Hissing In The Circle Of Certain Death

Residual feral response. That's the term i was looking for!

Something just happened and i'm still shaky. I usually feed Minou cans down in the yard, near\in the SPCA trap (I'm getting him fixed next week, fingers crossed), but since i know he doesn't eat enough at the neighbors cause of other males (plus, she feeds them very cheap food, which i totally understand, but it's not very nourishing) i coaxed him up my balcony on the second floor so he can understand there will always be kibble there for him, where he can eat in peace. This is also where i plan on putting up his shelter for the winter so i dont have to go up and down the stairs 3x a day for food and pettings. He totally understood and ate the food i left out overnight, and he was there this morning when i got up. I went down in the yard to give him his canned food and lysine (he ate half way in the trap, which is progress), then i petted him, he went after a bird so i came back inside. On a side note, i have seen him go after squirrels and birds, and he is very impressive in his passion. That, plus the fact he has massive paws with 10 large sharp long daggers.
Anywho, i smoke on my balcony, with my own cat that i put on a leash so she wont do something stupid like fall down when she chases bugs.
Minou was there again. And so was my cat. I didnt see him at first cause he was coming up the stairs. When he saw my Pixie, he stopped and sat calmly. Mine hissed, growled and put herself in hunting position, ready to pounce. She started moving towards him. He looked at her semi-intensly, but did not move. I flippin took her and put her inside quickly as she was having an angry fit. My princess! I'm always so scared Minou will gut her, with his feral experience. I mean,, he's like a tiny thin Rambo. But he stayed calm and mine, my sweet little girl, became a demon. What if she had gotten to him? She would have no eyeballs left. Or no more blood in her from the large gash on her throat.
Cats are scary. I'm more used to dogs, and would have no problem breaking up a fight between two dogs. But two cats? All bets are off and there will be blood.
Damnit, what have i got myself into?
Pixie is his daughter\niece that i rescued from certain death at 5 weeks old last summer. She was VERY sick for weeks, and just plain sickly for a few months after that. I want to protect her, but i never thought she would get so bold with Minou.
I put the baby barrier up so mine can't get outside when i open the door. But given her motivation, i'm not sure she wont just jump over it.
How do feral react when attacked? They kill, no?

Hahaha! @Pixies Ma

Yes, "residual feral response"!  Love it!

 Is Minou "Mr. Feral"?

It's interesting what you wrote about Minou not reacting much to Pixie, while Pixie was ready to claw his eyes out.  My indoor cats also respond much more dramatically to the outdoor cats.  The outdoor cats don't seem to care--they just tend to look in the window curiously and are unfazed by the aggressive postures of my indoor kitties.  And Nero, the battle-scarred ex-tom I brought inside has never hissed even once at them the whole time--only at me!  XD  Maybe it's because the ferals are used to meeting other cats and they only mainly get into it if they're both unfixed males?  Or maybe the indoor cats have a stronger sense of "this is MY territory" than the cat that wanders up on the porch?  Or maybe a combination of both?  Not sure...just some ideas...but it's interesting that your experience is similar.

My *guess* would be that if Minou had an easy route of escape (i.e. run down the steps), then that's what he would probably do.  If he were caught in a corner then he would defend himself.  However, there's no way to say for sure.  Overall, it's not in a cat's best interest to fight, and mostly, from what I've heard about the outdoor cats, it's unfixed toms that fight to try to establish/maintain territory.  But even when they do, even though all cats, domestic and feral, are "natural-born killers", they don't tend to fight to the death.  Nonetheless, cat fights definitely sound like the Mouth of Hell itself is screaming, for sure.  And I wouldn't stick my hand in-between.  But I have broken up cat fights by presenting a major distraction like shouting, clapping and rushing at them.

As I'm sure you would do, I'd just keep them separated nonetheless to avoid the vet bills.  And don't let them eat/drink from the same food/water that might be out on the porch.  Either one could have something the other one doesn't, and there's no point in testing unless you plan on introducing them.  FIV is ok, but Feline Leukemia (FeLV) is not.

If you're leaving the door open, the baby barrier might not keep her in.  If that's the case, can you add a screen door?  And if you do, I would cover the bottom part with something.

I'm glad you're getting him fixed next week!  You rock!  Were you able to find one of the low-cost places that fixes ferals?

