I let feral Minou inside. Need cat language translation!

I see lumber in the landlord's van, and i'm pretty sure it's for a door frame. Yay! They haven't called and i shant bother them till they are ready to do anything.

A little something happened last night. Minou was uber excited to see me when i came back from out of town (i was gone 10 hours) and i was sitting on the ground on the porch. He kept getting on me to be petted, and seemed 'on edge' and intense a bit like that time he creeped me out. He was just very wiggly and seemed insecure and a bottomless pit for affection. And at some point i was just pulling my hand away from his head after a rub, like last time he bit me, and he made the movement to bite me. Except he didn't. His mouth opened and he moved forward towards my hand but changed his mind. Well well...
Love bites?

He was more inclined to come in today, but changed his mind when he heard the mailman\lobby door slam\metallic mailbox sounds. He growled and went to the back door to get out.

No idea if he still has the runs, but only one dose left of fenbendazole to give before the 10 days break.

Him and Pixie continue to look at each other through the window and i give her treats for not hissing. But then i opened the window (there is a screen) and she sniffed the air, and he climbed further up the sill and she hissed in his face, and at me. I closed the window, waited for her to get calmer, and gave her treats for not hissing. Not going to be easy...

Some just get a little over threshold from stimulation, even if it's petting that they like.  I have two like that and I watch them carefully when we are having pets.  What starts out as love bites with one start to get a little harder, her eyes get intense, she gets wiggly.  She's the easy one, the other one sort of freezes and stares at me.

If you've read my threads you know I'm doing about the same as you in bringing Joey in.  Joey does a lot of the work himself, he does not want to fight and he makes all kinds of appeasing moves, like turning his back to the others, grooming himself, walking away from them - all with his eyes and ears tuned to what's happening behind him.  He does try head bunting them for an embrace, which surprised the heck out of all three.  He's ok with one, I can leave those two alone in the house together.  The other two I treat them all to show good things happen when Joey is in, I pet them all for the same reason.  Play absolutely did NOT work as they get competitive over playing with me.  If I am making supper or something I constantly look in on them to make sure all is going well, can't fully trust two of my girls yet, I do trust Joey.

Hissing is not too bad.  Hissing is a warning.  It precedes a run at each other, if all you get is hissing and the recipient respects the hiss I think that's an encouraging sign.  I do have one who likes to launch a sneak attack from behind and some cats do this, again, I watch.  I don't get much done sometimes.

Piano Cat said:

Play absolutely did NOT work as they get competitive over playing with me. 

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I actually thought about that. It would be better if we were two watching over and getting their attention separately.

Before i forget, how to do break up a cat fight? Cause there seems to be many school of thoughts on that. The cat behavior specialist i wrote (he\his team are kinda famous and are on TV here) and who told me to not ever let Minou neat Pixie also prones not meddling in cat fights. I KNOW i'l have so many questions when i'm at that point with them, but i'm already wondering what all of you mutli-cat\friends of ferals do when a fight breaks out.

Someone told me that i pet him too much. I have stopped petting him when he doesn't ask for any pets, but sometimes he seems so hungry for affection. It makes me feel weird and i encourage him to step off me and go eat instead, but he comes right back to me, all wiggly like yours. I guess i'll have to keep learning about his signals. When he gets like this and it's too much, i stand up. I have seen the thought of him jumping on me passing in his eyes sevaral times, and that's when i start walking around. The thing is, i get taken hostage on my porch. I can't go back inside as i know he will jump over the barrier and i won't be able to get him back out for a while. Sometimes i don't have time for that.

Minou seem to respect her hisses. He usually goes away after a while. He seems calm. 

I have not read your thread about Joey but i'd like too. Can you tell me the title so i can search for it? This forum is so big....

As i type this, i am waiting for my landlord to come back from the hardware store with all the stuff needed to build a door frame and a door. I'm so lucky!
They told me this will be my Christmas gift in advance

Some cats have very sensitive skin and get overstimulated with too much petting. I'm sure that's what the nipping is about--I have a few who react that way, too. You'll learn to recognize the signs when the petting is getting to be too much. You can also express affection by just holding him in your lap or resting your hand on him. Be careful and watch for infection if a cat bite breaks the skin--it's easy for bacteria to enter and for the wound to be infected. If a bite becomes infected, a course of antibiotics will take care of it.

