New fosters - Medley & Moby - Advice welcome

We got two new fosters on the 6Th, Medley and Mobidic (That's a clever french spelling for Moby Dick). They are around 6 months old, both males, freshly identified, neutered and vaccinated.

They were trapped two weeks ago at a rest stop on the freeway. As far as we could tell, they were a part of one of two colonies there.

They're in excellent health, and after putting some weight on them, they will be really beautiful kitties.

We put them both in the safe room, which is the bathroom. They already got past the quarantine period at the rescue, and they were in their cattery for 4 days, along with 14 other cats, so they don't mind company. Since we have two resident cats, Sparrow and Shadow, they are the ones that we need to work with scent-wise. Medley and Moby are fine with Sparrow and Shadow's scents already.

Anyway, my problem is this : Medley is the more approachable of the two. We were able to pet him a little bit, he's eating tuna (our secret weapon) out of our hands, and he's fine eating with us sitting next to him. He's always looking to see where we are, but that's to be expected. He even played a bit with a feather wand toy.

Moby, on the other hand, is always hiding. We can't get close to him, he refuse to eat if SO or me are in the safe room. I can't tell if he's eating or not, drinking, or going to the litterbox.

We never had two fosters in the safe room at the same time, so I don't know what to do.

It's seems that Medley will be able to get out of the safe room faster than Moby, but since they are bonded, should we separate them when Medley is ready to explore the house? And how to tell if Moby is eating?

Here are some pics taken Tuesday night, a couple of hours after they arrived :

This is Medley :


Here is Moby :


That's Shadow, she's very curious :

Yesterday, I noticed that medley was limping. today he was worse, and he barely ate and drank. He just sleeps a lot. To make matters worse, Moby started limping too! I search on the forums and found an old thread began by @catwoman707 about calicivirus and limping in kittens.

It just so happens that they both got primo vaccinated on Tuesday. So I'm relieved to know what it is, but now I don't know what to do to help them. I can't give sub-q, but I have needle-less syringes. For the food we are going to try different things, but they still eat for now. I'm really worried they're going to get dehydrated. How much water do I give them?

For water, its 70 ml / kg body weigh.  So a kitten of 1 kilogramme (sliglthy over 2pounds) shall have about 70 ml a day.  Depends a little on what food they get - if its mostly wet, they dont need much extra water.  If its mostly dry, give this and even somewhat more...

As they are sick, good if you give them  pedialyte style - depending too if they eat food.

So, water, a little salt, some glucose sugar - for example honey.   If they dont eat other food, you can add more honey so it even may taste al little sweet.

Good is to use mineral water, it contains lotsa salts, you can blend it out with common water some, and add half a table spoon honey per 330 ml bottle...  Or one and half spoon of glucose sugar source per litre water.  Perhaps even slightly more as said.

And yes, you must perhaps forcefeed with a needleless syringe or a dropper.

Raw goats milk is healthome and useful.  Bottled or powdered goats milk are OK too, but not the same edge.  Or some good kmr... 

Good nourishment and easy to take.

Some mild chicken broth may be another alternative - lotsa of kids were saved by chicken or pidgeon soup made by their moms, no?

L-lysine may help some against this virus.  Cant hurt, may help...

Good luck!

Thanks @StefanZ that was really fast!

Medley eats some wet and dry, but Moby eats dry only. I do have bottled water and honey, so pedialyte it is. They are both 2.5 Kg, so around 175 ml/day for Moby, and less for Medley. He just ate a bit of tuna, and he's drinking right now.

Lyzzie said:

 
Yesterday, I noticed that medley was limping. today he was worse, and he barely ate and drank. He just sleeps a lot. To make matters worse, Moby started limping too! I search on the forums and found an old thread began by @catwoman707 about calicivirus and limping in kittens.

It just so happens that they both got primo vaccinated on Tuesday. So I'm relieved to know what it is, but now I don't know what to do to help them. I can't give sub-q, but I have needle-less syringes. For the food we are going to try different things, but they still eat for now. I'm really worried they're going to get dehydrated. How much water do I give them?

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So glad you found the thread on calici aka limping kitten syndrome, this is a 3 day virus basically, causing fever, lack of appetite, sleeping, body/limb aches.

You will notice a change in limbs that are favored too.

Key is keeping them well hydrated, baby food watered down and warmed is a good thing to syringe or entice them to eat some on their own, or of course goat's milk or KMR formula too, but most important is hydration.

Good 'ol tuna is always helpful.

3 full days and you should then see a dramatic improvement.

Kitten who is more shy, don't worry about him eating, he surely is. Soon enough he will begin to gain some amt of trust and will start coming out of his shell.

