mid day meal that isnt raw?

our cats are varying degrees of food obsessed. we are concerned 1 might be pica but it was suggested to try a mid day meal with a puzzle feeder 2 see if this helps. they get raw twice a day but bc of work schedule its not the exact same time which might be adding 2 their behaviors. since raw can only be out 4 a short period of time we need something else. wondering if others have this dilemma and if you can recommend a good kibble that wont eliminate the benefit of raw diet? would love input. they gobble their food so might not be getting the full feeling so also considering slow feed bowls.

If money isn't an issue, why not look at some of the freeze dried raw foods available? Sure, they're ideally supposed to be fed rehydrated, but the can be fed dry perfectly safely. Many raw feeders use the freeze dried as a kibble alternative when necessary (especially with kittens and their schedules don't allow for the extra feedings).

Another possibility is getting a timed feeder that will take an ice pack. If you put the raw in the feeder whilst still frozen, it will have defrosted by the home the feeder opens and the ice pack will have kept it at a safe temperature.

Slow feeding bowls are a great idea if they're gobblers Sometimes, though, just smearing the food in a thin layer on a bigger plate (think buttering bread) can be just as effective. Especially with (ground) raw food, I really would try this method first. Not only is it free, but all the slow feeders I've seen are plastic, and that is far from ideal with raw food as it's much harder to sterilise once it gets scratched by kitty teeth

What sort of raw are you feeding? If you make it yourself, you may want to reassess your recipient. Nutritional deficiencies, however minor, are known to contribute (or even cause) food obsessive behaviour. Check out our [thread="272287"]​[/thread] for ideas. [article="31801"][/article]

I just found your thread with Dr Rachel Boltz. I notice she suggests treats in a puzzle feeder as another possibility. It's not widely known, but Purebites treats are actually raw, as well as being pretty low calorie. So long as you don't feed a lot of them (treats should never make up more than 10% of a cat's daily caloric intake) they might be something else worth trying.

I should say, I'm not against feeding kibble. It just seems like you'd prefer to try other options closer to your current food first :dk: Hopefully someone else will be along soon with brand recommendations - I'm not too familiar with US brands

Some great ideas here. The cats and us like the freeze dried better but cost is a factor. thanks for linking the thread. we havent made our own yet just been giving them Steves bc its the cheapest we could find. my husband is more obsessed with raw only but i am still learning and really want to help the cats health and behavioral issues. ironically i hadnt thought of purebites and we have them here. i would like the option of a kibble that is high quality (if there is one). I just really want to see if we address the food issue if our boy will stop eating random things. This week we saw he ate part of a strong plastic chew toy, several socks, and boxers. I wish finances weren't so hard as I want to do what's best for them.
I love the slow food spreading idea. I've only seen the stainless steel slow feed bowls on amazon but still worried the one cat might chip his teeth in his ravenous behavior. Is there a link in this site of the correct caloric intake (i'm new to site)? I've had cats my whole life but we only recently lost our 16 year olds. I never really thought about all the things we can do and learn for our cats (especially since they are our kids). The illnesses, caretaking, and grief has been so hard that we both want to do everything we can to give our new cats long, healthy lives and the pica like behavior is very anxiety provoking. The losses are still so raw that a lot of our desire to research and give the best is out of fear.

If money is an issue, why not just buy a good quality dry food and set out a small amount in a puzzle feeder? I did that for one of my kittens, to help him get through the day while I was at work. I found that if I limited dry to less than 1/8 cup, it didn't affect his stool too much. I use Orijen Regional Red, if that helps.

If you're willing to spend a bit more, take a look at Nature Variety's freeze-dried raw "mini-bites" for cats. They're slightly larger than kibble but work well in puzzle feeders, and unlike most raw treats they aren't odd shaped and don't fall apart or make a mess on your floor. You could also alternate this with dry food, to cut down the negative effects of the dry food and keep costs reasonable.

Definitely I had noticed that my cats chewed on things more when they were bored. Think about environmental enrichment, e.g. cat tree, window perches and maybe even catio, bird feeders in view, fish tank, rotating toys etc. The Petstages chew toys are especially useful. And have regular play sessions, twice a day at least. Chunky food that they have to chew may help. Boneless meat chunks especially gizzards, rabbit chunks from Hare Today, chicken wings and necks. And for Thanksgiving dinner my kitties are going to get a bowl full of turkey giblet pieces and wingtips, and maybe a piece of the neck.

M monkeymind I can understand wanting to everything perfectly for these two after nursing and losing your last pair . I've had to nurse several cats (and a dog) at the end, and am doing it again now with my old greyhound. It's such a touch place to be, and the grief when they finally go is almost unbearable Feel free to start a thread in Crossing the Bridge for them if it would help

Back to your question - on average, adult cats need around 20 calories per lb of bodyweight. This can vary though (just like people do), with some needing fewer calories and others needing more. This article explains it [article="31116"][/article]

sophie1 makes a great point about boredom being an issue with destructive behaviours, so regular supervised playtime should help at least a little. If it is true pica, though (which, going by the sheer quanity of destruction, sounds very likely), play and extra stimulation won't completely eliminate these behaviours. I think you're going to have to systematically go through your home and thoroughly cat proof it, and get into the habit of never leaving anything accessible. You may find more help with managing the pica in the Behaviour forum. One toy I always recommend for pica cats is compressed catnip balls. Because they're pure catnip they cant do any harm, even if chewed up and swallowed.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help.