He will need to be contained at least for 24 hours to give him enough chance to come out from the anaesthetic and heal a little (ideally it would be 10 days, but nothing with ferals is ideal).  You mentioned that you're used to dogs--do you happen to have a large dog cage/crate available?  If not, worst case, you can keep him in the trap or a cat carrier for 24 hours.  Cats under anaesthetic can't regulate their body temp well, so you can't leave them in an area that might get too hot or cold, and I wouldn't put him where he and Pixie can come in contact.

If you have any questions about any of it, feel free to ask.  We're all here to help!  

Oh ya, Minou is Mr. Feral indeed.

Your theories make sense.

The two are absolutely kept separated, and do not have access to either's dishes.

I'm getting Minou fixed at the SPCA. They will 'examine' him, neuter him, give him his shots, and one dose of Revolution all in one day. They are supposed to release him the very same evening, but i'm currently trying to find someone to lend me a big dog crate so i can keep him in for 24h. I can block the kitchen access for my cat so she wont go and bother him. Fingers crossed i can find the crate, and that he knows how to use the litter box and not spray his pee all over like i see him do outside. My cat carrier is too small and have little money to invest in a bigger one (besides, no room for a litter box in there). It's still warm here, around 25C in the day, but it goes down to 10-15C at night time. So a bit cold for a freshly neutered cat. Just hope it doesn't rain for days following his surgery.
But all that is on hold again, as i need to start from scratch (pun intended) with the trap. I left it in the yard, but as soon as i put the food down, he eats but gets bothered by 5 wasps that seem to love his food. He even got stung, i think, cause he ran away swiftly yesterday while eating. So i just put the trap up on my second floor balcony just now, where there are less wasps. Problem is, he refused to follow me, even though i had just presented him a dish of A\d canned food. He actually growled on the way up next to me, and then ran down again. So i fed him halfway. Loved the A\d.
He came up this morning, but i guess he was so very hungry, cause he now seems scared to come up\ of my cat, and how she might be up there (she never is, she only has balcony priviledges from 4 till 7pm. I block the stairs with baby barrier) I even think they might have had episodes of not being nice through the window at night. That would explain the mess inside (carpet seemignly thrown across the room, food dish displaced) and outside (ashtray tipped over)
I might have to postpone the surgery till friday, or next week. So stressful.
I'm worried about him freaking out in the cage (if i can trap him), and him not responding well to surgery and all treatments. Also, if he tests positive for leukemia, they will put him down for sure. I think for HIV too. I"d hate for things to end like this for him, in a strange place and scared and alone, even though it would be in his best interest to end his life if he is sick.
Lots of stress for me , and soon for him too.

Hi @Pixies Ma

Unless I'm misunderstanding something about your particular situation, I'm not sure you have to start over with the trap.  Sure, I've read that you should put the trap out a week in advance to get them used to it, etc, but I wondered what the point in that was.  So I asked the place that neuters my ferals about that, they said it doesn't matter.  Maybe someone else can weigh in on this.  But ultimately, simply catch them.  Maybe, where he just had a bad experience with the wasps, he might be hesitant, but still just set it "ready to spring" and catch him.

And when you do, yes, he will likely feel a bit panicked but it's okay.  Cover the trap with a large towel and it will help him feel more secure and he'll quiet down.  When you bring him in, they will sedate him and do everything they need to do while he's off in la-la land so he won't even know it.

Due to the low incidence of FeLV (Feline Leukemia) and FIV (the cat version of HIV), it's currently recommended that you don't bother testing for them.

Even if they are positive....

FIV+ cats can live long healthy lives and the main source of spread is deep bite wounds.  Getting the males fixed so that they aren't inspired to fight over mating territory helps to prevent these major fights.  My ex-tom Nero is an FIV+ cat living indoors with my four FIV- cats.  And like Minou, he's very chill with other cats.  Casual "rough" play doesn't even spread it.  Nor does eating out of the same bowls or mutual grooming.

As for FeLV cats, 40% of them fight it off, and if they are already out there, they've probably passed it along anyway in the group they socialize with.  It's this combined with the low incidence that it's now recommended to not bother spending the money to test them unless you were to mix a new cat into your home in close contact with known FeLV- cats.

Ideally, both FIV+ and FeLV+ cats would have indoor homes to protect them, but as I said previously, nothing with ferals is ideal.  We can only do the best we can and turn them back out.  But to euthanize them while they are still healthy (good weight, eating, enjoying the one life that they have on this Earth, etc...) is a bit premature.  If they look sickly later, trap them and do what you need to do.

