Primal vs Stella and Chewy's

kirathecat

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Unfortunately, it's not a total switch. I was just hoping to introduce raw into diet along with wet and try to eliminate kibble.
Lots of people here feed partial raw, and it's OK 
 Incorporating  any raw  in their diet is very beneficial. You are doing great!
He doesn't get free fed kibble, he's supposed to get a small handful between meals as a snack. But somehow the bowl ends up full! I always chide my parents and/or secretly put the kibble back but they are dead set in their ways. My mom is coming along slowly to the raw side though. 
It's good that he is not free fed 
 I'm sure with time you'll succeed in eliminating all the kibble and getting your family on the 'raw side' :)
 I will probably keep up with giving him the rehydrated NV Raw Market along with wet food. I will continue to remove any kibble set out for him. And I've decided that once this Orijen is gone, I'm not going to get any dry food and see if my parents notice ;)
Sounds like a good plan! Oh, I bet they'll notice, lol :) I hope they won't go and buy more.

Best of luck to you and your kitty! 
 
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manx

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Thank you!

I actually just had an idea...instead of kibble, why not use something like the NV Rawboost mixers? My cat gets a crunchy food, my parents are satisfied, but its still raw. Its not completely balanced but thats ok as he wouldnt be getting a lot anyway and would still eat majority wet.

My only concer would be the low moisture. Its even lower than dry kibble. Would that be safe to feed? I could compensate by adding water to the wet food or lightly misting the Rawboost with water
 
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manx

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I bought the trial sample of the rabbit Rawboost Mixer, and my cat loves it! 

I noticed on the rabbit one, there's no mention of bone, so I am assuming it is lower in phosphorus and magnesium?
 
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manx

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Thank you!

I actually just had an idea...instead of kibble, why not use something like the NV Rawboost mixers? My cat gets a crunchy food, my parents are satisfied, but its still raw. Its not completely balanced but thats ok as he wouldnt be getting a lot anyway and would still eat majority wet.

My only concer would be the low moisture. Its even lower than dry kibble. Would that be safe to feed? I could compensate by adding water to the wet food or lightly misting the Rawboost with water
 

missmimz

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Thank you!

I actually just had an idea...instead of kibble, why not use something like the NV Rawboost mixers? My cat gets a crunchy food, my parents are satisfied, but its still raw. Its not completely balanced but thats ok as he wouldnt be getting a lot anyway and would still eat majority wet.

My only concer would be the low moisture. Its even lower than dry kibble. Would that be safe to feed? I could compensate by adding water to the wet food or lightly misting the Rawboost with water
The raw boost mixers may contain bone. The ingredients isn't clear, but you could email the company to ask. It's intended as supplemental feeding only so it shouldn't replace kibble. I wouldn't feed it dry unless you can find out the ash/phos ratio. Those will be quite high if it contains bone. 
 
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manx

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The raw boost mixers may contain bone. The ingredients isn't clear, but you could email the company to ask. It's intended as supplemental feeding only so it shouldn't replace kibble. I wouldn't feed it dry unless you can find out the ash/phos ratio. Those will be quite high if it contains bone. 
I know the chicken one says ground bone but the rabbit does not. Regardless, I will email the company and get back to you when they respond.

Thank you!
 

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I know the chicken one says ground bone but the rabbit does not. Regardless, I will email the company and get back to you when they respond.

Thank you!
Rabbit is very boney, so I assume it probably does contain bone, but Instinct is very responsive so you should get a reply. Have you tried something like Ziwipeak air dried as a kibble alternative? I use it as a night snack for my younger cats. 
 
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manx

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Rabbit is very boney, so I assume it probably does contain bone, but Instinct is very responsive so you should get a reply. Have you tried something like Ziwipeak air dried as a kibble alternative? I use it as a night snack for my younger cats. 
Ive tried the ZiwiPeak treats,which I believe are the same texture, and he wouldn't touch them. Guess he only likes crunchy? Although it waa only that one flavor and I could always try a different one
 
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manx

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The treats we tried were the Lamb, but I know they make a Venison and Fish dry food. The fish is further down the list, and my cat does like fish even though I don't feed it often. If he does end up liking that flavor, would it be safe to feed?
 

missmimz

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The treats we tried were the Lamb, but I know they make a Venison and Fish dry food. The fish is further down the list, and my cat does like fish even though I don't feed it often. If he does end up liking that flavor, would it be safe to feed?
I actually started with ZP using the venison and fish flavor, I don't think the fish is too much as long as it's not their primary meal. I mixed it with their kibble at the time to get them used to it. Then i switched to just plain venison for one cat and the rest eat lamb venison and beef in rotation for a snack. 
 
