New here. Socializing a feral and introducing to indoor cat. How to mitigate hostilities.

bless my cats · Oct 10, 2016

Not sure if all the questions belong here but here goes. There's a feral I have been feeding that I took to vet for neutering and shots. We have been bonding slowly. He plays rough. Bites and scratches. I have used hissing to stop him. He now sits on my lap and purrs. Wants to come in. Gradually introduced my indoor cat. She is also a street rescue. Behaviors have fluctuated. They have sniffed noses without hissing maybe 3 times. Other times, they hiss and/or growl. Once they swatted and I broke it up. He is still an outdoor cat. I feed him inside in the hallway so they can interact a little. She approached him to sniff him while he ate last night. He, of course, hissed. When he subsequently tried to come inside, she growled and stared him down.
I tried the pet calming collar that a neighbor gave me (not sure if brand) on him once. He disliked it and I took it off. Tried it on her once. Made her less fearful, but am not sure if it's because the collar works or because it distracts. Read scary stories of collar dangers. Am not happy with it. Took it off her after his visit. Also tried Feliway spray. The only real sign it helped was when I sprayed my clothes after he had been on my lap a long time. It kept her from freaking out. The night before, when she smelled him on my skirt, she growled and bit my skirt. A bad sign, in my opinion. But then there are times they sniff noses without hissing. A lot of confusion. I do not have space for a safe room. Nor do I have outlets in the places where a Feliway diffuser is needed. So if anyone has insights on helping these two to cooperate, please help. He forgives me after I hiss at him. With me, anyway, he is curbing the biting. Has gone from attacking my hand to now, very rarely giving me gentle love bites. Genuinely gentle. (I have had ferals before but each situation is different.) Thanks to everyone. I truly want him inside before the snow comes.

calicosrspecial · Oct 10, 2016

Thank you so much for caring for the feral.

I have taken in and introduced ferals to my indoor (former) ferals and have had success. It really is a process and must be done slowly. Personally, I have found that ferals are pretty easy to integrate probably because they had to "get along" with other cats out in the streets.

One that that you mentioned may make this situation more difficult. Do you have a room that the feral can go into and that can be used to go through the formal introduction process? I have always had the new cat in a room with the door closed. Then I went through the formal introduction process.

Also, I have found that food is the best way to a ferals heart. I use hard food, then build trust using wet food, and then build more trust with warm chicken thighs. Then always go at the pace of the feral, never faster than they want to go. So I never initiate contact, I always let them initiate the contact. They typically start by rubbing on your legs. Then they start head butting you and then your hands. Always try to stay low with them so they don't feel intimidated. And take it slowly from there. When the trust is built up then the process goes easier in my opinion.

When you have the outside ferals scent on you try feeding your inside cat (again their favorite foods). I use warm chicken. We always want to try to associate the other cat with good things especially food (also with play if they play, height, and love especially getting them to purr). I always try to make the cats feel special and that they other cat is not a negative but a positive. And I try to make every interaction as positive as possible. The more positive interactions the more confidence and trust will build up. And the more confident and trusting the cat is the more likely they will get along.

So my first question is, do you have room that is big enough for the outside feral and that has a door that can be closed in order to begin the formal introduction process?

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/the-ultimate-yet-simplified-guide-to-introducing-cats

If you don't have a separate room then maybe we could use the hallway and try to use that to go through the formal introduction process. but I truly believe the introduction process must really be done.

I'll try to help you out and I hope others can add some advice. But we'll do our best to help you get that feral inside to safety. Let us know. Thanks for caring about these cats so much.

bless my cats · Oct 10, 2016

CalicosRSpecial said:
Thank you so much for caring for the feral.
Thank you! As I said, I don't have a safe room this time. And I have introduced ferals in the past, but this is an entirely different situation.
Both cats are confused at this point.