As for the litter box thing, so far all of the ferals I've fixed automatically use the litterbox.  It's their nature to bury their excrement and I've seen them do it outside in my front yard.

As for the males spraying, even though I've seen that outside, I haven't seen it inside while they are recovering.  That's no guarantee, but just my experience.  What I do though, just in case and when I'm using a large dog cage with open sides, is to get some plastic sheeting from Home Depot (like the kind you would put down on the floor if you were painting) and put that under the cage and out to the sides a bit.  I also cover the cage with a large sheet, so that if they spray it would just go onto the sheet and it can be washed.  Keeping them covered like that also gives them more of a sense of security.

But really, even if you have to keep him in the trap for 24 hours, it's really okay.  Put some plastic down (even a cut-open garbage bag) and some newspaper on top.  You can drop some food in from the top of the trap.  I'm not sure what to suggest for water.  Maybe get a cheap "hook on the side of the cage" water bottle like you would have for a rabbit from the pet store?  Or maybe just dropping in wet food might keep him hydrated enough just for the 24 hours.  Someone else would have to weigh in for that.

It's only 24 hours, so try not to stress about it too much.  It'll be done and over before you know it, and you will have done a great thing for him and for all of the other cats out there as well as preventing the birth of scores of kittens that would only suffer short lives.

We'll be here for any questions you have.  

@Pixies Ma

As for the growling, yes, he's just remembering what happened last time, but eventually he'll forget about it. 

Thanks for taking the time to reply, as always.

The SPCA recommended that he get used to the cage as sort of a more humane way to trap him. Less trauma, i guess. But now i think i must put him in there myself. The big question is, how the heck do i do that?
I thought of putting some yummy food (just a little) at the bottom of the trap, but he has never been in past his shoulder. Do i just push him in and hope he doesn't open one of my veins in the process? I'd hate to have to spend the day at the ER while he's over there. I'd much rather stay home and stress.
And if he wont even go near the cage, how do i pick him up? How do i protect myself?
Poor baby...He really does seem very submissive and sweet. To be traumatized about my cat having a hissy fit at him. I also notice he is long to come when i call when all the other males are in the nieghbors yard. Like they wont let him pass. Just a thought.

About FELV and FIV, how strange is is that my vet had told me it is very common amongst ferals. This is why i had my own cat tested before i had her spayed, because she comes from the slums. Cost me a fortune. Not sure if its perhaps more common in my region (Quebec) than yours (??).
SPCa asks for 25$ for the test.
The reason i feel it would be best to test him (besides low cost) is that he is thin. We are 3-4 people to feed him. I'm not sure how much he eats with them, but sometimes i get a good can of good food in him per day. He could be thin regardless because of worms, or it could be FeLV and\or FIV. Considering he *might* come in contact with mine one day (i plan on letting him in this winter when it's really cold if he wants to, but isolating him in the kitchen, but you never know) and how horribly cold our winters are, if he is sick with FeLV or advance stage of FIV, i'd rather they put him down than suffer in a couple months. Of course, i'd be very sad, but i think it would be best for him. I am unsure if he is healthy. He seems to have ups and downs. He's not eating well today. Perhaps he ate elsewhere, perhaps its the damn wasps, perhaps he's just not feeling well.

My friend has a large dog crate, so i'll do that for 24h+, with plastic protection. I'll simply put a small bowl of water in there and hope he doesn't spill it in a panic, away from the litter box, and water down his canned meals for extra hydration. The kitchen will be blocked with 2 baby barriers, and my cat will be kept in my bedroom overnight, and while im at work the next day.

This, of course, is always IF i can actually trap the feral creature. Any tips on that are most welcome!

I'm guessing you're using a raccoon trap?  Try putting something like sardines on a small paper plate in the way back of it.  I couldn't catch one once with tuna, but sardines did the trick!

I can't remember -- have you been able to pick him up?  If so, and if trying to trap him with sardines after several tries doesn't work, perhaps the best way would be to be prepared with a towel over your arm and then "burrito" him and put him in a regular cat carrier or even a dog carrier.  Even domestic cats struggle about being put into something.

Honestly, while I appreciate that the SPCA is wanting to reduce the trapping trauma (and I would too if I could), I think the experience will be the same for him regardless.  I might try it sometime, just to see, but my guess is the experience of being "trapped" isn't going to feel any better regardless of the warm-up to it.  There's a sudden bang, and they can't escape.  They tend to dive at the corners, rushing back and forth, but eventually settle a bit.  Like said, putting a towel over the trap definitely helps calm them.