A spray bottle filled with water is usually effective in breaking up fights, and it's harmless. They get a little wet, and they get the message. Try clapping your hands loudly first and telling them to stop, and if they don't, spray with water.

You have a very generous landlord  

They are indeed generous! They also have come to love having Minou around the yard and want him to be well.

This cat goes and looks for my hands when he is overly enthusiastic about seeing me. He will just walk across my lap in a never ending loop and head butt anything of mine that he can. I try and distract him, presenting his food dish so he will get off me and calm down cause he kinda creeps me out when he is this intense. I hide my hands sometimes, even. He just wants it so bad, but then boom, he doesn't want it no more till he wants it again.
I feel a bit guilty but i'm avoiding the porch right now cause i've been gone for hours. He has plenty of food left in his dish and fresh water. And shelter.

Maybe he will become blasé about it at some point after some time as part of our little love circle.

A little update; Day 4 of metronidazole and i have not been able to monitor his stools as he hasn't pooped in his litter box in days, only peed. I have no idea if he is constipated or if he simply poops in the wild.  It doesn't help that he doesn't stay in more than 1 hour at a time, partly cause he has been hearing more noises from my direct floor neighbor who has been talking on the phone a lot. It makes Minou growl and want out. My flat is not sound proofed so whenever clients of my landlord come in a out, hearing the lobby door slam scares him. So he has been refusing to leave the kitchen to come hang with me in the linvingroom and explore. Just goes to show he will need lots of time to get used to his surroundings, and to me. To me knowledge he is not gassy anymore, so there's that.
The door frame is done but my landlord has been very busy so the door is still not installed. I wish it was as he wanted in last night and i couldn't. Pixie gets stressed when i lock her in my bedroom for more than 15 minutes and i don't want her to be this anxious so the door will be great for that also.
He still eats well but i'm wondering why he didn't use his shelter last night as it was quite cold and humid overnight.

Pixies Ma said:

I have not read your thread about Joey but i'd like too. Can you tell me the title so i can search for it? This forum is so big....

 

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So sorry I have not replied.  Dog to Vet, cat to Vet, new baby, there's been a lot going on here recently.  I don't have a specific thread devoted to just Joey but maybe some of these links will show you what I have done and am doing.  We have another cat outside who has been here four years yet is slowly starting to friendly up so I've included threads I made about her as your Minou actually sounds as if he's a bit between Joey and our Chinny.  

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/321538/the-magic-stick

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/322163/next-dilemma

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/323247/afraid-of-the-tv

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/325015/feral-stray-conversion-to-pet-conundrum

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/326195/progress-on-conversion-of-feral-to-household-pet

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/326355/bit-of-a-scare-last-night

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/326486/joey-youre-neutered-cut-that-out

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/326979/avoided-a-catfrontation

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/322067/four-years-and-just-got-the-first-real-pets

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/327201/this-cat-is-going-to-break-my-heart

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/327624/feral-stray-is-a-good-catalyst

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/327874/poor-scared-joey

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/328613/apparently-our-peaceable-kingdom-requires-my-constant-presence

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/328790/playing-in-the-snow-do-yours-like-snow

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/328747/joey-was-so-good-at-the-vets

Wow, I made more threads about Joey and Chinny Chin Chin than I thought.  Maybe something in one will help, especially the comments I got from other people here.  But I sure don't expect you to read all that.  At this point Joey is in all night and often during the day.  Two residents are still not happy with him so I can't live them alone for long, but now I feel I can answer nature's call myself without fearing a fight outbreak.  There never has been a fight because I'm watching.  Chinny, I don't know she'll ever come inside.  She will sit on my knee outside for pets but leaps away at a noise a movement.  Last night I just had to cough and she stayed on my lap and that's progress for Chinny, with her it's very small steps at a time. 

@Piano Cat  No worries! Sorry about the critters, but congrats on the baby!

Minou is unimpressed by all the noises *i* make (all of them...) but fears anything related to other humans, and i suspect, Pixie. He has so much to get used to, and that door is going to be a really good thing for him to remain inside longer and get used to all of it. Heck, Pixie still doesn't like it when people talk loud in the stairway so poor Minou is getting a challenge for sure wth this.