Indoor cat has known about the outdoor cat for at least two months. Has seen him many times. They are actually working on it. He hisses when she crosses his boundary, just as she growls when he is in her territory. In the past, my success came from establishing myself as Alpha. Much trickier this time. By the way, he is two and still wants to play. She is six and still wants to play.

I have taken in and introduced ferals to my indoor (former) ferals and have had success. It really is a process and must be done slowly. Personally, I have found that ferals are pretty easy to integrate probably because they had to "get along" with other cats out in the streets.

One that that you mentioned may make this situation more difficult. Do you have a room that the feral can go into and that can be used to go through the formal introduction process? I have always had the new cat in a room with the door closed. Then I went through the formal introduction process.

Also, I have found that food is the best way to a ferals heart. I use hard food, then build trust using wet food, and then build more trust with warm chicken thighs. Then always go at the pace of the feral, never faster than they want to go. So I never initiate contact, I always let them initiate the contact. They typically start by rubbing on your legs. Then they start head butting you and then your hands. Always try to stay low with them so they don't feel intimidated. And take it slowly from there. When the trust is built up then the process goes easier in my opinion.

When you have the outside ferals scent on you try feeding your inside cat (again their favorite foods). I use warm chicken. We always want to try to associate the other cat with good things especially food (also with play if they play, height, and love especially getting them to purr). I always try to make the cats feel special and that they other cat is not a negative but a positive. And I try to make every interaction as positive as possible. The more positive interactions the more confidence and trust will build up. And the more confident and trusting the cat is the more likely they will get along.

So my first question is, do you have room that is big enough for the outside feral and that has a door that can be closed in order to begin the formal introduction process?

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/the-ultimate-yet-simplified-guide-to-introducing-cats

If you don't have a separate room then maybe we could use the hallway and try to use that to go through the formal introduction process. but I truly believe the introduction process must really be done.

I'll try to help you out and I hope others can add some advice. But we'll do our best to help you get that feral inside to safety. Let us know. Thanks for caring about these cats so much.

calicosrspecial · Oct 10, 2016

No separate room, that makes it a bit trickier.

Are you feeding them near each other at the same time? If not, I would start by trying to get them to eat 8 feet away or so to start. That should help them associate each other with something good (food).

How exactly are they interacting right now and where (I assume it is the hallway). Does the outside feral want to get into the residence?

There are some positives so I think it can work, let's try to figure this out.

fornana · Oct 10, 2016

Hi welcome to the cat Site

I suggest using this protocol when introducing cats: " In cases of inter-cat conflict, for example, a reintroduction protocol could be used.The protocol is divided into three phases: olfactory habituation, visual habituation and direct contact habituation. The duration of each part is variable, depending on the severity of the conflict, the cats’ response and the owner disposition. In the olfactory habituation phase, each cat is confined to a different part of the household and all important resources (including food, water, litter box and scratching post) are provided in both areas. Each cat is then moved to the other area so that both animals are exposed to the other cat’s odour. Additionally, using a piece of cloth, the secretion of the facial gland of each cat can be applied to the cheeks of the other cat. The visual habituation phase can start when both cats are relaxed during territory exchanges. In the visual habituation phase, visual contact between cats through a mesh door, for instance, is provided when cats are engaged in a pleasant activity. Cats are otherwise kept separated and the duration of the visual contact sessions is gradually increased. Finally, in the last phase of the reintroduction protocol (direct contact habituation), the wire mesh is removed".

Since you don't have a separate room a crate may work.

I have two ex-feral cats, and also did not have a separate room so I used a large crate. In the crate I had their water/food bowels, and a litter box with a bed and some toys. I would leave the newbie in the crate and then every couple hours I would place my other cat in my bedroom, and let the new guy explore. Then at night I would take my cat to my room to sleep and I would let the newbie freedom to the rest of the apartment.

This admittedly lasted only 3-4 days. Both my cats are very submissive, and neither of them even hissed at each other during the introduction phase.
To my surprise they get along brilliantly.Your experience may be different. This introduction phase is very important and it may take your cats longer.

