Unsocialized(?) Kitty Baby Help, Please!

conje

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Hi Everyone! Firstly, thank you for having such a wonderful place to learn and teach others about our wonderful furry family members...

Now hopefully I can keep this pretty brief. However, I will have to leave out a lot!  Basically, I adopted a beautiful little ginger girl, Winifred, several months ago from a shelter. The vet had determined her to be closer to a year old than the two years old I was told. I don't know about other places, but here if an animal hasn't been fixed, a trip to the vet has to be made before your little one can come home to live with you. I already have an 8-year-old, cute little male Bombay, Salem, so separation for surgery and new introductions were warranted. We went thru all of the slow introduction processes I know of. For the most part, Salem didn't seem to have to much of a problem meeting Winifred, up close and personal, except one little glitch.

While Winifred was getting to know me, I first noticed how (for a lack of a better term) "unemotional" she was. She didn't seem to know how to take treats from my hand. I mean she didn't seem to understand to open her mouth and take a nip or bite she just sat there and looked at it. I slowly started pushing it in her mouth, forcing her to react. After a while she got the hang of it. Now she doesn't have a problem taking it from me. It wasn't like she was scared, just that she didn't know what to do. She never had a problem letting me touch her and loves being petted and scratched. We have all kinds of toys, but the only thing, so far, she has reacted to more than a half second is the laser light, and a live cricket she found one day. She actually got emotional and reacted to the cricket, practically bouncing off the walls. The cricket disappeared and it was like it had never happened. When I first started brushing her, she reacted like I was shocking her, and she squirmed all over the place. It scared me, but when I stopped, she nudged the glove and my hand. I had to take it easy, but slowly she has calmed down after a couple of weeks. I think because of lack of interaction, it was overwhelming to her nervous system or something. I recently bought a food puzzle and had to keep putting my hand and and her's in it to teach her what to do. After several days, she started doing it. I'm teaching her some tricks and we rub and butt heads, She's trying to learn how to say "I love you" and is so adorable because she's only got as far as a half-squint so far. She isn't a lap cat and doesn't like to be held long, but otherwise, extremely affectionate with me.

The problem I find is trying to get her to "live" in her home. I constantly take her all over the house so she can feel and smell everything, high and low. I even let her get on the kitchen table and counters. From the beginning, she's always either wanted to go back to where her room is or in the living room on the cat tower and sleep. A couple of times, she actually has went exploring in my bedroom, getting on the TV stand and walking around. A lot of the time if she's down on the floor, she will go hide under a couch or the TV stand in the living room. Even when she knows Salem is locked up and isn't  going to bother her, she goes back to her door. When Salem first met her, I noticed he was sneaky. He would look her in the eye and asked her how she was doing, see if I was watching and if he thought I wasn't looking, he would lunge at her. Then he would walk or run away happily like he hadn't done anything. A lot of the time, she hisses and growls at him if he comes near her. However, he isn't put off by her threats. I think a lot of it is because she doesn't know how to interact with him. If she knew how big of a sissy-scaredy cat he is, she could own him easily. How they react to each other is really odd because they have both laid down next to me at the same time, although not next to each other. When I get out the treats, they both change. They have even touched each other without a reaction at all. I only give them a couple of treats a week so I can't use treats as a tool. Every once in a while, he will get in her face and she won't hiss and growl and after a couple of minutes of him staring at her, he just walks away. And if she's on the tower, she just goes back to sleep. Once in a while after an altercation or almost altercation, she runs to her door or under something. It's odd to me because none of their behavior is routine or consistent. I do think part of it may be because he may think of her as prey when she runs, so he runs after her. I know she needs to gain confidence which is supposed to help stop it, but I haven't got a clue what to do for them.  And then to add to it, when she's in her room, we have a plastic gate covering a hole and both of them are nose to nose on either side like they are friends. They even stick their arms through the holes to each other. Slowly it does seem like he may be getting bored with her. Either that or it's just wishful thinking. I really don't know what to do or even think since nothing they do is anything I've seen on My Cat From Hell or read anywhere online.

It bothers me because I haven't been able to find an example of any kind or anything similar to their behavior. I know there has to be a solution because as I've mentioned, their behavior is not consistent and when they get the treats, they can touch each other without a reaction. Have any of you went through a similar situation or have any ideas what to do or try? I would appreciate any suggestions. Thank you so much!

CJ
 

orientals

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Hi ConJe, I'm not sure what your question is? Your cats seem to be getting to know each other in typical cat style, with ups and downs. I'm not reading they fight, which is great.

Cats exclusively live in a pecking order so the two of them have some working out to do. Give them time to do this at their own pace, as long as no one is getting hurt.

What always helps is to not make them compete at this point for food or litter box access, so have two of everything. That also goes for safe places to retreat to, preferably high perches.

The new kitty may have been traumatized a bit by being in the shelter. With patience and a hands off approach I'm sure that she will come around.
 
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conje

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I'm sorry, Orientals. This usually happens when I try to make a long story short. From what I gather, Winifred wasn't at the shelter long. For the most part as with most issues, it turns out mostly to be one of those, "you have to see for yourself to know what I mean" situation. But here goes.