I will read your words in small doses throughout the weekend. Thanks for the links!

The baby was my nephew's first child.  She had a hard pregnancy, sick the WHOLE time, back labour, so we were keeping close tabs.  Baby and mother are fine and healthy.

Joey was afraid of funny things for a cat who must have been a pet.  He is VERY cuddly with me.  But same as your Minou Joey won't go near any other neighbours (and several love cats and have their own) or visitors.  So one of my threads is about how well he handled at the Vet's, something I was worried about, having another former feral who will suddenly freak out and once ended up on the ceiling.  You know those ceiling tiles that are like drywall with pinholes in them?  Yup, she ended up clinging to one of them at the Vet's once.  

Door finished! Now Minou can spend the night inside if he wants.

@Piano Cat  I laughed hard at the ceiling bit.

Aaaand Pixie already tried to 'jump over' the white carton sheet, which caused a shock to the door frame and damaged it a little. She is crazy that one. He eats 2 feet from the door no problem and she watches him from the slim opening at the bottom of the door. But when he moves away and she sees him on the cat tree, she jumps as if to go attack him?
He is unimpressed and has been in for 2 hours, eating and sleeping.

Its a great door!  Pixie may need some time to adjust.  He's on her tree, right?  That might be an issue for her.  Any way to get him his own and move hers to her side of the door?

Oh...I've had that tree for a week only, and they have been swapping scents on it since day one. I'm not sure that she has already made it her own?
Once i'm recovered from having spent so much on that one, i will get another tree for the livingroom. The one in the kitchen is so big it won't fit anywhere else. I should be able to put shelves in within 2 weeks though.

Yes, the cat tree was a place of catroversy at our house.  Lucy is quite sure it belongs to her and Joey has decided, after a mild squabble, that he will only use it when Lucy is not around.  I would be careful of Pixie and Minou for a while anyway.  Even if the tree is new a place up high is a place of power and can be intimidating to another cat.  Intimidating on purpose maybe.

Oh they won't be in direct contact for a loooong while. They sniffed at each other just now, almost nose to nose, and Pixie did not hiss or growl. She watches him intensely though, almost flat like a pancake on the ground. Not sure if it's a stalking position or not. Like if she would pounce if there were no door.

I'm going to have to get another one of them big ugly cat trees, right? Sigh...I've looked for 5feet ones instead of the 6 ft i have right now, but they are not that much cheaper.

I just let Minou out. It had been 5 hours and he is not sleepy anymore. I had time to witness another smelly diarrhea. Not sure if he is that heavily infested with whatever he has, or if it's a side effect of the Metronidazole.
I'll call him back in before bed in an hour or two. Hope he comes back.

I'll have to strengthen the door frame tomorrow. It won't hold if Pixie keeps crashing into it.

@Piano Cat  You need to get yourself a Friend of ferals badge. You earned it

Aww no...Something happened. Minou growled at Pixie. He has never done this and i find this worrisome.
He came back from his rounds all happy and affectionate, and i locked Pixie in the bedroom so he could hang with me in the livingroom. This was to prevent him getting bored all night in the kitchen, and to swap scents. She goes in the kitcken\cat tree when he is outside, so there is swapping for sure. Anywho, him and i had a little love fest on the couch, he groomed, and i led him back to the kitchen cause i could hear Pixie scratching at the door and stressing. So he was back in the kitchen and she was looking at him through the crack of the door, i turned around 5 seconds and i heard the door rattle (i don't know who swatted at who, but there was no warning sounds), and he meowed\growled as she did nothing. He growled some more and turned back. Pixie seemed nervous and surprised.
This is probably typical cat talk, but it's the first time he's acted out towards her. And they have been smelling both their scents all over for a while, and seeing each other through the window...
What gives? I find this very discouraging. 
I am so new to this and i was so focused on Pixie staying calm at the sight\smell of him that his reaction seemed out of left field and once again i fear for her. He is so much stronger than she is.
And sometimes i ask myself why is he the only one to have survived 4 years out there and still be in good shape? Maybe it's cause he kicks butt out there and despite the feeling i have he gets bullied by the other owned males out there, perhaps it's just an illusion. Perhaps he is not that submissive with other felines
Has he claimed the kitchen so soon and was protecting his new territory?
Geez, when he growls, it sounds like something straight out of hell. So deep.
And i though, there is no way i'm going to worry all night about the door breaking and them fighting. So till i can fortify the door frame tomorrow (it's a bit late for hammering), i put him out for the night.
He did not want to get off his warm bed inside, but i tricked him with treats. 
I feel bad, but i am scared.
I'm sorry for all my rambling and anxiety, but i'm back at the point where i think this is not going to end well.