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manx

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I just noticed that all the ZP has 8% ash, which seems kinda high. Is this safe?
 

missmimz

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I just noticed that all the ZP has 8% ash, which seems kinda high. Is this safe?
Yeah it is a bit high in phos/ash because of the bone, but not too much more than kibble. I just don't feed it exclusively. It's a treat at night only. 
 
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manx

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@missmimz I got an answer from NV on the Mixers.

Since the Raw Boost Mixers are considered treats or additions to the current diet, we are not required to do a full analysis on the nutrients, and do not have this information available.
So the ash content is forever unknown, it seems....I will continue to feed this as an occasional treat and avoid feeding them a lot as was the original plan.


My local pet food store was however kind enough to order the ZiwiPeak Venison flavor for me. They still carry the foods, but no longer in the store, and have stopped carrying the treats. Hopefully my cat won't be fussy and will eat this!

I'm still a little worried about the high ash content, but it's not much more than Orijen's, and I mean, cats eat bones in the wild. I'm sure if I keep up with majority wet, he will be fine :)
 

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I'm still a little worried about the high ash content, but it's not much more than Orijen's, and I mean, cats eat bones in the wild. I'm sure if I keep up with majority wet, he will be fine
Manx, just an fyi re: bone / ash: I noticed that Dr. Pierson (catinfo) updated her site, June 2016.  This is what she has to say about commercial raw products (which I feed quite a bit of actually, but I've changed the brands I've been using and hoping to get to homemade soon):

Raw Meat and Bones - "Balanced" Diets

6/23/16 - general comments:

Notice that I put the word "balanced" in quotation marks.  The dialog below will address this issue as it relates to the bone content of with-bones diets because many of these commercial products are not properly balanced with respect to the amount of bone included.

As noted above, I am not any more privy to information about commercial pet foods than the reader is.  I am not a 'fly on the wall' in these companies' manufacturing plants.  I have no idea how clean or contaminated their process is and I have no idea how much bone material is included in these diets.  The first part (contamination) does not worry me as much as the second issue (bone content) which I am addressing here.

Important point:  The more bone material that is contained in the product, the higher the profit margin is for the company.

In a nutshell, when feeding some (which ones??) of the commercial with-bones diets to our cats, we are forcing them to consume far more bone material than they would be eating in the wild. 

...

The more bone material contained in the diet, the more minerals are filtered through the kidney and end up in the bladder.  Minerals (calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, etc.,) are building blocks of crystals/stones which can obstruct the ureter or the urethra - especially in male cats since their urethra is longer and narrower than a female's urethra.

I am EXTREMELY passionate about, and sensitive to, the tremendous amount of suffering that cats with urethral obstructions have to endure.  Many "blocked" cats end up with a ruptured bladder resulting death.  The process is slow and painful.

But if the patient is lucky enough to be taken to a veterinarian before it loses its life?  Well, the client is faced with a huge vet bill and the patient must endure being catheterized (often more than once) and several days in the hospital in a very unhappy state.

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods#Raw_Meat_and_Bones_-_Balanced_Diets

And btw, that is a real Micky Mouse answer NV gave you re the mixers.
 
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manx

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Manx, just an fyi re: bone / ash: I noticed that Dr. Pierson (catinfo) updated her site, June 2016.  This is what she has to say about commercial raw products (which I feed quite a bit of actually, but I've changed the brands I've been using and hoping to get to homemade soon):


Raw Meat and Bones - "Balanced" Diets



6/23/16 - general comments:





Notice that I put the word "balanced" in quotation marks.  The dialog below will address this issue as it relates to the bone content of with-bones diets because many of these commercial products are not properly balanced with respect to the amount of bone included.



As noted above, I am not any more privy to information about commercial pet foods than the reader is.  I am not a 'fly on the wall' in these companies' manufacturing plants.  I have no idea how clean or contaminated their process is and I have no idea how much bone material is included in these diets.  The first part (contamination) does not worry me as much as the second issue (bone content) which I am addressing here.



Important point:  The more bone material that is contained in the product, the higher the profit margin is for the company.



In a nutshell, when feeding some (which ones??) of the commercial with-bones diets to our cats, we are forcing them to consume far more bone material than they would be eating in the wild. 



...





The more bone material contained in the diet, the more minerals are filtered through the kidney and end up in the bladder.  Minerals (calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, etc.,) are building blocks of crystals/stones which can obstruct the ureter or the urethra - especially in male cats since their urethra is longer and narrower than a female's urethra.



