Slowly losing a litter...

So we have 2 quasi-adult females, both are 14 months old. They found an intact male and had their litters on 9/7 and 9/11. Each cat had 5 kittens. 

Loki had hers first. Her name prior to life with me was Bear, for she had big ole paws. Her 5 babies are doing great, they're huge, eyes open, wobbly walking, wrestling, purring. 

Voodoo's litter has been slowly passing away. We discovered they were severely anemic due to fleas, so I quartered a couple of capguard pills and we dosed everyone. We rushed out and got KMR and put the remaining two littles with Loki's litter, she's been feeding them for us and they're kept warm in the mass of babies. We're supplementing with the KMR. 

Her babies, 10 days old today, are 4.9 oz and 3.2 oz respectively. The bigger one is growing and starting to fight off his half siblings for a teat. But the little one has lost another quarter ounce despite the KMR and milk from Loki. Neither one has eyes open yet. 

I'm just mentally preparing myself to lose the little one. He's losing weight still, but is getting more vocal and more interested in moving around and not being so lethargic. Is it possible that we're just in some sort of interim where the increased activity is making him lose weight and it'll slow and reverse in a couple days? 

Just looking for commiseration I guess. Here's a pic. It's hard to tell them apart because they're all dark grey and black tabby, but the little ones are visible on top of all the bigger ones, and the other is below him between two of the bigger ones. 

R ryversong

Which brand KMR are you using? Powdered or pre-mixed?

How often are you supplementing the 2 runts from the other litter, and how much per feeding?

Does Voodoo still have milk?

Are the fleas gone now from moms and kittens?

Once I get answers I'll be able to assess better for you. [emoji]128522[/emoji]

Absolutely must increase kmr supplemental feedings right away, you don't have to lose another but will soon as it is literally going to starve to death.

It happens, it is unable to fight for a nipple and gets pushed away constantly, so while it appears to be nursing it is clearly unable to get in enough to gain appropriately. so if it were me I would be supplementing him as if he were an orphan with no momma.

Got to get him up in weight and stabilized ASAP.

R ryversong

How are the kittens doing today?

I agree that the tiniest kitten is starving - probably not getting enough milk from Loki just because it can't fight as well for a nipple.

Are you able to feed it more often? If you give me its weight, I can tell you how much to give.

So far, so good. Both of Voodoo's boys are still doing well. The tiny one, who I've dubbed Spike because of his mohawk is at 3.25 oz, which is a gain of 0, but also not a loss either. His eye is opening and he wobbled off the scale in just a few seconds. The other kittens and Loki have stopped pushing him out of the pile so he's right in the middle keeping warm. When we first combined the litters, Spike was always behind Loki's back or pushed off into a corner by himself. 

Big brother is at 5.45 oz with no sign of his eyes opening. He gained about a half ounce in 24 hours and is significantly larger than tiny now. 

Voodoo is drying up we think, she wasn't producing anything when we took the kittens off her in the first place, and she has no real interest in them. We laid them next to her and all she did was take Spike into the boys room and leave him under the bed alone and came right back out and went to eat, then laid down for a nap on the other end of the house. She ignored Big completely. 

The kmr is powdered, PetAg KMR. We've been feeding Spike about 3 mil from an infant medicine syringe(couldn't find a bottle for kittens anywhere) every 3-6 hours. He howls, wriggles and mews, and spits it right back out, then Loki cleans him up. I've been watching closely whenever Loki enters the nest and I make sure Voodoos two get their own teats and that the five giants who are starting to wrestle get to use the others. 

They are flea free, for now, I need to get some more capguard and dose everyone a couple more times to break the cycle fully. Especially since Voodoo keeps going outside and it's still flea season. Voodoo is very fine boned, she's got long hair, so her babies might just be smaller overall than Loki's. 

R ryversong

They need more food! A kitten should weigh about 8 ounces at 14 days old, and at 11 days old, both kittens are underweight. Both need supplementing every 4 hours to help them catch up.

Spike in particular needs 24 mLs of formula in each 24-hour period. Every 4 hours means he needs 6 mLs, which is DOUBLE what you are now giving.

Spitting it out is not acceptable. He's not gaining, so you have to make sure he swallows it all. Go drop by drop until he begins accepting it. Wrap him in a towel like a burrito so he cannot struggle as much. It cannot be his decision whether to eat. He must eat and he has to gain weight. If he doesn't, he will not make it.

Spike lost another .22 of an ounce overnight Big is up to 6.5 and is catching up to the other kits size wise. I got Spike to eat 3.5-4 mL of KMR, made a little thicker to help him keep it down, it seemed to work well, he only refused the 3rd syringe refill. As soon as I put him back in the litter he latched on to Loki for more. Big would NOT eat the KMR at all and I had to pry him out of the nest and off Loki to weigh him. Since Loki was starting to get up to rescue him, I just put him back with her and she settled down to nurse them all. 

R ryversong

Weight loss is never good. [emoji]128533[/emoji]

I think you need to feed Spike every 2 hours instead of 4. Give 2-3 mLs every 2 hours to try and get 24 mLs in him over 24 hours. He needs feeding through the night too.

It's critical that he gains weight!

Big sounds like he's managing on his own. Keep an eye on him though, and continue weighing him.

Could you get raw goats milk?  It may be worth the try to change the tendecy.   PetAg  KMR is otherwise excellent, and should be more than good enough...

With the little one, I want even to propose a tighter still schedule, down to every hour.  I suppose he doenst manage much at a time, so little but often...

When you describe he does develops physically and mentally, it sounds good, but as he IS losing the weight, its Red Alert...  So dont wait till he gets better, you must fight it out while there is still strenght in him...

Get home also glucose sugar, or at least honey or white caro syrup.   thick hoeny water put on lips and gum is good to sparkle in extra energy.

@Ryversong

This morning he's  up to 3.9. We've been feeding him every 2-3 hours while we're awake- I stay up until midnight, my boyfriend gets up for work at 3am, I found a bigger syringe that holds 10mL and we're keeping his tummy as full as we can, he's looking like a ball with legs. Very vocal, we're putting a few drops of leftover formula on his bum so Loki's taking care of the bathroom business after every feed. Big is only slightly smaller than Loki's actual kits so we're having to figure out who he is by weighing them. 

Terrific! Spike should begin catching up soon at the rate he's going! You guys are doing a super job of feeding him. [emoji]128522[/emoji]

Unfortunately, Spike passed away. So we're down to 6 kittens total. Big is only a little behind Loki's kits in size, he's got crazy hair and house elf ears, so we're thinking his name will be Dobby or Goblin. He's a few days behind his half siblings developmental wise, but that's not slowing him down, he wrestles and pounces. We're going to keep Big and a boy I've dubbed Rory. Gomez and Binx will be going to a great home together, and we just need to find a home, hopefully together, for River and Puddin', the two girls. All except Big are dark grey with black tabby in coloration, with long spiky white/light grey hair on their legs. Loki is shrinking, they're draining her dry. We've got them in the laundry room with a small litter box for the kits, a bigger litter box for Loki, 4 different dishes(2 dry kitten food, 1 KMR, 1 wet food) and a large water station. We're making arrangements to get the whole batch neutered and spayed when they're a bit older. Voodoo is going in first because she's no longer nursing or caring for kits. 

Voodoo abhors all the kittens, Big included. She growls and hisses at them and refuses to go into the laundry room to eat or use the litter box. So Loki growls back.