Mostly Mutts

ganesha0 · Sep 27, 2016

Winchester said:
Rick's father was Jackie's person. His mom didn't give a darn one way or the other.

@hbunny , that's exactly how Jackie sounds. We honestly worry that somebody is going to think we're dreadfully abusing that dog and we're not. I swear we are not. I'm sure the neighbors hear her and I know their dogs hear her because her screaming gets the dogs all in an uproar, too.

I just talked to my SIL; she knows the woman from Mostly Mutts and she's disappointed that we've not heard anything. If we don't hear anything by Thursday afternoon, she says she will contact the woman to find out what's going on and what our options are.

@Kat0121 , thanks for those links. If this doesn't work out with Mostly Mutts, I'm going to start using them to try to get more information.

We have never re-homed an animal before in our lives; we have always been able to work it out somehow, although the hassles between my M & Ms aren't going well either, and, believe me, we are not happy at all that we have to re-home Jackie. We really had high hopes that we would work it all out and we were so excited when she came to live with us. But I can't do it. I won't do it. Rick is done, too.

I hope the list in this link is helpful:

http://www.beagles-on-the-web.com/adopt/

Columbine · Sep 27, 2016

Kat0121 said:
That's probably it then. Rick's mom and Jackie never really formed a bond.

I'm sure that the neighbors don't think that of you at all. I'd wager that they know better.

Mostly Mutts should have called you back by now- at least to give you some kind of information. The fact that they did not is highly unprofessional.

You're welcome. Glad to help. I really hope you find something and soon. Do not feel bad about having to re-home her. You really have tried everything. It just wasn't meant to be. Hopefully someone can lead you to a foster or someone who will just adopt her who can give her what she needs. Having her in the house is detrimental to everyone in the household- even Jackie herself and I completely agree with everyone else. You, Rick and the cats have to come first. It's not the ideal situation but it is what it is and you absolutely did try to make it work.

Sometimes animals don't work out. It's absolutely NOT your fault Pam :uuh: Jackie clearly needs someone to be home with her all the time, and with the best will in the world, that isn't possible for you or Rick. There is no shame in that at all. Rehoming Jackie is the best solution for everyone at this point - Jackie included. It really isn't good for her health to be getting so worked up either.

I'm sure your neighbours aren't thinking that you're abusing her. They'll KNOW that neither you or Rick wold ever do such a thing.
If you have difficulty finding her a shelter/new home, then you could look at trying her on Prozac or some other anti-anxiety meds. There are no guarantees that it would work though, and you'll have at least a 6 week wait to find out if it's making a difference. I really think this is a lifestyle issue for Jackie - she clearly needs her people around her to feel safe, and I'd guess that this anxiety started after Rick's father passed...especially with your MIL not bonding with her. This has been building for so long now that she's unlikely to fully get over it.

I wish we were closer - if we were, I'd take her gladly.

:hugs:

I really hope you're able to find her a place soon :cross: :vibes:

Winchester · Sep 27, 2016

No, no, this did not start when Rick's father passed away. This started pretty much as soon as his parents brought her home as a very young dog. Any time his parents would go away anywhere, no matter how long they were gone, they came home to the screaming dog. His dad thought it was cute "Oh she missed us! Listen to how she missed us!" and didn't do anything to stop her. Nothing. Because he thought it was absolutely adorable.

Rick's dad eventually go to the point where he would hardly ever leave the house, only to come visit us and only for very short periods. But that wasn't because of the dog; as he became elderly, he simply didn't want to leave the house anymore. And then the brain cancer hit. But no, this behavior had started right away, pretty much as soon as they brought the dog home. So by now, it is severely ingrained in her psyche that she can behave this way. And she has had years to perfect the screaming. Honest.

We didn't know how bad it was with the dog. Rick's mother never told us just how bad it was. We knew there were separation anxiety issues because they talked about how cute Jackie was when she missed them when they went away. We did not know she was as bad as she is. And truly, we thought we could deal with her and handle it....we didn't know she was a complete nut case.

