw superb poop, and from that point on, we set her on a great diet. She's now 13 months old, and her stomach is a machine and can/will eat anything and still provide the firmest poops ever. :)

Long story short, I will actually try a bland diet for the calico person before going forward with a PCR test. 
 
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neely

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It's the young Calico on the left that is having issues.
They are absolutely precious and I can fully understand why you are trying so hard to find the right diet for your calico baby.  What are their names?  My best wishes and special thoughts go out to you.
 
 

stephanietx

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Since she is so young, I am going to go with food intolerance. Talk to the vet about putting her on some prescription food such as Royal Canin Gastro HE.  That might help.  I have a boy on that.  He started about 8-9 mos of age having soft poops and runny stools. Ruled out all the parasites and went for the sensitive tummy route. Found out he can't tolerate a grain free diet, so we've added in the Rx food and the right balance keeps his stools in check.
 
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misspersian

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Thanks.

She hasn't really improved (good news, she hasn't gotten worse) and I'm going to talk to the vet today to stop the anti-biotics since she's been on them for 6 days. If it was aiming to kill something, it's probably already killed by now!

The vet asked me to pick up a special de-wormer. I'll let you guys know what it is today.

Here's my game-plan:

1) I'm going to talk to the vet about also trying a different pro-biotic rather than the Proviable DC stuff (which again, I've never seen work for any of my Persians). I may also think about finding S boulardii, since the link above builds up a great case for using it. The vet mentioned that to also about another brand they carry: Fortiflora which I may try first before the OTC S boulardii.

2) The breeder said that dry food is easier on the stomach than wet food. Most places, including my vet, disagrees with this statement. However, "anything" is possible and she's been breeding these cats for her whole life, she she does have experience in this. We want to eventually get her on dry food because it's much easier for Persians to eat this type of food, so maybe we will try only feeding her the GI dry food for a couple days to see what that does.

3) Perhaps she is grain-free intolerant. Perhaps we should feed her some dry food that has grain in it. HOWEVER, we did feed her Fancy Feast Pate food a couple months ago, and it didn't solve the diarrhea, and that's not grain-free....so.....

4) Starting her out with boiled chicken diet for a few days, then working in a carb (peas), then graduating her to a GI food may be beneficial.

6) The breeder recommends Doxycyline as an anti-biotic because it has anti-inflammatory propoerties. I will ask this to the vet.

7) I'm going to delay a PCR test for now until I've exhausted the options above.

The above are in no specific order. Just other things that should/could be done before undergoing a $230 PCR test. 
 

missmimz

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Here's my game-plan:

1) I'm going to talk to the vet about also trying a different pro-biotic rather than the Proviable DC stuff (which again, I've never seen work for any of my Persians). I may also think about finding S boulardii, since the link above builds up a great case for using it. The vet mentioned that to also about another brand they carry: Fortiflora which I may try first before the OTC S boulardii.
Fortiflora isn't even comparable to s. boulardii, they aren't even the category. Fortiflora is a terrible probiotic. For whatever reason most vets don't know this. It has animal digest in it, so its tastey to cats, but in terms of probiotics its useless. I also just want to mention that even though your breeder might be a good breeder, she probably isn't that well versed on feline nutrition. My vet, that is more educated on feline nutrition than most, says without a doubt wet food is easier to digest for cats. Remember, cats are obligate carnivores, they have no nutritional need for ANY veggies, no reason or need to add peas to anything. You might at least try a high quality wet food, or if you get desperate look into raw. I'm a huge advocate for raw feeding. Rad Cat is available in a lot of places and it's amazing food. 
 
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misspersian

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Thanks. 

I picked up some S. Boulardii. I've studied the guide, and I'm ready to administer it.

It seems that you can use S. Boulardii and a bacterial probiotic such as proviable. I'll still plan to serve both of them when it's in the maintenance phase. For the loading phase (2 days), I'm going to skip on the bacterial probiatics and just stick to S. Boulardii.