If possible, as often as you can too, spend time in the room with them, start down on the floor on their level, SO much less intimidating.

Talking to them in a sweet calm voice, singing, reading out loud, etc is helpful.

Irresistible treats offered in your hand is good, tuna works magic for this, it will take time to start this until he is showing himself more than he is now.

The other one who does take treats now, do an exchange, offer the treat, when he goes to take it, pet with your other hand. If he pulls back and he will at first, don't give up the treat.

Teach him to accept this as a fair trade. 

Food is the most useful and helpful way to tame kitties.

If you don't see enough progress in the time frame you'd like, you may have to resort to using food as the bribe, in other words not giving food except from your hand only.

It is not cruel, when a tummy is hungry, it's enough to force them to accept interactions despite their fear and a good way to jump start progress, a much faster approach, but your call.

Thanks, I'm really glad I found it too, I was starting to get really worried.

Medley, the first to show symptoms, he's also the more outgoing one normally : I was able to get about 12 ml of pedialyte in him out of the 20 I attempted. He didn't fight me, but the syringes that I got have that little screwing plastic thingy on the end of it, and the tip of the syringe barely get out of it, that makes it very difficult. I petted him a bit, and then gently put him back down. I offered him the bowl of kibble (it's Orijen kitten and cats), and he ate a good amount. I offered him some wet food right after that, and he ate a little of that too! Then he went back inside his cubby, looked at me and purred. He's so sweet. So I'm happy with that, he's been more lethargic since yesterday. He limps from his left hind leg for now.

Moby, on the other hand, fought me A LOT. I got 2 ml in him, and then gave up. He just started showing a limp, he's not lethargic, and I saw him eat kibbles and drink earlier today. I offered him two kibbles out of my hand and he ate one, but licked the wet a little. He limps from his right front leg for now.

I put the rest of the pedialyte in their bowl, instead of water. Should I put a water bowl also?

This is day 2 for Medley, so hopefully he will be OK on Sunday. Moby should be fine on Monday.

We already spend time in the safe room, sitting on the floor, talking softly to them. I'm reading them Harry Potter, but maybe they would prefer something else

Tuna is what we call our secret weapon. And we used it right away with these guys. What's funny is that I can pet Moby, but SO can't. Just today he ate a kibble out of my hand, which he refused to do with me up until now, but had no problem eating out of SO's hand from the second day. He's quite the character.

We will definitely try the treat/pet trade!

I will keep everyone updated, thank you all so much!!

Lyzzie said:

 
Thanks, I'm really glad I found it too, I was starting to get really worried.

Medley, the first to show symptoms, he's also the more outgoing one normally : I was able to get about 12 ml of pedialyte in him out of the 20 I attempted. He didn't fight me, but the syringes that I got have that little screwing plastic thingy on the end of it, and the tip of the syringe barely get out of it, that makes it very difficult. I petted him a bit, and then gently put him back down. I offered him the bowl of kibble (it's Orijen kitten and cats), and he ate a good amount. I offered him some wet food right after that, and he ate a little of that too! Then he went back inside his cubby, looked at me and purred. He's so sweet. So I'm happy with that, he's been more lethargic since yesterday. He limps from his left hind leg for now.

Moby, on the other hand, fought me A LOT. I got 2 ml in him, and then gave up. He just started showing a limp, he's not lethargic, and I saw him eat kibbles and drink earlier today. I offered him two kibbles out of my hand and he ate one, but licked the wet a little. He limps from his right front leg for now.

I put the rest of the pedialyte in their bowl, instead of water. Should I put a water bowl also?

This is day 2 for Medley, so hopefully he will be OK on Sunday. Moby should be fine on Monday.

We already spend time in the safe room, sitting on the floor, talking softly to them. I'm reading them Harry Potter, but maybe they would prefer something else

Tuna is what we call our secret weapon. And we used it right away with these guys. What's funny is that I can pet Moby, but SO can't. Just today he ate a kibble out of my hand, which he refused to do with me up until now, but had no problem eating out of SO's hand from the second day. He's quite the character.

We will definitely try the treat/pet trade!

I will keep everyone updated, thank you all so much!!

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Its a good trick in itself if they have a couple of different water bowls, if you want to entice them to drink more.   One of the bowls may even be stale water.   Some cats prefer stale water...

So, the night went well, the litterbox was used A LOT, so I'm happy with that. I checked on them at around 5 AM, they had drank all of the pedialyte, ate all of the kibbles, and almost all the wet. I put down a fresh bowl of water, more kibbles, and more wet with tuna toppers, and cleaned the box. I saw that Medley had "switched" the limping from his left hind leg to his front right leg. If I didn't know what they had, that would be VERY puzzling. Moby seems less sick than his brother, he didn't change his limping limb, but it is less pronounced.