Okay so, they reason they don't fight is because she wants to spend all of her time in her room, crying trying to get in her room, or sleeping on their tower. There have been three fights, and many altercations. I mentioned in my first post that Salem will look to see if I am looking... What I mean is he will literally look to see where I am. Next he will decide if I am looking at him. If he thinks he has a chance to jump her, he takes it. He has done that several times, but since I try to stay near, he usually only gets to start the attack. I'll yell his name and he takes off like he didn't do anything, chatting with a friend or something. He has literally grabbed her from her rear end but wasn't able to do anything more because I yelled his name and that let him know I was watching so he took off. He has grabbed her by the back of her neck which I don't understand since he's been fixed. I think after the first fight, she's been too scared to fight back. All she does is hiss and growl and he just ignores it. If they get close to each other and he doesn't stare and she doesn't hiss, I sing-song praises to them for "getting along". As long as I'm next to Winifred, he doesn't try anything. My husband told me to leave them alone and let them work it out. Each time I did leave them alone and walked away from them, or at least away from Winifred, is when he attacked her. If she would fight back, I think it may be a little different, but right now she goes and hides under something for hours if I don't pull her out. I should have stated that she'll only go to sleep on the tower if I stay near her. Even then, part of the time she goes to her door and meows until I let her in her room. It's hard to explain because it's never played out the same way twice. Their very first fight, she either bit his ear or got a claw stuck in it. I'm not sure, but it bled some. That is the only time I wasn't there to see how things played out.. In the first fight, they both had the other's fur in their mouth afterwards. In the second and third there was fur only in Salem's mouth.

I can't explain how everything happens but when he hasn't tried to start anything with her and she isn't lying down, she is constantly curious about what he is doing. I don't mean in a scared way. That's when I believe she doesn't know what she's supposed to do. I guess I mean I feel she wasn't around siblings or other cats, from a very early time of her life. I feel like she has had very limited social interaction period. You'd have to see how she looks at him from a distance. I think if he would stop threatening her, she would attempt to learn how to play and be friends. And then there's Salem. I just don't think it's normal for him to walk up to her and just stand there and look at her and in a split second, jump her. He doesn't stalk her, he doesn't make any negative sounds or actions towards her. I think it's strange that he will literally watch to see if I'm looking at him. I have tested that theory and deliberately made him think I wasn't watching, while in mid-stream of getting to jump her and I yell he can take off and seconds later act like nothing happened. If he was always mean to her or acted like he didn't like her, etc., then it would make sense. And when I say I take her to different rooms, I mean I have to make her go. She's not scared. I believe she is not curious, or rather doesn't know she is supposed to be curious. Just about every time, she'll run back to her door or just lie there and go to sleep.

I don't think the way either one of them are acting is normal. I don't think they should "act like cats" or each other, for that matter. I want to find a way to get Winifred out of her room. I don't want that to be "her" room any more. I want the house to be hers and take ownership. I want her to explore, have some life and want to know what's behind that door. Of course I would like for Salem to stop jumping her, but I guess that ain't gonna happen. But like I mentioned before, he does seem like he may be thinking messing with her is getting old. Should I leave them alone and let what happens happen? I wouldn't have a problem with them not being friends, just as long as she didn't have to worry about him jumping her.

CJ
 
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conje

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I'm sorry. I also meant to ask you what you meant by "hands off" approach.
 
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conje

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Like I said...when I try to keep it short.

They do not eat together. Salem has urinary health problems and is on a special diet. Since the beginning, they have both had their own eating stations in separate rooms. However, I haven't tried to keep either of them from pooping in any of the boxes. If I see a problem, then I will change that too. When Salem has been allowed in her room, he has used her litter box, but her box in her room is the only one she will use so far. I've even put some of her poop in the other boxes, but she won't go near them.

I got her at the beginning of spring of this year. Many times, she's not even let me set her down for a second and she's already running for her door. When those times happen, she does look and act scared.

As far as being traumatized, I'm no expert but I've never seen her flinch or jump, etc. As a matter of fact, for the first several months, I thought she was deaf because she didn't even jump if there was a loud noise. She just doesn't react. That's why I'm leaning towards the fact there was something missing...

CJ
 

orientals

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Hi CJ, I just meant hands off approach in the sense that they set their own pace and are not forced into each others company. Sometimes getting 2 cat together can take as much a year. With lots of patience and confidance building it should get a whole lot better.
 
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conje

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Sometimes getting 2 cat together can take as much a year. With lots of patience and confidance building it should get a whole lot better.
Many times because Winifred was so leery of Salem, she had to be forced to stay out of "her room". She also, unfortunately, got me into the habit of spending a lot of time in her room with her. On the days she was determined she didn't want to deal with the "outside world", and especially Salem, I'd just stay in there with her. One day a couple of weeks ago, I had several appts and errands to run. Winifred pretty much stayed in "her room" all day, and without me. When I let her out that nite, she acted different than her normal self. She seemed like she kind of enjoyed being out and even explored a little on her on. I decided to try and see what would happen if her peep hole stayed shut and she had to stay inside a couple of days by herself. I only went in to take care of her and then I'd leave. The bad part was having to let her cry.

On the third day after breakfast, I didn't have to force her to come out. She actually jumped over the fence and ran into the kitchen. Since then, she's even slept on the bed with us without keeping one eye open. Now I am no longer considering it "her room". She is only allowed to go in there to eat and do her business, or if I feel she needs some alone time. She and Salem aren't buddies yet, but they both walk past each other without confrontation. She doesn't cower when he comes near her and stands a lot taller now. They've even sniffed each other's butts a couple of times.

Thank you, Orientals, for your input. I knew it could take a while, but hearing it could take a year kind of changed my attitude.

CJ
 
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