As for Prozac, her vet told us that it would take at least six weeks for it to take effect, if it would.....evidently, it doesn't work on all dogs.

She would be great in a home with a retired person who doesn't really leave the house all that often. Now that she's been around the cats, she's really quite fine with them. I think I mentioned that if Jackie goes for a drink, if there's a cat already drinking at the water dish, the dog will actually sit down and wait for the cat to finish. (Unless it was BooBoo; she would stand by Boo's side and they would drink from the dish together. Boo didn't care; Jackie didn't care.) So she has kitty manners; that's a good thing. She and Mollipop do not get along at all, but that's a jealousy thing. Mollipop rules the house and Jackie doesn't like it one bit.

Willowy · Sep 27, 2016

I'm not sure if the Prozac would take 6 weeks to see ANY effect. Maybe the full effect but from what I've heard you can usually see some effect right away. Someone on my dog forum has a progression thread about medicating her dog (who would freak out any time she saw another dog or certain humans or sometimes vehicles, etc.) and she saw some improvment right away. And she said the dog doesn't act sleepy or sedated either (after the first few days of adjusting to it). And that the improvement has been wonderful for everyone. So if you think you'll have her for a little longer it might be worth starting her on it. . .could help her at the foster home too.

denice · Sep 27, 2016

I think separation anxiety is one of the most difficult things to overcome. I have watched Victoria Stillwell and Cesar Milan work on it on their shows. Victoria Stillwell believes it is the most difficult thing to overcome. After this many years she probably just needs to be in a home where someone is almost always home.

hbunny · Sep 27, 2016

I definitely think that it is in her best interest (as well as for everyone in your household's mental health) to rehome her. Sometimes there isn't any other option, and it ends up being the best for all parties. It really sounds like you have tried all means possible to help her anxiety and behavior modification. I really think Jackie needs to either be somewhere with a person who is home almost all of the time, or with a home with another beagle or dog that she might form a pack-type relationship with. I feel for you guys and the cats! That sound, I've never heard anything like it, I'll never forget it either. It was horrific. It seriously sounded like somebody was torturing an animal. And it was the same scenario you describe, he would do it whenever he was excited, and it would just go on and on and on. He would pee too whenever anyone petted him. I have had many dogs throughout my lifetime, some excitable ones too, but none ever made that kind of sound. Sounded worse than a goat screaming!

Winchester · Sep 27, 2016

While I still haven't heard from Mostly Mutts, my petsitter just emailed me and suggested that we not put her there. Way, way too many dogs and they're in cages in outdoor kennels. We can't do that to her. No. Mostly Mutts is pretty much overwhelmed and so is Haven to Home. All of the local no-kill shelters are also completely overwhelmed. She suggested that, with her problems, we simply put her down.

If we end up keeping her, she will be drugged. That's all there is to it. She will be drugged.

denice · Sep 27, 2016

When I was very small my parents had a dog put down for behavior issues. They told me that they gave him away and I was young enough to believe it. Later I found out that he was more than just a biter but could be vicious to others but not to me. One day he knocked me down and nipped me under my arm and that was it. I know now what happened. He was mostly German Shepherd and at that time only female dogs were spayed, males were left intact. Had he been neutered he probably wouldn't have went the way he did.

Sometimes euthanasia is the only practical answer. I doubt that she is really happy, not because of anything you have done or failed to do, it's just the way it is. A pen in an overcrowded shelter situation isn't going to help her.

Willowy · Sep 27, 2016

There's no shame in medicating her for anxiety. It's no different than giving her insulin or antibiotics. She's not happy if she's anxious.

You might also try advertising for a private re-home, if you're up for it. It takes a lot of screening but sometimes you can find just the right person.

I hope it all works out!

artiemom · Sep 27, 2016

Pam I have been watching this.. just an idea, is there any way you could just kind of keep Jackie, while working with a humane society to find her placement with a person who can give her the undivided attention that she needs..

Kind of like a foster situation, until an adaptor comes along??