I am EXTREMELY passionate about, and sensitive to, the tremendous amount of suffering that cats with urethral obstructions have to endure.  Many "blocked" cats end up with a ruptured bladder resulting death.  The process is slow and painful.



But if the patient is lucky enough to be taken to a veterinarian before it loses its life?  Well, the client is faced with a huge vet bill and the patient must endure being catheterized (often more than once) and several days in the hospital in a very unhappy state.





http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods#Raw_Meat_and_Bones_-_Balanced_Diets





And btw, that is a real Micky Mouse answer NV gave you re the mixers.

Oh. Well that's just made me super apprehensive about anything with bone :c
 

missmimz

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Oh. Well that's just made me super apprehensive about anything with bone :c
I wouldn't be. Bone isn't bad in proper amounts. From what I can tell she's probably referring to commerial raw companies that refuse to release info on their products, like Stella and Chewy, or even Instinct's raw. Primal, for example, has their phos, ash, bone content right on the package (and their website) Instinct easily released me info on their Raw market. I do think it's lame they don't "have" to calculate info on their boosters, but I don't use those anyway. I think the bigger issue is people that feed commercial raw full time and don't rotate proteins or brands. It's just another reason to feed a large variety in order to avoid feeding too much bone.

I'm using Raw Market, Primal, and ZP air dried for all 10 of my cats in addition to some canned and some homemade raw and rad cat. Things higher in bone or phos should just be rotated to avoid too much. 
 

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Oh. Well that's just made me super apprehensive about anything with bone :c
No, I didn't mean for it to make you apprehensive, just to be aware that some commercial raw products,fed as meals - specifically if someone is doing 100% commercial raw, some might be higher in bone content than what cats would naturally consume from wild prey.

Missmimz is right on in her response, rotation is key. Call companies if you can. I feel comfortable with Primal, Fresh is Best as well as Raw Market. These are only about 50-75% of my cat(s) diet. Others that I have used and that have caused constipation, even at 50%-75%: Instinct frozen raw, Vital Essentials and Bravo.

If those foods caused constipation due to the amount of bone then it would make me wonder also about the risk of a urinary blockage.

That being said, soon I'll be ordering ground mouse meat from HT, bones and all. I have no reservations about the bone content, it has the perfect calcium / phos ratio, 1.1:1.
 
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manx

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I wouldn't be. Bone isn't bad in proper amounts. From what I can tell she's probably referring to commerial raw companies that refuse to release info on their products, like Stella and Chewy, or even Instinct's raw. Primal, for example, has their phos, ash, bone content right on the package (and their website) Instinct easily released me info on their Raw market. I do think it's lame they don't "have" to calculate info on their boosters, but I don't use those anyway. I think the bigger issue is people that feed commercial raw full time and don't rotate proteins or brands. It's just another reason to feed a large variety in order to avoid feeding too much bone.

I'm using Raw Market, Primal, and ZP air dried for all 10 of my cats in addition to some canned and some homemade raw and rad cat. Things higher in bone or phos should just be rotated to avoid too much. 
No, I didn't mean for it to make you apprehensive, just to be aware that some commercial raw products,fed as meals - specifically if someone is doing 100% commercial raw, some might be higher in bone content than what cats would naturally consume from wild prey.

Missmimz is right on in her response, rotation is key. Call companies if you can. I feel comfortable with Primal, Fresh is Best as well as Raw Market. These are only about 50-75% of my cat(s) diet. Others that I have used and that have caused constipation, even at 50%-75%: Instinct frozen raw, Vital Essentials and Bravo.

If those foods caused constipation due to the amount of bone then it would make me wonder also about the risk of a urinary blockage.

That being said, soon I'll be ordering ground mouse meat from HT, bones and all. I have no reservations about the bone content, it has the perfect calcium / phos ratio, 1.1:1.
I picked up the ZiwiPeak Venison today.

Cat gave it a sniff and decided it wasn't even worth a test lick ;w; 

sigh

Guess I'll need to return it, then
 

missmimz

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I picked up the ZiwiPeak Venison today.

Cat gave it a sniff and decided it wasn't even worth a test lick ;w; 

sigh

Guess I'll need to return it, then
Bummer. Some cats are a bit finicky about the texture. When i introduced it to my older cats I mixed it with their kibble at the time. 
 

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I picked up the ZiwiPeak Venison today.

Cat gave it a sniff and decided it wasn't even worth a test lick ;w; 

sigh

Guess I'll need to return it, then
Try offering it again at a later time. Sometimes cats turn up their noses at a new food but may sample it at a later time. Maybe you can leave a few pieces out or in a treat ball for a couple of days to see if curiosity gets to your cat and he decides to check it out further.
 
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