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post #271 of 334

Just Google it. you'll find MANY! By the way, I thought this was a PRO Trump thread. Hilary fans already have had their say, It's not becoming to be such sore losers for a lost cause.  

post #272 of 334

I have a problem with a man that makes fun of disabled people. It seems like nothing to some, but this entire election was more like middle schoolers name calling than educated adults running for the most powerful position in the country.

 

BUT......I cant change the results. I hope that America grows as a nation under our new leader.

post #273 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Di and Bob View Post

Just Google it. you'll find MANY! By the way, I thought this was a PRO Trump thread. Hilary fans already have had their say, It's not becoming to be such sore losers for a lost cause.  

Again, if you google it you will find isolated incidents. I would like to see any kind of report on the scope of attacks, like what has been compiled for hate crimes that occurred post-election. There is no such report, and I suspect it's because there aren't many incidents.

I am not being a sore loser by being critical.
post #274 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by talkingpeanut View Post


Again, if you google it you will find isolated incidents. I would like to see any kind of report on the scope of attacks, like what has been compiled for hate crimes that occurred post-election. There is no such report, and I suspect it's because there aren't many incidents.

I am not being a sore loser by being critical.

There is no mechanism in place to count and maintain statistics for crimes based on political affiliation.  Hate crimes have a legal definition and mechanisms in place to accumulate statistics.  Anything outside of that strict legal definition are part of general crime statistics.

post #275 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denice View Post

There is no mechanism in place to count and maintain statistics for crimes based on political affiliation.  Hate crimes have a legal definition and mechanisms in place to accumulate statistics.  Anything outside of that strict legal definition are part of general crime statistics.

I don't think that's the case given what the Southern Poverty Law Center is able to put together.
post #276 of 334

This link has the explanation of the hate crime laws.  https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/249    It covers religion, national origin,  gender,  sexual orientation,  gender identity, disability  and race.  It is the definition of a hate crime.  That definition is how official statistics are gathered.  Anything that any other group is doing is suspect.  It takes a lot of work, money and a very broad reach to gather reliable statistics outside of those required by law.

post #277 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denice View Post

This link has the explanation of the hate crime laws.  https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/249    It covers religion, national origin,  gender,  sexual orientation,  gender identity, disability  and race.  It is the definition of a hate crime.  That definition is how official statistics are gathered.  Anything that any other group is doing is suspect.  It takes a lot of work, money and a very broad reach to gather reliable statistics outside of those required by law.

The Southern Poverty Law Center is hardly suspect.
post #278 of 334
post #279 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denice View Post
 

This link has the explanation of the hate crime laws.  https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/249    It covers religion, national origin,  gender,  sexual orientation,  gender identity, disability  and race.  It is the definition of a hate crime.  That definition is how official statistics are gathered.  Anything that any other group is doing is suspect.  It takes a lot of work, money and a very broad reach to gather reliable statistics outside of those required by law.

 

I'm a little puzzled by the Cornell organization.  They may be the final word in defining a hate crime but do they actually collect any statistics themselves?  That's a sincere question - I couldn't find a place on their website that reported any statistics.  I was hoping they did because it might help resolve some of the disputed points in this discussion.  Although I realize they wouldn't be dealing with attacks for one's politics, they could still give an idea of the number of hate crimes since Trump started campaigning and since the election.  

post #280 of 334
It's not intelligent to just go "we won, we won, you lost, nyah nyah!" and never think critically about what the guy is doing, or allow others to think critically. It's not becoming to be a sore winner wink.gif.
Quote:
I'm a little puzzled by the Cornell organization. They may be the final word in defining a hate crime but do they actually collect any statistics themselves?

Cornell does not define hate crimes or any crime. Cornell is just a university with a law school that happens to have made all the US laws conveniently available online biggrin.gif. So no, they don't compile statistics either.
post #281 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willowy View Post

It's not intelligent to just go "we won, we won, you lost, nyah nyah!" and never think critically about what the guy is doing, or allow others to think critically. It's not becoming to be a sore winner wink.gif.
 

Exactly. And in doing so, it tells us exactly the Regime that will be run under Trump. 

 

His New Year tweet: "Happy New Year to all, including to my many enemies and those who have fought me and lost so badly they just don't know what to do. Love!"

 

What would have been wrong with just saying, "Happy New Year! Welcome 2017!" Or better yet, just say nothing. 

 

Nooooo, rub our noses in it. Yet again. This tells us the kind of regime he will run and the kind of regime leader he will be. Condescension much? How about passive-aggressive?  How about....just your standard Trump jerk? 