That was just a thought...I do not know what I would do, if I were in your situation.. I have my doubts about putting her down...

I know my humane society does not have a shelter site, except for PetSmart, but they do have tons of fosters. The cats are also listed on PetFinder... Do you know of a shelter who could help you do the same.. I mean, you keep Jackie until the shelter finds a home for her??

Also, if she needs medication, then this would be a good time to try it...

I know your funds are stretched, but could even behavioral modification work.. I mean with a trainer--or even a consult with one..

You have been through so much lately that I really hesitate to suggest the above...

Winchester · Sep 28, 2016

I would prefer not to keep her at all at this point. I'm sorry, but we're just tired of the drama. It's worn us out. The shelters around here are all cages; I've checked and I don't see anybody who would be willing to foster like that, other than Haven to Home and they are way overwhelmed. They don't have enough people to foster anymore. And I don't want to do it.

You're right, our pet funds are pretty much stretched to the max right now, especially with dealing with Boo's death and cremation, and then Ms. Pepe's UTI, and I have no desire to take her to training class. Our budget can't do it right now, so it would have to come out of my personal funds....and I just don't have it. Nor do I want to deal with taking her to classes and Rick refuses to deal with it. Period. We're pretty much done. (I can tell you that, had we not already paid for our trip to Vermont, we wouldn't even go at this point. The only reason we are going is because we've already paid for the class and for the motel rooms.)

That being said, we had another talk last night and I think we're stuck with her. We don't know else to do. We don't want her. But we don't want the rest of her life to be miserable either; after all, she didn't ask for any of this. This morning, I'm going to call her vet about Prozac. I mentioned the Prozac to Rick and his first thing was, "Money, Pam." And I get that. I told him I'd see how much it would cost and we'll take it from there. And then drug the hell out of her.....OK, not really, but.........

I got home from my hair appt last night and she was wild. Rick was back in the computer room, checking on shelters, so he didn't get her calmed down and til I got into the house, she almost knocked me down the steps. We keep a gate across the top of the steps so we can get up the steps, but she knocked the gate down. I got to the top of the steps, Rick got out to the living room and we both just roared, "STOP IT! STOP IT!" She did lay down on her bed, but she was still screaming. And that was with somebody there; she wasn't even alone last night while I was gone. And for a while, Rick had her back in the computer room with him, so she wasn't alone. (When we're both back in the computer room, we'll bring her bed back with us and she'll come back and lay on her bed on the floor, so she's still with us. We really try like heck to accommodate her because of her anxiety.) There was absolutely no reason for her to act that way. None. And that's what we don't get.

Thanks for listening/reading.

Kat0121 · Sep 28, 2016

Winchester said:
I would prefer not to keep her at all at this point. I'm sorry, but we're just tired of the drama. It's worn us out. The shelters around here are all cages; I've checked and I don't see anybody who would be willing to foster like that, other than Haven to Home and they are way overwhelmed. They don't have enough people to foster anymore. And I don't want to do it.

You're right, our pet funds are pretty much stretched to the max right now, especially with dealing with Boo's death and cremation, and then Ms. Pepe's UTI, and I have no desire to take her to training class. Our budget can't do it right now, so it would have to come out of my personal funds....and I just don't have it. Nor do I want to deal with taking her to classes and Rick refuses to deal with it. Period. We're pretty much done. (I can tell you that, had we not already paid for our trip to Vermont, we wouldn't even go at this point. The only reason we are going is because we've already paid for the class and for the motel rooms.)

That being said, we had another talk last night and I think we're stuck with her. We don't know else to do. We don't want her. But we don't want the rest of her life to be miserable either; after all, she didn't ask for any of this. This morning, I'm going to call her vet about Prozac. I mentioned the Prozac to Rick and his first thing was, "Money, Pam." And I get that. I told him I'd see how much it would cost and we'll take it from there. And then drug the hell out of her.....OK, not really, but.........

