Severe Heart Murmur in Potential Adoptee

courtneyla

courtneyla

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Hi everyone! 

My sister and I are looking at adopting Mr. Bean, a five month old kitten with a severe heart murmur. The shelter we're adopting from is reluctant to perform an x ray, saying that it won't determine anything of use. Basically we're going in blind if he survives his neutering this week. 

We already know that his life span could be less than six months or he could surprise everyone and live for years, I'm just annoyed because the vet won't even look into the cause of the heart murmur and we don't have extra money to perform a lot of tests, although we are going to phone a vet about an x ray or to see if they could help us determine cause once we adopt him. Basically we just want to know if it'll lead to heart failure right away.

I was just wondering if any of you have any advice or information? 

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mingsmongols

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He'll need an ultrasound from a cardiologist, probably once or twice a year. Their might be medicine's he can take as well. Taking care of him will be an expensive endeavor.
 
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courtneyla

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They mentioned that but didn't suggest we go through with it as the vet said the last case she saw that was this bad only lived about six months further :/ 
 
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Heart murmurs can be related to several conditions such as HCM, SAM, ect... Some conditions don't effect them much, others can be maintained with medicine's, some cause sudden death, and others a slow miserable slide to the end. Without an ultrasound there's no telling what the real condition is. A murmur is a symptom not a condition in of itself.
 
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courtneyla

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I've emailed my other kitten's vet to find out how much they would charge for testing. Besides the murmur the kitten eats well and has no other issues. Basically I'm annoyed because the Shelter could do testing they just don't really want to.. I feel as though they're just writing the poor little one off and he deserves better than that. 

I've been doing my research too so I understand, I just wish they did. Thank you so much for your input! 
 
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I am a human doctor, a cardiologist, but not a vet and any advice I give should be checked with a vet.  

A heart murmur is not necessarily a diagnosis of heart disease, a murmur is the sound that the flow of blood makes if there is an eddy or vibration in the blood flow over a valve that is irregular, leaking or narrowed. Murmurs are heard by using a stethoscope.  

The valve may be only slightly irregular, but it can produce a loud murmur of no concern.  The loudness of the murmur is not necessarily significant, a leaking valve can produce a soft murmur, not easily heard, but this murmur can be of great importance.  It is where the murmur is in the heart cycle that is much more important than the loudness

Any investigation of a murmur begins with a stethoscopic examination of the chest.  Further examinations to determine if the murmur is significant or not may  include:

1.   A chest X-Ray to see if the heart size is normal,

2. An echocardiograph to determine whether the chambers of the heart are enlarged, and if so, which chamber(s).

3. A consultation with a cardiologist.

The minimum investigations to assess the significance of a murmur should include an X-Ray - and an echocardiograph if the veterinarian has  any concern.

With all best wishes,

Geoffrey
 
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mingsmongols

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A specialist vet, a cardiologist, is what's needed to come up with anything other then a wild guess. They probably don't want to drive several hours to a specialist just to spend $400 plus on a test when they have limited funds and other animals to take care of. I'm really surprised they didn't just put him down, most shelters would. I know its frustrating that they didn't do more for him but I'm betting someone in the office at the shelter fought really hard to get him placed up for adoption.
 
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courtneyla

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MingsMongols said:
A specialist vet, a cardiologist, is what's needed to come up with anything other then a wild guess. They probably don't want to drive several hours to a specialist just to spend $400 plus on a test when they have limited funds and other animals to take care of. I'm really surprised they didn't just put him down, most shelters would. I know its frustrating that they didn't do more for him but I'm betting someone in the office at the shelter fought really hard to get him placed up for adoption.
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That is very true, they did say a specialist from a nearby city offered to drive down for Mr. Bean but I'm unsure what happened there. Thank you for reminding me that the little dude is lucky to even be here. I appreciate the reminder!

Thank you for the insight Geoffrey, I really appreciate it! 
 
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He is really lucky. He's even luckier to have someone like you thinking of adopting him. Your not just jumping right in but taking the time to learn what the procedures and outcomes of his condition might be.
 
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CourtneyLA said:
 
Besides the murmur the kitten eats well and has no other issues. Basically I'm annoyed because the Shelter could do testing they just don't really want to.. I feel as though they're just writing the poor little one off and he deserves better than that. 
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Further to my last post, sudden death on exercise could be due to a narrowed valve producing what is called an aortic systolic murmur. (I have seen a human teenager who fainted on a school run.  He was found to have a narrowed valve and was treated surgically).    Other than this uncommon condition, I do not believe that the kitten would be in any immediate danger and, if he were mine, I certainly would not euthanise him until I knew what was the significance of the murmur.  Even then, I would give him as much of a life that he could enjoy.

The fact that the kitten eats well and is active is a very good sign, but he does need investigating - and it is likely that the shelter did not have the funds for a full examination....