I'm still waiting on my vet to call. She gave me 5 syringes of Panacure to administer to her. I plan to NOT do this for another few days because I want to see what happens with the stool after the anti-biotics have stopped for a couple days. I'm assuming that I should carry forward with the Panacure because it's another thing to rule out, but I'm wondering if I can also carry forward with the S. Boulardii at the same time?

I'm still waiting to know if I can stop the anti-biotics, because I would definitely like to. It seems like there's enough evidence now that her poop gets significantly better when the antibiotics wear off the next day before re-administering.

That's enough for me to think that it should stop being used. Here's a day in the life with the anti-biotics.

I do agree about the breeder. She's totally wonderful, but it's news to me that hard food is better than wet food for sensitive stomachs. However with that said, it's my experience that Persians eat dry food much, much better than the wet food. With wet food, you need to hang around while they eat and re-spoon it for them.
 
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missmimz

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Thanks. 

I picked up some S. Boulardii. I've studied the guide, and I'm ready to administer it.

It seems that you can use S. Boulardii and a bacterial probiotic such as proviable. I'll still plan to serve both of them when it's in the maintenance phase.

I'm still waiting on my vet to call. She gave me some Panacure to administer to her. I plan to NOT do this for another few days. I'm assuming that I should carry forward with the Panacure, but still also carry forward with the S. Boulardii at the same time.

I'm still waiting to know if I can stop the anti-biotics. It seems like there's enough evidence now that her poop gets significantly better when the antibiotics wear off.

That's enough for me to think that it should stop being used.

I do agree about the breeder. She's totally wonderful, but it's news to me that hard food is better than wet food for sensitive stomachs. However with that said, it's my experience that Persians eat dry food much, much better than the wet food. With wet food, you need to hang around while they eat and re-spoon it for them.
Yeah s. boulardii doesn't interact with antibiotics or other probiotics so you'll be fine on that. It's really safe with virtually no side effects so its not going to hurt to give it a try. I'm not a fan of aggressive antibiotic use unless there is documented evidence its necessary. Persians do have some challenges because of their face structure, but I've heard that it's mostly about finding the right plate/bowl for their face shape. 
 
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misspersian

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Cool.

If I don't hear back from the vet tonight, then I'm going to stop the anti-biotics.

I just administered some S. Balardii. We'll do some frequent doses for the next couple days and see where we end up. I'm going to wait on the Panacure paste util the weekend.
 

missmimz

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Cool.

If I don't hear back from the vet tonight, then I'm going to stop the anti-biotics.

I just administered some S. Balardii. We'll do some frequent doses for the next couple days and see where we end up. I'm going to wait on the Panacure paste util the weekend.
Good luck keep us updated 
 

neely

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misspersian

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Slight change to plan. The vet called and believes that because the stool was hardening before the next administration of the antibiotics is an indication that the antibiotics are working. She told us to continue them for one more day, then start on the Panacure over the weekend.

Regarding food types for Persians: We have tried every dish/bowl/plate under the face of the sun.

Our Tortie Persian will not even attempt at wet food unless it's in a human's hand. Doesn't matter what dish it's in, no thank you! She even has trouble eating dry food on her own, but manages to get enough when she's hungry. She'll pick at it when she's hungry, but if you hand feed her, she always eats more. My girlfriend enjoys doing it, but I certainly wouldn't do it that way. Her stomach is tough as nails. Human food is no problem for her when she occasionally gets some. She loves pistachios, seaweed, certain vegetables, and any type of meat. You can change food on her on a drop of a dime (not that we do) and she wouldn't have any stomach issues.

The Calico Persian will eat wet food and out any dish without giving up, no problem. But it makes feeding for us humans a big chore. They tend to flatten out the food, then require it to be re-piled multiple times per feeding session. When she's finished, she'll climb up near where the dry food is stored and whine. :) And being that a kitten eats an awful lot throughout the day, you can imagine the chore that it is. There's also tons of food waste involved being that it goes stale quickly. It also requires more cleaning. Even with a dish like that linked above, it will get pushed out over the ground. It's dry food that she craves and will eat more of. She was raised on dry food, as well.