I got home from my hair appt last night and she was wild. Rick was back in the computer room, checking on shelters, so he didn't get her calmed down and til I got into the house, she almost knocked me down the steps. We keep a gate across the top of the steps so we can get up the steps, but she knocked the gate down. I got to the top of the steps, Rick got out to the living room and we both just roared, "STOP IT! STOP IT!" She did lay down on her bed, but she was still screaming. And that was with somebody there; she wasn't even alone last night while I was gone. And for a while, Rick had her back in the computer room with him, so she wasn't alone. (When we're both back in the computer room, we'll bring her bed back with us and she'll come back and lay on her bed on the floor, so she's still with us. We really try like heck to accommodate her because of her anxiety.) There was absolutely no reason for her to act that way. None. And that's what we don't get.

Thanks for listening/reading.

I'm sorry that you're not finding any help. I'm still looking. I found this place. it's a sanctuary for senior dogs in Wapwallopen PA. I have no idea where that is.

http://www.mureillesplace.org/

Here's another one in southern PA

http://www.goodoldtails.org/

This is a non breed specific dog rescue in North Wales PA.

http://www.homeatlastdogrescue.com/

Here's another Beagle rescue in central PA

http://www.nittanybeaglerescue.org/home.cfm

I have no idea if any of these are even remotely close to you. They might be able to offer advice or suggestions if they are not.

jcat · Sep 28, 2016

How about watching some YouTube videos (or getting a book) on clicker training and teaching her a more acceptable way of greeting you at the door, for example sitting and giving you her paw, bringing you a particular toy, touching your palm with her nose, or butting your fist with her head? She needs to be distracted from her current screaming behavior and rewarded for a more acceptable one. Teaching her a trick and then practicing it when you enter the house should at least prevent her from going into a frenzy whenever you get home. Bringing a particular toy and holding it in her mouth till you take it should reduce the volume quite a bit.

Clicker training works extremely well with food-motivated pets, and they learn it surprisingly quickly. It might make life with Jackie a bit more bearable. It's something you only have to spend 5 - 10 minutes at a time on, though it's important to do it every day.

One other thing you can try is not responding at all to the screaming, i.e., don't tell her to stop it, because that's attention, too. Just standing there and waiting for her to calm down can work wonders. We've got a Shepherd mix at the shelter that was carrying on like crazy every morning, jumping on you, whining, barking, running in circles, etc., when it was time to take him out of his kennel. It didn't even take two weeks of just standing there waiting for him to stop to break that behavior.

Winchester · Sep 28, 2016

I called the vet about Prozac; this is Jackie's vet, and she is to call me back. I was very honest and very adamant about the entire situation, to the point where if we cannot find her another home or put her on Prozac, our final thought is to put her down; as much as we hate to do that, that option is not completely off the table. The doctor will call me back yet today. There's also a rescue group that just rescued a beagle from our area and the vet assistant has put in a phone call to them as well.

Tricia, ignoring her does not work. We've done that for weeks. Just bring in the groceries and start putting them away. She just screams that much worse. Rick got to the point where he would immediately take her outside because we thought she had to pee that badly. She wouldn't pee, though; she'd just run around the outside of the house screaming. The other night she was doing that; our neighbor has two male beagles and then came over to the side of their yard, sat down and watched her. Then they started barking and carrying on. But they have shock collars, so their barking doesn't last long. (And we've talked about a shock collar for Jackie, too, but well, they can be painful.)

I can work with her on clicker training and can check out You Tube. Rick will not; he's pretty much washed his hands. Which has me even more upset, but that's another story.

Thank you.

@Kat0121, the rescue group in the State College area is, I think, the one that the vet assistant contacted this morning. We'll see how it goes.

Kat0121 · Sep 28, 2016

Winchester said:
I called the vet about Prozac; this is Jackie's vet, and she is to call me back. I was very honest and very adamant about the entire situation, to the point where if we cannot find her another home or put her on Prozac, our final thought is to put her down; as much as we hate to do that, that option is not completely off the table. The doctor will call me back yet today. There's also a rescue group that just rescued a beagle from our area and the vet assistant has put in a phone call to them as well.