Geoffrey
 
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artiemom

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My guy has a heart murmur...

as @Geoffrey  has responded and advised, it could be a 'normal functional' murmur..Geoffrey has given a lot of great information..

I can relate to your story. I adopted my guy, expected an adult (8 yr old) cat in fairly good physical health. 

On the our first Vet Visit a loud heart murmur was detected.. not disclosed not even know by the shelter. 

To make a long story short.. I was furious at the humane society for not telling me about this. I could not return him, as he was  my adoptee..my love.. and who knew what kind of care he would get.

I ended up having an echocardiogram with a cardiologist. It turns out, Artie has a functional murmur. It is kind of similar as to people (a lot of women) who have functional heart murmurs. 

Artie is now 12.7 (almost 13) years old. He has not had a repeat echo since 2012. I am thinking, that because of his age, I may do one next year--just as a follow-up...

Artie has never, in the 4.5 years I have had him, displayed any symptoms at all: no shortness of breath, no panting, no coughing, no swelling in legs or belly. He is slowing down a bit, but he is also getting older and is on a lot of medication for IBD and chronic constipation. That is the only reason why I am considering an echo for him...just to be aware of stuff.... and to get the internist off my back about it...

I am hoping, that if the Humane Society you have seen Mr Bean at, will be able to get him to a cardiologist for an echocardiogram. That is the only way you can really know if there is any damage to the heart...

In other words, a heart murmur, even a Grade IV, as my guy has, does not have to be life threatening situation. It just needs investigation.. In my guys situation, it is from the pulmonic valve not closing completely, but the heart was not showing any distress from it...

I would think that if you are showing any interest, and to be fair to all, your Humane Society should be scheduling Mr Bean for an echocardiogram with a cardiologist.. a lot of them do it at a major Vet hospital, and doctors have some offices, or do some portable work at a Vets..

Good Luck..... and sending 
 for both Mr Bean and yourself...

FYI, I have a heart murmur also.. a lot of women have one. I have mitral valve prolapse, where one of the leaflets of the mitral valve bows back a bit when it closes.. I have had the for my entire life.. I am 62 yrs old now, and still functioning...I think!!
 
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courtneyla

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Artiemom said:
 
My guy has a heart murmur...

as @Geoffrey  has responded and advised, it could be a 'normal functional' murmur..Geoffrey has given a lot of great information..

I can relate to your story. I adopted my guy, expected an adult (8 yr old) cat in fairly good physical health. 

On the our first Vet Visit a loud heart murmur was detected.. not disclosed not even know by the shelter. 

To make a long story short.. I was furious at the humane society for not telling me about this. I could not return him, as he was  my adoptee..my love.. and who knew what kind of care he would get.

I ended up having an echocardiogram with a cardiologist. It turns out, Artie has a functional murmur. It is kind of similar as to people (a lot of women) who have functional heart murmurs. 

Artie is now 12.7 (almost 13) years old. He has not had a repeat echo since 2012. I am thinking, that because of his age, I may do one next year--just as a follow-up...

Artie has never, in the 4.5 years I have had him, displayed any symptoms at all: no shortness of breath, no panting, no coughing, no swelling in legs or belly. He is slowing down a bit, but he is also getting older and is on a lot of medication for IBD and chronic constipation. That is the only reason why I am considering an echo for him...just to be aware of stuff.... and to get the internist off my back about it...

I am hoping, that if the Humane Society you have seen Mr Bean at, will be able to get him to a cardiologist for an echocardiogram. That is the only way you can really know if there is any damage to the heart...

In other words, a heart murmur, even a Grade IV, as my guy has, does not have to be life threatening situation. It just needs investigation.. In my guys situation, it is from the pulmonic valve not closing completely, but the heart was not showing any distress from it...

I would think that if you are showing any interest, and to be fair to all, your Humane Society should be scheduling Mr Bean for an echocardiogram with a cardiologist.. a lot of them do it at a major Vet hospital, and doctors have some offices, or do some portable work at a Vets..

Good Luck..... and sending 
 for both Mr Bean and yourself...

FYI, I have a heart murmur also.. a lot of women have one. I have mitral valve prolapse, where one of the leaflets of the mitral valve bows back a bit when it closes.. I have had the for my entire life.. I am 62 yrs old now, and still functioning...I think!!
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Thank you very much for this, my sister and I had a good smile knowing that Artie is doing well! And you also, my step dad has some sort of murmur too (all the interns at the hospital love hearing it lol).

The Shelter doesn't want to perform an echocardiogram, I think they don't want to put money towards it as they think he'll die within the year. However, my sister and I are waiting to hear back from Olivia's vet to see what we can do! 
 
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courtneyla

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My only question is: My sister said she hasn't noticed him snoring the past couple nights except he started to snore earlier today (he's still playing, eating, drinking, and the like). I guess I'm just paranoid. Could the change mean anything?
 
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