Change in cat behavior - due to age?

gilmargl

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Lilly is at least 13 years old - she's been with me for 12 years and was already neutered when I collected her from the shelter as an indoor cat. Even then she was a very thirsty cat and 5 years later was diagnosed with kidney disease. She seemed perfectly happy indoors and when she did occasionally get out into the back yard she just sniffed around before coming back indoors. We have had changes in our cat population which varied from 2 to 4. The last change was 36 months ago when I decided that the cat I was fostering (in a separate part of the house) could not be kept in solitary confinement any longer and she was slowly introduced to my 3 other females. No real problems at the time - Lilly is not friendly towards other cats but tends to ignore them.

Recently Lilly has been breaking out - literally through the insect screens. At first she reappeared back on the window ledge quite quickly so I wasn't too concerned. I took her to the vet to get her chipped - a necessity here for cats which go outside. The vet was rather surprised that Lilly in her old age should suddenly decide to go off on her own. But I am now beginning to get worried. At the weekend she stayed out for 25 hours and I spent a morning searching for her and an afternoon writing posters "Has anyone seen my cat?". And there she was sitting on the garden wall. We'd imagined her dead or dying in a cornfield - too weak to get home. She didn't seem too keen but she did come indoors for something to eat before breaking out again. Since then she's only been indoors for food. If she can't get out she screams. At the moment she is on the window ledge complaining. I am hoping to keep her indoors tonight - a routine of daylight hours spent outside and nights at home would suit me fine but Lilly seems to think otherwise.

When I come across her outside she seems to know me but can't be bothered to have much to do with me. She used to sit on laps for hours complaining bitterly when she was gently lifted onto a chair. Now, she lets me stroke her for a few minutes when she comes indoors but then she's off back onto the window ledge and complaining.

I don't think it is a reaction to stress None of my other cats bother her - they are used to her bad temper and keep their distance. And now my better half has let her out - she was yowling and scratching at the back of our old TV. So much for a night indoors!

Since spending so much time outdoors, she suffers from grass mites.When she comes inside she is forever scratching herself and licking her paws. But outside, they don't seem to bother her. This is a problem but not THE PROBLEM. As soon as it gets colder, the mites will disappear.

Is she becoming senile? The vet advised me to let her be - maybe her life will be shortened but at least she seems to be doing what she wants to do.
 

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@Gilmargl your post seems to have been missed.. I imagine it's a tricky problem and members just may not know the answer.  I'm at a bit of a loss... it does seem strange to completely change like that.  The introduction three years ago seems way too long ago to be the cause.

My cats are indoor only and I'd be really concerned about cats going out overnight.  But I do see your dilemma.  I think the only option is to put her somewhere overnight where she can't destroy anything, or crate her, and I think you would like those options as much as she would.

Have you tried things like Feliway, to see if it settles her? 
 

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Has the vet done a thorough exam of her, including bloodwork, to rule out any medical concerns? Sometimes cats with diabetes can behave erratically. I would think that confining her some way during the night would be the safest option for her, but I understand that the crying is difficult to listen to. Wish I could give some advice, but I've never encountered a situation like yours.
 
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gilmargl

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My cats are indoor only and I'd be really concerned about cats going out overnight.  But I do see your dilemma.  I think the only option is to put her somewhere overnight where she can't destroy anything, or crate her, and I think you would like those options as much as she would.

Have you tried things like Feliway, to see if it settles her? 
Thank you so much for your replies. I don't like cats staying out at night either. It was never a problem with my own cats but the strays who adopted us liked to roam and we would see them in the neighboring fields. Unfortunately they ended their short lives on the road in front of the house or were attacked by dogs. Since then I have only indoor cats and life with cats has become much less traumatic.

Lilly was one of many cats and kittens left behind when a local village was evacuated to make way for opencast mining. She was neutered and an ear was clipped possibly because there were no projects for rehousing these poor creatures and it was not expected that homes would be found for them. Lilly was lucky and was adopted but it didn't last long before she was returned to a local animal charity. I was told she was an indoor cat so there was no question about her being let out of the house. I wonder if her behavior now is caused by dementia and she is back in the days of her youth when she had no home to go to. She definitely appears rather confused - not knowing whether or not to enter the house. I have been feeding her on the window ledge to entice her indoors but I refuse to leave food outside.

I would be interested to know where she goes when she leaves the house. Her coat is very clean - I've checked for fleas etc. We have never seen her in the fields next to the house - the grain has been harvested so she would easily be seen. I have never seen her even at the front of the house. She seems to keep to my overgrown back garden. In comparison my neighbors plot is a park where she would easily be spotted.