Actually, I think its a good sign.  He's asserting himself a little, letting her know he lives there, too.  Pixie has been a bit of a princess, rightfully so as if was her house first.  But he's letting her know he's not having it anymore.

My cats do that all the time and they've lived together for seven months.  Before that, two were outside cats and one had her own room.  When we moved to this house, I brought them all together and, although it took awhile, they have settled into cohabitating.  They hiss a little, growl sometimes and once in awhile, they swat or posture.  I've learned to say something light  "Oh, my, what's happening?" or something of that nature.  Saying it in a light, cheerful voice makes all the difference.

Remember, both cats are going to pick up your mood.  If you are frightened, they will be too.  Because they do not know what you are frightened of, they will assume it's something that upsets them (and that would usually be the other cat).

Try to treat it like you would with kids who are fussing at one another.  You would speak to them reassuringly and then move on.

I think reinforcing the door is a good idea, too.  No sense in letting them be able to physically get to one  another until the time is right.

Just remember, you are doing a good thing and the time it takes now will pay off later.  They may never be besties but they will learn to co-exist.

Double ditto Ondine, especially on the growling.  Same as with dogs, growls are oral communication, a warning.  Without growls we might have fights or bites with no warning and thus no chance to forestall them.

I mentionned a mild squabble Joey and Lucy had over the cat tree in my post above.  It went like this.  Once Joey lost his fear of the tree he bounded up to the top one day when only he and Lucy were in the room together.  I deliberately introduced him to Lucy first, of the mother/daughter trio she's the most easy going with my other cats.  The look on Lucy's face was priceless, complete surprise and a bit of shock that the newcomer would top on HER tree.  While Joey was looking out the window Lucy snuck up to the level just below Joe, stood up, reached out a paw and lightly poked him.  Joe turned to face her, advanced to look over at her and let out a long, low, growl.  It was clearly a warning to Lucy to not sneak up and poke him and said, do that again and I will tell you off more emphatically.  Lucy backed down, hunched her head, turned to face away from Joe and s l o w l y descended to the floor.  Lucy said, "Ok, I wont do that"  Joe turned to look back out the window but then he soon got down again and I haven't seen him go up there with Lucy in the room since.  It was fascinating to watch this little interaction.  I was ready to jump up and intervene when I saw Lucy sneaking up but I thought, no, I'll let them work it out, and they did.

Thanks for your reply!
I was pretty confident till he growled at her. Now i'm back to scared and discouraged.
Pixie is my little princess. She was so wee and so ill for so long. She is fine now, but i keep noticing how small her head and neck are compared to Minou.
He's a bit weird this morning. I think he spent all night on my chair (not in the shelter) and was not chipper as usual. I let him in and, of course, it took him an hour to finish his Metrodanizole laced meal. He peed alright but did not poop. He has gas though. Then i let Pixie out of the bedroom but he did not come to the kitchen door. She was looking at him on the cat tree and doing that sound that pigeons make? Sortof a cooing with soft meows. She does that when she plays with balls or demands my attention from another room. He sometimes let out a meow that almost seemed to end in a growl.
Gah! Cat lingo is not my forte. 
Anywho, Pixie seemed to pay too much attention to him so i took her in another room and played with her. Then he started meowing softly from the top of the tree. So i went to see him. Talked to him, he continued to meow softly. Then i went on the porch for a smoke and he followed me, same meows. He seems to have trouble with his balance a bit today, like he seemed a bit weak. I took all his stuff out, and he started eating his kibble. He ate for two on Friday but not yesteday. He drinks a lot though. I hope his kidneys are alright but i guess he would be drinking even more if he was going into renal failure.
I don't know...I worry about his health too, and the fact he still has the runs on day 6 of Metro. Perhaps the pills are making him feel sick.
And perhaps it's why he is grumpy towards her.