Our vet's prospective is generally that wet food is better. But as far as the GI food, it doesn't matter. Feed her what she'll eat is what truly counts.

I put some loose stool under my lighted magnifier. We've officially switched her to the dry GI food as of this evening because we want her to eventually end up on that (keep in mind that we still feed several wet dishes throughout the week). Her stool that I looked at closely was definitely the previous wet food. I can see lots of whole strands of rice that didn't break down in her stomach. This is what she was eating for nearly a month:


Now she will be on this, per breeders request, and no vet disagreement:

 
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misspersian

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Update as of this morning:

Our temporary roommate left the bathroom door closed on accident, so one litter box was out of commission.

The other box showed a 100% hardened stool. There was also a 90% hardened stool right next to it. There was a 60% hardened stool on the floor next to it, and 2 tic-tac size wet drops.  The stools were actually the largest diameter I have seen from the Calico!

I consider that a huge improvement. I have a feeling when the anti-biotics go away (today is the last day for them) that we'll continue to see improvements. There's no doubt that the S. Boulardii had a huge positive effect. The dry food it's hard to say, but obviously it seems to be working and her stomach is breaking it down.

So super good news. It's still not over until it's consistent, but that's the biggest single event improvement I've seen from her for months. We'll see how it continues, and I only feel that it's going to get better.
 
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missmimz

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Update as of this morning:

Our temporary roommate left the bathroom door closed on accident, so one litter box was out of commission.

The other box showed a 100% hardened stool. There was also a 90% hardened stool right next to it. There was a 60% hardened stool on the floor next to it, and 2 tic-tac size wet drops.  The stools were actually the largest diameter I have seen from the Calico!

I consider that a huge improvement. I have a feeling when the anti-biotics go away (today is the last day for them) that we'll continue to see improvements. There's no doubt that the S. Boulardii had a huge positive effect. The dry food it's hard to say, but obviously it seems to be working and her stomach is breaking it down.

So super good news. It's still not over until it's consistent, but that's the biggest single event improvement I've seen from her for months. We'll see how it continues, and I only feel that it's going to get better.
 
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misspersian

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Well, we just can't seem to catch a break. There's been no change to her GI diet, and no change in our probiotic administration (S. Boulardii). 

Yesterday morning:

excellent, top quality-looking poop. Best it's ever been.

Yesterday mid-afternoon:

excellent, top quality-looking poop. Best it's ever been.

Yesterday night:

All hell breaks loose. Completely liquid.

This morning:

Completely liquid stools, the most quantity I have seen, near both liter boxes.

Today we got her a lion cut to help with cleaning since we are leaving internationally soon. I noticed today when she got back home that her nose went from pink to more white-pink. She seems to have appetite loss. She's pretty inactive right now. She takes a couple sips from the water dish. Doing the skin-tent test shows there is still quite a bit of elasticity.

We've called the vet to inform them. We plan to board her at the vet before we leave, which is this coming Wednesday.

If there's no immediate improvement by tonight, she's going to have to go to the vet first thing on Monday for more diagnosis. I am not going to administer the Panacure to her at this point in time. 
 

missmimz

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Well, we just can't seem to catch a break. There's been no change to her GI diet, and no change in our probiotic administration (S. Boulardii). 

Yesterday morning:

excellent, top quality-looking poop. Best it's ever been.

Yesterday mid-afternoon:

excellent, top quality-looking poop. Best it's ever been.

Yesterday night:

All hell breaks loose. Completely liquid.

This morning:

Completely liquid stools, the most quantity I have seen, near both liter boxes.

Today we got her a lion cut to help with cleaning since we are leaving internationally soon. I noticed today when she got back home that her nose went from pink to more white-pink. She seems to have appetite loss. She's pretty inactive right now. She takes a couple sips from the water dish. Doing the skin-tent test shows there is still quite a bit of elasticity.

We've called the vet to inform them. We plan to board her at the vet before we leave, which is this coming Wednesday.