I think I have at least 4 Feliway diffusers. I have quite a lot of space so I needed a few. I've not had any success with them and I don't really think that they could help now. This morning we enticed her indoors and she stayed for 8 hours, eating, sleeping and sitting on laps, before getting nervous again and wanting to go out. She's now worn herself out so with any luck she'll stay in tonight.
 
Has the vet done a thorough exam of her, including bloodwork, to rule out any medical concerns? Sometimes cats with diabetes can behave erratically. I would think that confining her some way during the night would be the safest option for her, but I understand that the crying is difficult to listen to. Wish I could give some advice, but I've never encountered a situation like yours.
Lilly has kidney issues. The last blood test was taken 2 years ago. The first attempt had been a disaster - it was like trying to get blood out of a stone in spite of her being on a drip. Blood was eventually taken some time later after dental surgery while she was still sedated. The vet said that kidney and thyroid problems often occur at the same time. She is hyperactive compared with the sleepy cat we've known for so long. A blood test would of course be needed to confirm this one way or the other. But, the vet knows my cat and her history and if she needs sedation it would not do her kidneys any good.

Incidentally, there is another vet I sometimes use (mainly for the cats I foster) and I know that he would not hesitate not only to do the blood test (under sedation when it proves difficult) but remove the rest of her teeth as well. It's difficult to know what is a meaningful therapy and what is a sure way of making money.
 

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I had a cat with hyperthyroidism that I had to give methimazole to with a pill gun twice a day for the last four years of his life. Whenever his thyroid was out of whack, he would behave out of sorts, sometimes agitated or confused. So it could be that your cat may need to be on medication if the thyroid is an issue, I would advise you get that checked. If you only get the test for the thyroid, the T4 test, they only need a tiny bit of blood and could probably get it out of her without sedation. This cat also did develop kidney disease a few years later, and I know that medication can be hard on the kidneys, but cats do suffer if they have a thyroid issue that is not treated.
 
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gilmargl

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I had a cat with hyperthyroidism that I had to give methimazole to with a pill gun twice a day for the last four years of his life. Whenever his thyroid was out of whack, he would behave out of sorts, sometimes agitated or confused. So it could be that your cat may need to be on medication if the thyroid is an issue, I would advise you get that checked. If you only get the test for the thyroid, the T4 test, they only need a tiny bit of blood and could probably get it out of her without sedation. This cat also did develop kidney disease a few years later, and I know that medication can be hard on the kidneys, but cats do suffer if they have a thyroid issue that is not treated.
Thank you for the information - I had suspected thyroid problems. The vet was reluctant to do a blood test - checking her weight would have given some indication of the problem but Lilly has been little more than skin and bones for so long it would be difficult to detect further weight loss. The vet couldn't feel anything to confirm our suspicions. One of his patients - a cat in a very bad condition - had reacted positively to a change of diet - to a dry food from Canada which can be ordered on-line. I bought some but Lilly seems to prefer wet food at the moment. Her kidney diet has been abandoned and I am happy when she eats anything at all.

I have to contact the vet again on Monday about another cat and another problem. I've been fostering a mother cat and her 3 babies and we've had quite a few setbacks. The kittens are now 8 weeks old and mama was neutered last week. She was a poor undernourished cat with too little milk for her 3 kittens. I probably made a mistake giving her best quality food which she just wasn't used to. The kittens had taken a lot of her strength and then the vet DROPPED her after the OP! I didn't ask for more details but she was given more sedation and I was told she would probably have a bad headache when she came round. Four days later she's on antibiotics, has had to wear a collar since yesterday and there's a real danger of galactosis. I am just hoping that things will be better by Monday. When I speak to the vet I will ask about a blood test for Lilly. She's been mainly indoors since yesterday evening spending most of her time asleep in a cupboard - an unusual place for her.

I feel so bad about my poor cats that I bought some chicken fillets this morning. I cooked enough for all of them but only Lilly and my foster family were interested. Tomorrow I'll cook fish as a special treat for the other three.
 