Tricia, ignoring her does not work. We've done that for weeks. Just bring in the groceries and start putting them away. She just screams that much worse. Rick got to the point where he would immediately take her outside because we thought she had to pee that badly. She wouldn't pee, though; she'd just run around the outside of the house screaming. The other night she was doing that; our neighbor has two male beagles and then came over to the side of their yard, sat down and watched her. Then they started barking and carrying on. But they have shock collars, so their barking doesn't last long. (And we've talked about a shock collar for Jackie, too, but well, they can be painful.)

I can work with her on clicker training and can check out You Tube. Rick will not; he's pretty much washed his hands. Which has me even more upset, but that's another story.

Thank you.

@Kat0121, the rescue group in the State College area is, I think, the one that the vet assistant contacted this morning. We'll see how it goes.

You have to do what is best for everyone.

I hope that a rescue can help you. If you're on Facebook, you might be able to locate Beagle rescues that way too

hbunny · Sep 28, 2016

I never thought about a shock collar, but you might want to consider one. I have actually had experience with them, and used properly, they do not hurt the dog at all. I have tested the level of them on myself before, it really doesn't hurt them, just gets their attention and provides a diversion. It's like it redirects their thoughts from whatever is causing the unwanted behavior. You could start off very low and adjust the level until it makes her stop. It feels like a bad static-electric shock. People use them incorrectly, often to discipline instead of for behavior modification and end up hurting the dog, but when they are turned down and used properly (just to get their attention diverted) they work very well. Hubby had search/rescue bloodhounds (they are beasts to handle!!), and I've trained hunting dogs with much success using them.

Another behavior modification collar is available that puts out a high-frequency noise that they hear, we don't. I don't know of anyone that has had much success with those though.

Willowy · Sep 28, 2016

Shock collars tend to really backfire on anxious dogs. Anxiety is not helped by getting zapped

. If a dog is a problem barker just because he likes to hear his own voice, yeah, they probably will work without too much fallout. But with an anxious dog it can really cause some damage, even at low levels.

I've heard that even some vets will prefer to put the dog down rather than use psychiatric drugs :/. I'm not sure why so many people have a problem with medicating for mental issues. Mental illnesses are as valid as physical illnesses and are just as often helped by proper medication. Just mentioning that in case the vet is against medication for some reason. . .I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I put a pet down for mental issues, without trying every medication first.

I'm told you can get generic fluoxetine at most pharmacies for a low price. Don't buy it from the vet, that almost always costs way more! Ask for a prescription to take to Walmart or Target or wherever. Hopefully it can be kept to a minimum cost. :vibes:

hbunny · Sep 28, 2016

Willowy said:
Shock collars tend to really backfire on anxious dogs. Anxiety is not helped by getting zapped

. If a dog is a problem barker just because he likes to hear his own voice, yeah, they probably will work without too much fallout. But with an anxious dog it can really cause some damage, even at low levels.

True--that is so true. They become just withdrawn and fearful. I do wonder though if another dog's company would help. My neighbor's dog never did that screaming again once it was with the other beagles. I swear it sounded like a screaming goat.

Winchester · Sep 28, 2016

hbunny said:
True--that is so true. They become just withdrawn and fearful. I do wonder though if another dog's company would help. My neighbor's dog never did that screaming again once it was with the other beagles. I swear it sounded like a screaming goat.

Well.....we're not gonna find out! We are not getting a pet for the pet!

Yeah, the screaming is bad. Really bad.

Kat0121 · Sep 28, 2016

Winchester said:
Well.....we're not gonna find out! We are not getting a pet for the pet!

Yeah, the screaming is bad. Really bad.

Would Jackie's vet be willing to put something up in the office reception area letting other clients know that Jackie is looking for a new home? Maybe contact other clients who have a beagle to see if they are looking for a companion for their dog? it's worth a shot and it's better than putting up an ad on Craigslist.

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