 

I see that he has no plans to delete his Twitter account. How very presidential. How very "becoming". Oh wait, that's right. He's not legitimately the President-Elect. I guess that gives him the right to act like the 7-year-old little boy he really is. In an Orange Man suit.

post #282 of 334

The official statistics on hate crimes come from the FBI.  https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/civil-rights/hate-crimes

 

It will be quite some time before the statistics come out for this year.

post #283 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donutte View Post

This thread was a celebratory thread, not a Trump bashing thread. We have enough of those. So I will leave my thoughts at that.
 

 

I feel it's one thing for a person/people to delude 'themselves'.........however, when people spread defacto incorrect information in an alleged public interest, it becomes incumbent on those individuals in that society who recognize the wrong to speak out against such untruth.

 

World history, to those who know it and its lessons, is replete with far too many instances when people have 'turned a blind eye', kept 'fingers crossed' and 'hoped for the best' - all in the face of blatant fallacy ..........and, where calamity has resulted.

 

To do that - to not speak out - is to be complicit in the deceit and to bear responsibility for the ensuing disaster........no matter which thread is used to post it.

post #284 of 334

It is very concerning to me to read tweets like Mr. Trump's New Year tweet where he chides his "enemies",  mimicking those that "fought him and lost".     Well, a campaign is a fight for what you cherish, with freedom to do that.   I am praying that good things will be accomplished and more peace come to this world.    In my opinion, this is not presidential behavior.

post #285 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by raysmyheart View Post
 

It is very concerning to me to read tweets like Mr. Trump's New Year tweet where he chides his "enemies",  mimicking those that "fought him and lost".     Well, a campaign is a fight for what you cherish, with freedom to do that.   I am praying that good things will be accomplished and more peace come to this world.    In my opinion, this is not presidential behavior.

ditto, Trump is a short fuse waiting to explode.  Always looking for attention.

post #286 of 334

DT is about DT and DT only.

 

Nothing else matters.

 

Nothing.

post #287 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittyluv387 View Post

What an odd thread..but people have the right to their opinions. I think Trump is a terrible human being. This is just another opportunity for his family to make $$$ and branding his name even more. When i saw that he had won i felt a great sense of dread since im a minority female. We seem to be going backwards in values, not modern and progressive...I hope he does better than expected or doesn't have the competence to do much since he jsut likes to spew words. But then again his children are doing all the work so...

I think Donald Trump will do much more to help people in the inner cities raise themselves up than the Democrats ever did.

post #288 of 334
Quote:

TRUMP TRANSITION

Ford to scrap Mexico plant, invest in Michigan; CEO cites Trump policies

Published January 03, 2017 

Ford Motor Company announced Tuesday it will cancel a $1.6 billion plant planned for Mexico and will instead invest $700 million in a Michigan assembly plant, directly tying the decision to “pro-growth policies” championed by President-elect Donald Trump.

“We’re doing this decision based on what’s right for our business,” Ford CEO Mark Fields told Neil Cavuto on Fox Business Network. “As we think about the investments here in Michigan, as you can imagine, Neil, we look at a lot of factors as we make those. One of the factors that we’re looking at is a more positive U.S. manufacturing business environment under President-elect Trump and some of the pro-growth policies he said he’s going to pursue. And so this is a vote of confidence.”


 

[url]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/03/ford-to-scrap-mexico-plant-invest-in-michigan-due-to-trump-policies.html[/url]

post #289 of 334
~ Today the news is awash with U.S. intelligence confirming Russia hacking that apparently has been going on for years. I find it suspicious that this all comes to a head after the election results. Would this be happening if Hillary Clinton had won the election ?
Personally I do not think it would, but I am glad it did !

What say you ?
post #290 of 334

Everything has become so politicized.  It also depends on which country it is.  We spent a lot of time trying to get the 'reset' with Russia.  Remember the debate with Mitt Romney when Romney said that Russia was our biggest geopolitical foe?  President Obama had a good time with that, told him that the 80's wanted their foreign policy back.  There was also the deal with Hillary Clinton giving  her Russian counterpart the 'reset' button. Well Russia continued doing what they have been doing for generations so now we are calling them out.  Of course the election was the trigger.  

 

China can steal all of those security clearance applications, mine was one of them, and nothing is done.  We are however beholden to China so nothing is done.  

post #291 of 334
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesCalifornia View Post

~ Today the news is awash with U.S. intelligence confirming Russia hacking that apparently has been going on for years. I find it suspicious that this all comes to a head after the election results. Would this be happening if Hillary Clinton had won the election ?
Personally I do not think it would, but I am glad it did !

What say you ?