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If your vet was reluctant to do a blood test on your cat when he suspected the cat of having hyperthyroidism, then you should seriously  consider finding another vet. I've taken cats of all sorts to the vet for blood tests, and a competent team of vet techs have no problems holding down an agitated cat while getting blood, even if a muzzle is required. Only truly feral cats require sedation. Semi-ferals and agitated domestic cats do not. If your cat has been losing weight and is agitated and confused, PLEASE take her to a vet who is willing to do his or her job and get the tiny amount of blood required for the T4 test. Cats with hyperthyroidism suffer, and need medication. Diet alone at this point won't suffice. If your cat has hyperthyroidism, she will need Methimazole (or Felimazole, the newer version). There are general equivalents that run about  16 dollars a month for a twice a day dosing. If you're not able to treat your cat for this disease, then she will continue to suffer. PLEASE consult another vet.  I'm speaking as someone who had and loved and cared for a cat with thyroid disease for four years.
 

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our cat was going wild and crazy - turned out it was his thyroid and we give him transdermal methimazole, which is much easier on him and us than using a pill or liquid, as we just rub it on the inside of his ear. 

is Lilly on subcutaneous fluid for her kidneys?

btw, it sounds like you need to find a more capable vet.  we had a very angry feral and several vets managed to get blood out of him over the years.
 
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gilmargl

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Thank you basschick and MsAimee,

Sorry for not replying earlier. I have been very busy but haven't neglected any of my cats and certainly not Lilly!

Today she had her blood taken: it has to be sent away and will be examined for geriatric conditions - including the thyroid. I will get the results per e-mail tomorrow. I hope they will find something treatable.

She's spending most of the day under a pile of scarves in one of my closets. She comes out to eat and late afternoon she goes outside. I am always relieved when I can get her to come indoors before I go to bed.
 our cat was going wild and crazy - turned out it was his thyroid and we give him transdermal methimazole, which is much easier on him and us than using a pill or liquid, as we just rub it on the inside of his ear. 
Thanks for the information, I will certainly ask about transdermal methimazole if she has thyroid problems. May not be available here though. I can usually get Lilly to take pills at least for a limited period. But, it may be a different matter when she has to take pills twice a day for the rest of her life.
 is Lilly on subcutaneous fluid for her kidneys?
not on a regular basis. When she was very ill we were treating her at home, to save the hassle of gong to the vet's every day. But her condition improved. If we suspect she is dehydrated I take her to the vet - it doesn't happen very often and the vets will always fit her in.
 If your vet was reluctant to do a blood test on your cat when he suspected the cat of having hyperthyroidism, then you should seriously  consider finding another vet.
It was actually me who suspected hyperthyroidism and not the vet. Lilly was very ill and dehydrated when she last had blood taken and, for some reason, the attempt was abandoned. The vet usually has no problems taking blood from cats even with me as his only assistant, passing him the wrong test tubes
. Today, everything was over in 5 minutes. The technician was present so I only had to stroke Lilly's head.

I'll let you know the results.
 
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gilmargl

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our cat was going wild and crazy - turned out it was his thyroid and we give him transdermal methimazole, which is much easier on him and us than using a pill or liquid, as we just rub it on the inside of his ear. 

is Lilly on subcutaneous fluid for her kidneys?

btw, it sounds like you need to find a more capable vet.  we had a very angry feral and several vets managed to get blood out of him over the years.
The "craziness" in Lilly's case is entirely due to her chronic renal problems. The vet had her blood tested for geriatric conditions and the outcome was kidney related problems which we knew already. She was first diagnosed with this condition 4 years ago.
 
If your vet was reluctant to do a blood test on your cat when he suspected the cat of having hyperthyroidism, then you should seriously  consider finding another vet. I've taken cats of all sorts to the vet for blood tests, and a competent team of vet techs have no problems holding down an agitated cat while getting blood, even if a muzzle is required. Only truly feral cats require sedation. Semi-ferals and agitated domestic cats do not. If your cat has been losing weight and is agitated and confused, PLEASE take her to a vet who is willing to do his or her job and get the tiny amount of blood required for the T4 test. Cats with hyperthyroidism suffer, and need medication. Diet alone at this point won't suffice. If your cat has hyperthyroidism, she will need Methimazole (or Felimazole, the newer version). There are general equivalents that run about  16 dollars a month for a twice a day dosing. If you're not able to treat your cat for this disease, then she will continue to suffer. PLEASE consult another vet.  I'm speaking as someone who had and loved and cared for a cat with thyroid disease for four years.
Well, he did the test and there were no indications of diabetes, thyroid or pancreas problems:  "just" kidney disease. The results were slightly worse than those from the last tests. We've been on and off renal diets and homeopathic remedies for the past 4 years. She will not touch wet renal food and she is taking a long time to eat the last packet of dry food I bought. She prefers to feed from my other cats' dishes. I am very sad that things have got worse so suddenly and that there is really so little one can do to help her. At least she has calmed down a bit: going out in the late afternoon but coming in again once it gets dark. Thank you for your help and tips. I'm now re-reading all the forums on chronic renal failure - I'd became rather complacent when Lilly's condition remained stable for so long. 
 