For both my feral cats it did take them months to feel comfortable in their new space, and not feel the need to hide.

They both would hide under the couch. I would just let them be. I never would force them to do anything. I would talk nice to them, and play. I would get down to their level, and I wouldn't make sudden movements. If I was walking passed them I wouldn't give them much attention. They slowly grew to trust me. It just takes time.

I hope everything works out! God Bless you for having the heart to help out an animal!

bless my cats · Oct 11, 2016

Some specfics. They have sniffed noses without hissing, but also hiss and growl at times. My resident girl went over to sniff him while he was eating. He hissed. She approached him while he was on my lap. He growled. He entered my residence on at least two occasions. She growled. They are both lap cats with me. Both are possessive of me. My resident girl has begun spraying in the bathroom where he investigated. Her box is in the bathroom. I set one up for him in the kitchen. He has not seen it. She "knows" it's his. Has not touched it. He eats at my door with it cracked just enough so she can smell him from the other side.
He seriously has tried to come in. She stares him down. He turns around and goes to the hallway. She is curious about him. Tried to sniff his butt several times. He hissed. The growling concerns me. But it's not consistent.
Resident cat has smelled him on my clothes and hands many times. Once a disturbing reaction from her. She grabbed my skirt and started biting. After that, I started spraying Feliway on my clothes.

Has anyone used the vanilla trick? My intuition says it's appropriate in this situation.

He sleeps on my lap and rubs against me. She smells him on me. The vanilla trick might be the necessary tension reducer.

She has walked by his food without touching it. He doesn't hiss if she smells it.

fornana · Oct 11, 2016

Great observations! Happy to hear things are coming along.

It sounds like there's some tension, but not any extreme hostilities.

The new cat has certainly grown attached to you. If you see them hissing or growling some positive distraction might be helpful. Keep your toys and treats handy! New cat furniture, w/o the resident cat's smell, may make the newcomer more comfortable. Although I'm not sure if right now is the right time to buy any new cat furniture since they may be on the cusps of a piss war.

I've never tried the vanilla trick. I do like to use candles, and incense besides vacuuming, dusting, and cleaning surfaces. My male cat does spray from time to time ,mostly due to the litter box being too full, but it's usually on something like a towel (or my $200 boots). I then just throw that item away.

My cats actually use one littler box. I do have an extra litter box, but they both use the one.

bless my cats · Oct 12, 2016

Latest development. When feral and resident were both in hallway, they briefly sniffed. He entered my apartment. Resident cat followed and made him leave. Plan to put her in a crate or carrier so he can explore. He's ready. She is not. But she's curious about him, so worth a try.

calicosrspecial · Oct 12, 2016

I have found that it is very common for the newcomer to be more comfortable than the existing/resident cat to begin with. So I tend to really work on building the confidence of the existing/resident cat(s) so that they feel like nothing is changing for the worse. A lot of play, good food, places to go high, and a lot of love should help build the confidence.

With that said, I am not sure I would put her in a crate so that he can explore. I am always leery of taking any territory away or introducing anything that could be potentially taken as a negative by the existing/resident cat. I always try to make sure any experience is a positive experience between the existing/resident cat and the newcomer. If possible can you distract the existing/resident cat with play and food and/or love and let him explore? Or get him in a crate (though I don't want him to freak out). Personally given what you have written I think he would be fine with your home so I am not sure there is a real need to have him explore. I personally would really try to get the existing/resident cat to be comfy so that she faces as little change as possible and I would do that via feeding by the door and scent swapping and all the things you are doing which I think is great.

Would love to hear what ForNana thinks.

fornana · Oct 12, 2016

In my personal experience it seems like the resident cat is always more guarded.

Putting the new guy in the crate @ some point might be good for your resident cat too. That way she can look him over and smell him w/o feeling threatened. Make sure when they are together that they are doing pleasurable activities like eating or playing.