 

The New York Times just ran a big story, complete with infographics and screen shots, showing how the "hackers" targeted Podesta and the DNC. It's classic, basic phishing -- the same kind of password-stealing social engineering method used by teenagers all the way back in the late 90s when people were using AOL dial-up to get on the internet.

 

Seriously, that's how "sophisticated" it was. It doesn't even qualify as hacking. It's social engineering, but even that term gives too much credit.

 

What amazes me is that an IT person working for Clinton's campaign apparently "verified" that the email to Podesta was legit. I cannot fathom how that can happen. I would have known it was fake within 15 seconds.

post #292 of 334
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denice View Post
 

I don't know if this will ever be 'settled'.  There are different things said from each side and the truth probably lies somewhere in between.  From what I can gather there are two major sticking points from the Israeli side in addition to having defensible borders.  Recognition of Israel by the Palestinians and some type of neutral control of the Western Wall so that Jews have free access to it.  Israel has said that the Palestinians won't give on either and they can't agree to anything without those two things.  Of course Israel has their very religious who say that all of Israel belongs to the Jewish people but that is what it is.  We have the religious extremists types here as well with ideas that aren't going to fly.

 

Israel does have to do something though.  The Palestinian's higher birth rate is going to catch up with them.  That is what John Kerry meant when he said that things can't continue as they have and Israel remain both a Jewish state and a Democracy.

 

One of the main issues is Israel usurping more Palestinian land to build "settlements." They raze entire neighborhoods, bulldoze homes that have belonged to Palestinian families for generations, then build "settlements" for Israelis, usually ultra-Orthodox, on the former Palestinian land.

 

To rub salt in the wound, they raze more Palestinian homes to create buffer zones around those "settlements" for the security of the "settlers."

 

Here is a map showing the 1947 borders between Israel and Palestine, all the way through to the borders today. Look at how much territory Israel has usurped, how the West Bank is now comprised of isolated "islands" of Palestinians, and how the Gaza strip keeps shrinking:

 

 

 

For context, Israel is about the size of New Jersey. There are a combined 4.4 million Palestinians squeezed into the West Bank, Gaza strip and East Jerusalem. One important thing to note about the "islands" the Israelis have created in the West Bank is that Palestinians do not have free movement -- they are restricted to pre-defined corridors they can travel, corridors that are policed by the Israeli Defense Force, with manned checkpoints.

 

So imagine having to drive through checkpoints with hostile, armed soldiers every time you go to work, or want to visit your grandmother, or need to help a friend.

 

The U.S. has been begging Israel to stop usurping Palestinian land and stop building "settlements" for years now. Despite all we do for them, despite the billions Israel and its military receives from U.S. taxpayers, despite the U.S. protecting Israel in the U.N. Security Council and protecting Israel's interests in the region, Israeli leaders refuse to stop their "settlement" program.

 

In fact, Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu responded to the latest U.N. Security Council vote -- the one the U.S. abstained from -- by going ahead with 600 new homes in a massive "settlement," and approving plans for more than 5,000 additional settlement homes.

 

Here is a story from the Washington Post, detailing the experiences of a Palestinian man whose home was targeted for destruction by Israel:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/israel-wrecked-my-home-now-it-wants-my-land/2015/07/31/79808fca-36cf-11e5-9d0f-7865a67390ee_story.html?utm_term=.b65dde555863

 

Here is a New York Times story detailing John Kerry's statements from about a week ago, in which he reiterates that peace isn't even remotely possible until the "settlement" program is stopped:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/28/us/politics/john-kerry-israel-palestine-peace.html

 

Now clearly I don't support many of Obama's policies, but I wholeheartedly support pushing back against Israel on this issue. The shame is that Obama waited until literally the last days of his administration to send a strong message to Israel, that he didn't seriously address this issue years ago when he could have been truly effective.

 

The U.S. has tried to broker peace between the Israelis and Palestinians so many times, with so much effort, time and diplomatic goodwill poured into those efforts, that we have more than enough ground to tell Israel enough is enough. That's not to say the Palestinians are innocent either -- there are very real terrorist groups in the Palestinian territories, and the intifadas were bloody and real. But the vast majority of Palestinians are regular people who just want jobs, homes and security, like we all do. They have nothing to do with the ongoing violence. They're caught in the middle. And not all of them are Muslims.