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Thank you basschick and MsAimee,

Sorry for not replying earlier. I have been very busy but haven't neglected any of my cats and certainly not Lilly!

Today she had her blood taken: it has to be sent away and will be examined for geriatric conditions - including the thyroid. I will get the results per e-mail tomorrow. I hope they will find something treatable.

She's spending most of the day under a pile of scarves in one of my closets. She comes out to eat and late afternoon she goes outside. I am always relieved when I can get her to come indoors before I go to bed.

Thanks for the information, I will certainly ask about transdermal methimazole if she has thyroid problems. May not be available here though. I can usually get Lilly to take pills at least for a limited period. But, it may be a different matter when she has to take pills twice a day for the rest of her life.

not on a regular basis. When she was very ill we were treating her at home, to save the hassle of gong to the vet's every day. But her condition improved. If we suspect she is dehydrated I take her to the vet - it doesn't happen very often and the vets will always fit her in.

It was actually me who suspected hyperthyroidism and not the vet. Lilly was very ill and dehydrated when she last had blood taken and, for some reason, the attempt was abandoned. The vet usually has no problems taking blood from cats even with me as his only assistant, passing him the wrong test tubes
. Today, everything was over in 5 minutes. The technician was present so I only had to stroke Lilly's head.

I'll let you know the results.
the transdermal meds made our lives MUCH easier.  HK is so unhappy when given pills that all he does is sit with his head down and hide.  we use the transdermal methimazole, and his other meds are compounded (they will do chicken, beef or tuna liquid) and i mix them into a large pool of fancy feast gravy.  like most kidney patients, HK is a very picky eater, but whenever he stops thinking one flavor is a treat, we simply go to the next.  it's been working for over 2 years.

subcutaneous fluids are done at home - we were scared at first, but they've extended HK's life and especially his quality of life and without adding kidney meds so far.  we do 2 days on, 1 day off, warming the liquid to 90 degrees faranheit (yeah, i know, i misspelled it) first.  it's made HK's life so much better - although he isn't in love with getting a needle in the neck fold.  but his values are all better and he's more energetic and eats better.
 

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I am so sorry to hear that her kidney disease is progressing. I had a cat with kidney disease, and I was able to give him much more time by giving him Sub-Q fluids a few times a week. I ordered the bags of fluid online for a lot less than you would get at a vet office. It is not at all difficult to give the fluids, it takes about four or five minutes to do. If you are interested I can p.m. you the information where I purchased the Sub-Q fluids and how to do it. At least you know what is going on. Did the vet say what stage of disease she was in? If not, you can request a copy of her labs and do the research on the internet. Your cat could still have at least a few more good years of life.
 
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gilmargl

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I am so sorry to hear that her kidney disease is progressing. I had a cat with kidney disease, and I was able to give him much more time by giving him Sub-Q fluids a few times a week. I ordered the bags of fluid online for a lot less than you would get at a vet office. It is not at all difficult to give the fluids, it takes about four or five minutes to do. If you are interested I can p.m. you the information where I purchased the Sub-Q fluids and how to do it. At least you know what is going on. Did the vet say what stage of disease she was in? If not, you can request a copy of her labs and do the research on the internet. Your cat could still have at least a few more good years of life.
Sorry for the late answer. I must have been too involved with the problems of too many sick cats. So, just to close this case: we gave Liilly fluids whenever we thought she needed them. She was a good patient until it was clear that she wanted nothing more to do with us. She was eating very little. She would sometimes hide for 24 hours in the cellar but a day later would come upstairs and sit on our laps. Though the results from the last blood test were not so bad that the vet expected her to die very soon, her general condition worsened and she was going to be treated palliatively. I could not get painkillers for her as the vet said they affect the kidneys, but in her case I would have thought that that wasn't the most important issue. Her death was not expected to come so soon or else I would have made an appointment for euthanization. We were at the vet's with her on Thursday, and she died in great pain the following Sunday night when no vet was available. It was November 2018 (two years after my posting here). The worst night of my life. RIP little Lilly! :rbheart: :heartshape:

The reason for looking up this post again: I have an indoor foster cat who no-one wanted so she stayed. She has just been diagnosed with the early stages of CKD. Guess what she's doing? Scratching at the windows trying to get outside!
:help: I had new windows installed only last year and now she's decided to attack the seals and scream to be allowed out! :nono:
 
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