This morning I changed all the bedding, and I'm washing everything. I also got some good syringes just in case, but they are drinking on our own in front of me. I hope the worst has passed, I was a wreck when I saw how bad Medley was.

Thank you again, @StefanZ@catwoman707! And I did put a second water bowl down this morning.

More good news! Moby isn't limping anymore! I spent a lot of time with them this afternoon, presenting food and water to them, talking, petting when they would let me. I did leave a dirty shirt in Moby's cubby, and one of SO's in Medley's. They spent the afternoon cuddled in Moby's cubby, both on my shirt. And guess what? I can pet Moby now! He let me do it when he was eating kibbles, and again just 10 minutes ago. He didn't try to run, he was just watching me intently.

Medley is doing much better too. He regained some energy, and is now limping from the left hind leg again, but it's less severe than yesterday. He's letting me picking him up and petting him in my arms. And I'm standing up, too. These guys are amazing!

Lyzzie said:

 
More good news! Moby isn't limping anymore! I spent a lot of time with them this afternoon, presenting food and water to them, talking, petting when they would let me. I did leave a dirty shirt in Moby's cubby, and one of SO's in Medley's. They spent the afternoon cuddled in Moby's cubby, both on my shirt. And guess what? I can pet Moby now! He let me do it when he was eating kibbles, and again just 10 minutes ago. He didn't try to run, he was just watching me intently.

Medley is doing much better too. He regained some energy, and is now limping from the left hind leg again, but it's less severe than yesterday. He's letting me picking him up and petting him in my arms. And I'm standing up, too. These guys are amazing!

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Excellent news!!

I think Medley is getting worse. His eyes are a little teary, he began to sneeze, and now he's drooling, and has bad breath. From what I read, the eyes and the sneezing could be an URI, and the drooling and bad breath from ulcers in his mouth. He's still drinking good, and doesn't seem lethargic. I encourage him to eat wet food instead of dry, in case his mouth is painful. What do you gals/guys think? Should I call the rescue and get him seen by a vet today (it's Sunday), or is there some things I can do to help him until he's seen by a vet on Monday? In any case I'm getting him seen.

Lyzzie said:

 
I think Medley is getting worse. His eyes are a little teary, he began to sneeze, and now he's drooling, and has bad breath. From what I read, the eyes and the sneezing could be an URI, and the drooling and bad breath from ulcers in his mouth. He's still drinking good, and doesn't seem lethargic. I encourage him to eat wet food instead of dry, in case his mouth is painful. What do you gals/guys think? Should I call the rescue and get him seen by a vet today (it's Sunday), or is there some things I can do to help him until he's seen by a vet on Monday? In any case I'm getting him seen.

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You've had them for 4 days, time enough to bring out the URI he must have had when younger.

In times of change/stress, while any other time the virus is dormant, stress brings it out of them. 

Usually never like the initial virus, and as he gets older and his system matures, you really won't see it much if at all.

But through the years, an owner might occasionally see watery eyes, sneezing appear out of nowhere, but thinking about kitty's life and any changes, can usually identify what has caused the upset allowing the virus to reoccur.

The drooling makes me think calicivirus. He does need to be given a thorough exam/oral as well and will very likely be given an antibiotic.

This is 2 different forms of calici, one is a URI, the other is the limping syndrome we have been discussing.

Ok, so it's possible the sneezing and watery eyes are brought on by the stress and changes. Since he's limping (he keeps changing limbs), that's probably the form he has, not the URI one. Right now he stopped drooling, and I've been up all night checking up on him, I haven't heard him sneeze either. I'm going to call the rescue and see with them if they want to wait till Monday or not to go to the vet. Do you think it can wait? Can I do anything in the meantime to help him? I'm worried I'm going to stress him out further.

Lyzzie said:

 
Ok, so it's possible the sneezing and watery eyes are brought on by the stress and changes. Since he's limping (he keeps changing limbs), that's probably the form he has, not the URI one. Right now he stopped drooling, and I've been up all night checking up on him, I haven't heard him sneeze either. I'm going to call the rescue and see with them if they want to wait till Monday or not to go to the vet. Do you think it can wait? Can I do anything in the meantime to help him? I'm worried I'm going to stress him out further.

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It can wait until Monday.

It's the URI virus that he likely had as a young guy, and this is for life, but won't be seen unless there is some type of stress happening. (like now)

The limping virus is different than the URI form. It comes, takes about 3 days, and goes, leaving no sign or remains at all later.

If you are stressing, he will too.

It's not going to threaten his life, and won't hurt him, as long as he drinks and eats, drinking is the main thing always, it will be just as it is now and won't become a full blown URI again.

Just to be clear, this is 2 different viruses he is dealing with.

One from a former URI that has surfaced from changing homes, and the other that will be history very soon, and only causes fever, sleepiness, limping, lack of appetite.

Not associated with watery eyes and sneezing.

That makes sense, and is very reassuring to me, thanks for taking the time to explain. I was stressing out all night, but he's been doing fine right now, limping less than yesterday, he ate wet and dry food, drank, used the litterbox, and used the scratching post. I even heard someone playing, but I had no way of knowing if it was Medley or Moby. Moby is completely fine, no limping, he eats dry only, is drinking, and using the litterbox.

I just woke up from my nap, and Shadow, my 4.5 months old female, had her right eye almost crusted shut. She was napping with me, and when she woke up, she did groom her eye quite a bit, and was able to get it cleaned out and can now open it. So, I'm going to get her to the vet tomorrow to get checked out. She had her first shots last month, and was due for her boosters on the 15th.

Lyzzie said:

 
That makes sense, and is very reassuring to me, thanks for taking the time to explain. I was stressing out all night, but he's been doing fine right now, limping less than yesterday, he ate wet and dry food, drank, used the litterbox, and used the scratching post. I even heard someone playing, but I had no way of knowing if it was Medley or Moby. Moby is completely fine, no limping, he eats dry only, is drinking, and using the litterbox.

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This should be Medley's last day with the calici limping virus.

As the day progresses you may see he is getting well again, tmrw morning it should be gone or just about.

Lyzzie said:

 
I just woke up from my nap, and Shadow, my 4.5 months old female, had her right eye almost crusted shut. She was napping with me, and when she woke up, she did groom her eye quite a bit, and was able to get it cleaned out and can now open it. So, I'm going to get her to the vet tomorrow to get checked out. She had her first shots last month, and was due for her boosters on the 15th.

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Shadow is adorable btw with her spying wide eyed pic!    

She should get ointment for the eye, usually terramycin, which is fast and great. 

I do want to mention that, having the boys, you really want to avoid the UTI's that males tend to get, so limit the amt of dry, aim for a mostly canned diet, which is 78-80% water, and is an excellent way to ensure they get enough to keep their urinary tract and bladder working well and clear of crystals.

Ahh! I forget you are fostering them, not keeping them!

Girls can get them too but males more-so.

catwoman707 said:

 
This should be Medley's last day with the calici limping virus.

As the day progresses you may see he is getting well again, tmrw morning it should be gone or just about.

Shadow is adorable btw with her spying wide eyed pic! 

  

She should get ointment for the eye, usually terramycin, which is fast and great. 

I do want to mention that, having the boys, you really want to avoid the UTI's that males tend to get, so limit the amt of dry, aim for a mostly canned diet, which is 78-80% water, and is an excellent way to ensure they get enough to keep their urinary tract and bladder working well and clear of crystals.

Ahh! I forget you are fostering them, not keeping them!

Girls can get them too but males more-so.

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Medley's limp is barely noticeable now. He's got a little more energy, and even played with me, Moby and Shadow with a feather wand toy. Well, he stayed on his back the whole time, but it felt good to see him like this. His eyes are still watery, but I wiped them gently, and the discharge is clear. He's drooling again. He's going to get some "steam therapy" along with Shadow tonight. Moby and Sparrow don't display any symptoms.

For Shadow, I was thinking about pushing her appointment back to next week for her boosters, take a wait and see approach for her eyes, and give her time to get healthy. I'll see with the vet tomorrow when I call about her shots. For now it's just to one eye, she's as energetic as ever.

For the food, tonight was the first meal they ate at the same time. We always give two wet meals a day, and around 30g per cat of Orijen dry for them to munch on in between and during the night. I'm happy to report that everyone ate wet, even Moby! He just needed time to adjust. And the fact that I'm WAY more relaxed today than yesterday and last night probably helped too.

I didn't know that males were more prone to UTIs, that's good to know.

Some pics taken two days ago (they were still very wary) :

Medley is the cream (red?) one, and Moby is the gray one :

What darling boys, just want to squeeze them

Notice the dilated pupils? That's their feral look

Showing tummy is a very good sign, it is the most submissive position for a cat, making them more vulnerable so if he was laying on his back this is very good.

It's always best to hold off on any vaccines until there are no signs of possible illness. Likely won't be more than the eyes but that is due to her system making sure not to be invaded by their virus, so yes, I would hold off.

You just don't want to go more than 5 weeks in between vaccines during the kitten series of 3 consecutive.

Good that you give canned twice a day, that's fine and best.