I think it will def. take some time for them to adapt (especially the Resident cat). Just another suggestion, but make sure to avoid making loud sounds or anything that will startle your cats. If they see each other presuming defensive stances they might attack each other out of fear.

I hope you see great progress soon! Curious, but have you choosen a name for the new cat?

fornana · Oct 12, 2016

Haha I just read your post Calico! It looks like we were both thinking similar things.

I do agree! It's important to treat the resident cat with up-most sensitivity.

Putting the Resident in the crate will no doubt cause her more stress; especially having the new guy in-view checking out her space. Fear is bad for cats. Fear can be deadly.

If you want the new guy to explore it may be better for the resident to be kept in a room as opposed to a cage, and out of her view. That though will cause her stress too though because she will still be able to hear & smell him.

When I had both my feral cats I did not put the resident in the crate at any point. I honestly didn't spend much time comforting my resident cat. She is such a submissive sweetie she never showed any negative signs. I feel like that was not the typical reaction among new housemates....

For some cats a new cat in your territory is enough to want to kill. My parents had fostered a kitten, and their resident legit tried to bite it's head off it's 3lb body.

Keep observing them. I love your observations, Do not leave them alone as I'm sure you are already aware. And do not try to break them up with your hands if God forbid they attack each other! Cats can leave very nasty bites!

bless my cats · Oct 14, 2016

Thanks everyone. Time for more updates. Some good. Some bad. Last night feral wanted to come inside. RC said no. She startled him away from his food when he was eating. He showed his understanding by moving several yards away. After he watched her from a distance, he approached and quietly stared her down. She went back inside. No hissing but later, when he saw me petting her, he growled. Very clear sign of jealousy. Tonight they sat about 8 ft apart. It seemed okay till he sat on my lap. RC came over and tried to play with his tail. He hissed. I hissed. Then he cuddled. Then my error: I talked to her. He became truly feral angry. Ears back. Hissed. Swatted my hand. To his credit, he tried to keep his claws in. Got a tiny pinprick. That's all. But now RC is showing her feelings are hurt. She won't sit on my lap. And FC is still outdoors. He is bonded to me and won't share at this point. We are at an impasse. Could still try the vanilla trick. Or I can find him a home before I damage my bond with RC even more. Please, everyone, help me with this. My heart is heavy. As for cat bites, yes, have had a few. Years of practice, right?
P.S. What breaks my heart is that she (RC) shows curiosity. Tries to sniff him. Tried to play with him. They are on alternating currents. He tries. She rejects. She tries. He rejects.
Maybe time out? Don't let them see each other for a while. My RC is sending me clear messages of hurt feelings. She comes to sniff him on me then sits to the side, refusing my lap. Before tonight, she was willing to sit on me even if I smelled like him.

Am using Feliway at the door. Not sure it helps.

Has anyone had success with the vanilla trick? Perhaps keep them completely apart for a week, then let them see each other with vanilla on all of us?
Please, my cat friends, I need help. Years ago, I had a situation with a hostile cat, badly socialized. It took me 3 years plus one more cat to get him to admit he loved the "enemy" cat. Different situation now. And 3 years is not the way to go this time.

bless my cats · Oct 14, 2016

One more thing. My hissing was not good. It made the point and he seemed to forgive me, but he is determined in his possessiveness of me.
Jealousy is perhaps deadlier than fear. My multicat past experience was very different. The alpha cat was fully socialized and everyone got along. It was magical. No comparison.
I did try feeding them about 6 ft apart. He ate. She did not. Something to work with if I don't give up. Gave my RC a new scratching pad as a way of making her feel more secure. She likes it very much.

So you all know the back story: I fed this feral when he was an adolescent outside last winter. A neighbor trapped him. I took him to my vet and got his shots and had him neutered. We have bonded slowly over time. My RC has lived with one other cat who died almost two years ago. She is now accustomed to being alone. So that's the dilemma. I need to honor both relationships.

calicosrspecial · Oct 14, 2016

Bless my cats,

Hang in there, I think there is enough here for it to work. It is not an ideal situation but it can work I believe. It sounds like your are experienced and determined so if there is anyone who can do it it sounds like you can.