You could do freeze dried raw, canned food like Ziwipeak or Feline Naturals, which don't have any fillers or anything, or Ziwipeak makes an air dried "kibble" which is basically just jerky meaty bits. 

thank you for all the tips. i havent gone to this sites OTRB but have been in another group. 

Trying to make our house safe is quite a challenge but i've been doing everything i can. and trying to get my husband to look at the house the same way.  it's so hard that he likes fabric bc its everywhere in some form or another.

i've started the puzzle feeders and right after he finished he just bit through my new nightgown. Nonetheless will keep trying this and the air prey time to see if it makes a difference. havent decided on a kibble yet, just been using the treats we have bc i'm having a hard time figuring out the fiber content. we''ve been giving them Steves Real Food and I cant figure out the math but also did not see taurine listed!  is taurine listed as something else?  we've stuck with steves bc of price and time constraints but if the nutrition content is wrong that could explain some of the behavior.

not sure if i mentioned before but he was always food crazy but his suckling turned to biting and swallowing after his older sister died. He was with her for about 5 months. He has other cats to play with but that was a noticeable stress change.

Taurine isn't listed as something else - at least, not to my knowledge. All meat contains some taurine, but the best sources are offal, especially heart and liver.

It might be worth calling/emailing Steve's and asking for a complete nutritional breakdown - something they should be able to provide you with (I'd be pretty worried if they couldn't!).

You're absolutely right to focus on the nutrition first - it's a relatively easy thing to check and, as with all behavioural issues, ruling out physical causes is always the first step.

Have you tried something like a bitter apple spray for fabrics (and anything else tempting) that can't be removed? I've no idea if it would work with pica, but it's definitely worth a try.

It sounds very likely that the death of his sister triggered the pica. As I'm sure you know, stress is so often a factor in triggering abnormal behaviours, and you don't get much more stressful than bereavement I'm not certain how much that will help you going forward (initial triggers for behaviours aren't always the same as those that keep it going), but it's certainly good to know.

Agree that the chewing behavior was triggered or at least worsened by stress.  It's hard on a kitten being alone also, they do much better in pairs.  So it was kind of a double whammy, losing a buddy and also the play interaction.

I doubt that lack of taurine would trigger the pica, and otherwise it sounds like you're doing well on the nutrition front.  Environmental enrichment and interactive play are important - as is cat-proofing to whatever extent you can.  Your kitten might be too young for this but have you tried catnip, or catnip chew toys?  Also, growing cat grass in containers might attract the kitten away from dangerous things like fabrics.

For what it's worth...I've been down this road too.  All my furniture corners have tooth marks on them.  It was especially notable when they were kittens, but even now...one of my cats got it into his head to pull the weather stripping off of each and every storm window in my apartment.  He has made it his personal mission in life.  Originally, getting a second kitten did more than anything else to cut down the chewing behavior, followed by regularly scheduled interactive play, and the Petstages pretzel shaped chew toy.  He chews on it daily, and it gets destroyed within a few weeks.  Putting out cardboard boxes helps too - they play in them and chew up the corners of those instead of my furniture.

in the last few days i've been recognizing triggers for him wanting to chew and gotten him interested in the worm. 3 days later, a piece of the worm is inside him.  but i'm hoping its  bc it was an older worm. i have a new one i'll test out next. he loves the compressed catnip and has almost broken down half the ball in 3 days as well. i've been doing the mid day puzzle feeder- he is really smart and sometimes opens it. the other cat has an easy pet feeder and it confuses him. i'm still looking for good puzzle feeder options. he loves his play time with us but even 2x a day getting him panting he still goes for fabrics. order bitterapple to try that as well. his bowels have been coming out with lots of colors so we aren't sure if he was backed up longer or if he's got a secret stash location. everyone's tips have been really helpful. i am still trying to figure out the nutrients. we have 3 cats so free feeding seems dangerous as it led to obesity in our last cats but have read about food anxiety. our other cat had a rough 2 year upbringing before we got him and his records say he was bullied and had either real or perceived threats to food. when it is food time his tail gets crazy big. so after trying out different things, nutrients, vets, we may have to look at this as we are provoking both their food anxiety- but were not there yet.

any one know of a good puzzle feeder? he is a cat too smart for us or his own good but super lovable!                                              

Puzzle feeders helped me get through my ambitious cat's kitten year.  Which was closer to two years in reality.  Basically I got every type I could find:  puzzle feeder balls, the kong toy, the smart cat cardboard box.  I also made ones from toilet paper tubes (cut holes in them and cover the ends) and yogurt cups hung from doorknobs.  I also set up treasure hunts before leaving for work in the morning:  hide treats around the house and let the cats go hunting.

I tried the bitter apply spray but it didn't have any noticeable effect.  I went through two iMac laptop power cables (those things are pricey!!) before I finally solved the problem by wrapping the cord around a table leg to keep it from dangling.

Another great "chew" toy:  Hare Today raw rabbit chunks.  Make sure you supervise though, in case of choking especially when they're not used to it.  I also had to deal with the cat who grabbed it, started growling and hissing, ran under the bed, then proceeded to wolf it down and then barfed it back up.  UNDER THE BED.

Catit Design Senses make a couple of maze/puzzle feeders that look good. Trixie make some puzzle board type mazes too.

I can't recommend from personal experience though - my cats don't believe in working for their food! If I try a food toy, it gets a sniff, followed by pointed glares and baleful meows directed firmly at me :lol3: