Vet recommendations about injection sites related reactions : intra-muscular injections. Thoughts?

Lyzzie

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I just got my second cat, Shadow, on Monday. She's a female black kitty, with little patches of white on her chest and belly. She's following us everywhere already!

I took her to the vet on Tuesday, for a check-up. She's estimated at around 4.5 mo, because she still has her baby teeth. She weights 1Kg 800gr, and is healthy. She got her primo vaccines done, and FeLV.

Just like with my neutered male cat Sparrow, she presents a growth at the site of the injection.

She was given Leucofeligen, from Virbac. The shot covers calicivirus, viral rhinotracheitis virus, panleucopenia virus and FeLV.

After reading a lot about vaccines-associated sarcomas, I'm a lot more cautious about reactions to vaccines. My late Kyran never had any problems, but Sparrow does, and now Shadow.

I went to the European Medicines Agency's site and read about Leucofeligen. Here's the pdf on it if you want to read it : http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB...Information/veterinary/000143/WC500063754.pdf

From my research, I know that the point of live attenuated viruses is that they are not used with adjuvants like aluminum. But with Leucofeligen, there is aluminum because of the FeLV vaccine.

Sparrow and Shadow need the FeLV vaccine because we foster cats, but there is no live attenuated FeLV vaccine, it's just not possible.

I asked one of the vet techs about it, and she proposed that we do the shots inter-muscularly next time, because there is no reactions from that. the fact that they have a reaction to the injections is now written in both their charts.

I didn't research this method yet, but I wanted to ask you gals/guys your opinion about it. Do you know about this method, and if so, what do you think?
 

blueberrygirl

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Hi Lyzzie!  I wasn't aware inter-muscle injections were an option!   My cat had an injection site reaction two weeks after her shots (dental work/anesthesia).  I wanted to put that out there in case it happens to others and they worry it's something else because of the delay.

If this happens to you, be careful that the vet is accurate.  Blue's bump grew from pea-size to quarter-size within 3 days.  Super scary.  The first vet I took her too said it was an abscess--I did tell him regarding Blue's dental appointment--told me they had found pus and gave me advice for a warm compress and antibiotics.  It grew even bigger despite the medication and near constant heat.  Took her to another vet.  Turns out it was solid and a reaction to the injection site. (I was in the room this time for the needle biopsy)

The  histopathology came back negative for cancer, but the vet recommended surgery to remove the lump anyway considering its size.  I opted to wait two weeks to see if it would subside on its own, and it did.  You can't tell it was ever there by looking, except for the shaved bit, and only a trace of it if palpating to find it. 

THere you are.  Hope others find this info useful.  
 
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Lyzzie

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Thank you @BlueberryGirl, the exact same thing happened to Sparrow, for his first vaccines and his boosters a month later. The vet did not do the injection at the same site, but lower. And the bump was worse than the first time. I'm not subjecting my cat to this kind of risk. From what I read, the culprit is likely to be the aluminum used as a adjuvant in the FeLV vaccine. The other vaccines are attenuated live vaccines, without adjuvants.

I'm really looking for info on these intra-muscular injections, and I can't find a lot. It's either old (1973!!), or just doesn't exist. Well, I'm sure it's out there somewhere, I just can't find it! I want something current, so I'm thinking of contacting a veterinary school or something, to get some more info. I will post my findings here.
 
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Lyzzie

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I'm still searching, I can't find anything on that subject! Google is usually my best friend, but I get guess he's finding my requests just not worthy of his time


Shadow didn't have a reaction after all, or a really minor one that disappeared fast. She's going back for shots next month, I hope I find info before getting her to the vet.

I'll keep you gals/guys posted.
 
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Lyzzie

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Thank you so much @White Shadow that was exactly what I needed! I looked into subscribing to JFM but it's not cheap!! I will do it, but not now, so thanks again for sharing this article.

So, intra-muscular (IM) injections are a no-no, because it doesn't lessen the chance of a reaction, and if there is one, it's going to be harder to detect. I don't want that to happen.

There is still much debate about vaccine-related fibrosarcomas, and recent studies doesn't show that adjuvanted vaccines are more at fault versus modified-live vaccines.
 Although current information as outlined above does not clearly show differences in risk of FISS development between modified-live and inactivated vaccines, some Advisory Panel members consider that, on balance, risk might be mitigated by the use of modified-live vaccines.
That was my intent before reading the article, although not for the same reasons. I thought feline injection-site sarcomas (FISS) were better understood than that, at least the part where adjuvants like aluminum were the likely culprits. So i wanted to avoid adjuvanted vaccines as much as possible.

I also learned about vaccination sites protocols. I'm not happy to say that my current vets, and the vets where I was going before, are all doing it "old school". I'm not letting any vet inject something in my cats' necks again. Shadow is due for her second dose next month, and Sparrow for boosters in February. I'm going to call another clinic (the one the rescue uses the most), and see with the vet there. I had a really good feeling with him, I think he's going to at least hear me out, and be willing to discuss.

Anyway, my new plan is this :

- Find a vet that's willing to talk about things

I'm thinking if the vet is willing to do things according to protocols, talk about brand of vaccines, adjuvanted vs modified-live vs recombinant (that's one of the possibilities for the FeLV, with or without adjuvants), then we're all set.

I remember my current vet warning me beforehand about "small inflammation reactions" when I went for Sparrow's primary vaccines the first time. He told me to "put a warm wet compress" on the site if it happened, and "not to worry, that's perfectly normal". It's weird that my late Kyran didn't have any adverse reactions at all, and now two cats that are probably not biologically related have them. I know FISS are not understood very well, but I just find it weird. Or it's the brand used. Sparrow and Shadow got the same brand, but I don't know if Kyran did. I'm going to check right now.
 
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Lyzzie

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Okay, so I've done a comparative table with my cats vaccines : brands, injection sites, reactions, etc...

And there is definitely a genetic component, Kyran and Sparrow have had the same brand of vaccines, injected at the same site, and one didn't have any reaction, one did.

I already knew that because the studies have shown that, but seeing it for myself was good too.

I went to the vet, and talked a long time with one of the assistants. We still haven't decided anything, but she didn't talked about IM injections, which I wouldn't have given my OK for anyway. The options are :

- Stop vaccinations (NOT an option for me and my kitties)

- Give the primo injection on one site, and the FeLV on another site (my theory is that the adjuvants in the FeLV are the ones causing the reaction) : She thinks it's not viable because then the cat would have two reactions' sites instead of one. I'm not convinced, and that's something I'm wiling to try, but at the same time I would feel like I'm experimenting on my cats. I don't know about that option yet.

- Give the vaccines as always, and give an anti-inflammatory injection to help with the reaction. I was on board until she told me that would be Metacam. Here in France it's authorized for cats, and I've done quite a bit of reading on it, because my late Kyran was on Metacam for 10 days. I'm convinced it's what caused his renal failure. I told her that, and explained a bit, and she agreed that he should have never been given a course without blood analysis before and after (he was 10 at the time, and no blood analysis was done until it was too late). Anyway, that's still a very sore subject for me. She told me that giving one injection of Metacam was way safer, but I just don't want to.

What other anti-inflammatory med could be given then?
 
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Lyzzie

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So, Shadow should have had her shots on the 15th, but she got sick (she's fine now), so in agreement with the vet, we pushed that back to the 23th. While we were there, we talked a little about FISS, and he actually knows about the injections needed to be done on different sites. So all should be well, I'm going to ask that she gets the FeLV on a different spot than the rest, even if it's more expensive.

I'm also monitoring Shadow right now because she did get shots of antibiotics and anti-inflammatory med on 2 different sites to treat her (calicivirus suspicion, even tho she was primo-vaccinated, see my thread here for more info : New fosters - Medley & Moby - Advice welcome). I'm waiting to see if new lumps forms or not. The one from her first vaccine shot is still there, getting smaller, but there.
 
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Lyzzie

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Shadow didn't have any reactions on the injection sites from last week. So today, she went in for her vaccines, and got Typhus and Coryza on one leg, and FeLV on the other. I'm pretty sure the FeLV is going to give a reaction, but we'll see. She still has a tiny bump from her first shots a little more than a month ago.
 
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Lyzzie

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Well, there was NO reactions whatsoever from the last two vaccine injections. So, I'm thinking maybe the size of the needle plays a role here. I'll ask the vet next time we're in.
 
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