With that said, I have cats that get a little jealous at times both towards the indoor cats and because of the ferals I feed outside (when I take them their food and come back with their scents on me).

I use food and play to build the confidence of the existing cat(s). A cat forgives a lot when they are confident. When they get happy and play and then eat good food. Then when they warm up give them love (either eye kisses to good petting to get them to purr). I always try to make sure the existing cat(s) never forget they are loved and special. That nothing is really changing. The more positive things they can enjoy with the scent of the other cat around the more likely they will associate the other cat with good things.

Try to make sure the interactions are as positive as possible. If it starts getting a little funny try to distract with food or play. But try to make things as positive as possible. Especially with food. Food really distracts and works wonders. And ferals really respond to food, they are very food motivated.

Please let me know if you need any clarification on the above. Hang in there.

fornana · Oct 15, 2016

I agree with Calico you are doing a excellent job, and you do seem to have the experience for this ambitious task

The longer certain behavior persists, the more likely it is to become a habit. It's important that cycle is broken early on. Ensuring they both have positive experiences around each other is very important.

One big cat fight cause lots of damage to their trust. I do see their curiosity toward each other as progress. It shows they are open to trusting each other; even though their attempts ultimately fail @ the moment.

Cat 'Jealously' happens to me once in awhile too. Abraham@times will bite Flavia if I'm giving her attention, and he'll jump on her too when I bring home new toys and she goes by them. Thankfully it only last a few seconds, and she doesn't retaliate.

I've had no experience with Feliway. I've read studies that support it's claims, and some that disprove them. It wouldn't hurt to keep using them. I do humbly believe certain odors have a calming effect (depending on your genes). I've read studies about horses being calmed by Lavender. I've unfortunately could not find any studies tested on cats using Lavender.

Food is a way to a feral's heart as Calico suggested so definitely utilize that for the outside cat.

As for the RC that's great you gifted her a new scratching post. Continue to shower her with attention, and if you can some more new toys.

Giving a time out right now might cause some friction. Cats don't like to be confide. So I'm not sure if that would be helpful. It may translate to more stress/aggression.

"I need to honor both relationships." That's truly a noble and admirable statement.

I sincerely hope it works out between the two of them, and if doesn't I'm sure you would be able to re-home the outside cat, but it seems we all still have hope it can work.

bless my cats · Oct 16, 2016

Hello fellow cat friends. A quick report. Many neighbors are getting to know FC. Tonight when he and I and a neighbor were talking, my RC came out and walked by FC. She was just a bit too close. He hissed and swatted her with his paw. She seemed to ignore it. What the neighbors have observed is that he is becoming friendly towards them, thanks to the work I've done with him. They have seen him follow me, sleep on my lap, etc. My concern is that he will not share me. I have one lap. He has claimed it. My RC has also claimed it. This area is his territory. If one of the neighbors offers to give him a home, it might be best for all of us. When he and I and neighbors talk, he rubs against the neighbors. A very good sign. I have socialized him to the point where he lets the neighbors pet him.
Granted it's good that my RC did not retaliate when he hissed and swatted her. But my guts tell me he would attack her full force given the opportunity. She has made overtures. He continues to rebuff her. Alpha street cat. He wants me to himself.

I love FC very much and want him to be happy. If he can become attached to more humans with my help, that would be to his benefit.

I will continue to work with him and RC, but am also now trying to find him a home where he can be Alpha Cat with an understanding and loving human.

That's where I am tonight. Giving him up would break my heart but seeing him happy would make up for it.

Thoughts?

bless my cats · Oct 16, 2016

Calico,
I would like nothing more than to have FC fall in love with RC for my sake. A separate room would be ideal. But at some point, both RC and FC will want to sit on my lap at the same time. It would take a miracle for them to accept taking turns.