 

Now Trump wants his hardcore Israeli hardliner as ambassador to Israel, and any hope of stopping settlements is gone. Obama should have found a spine on the Israel issue a long, long time ago.

post #293 of 334

It is a tough one.  Israel has their religious zealots just as we do in this country.  It is hard for Israel to separate religion though because they are a Jewish state.  I know being Jewish is also about being part of an ancient people, a shared culture and tradition but it would be difficult for them to put that hard line between religion and state.   Religion and politics don't make for a good mix, the mix is actually a recipe for a lot of problems.

post #294 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan View Post
 

 

The New York Times just ran a big story, complete with infographics and screen shots, showing how the "hackers" targeted Podesta and the DNC. It's classic, basic phishing -- the same kind of password-stealing social engineering method used by teenagers all the way back in the late 90s when people were using AOL dial-up to get on the internet.

 

Seriously, that's how "sophisticated" it was. It doesn't even qualify as hacking. It's social engineering, but even that term gives too much credit.

 

What amazes me is that an IT person working for Clinton's campaign apparently "verified" that the email to Podesta was legit. I cannot fathom how that can happen. I would have known it was fake within 15 seconds.

I don't believe it was the Russians.  Julian Assange has said from the beginning that it was a leak from inside the DNC and he also said any 14 year-old could have done it.

You know what Podesta's password was?  "password"!  what a goof.

 

All this talk of Russians just deflects from what was leaked and that's what the DNC wants, the deflection so people wouldn't talk about the emails themselves which were rife

with homophobia, racism and corruption by the DNC by giving Hillary Clinton the answers to debate questions in advance, etc.  The leaked emails proved how corrupt the DNC

is.  The Republicans are just as bad, the hacker(s) just weren't able to get into the RNC when they tried to.  And Trump NEVER sends emails and he doesn't even have a computer in his office I don't think.

post #295 of 334
Plan said : ~
Obama should have found a spine on the Israel issue a long, long time ago.

You got that right. Obama has done more in the weeks since Trump unexpectedly won the election than in the past 7 Years ! What is that all about ?
I think Trump has somehow motivated Obama . Go figure ... ~😕`
post #296 of 334

I think what bothers me is doing it as the administration is going out the door.  There can certainly be a good case made for what was done in the U.N. it was doing it in the waning days of his administration.  It's a major shift in foreign policy that will have repercussions and I didn't like doing what they did and then walking away from it.

post #297 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan View Post
 

Here is a map showing the 1947 borders between Israel and Palestine, all the way through to the borders today. Look at how much territory Israel has usurped, how the West Bank is now comprised of isolated "islands" of Palestinians, and how the Gaza strip keeps shrinking:

 

 

 

Not to get into politics (I actually happen to agree with most of what you said), but this map is very inaccurate, in more ways than one. Easiest thing to point out was your comment about Gaza. That last bit taken out of Gaza in the last map? That's not done by Israel, that's Egyptian forces there now. They have a legal claim to the entire area of Gaza, as far as I can tell, as this was in fact Egypt until 1967. Either way, if green here equals Israel, than that's not green. That's Egyptian controlled territory and ask any Palestinians, the blockade on the Egyptian side is not any nicer than that on the Israel side (probably worse, actually).

 

Again, not getting into the political argument here and I don't even disagree, I just had to comment on these maps because they're inaccurate and probably deliberately so (lots of propaganda on both sides, as is the case with any conflict).

post #298 of 334
~ Well I must say that so far President Trump is doing exactly what he promised . Amazing! I don't think we've seen anything like this and some people are in shock and/or awe .
I know that in California there are many people in their 20s & 30s who have never seen the immigration laws enforced.
I do hope a new or modified healthcare plan will be announced within a few months. As of this post I believe the penalty (fine ) on income tax for not being insured has been neutered.
All the best to us ! 🌾
post #299 of 334

There is a new healthcare plan. Patients Freedom Act of 2017. All people who bought insurance are locked into this year. 2018-2020 is when they implement the changes. I don't know much more about it. It has to work it's way through the Senate and House to be a law.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-trump-republicans-obamacare-patient-freedom-edit-0129-20170127-story.html

 

There's some changes need to be made but also allowing States to decide how they want to deal with it is a good thing. Hopefully now that people will not be penalized for not being able to afford health insurance can now have a bit of money set up to use for this..be nice if they told us how much this costs.

post #300 of 334

There are bits and pieces out  there from several Republicans.  Unfortunately Donald Trump keeps weighing in with this "I want it done now and everybody has to be covered".  This is really the time for him to just shut up and listen but I don't think that is something he is able to do.  One thing I am hearing more and more is taking the people who have pre-existing conditions out of the insurance pool and insuring them directly with a government plan.  The rest is still a hodge podge.  There is a lot of buying insurance across state lines and block granting MCAID.  Democrats always resist block grants.  There is also the idea of extending the idea of a 'group' for insurance.  Extending it to the point of anyone could qualify for a group to buy insurance outside of an employer group.

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