If there's no immediate improvement by tonight, she's going to have to go to the vet first thing on Monday for more diagnosis. I am not going to administer the Panacure to her at this point in time. 
Oh no :( Seems rather odd she would have good stools and then diarrhea and appetite loss. Seems possible she could be ill? That's a lot of pooping, too. Even on high probiotics most cats shouldn't poop more than once a day. 
 
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misspersian

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Just got off the phone with our vet. She said to monitor her over the weekend and keep doing exactly what we're doing (GI diet, probiotics, etc). She mentioned to also still give her dewormer, because it has nothing to do with giving her diarrhea.

She mentioned that this could be one of those weird fluke things.

She's extremely baffled why the stool was so damn great for a day, then quickly went to the worst.

We're both starting to think that food/diet has nothing to do with this. There may be another problem/illness that she has at this point.

On Monday, she will call, and if this has not improved, she will see the cat and do some further testing.

She's excited that the Calico will be staying with them while we're gone because it's going to allow her to give a very close look and go possibly undergo more testing. It's only $20 a night, so $180 for her to stay there for 10 days. It really makes me calm knowing that she'll be in good hands, and possibly "fixed" by the time we get back. Trying to determine what's a good monetary amount to allow the vet to spend before we leave.
 
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missmimz

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Just got off the phone with our vet. She said to monitor her over the weekend and keep doing exactly what we're doing (GI diet, probiotics, etc). She mentioned to also still give her dewormer, because it has nothing to do with giving her diarrhea.

She mentioned that this could be one of those weird fluke things.

She's extremely baffled why the stool was so damn great for a day, then quickly went to the worst.

We're both starting to think that food/diet has nothing to do with this. There may be another problem/illness that she has at this point.

On Monday, she will call, and if this has not improved, she will see the cat and do some further testing.

She's excited that the Calico will be staying with them while we're gone because it's going to allow her to give a very close look and go possibly undergo more testing. It's only $20 a night, so $180 for her to stay there for 10 days. It really makes me calm knowing that she'll be in good hands, and possibly "fixed" by the time we get back. Trying to determine what's a good monetary amount to allow the vet to spend before we leave.
What are you feeding right now? I think, personally, you can't rule out a food allergy unless you've gone raw or homecooked, because any commercial food, even RX foods, have the potential to still cause flares, especially if its something like IBD, which doesn't always respond that well to RX foods. I know she doesn't have an IBD diagnosis, but it seems like a possibility. 
 
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While it can be expensive ( about $200 in my area) I would insist that the vet run a PCR diarrhea panel. I am not a vet but it sounds to me like possibly Tritrichomonas.  That will not respond to wormers or antibiotics.
 
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misspersian

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A PCR panel is one of the next steps. However, it should be 3 weeks until after the last antibiotic was given. So there's another 2 weeks until that can possibly happen.

This weekend was pretty OK for her. Nothing liquidy. Some really exceptional stools. There was one yogurt-looking stool, but I think she got into the other cat's food for that one. One minor explosion with little scattered bits, but almost entirely all litter box contained. Had to clean her feet only once this whole weekend. Didn't really have to clean any parts of the floor that much.

I'm also suspecting Tritrichomonas. Symptoms:

The main symptom is a longstanding bout of loose smelly stools

=YES.

sometimes mixed with blood or mucus.

=YES

Cats may have difficulty passing the loose stools and strain to empty the bowels.

= YES

Stool may leak out of the anus  and cause redness and pain around the area.

= YES

Purebred?

= YES

Came from a Cattery

= YES

increased frequency of defecation

= YES

semi-formed to liquid faeces

= YES

Gaining weight and otherwise healthy

= YES

The things that make me feel better about Tritrichomonas:  A) it almost always goes away on its own, B) it's very much curable, and C) it doesn't significantly affect weight gain and growth.

I am however, looking forward to running a PCR test. If she's shown to be a carrier, I think the breeder needs to be aware of this, and hopefully help out with the costs to remedy it. The cat does have a health guarantee. 
 
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