Also noticed some scabs on FC's head tonight. Some fighting, perhaps? There are several possums in the area. I worry about him constantly. Want him to have a home before the snow. We have had a warm fall, but the cold is coming soon. He wants a home and is showing it.

calicosrspecial · Oct 17, 2016

You have done an amazing job socializing the feral. The fact he rubbed on your neighbor is AWESOME!! And the fact the neighbors can pet him is INCREDIBLY AWESOME!!.

The easiest route would be to find a good home with a family that understands ferals and is willing to put the time and work into making it work. If it is possible it would be easiest and if the neighbor is close you could always visit. But it has to be a home that understands what is needed.

Time is not on our side. No question.

Given time I think they would share you but it would be a process. A lot of confidence building. Cats are pretty amazing and from my experience ferals can be very tolerant especially when they know their needs are taken care of. But it does take time and proper introductions are helpful.

I take care of ferals and I know exactly what you are going through. I am full up in my house and I have 6 ferals I take care of outside. I WISH I could bring them in but it is impossible. I worry about them all the time, from coyotes, other cats, humans, etc. I love them and they love me. I wish I could protect them more but I am doing all I can do (which I feel is still not enough). It is very hard on the heart. If I could find them a home I would but it is nearly impossible, everyone is full up. But I know exactly what you are going through. But you are doing a great job.

I know you will do the right thing for everyone involved. Whichever route you take we'll be here if you have any questions. ForNana is knowledgeable and terrific and hopefully between the two of us we can help you which ever path you choose. I know how hard it is but you are doing a great job. We'll be here for you.

bless my cats · Oct 19, 2016

Hello, everyone. I thought we made progress last night, but tonight we seemed to take some backward steps.
Last night I played with each of them at the same time, making sure they were at least 4 ft apart. Used string and a cat dancer toy. When FC had enough of a visit, he asked to go outside. It was warm enough that he slept on my lap for a long time. When I woke him up so that I could come in, he let me know his feelings were hurt. Tonight he came for dinner, but was moody. Growled when RC came out. Didn't really want to play. He did sit on my lap. Gave him cat kisses. But he also got annoyed again. Not vicious, just irritated. I didn't push him. He didn't want me to pet him at one point. He also didn't want to finish eating on the other side of the door separating him from RC. Asked me to take his food outside.
He clearly wanted come inside last night.

Tonight he wanted to come inside, but kept a greater distance from both RC and me.

He is still greeting other tenants.
The weather is starting to change.
Am so worried about him.
Questions:
He avoided the area where I sprayed Feliway. Is it actually possible he didn't want it to affect him?
Have any of you used the cat calming collar? A neighbor whose parents do cat rescue gave me one. I have read mixed reviews. Please advise. Am quite confused about it.

Thanks very much.
Calico, especially looking forward to your insights. You, too, ForNana. Thanks to both of you.

calicosrspecial · Oct 19, 2016

With ferals it is very normal to take a few steps forward then a step back. It is very normal.

GREAT that they played within 4 feet. Play builds confidence and anytime they are together without a chase, attack etc it is positive.

I would be surprised if he was annoyed because you had to go inside the night before. Not sure exactly what might have caused him to be different but it does happen. It could be he wasn't hungry, or he wasn't feeling well, or maybe there was another male cat around. It really could be anything. Great that you did not push him. Going at the pace of the cat is key. But he did go on your lap which is still positive.

Can you think of anything that might have been different other than you had to go inside? I think he will have a better mood the next day or 2.

I know you are worried about him but cats are resilient. Ferals are very smart. But he would be better off being inside.

On the questions I really don't know. I am not a big believer in feliway and just don't have the experience with it and I have never used the calming collar. Hopefully For Nana can help.

Please keep us up on how things are going. You are doing the right things, keep it up.

New here. Socializing a feral and introducing to indoor cat. How to mitigate hostilities.

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