Many ferals are on the thin side, even if they are fed, due to worms, etc.  However, I agree that it's worth having them assess his condition and his age.  If he IS in the latter stages of something, it would be more humane to put him down, sad as it may feel, rather them him soon suffer through "the bitter end".

Make sure they check him for a microchip.  Sometimes the cats outside that aren't doing so well aren't true ferals.  They just don't know how to take care of themselves as well as ferals do.  There's a small chance that he could be a lost pet that is just timid.  Worth checking out just to be sure.

If you are planning on bringing him inside for the winters (which is sooo sweet of you!), make sure he's vaccinated for FeLV and that Pixie is too.  I would recommend against vaccinating for FIV, per my vet, because once vaccinated for that, they ALWAYS show up as FIV+ even if they aren't, and the effectiveness is questionable.

If you find you need to keep him outside in the winter, you could always make a little wind-shelter for him and put an enclosed cat bed, where his own body heat will keep him warm.  There are even heated cat beds, but also some that just have "heat-reflective" properties.

When you get him fixed, consider deworming him.  Even a month's break may do him some good.  And maybe with regular food after that, he might not get worms again, or maybe not as bad.  That's just a guess of mine--ask the vets.

I am so glad you care about this poor guy!  Someone loves him and I'm sure it means the world to him!  

One of the moderators on here (wish I could give credit but I'm going blank on who), has a thing at the bottom of their posts that says something to the effect of:  "Saving one cat doesn't make a difference in the world, but it makes a world of difference to that one cat."  I believe in that.

If the plan is for him to go into surgery the same day you take him in then they will not want him to eat or drink anything for about 12 hours prior to surgery because it could make him sick, or cause him to aspirate the contents into his lungs should he get sick while under anesthesia.  So that's a few hours you won't have to worry about getting food/water into him. 

As far as the hissing stuff my kitties are going through the exact same thing right now.  Izzy is a little tiny girl and was 100% feral when I rescued her, but she's coming around slowly but surly.  Sammy is a gentle giant of a cat.  He was starving when I 1st saw him and although I was feeding him outside, I brought him in because he killed one of my favorite baby wild squirrels, along with about a gazillion birds that had been coming to my house to eat.  Izzy sits on the counter and hisses constantly at him when they are both out (which we've only attempted once so far and it ended with them being doused by water to prevent the fight that was getting ready to occur).  I have their cages side by side and that's where they sleep at night, but Izzy will hiss, and growl at 1st, and Sammy never makes a sound.  After some time, she'll  finally lay down and go to sleep. When we let Sammy out of his cage in the morning he will practically tiptoe past her cage acting as though he's scared of her.  But when one or the other are out they walk on top of the other ones cage, or lay there by the other ones cage, so who knows what's going on in their little minds?  Do they like each other, or are they doing that to taunt the other one?  Only time will tell.    

I am 100% sure he is feral. I knew him as a kitten, but could never approach him. That's how i know he's 4 years old. Him coming for food and pettings is very recent. That started a couple weeks ago. He only went to the neighbors before. He started coming to our yard when his sister\life partner died in the spring a new males came.
Yep, raccoon trap. Its long, but pretty narrow. I plan on using about a teaspoon of the canned food he really likes to lure him in.
Nope, i never actually tried to pick him up. The residual feral response impressed me too much to even dare picking him up. I'll have to do the burrito thing though. Maybe he'll be so hungry he will go right in. Or maybe he wont and ill have to use my oven mittens.
It's funny you should mention a microchip, cause this just happened; *Another* black and white cat was calling from the back yard as i was smoking on my balcony. So i called him and when he came up, i could see it was not Minou. This one, that i had never seen before, had a tag so i called the number. Turns out, he's just a regular house cat that sometimes goes out, so all was fine. But i asked the woman if she knew about Minou, and she said she thinks he belongs to the guy living in her building. So i called the guy, and he indeed has a black and white cat who is unfixed and lives outside. But his cat has a collar. Minou never had one. Guy says a lot of cats go to his yard, and he vaguely remembers another black and white, but could never approach him as he is feral. Ok, so Minou is indeed homeless, feral, and without caregivers.
Phew...that was close. I thought i was going to get another person's cat neutered! And perhaps adopt him! What an adventure...This literally just happened as i was typing a response to you.
I was saying?
No FIV vaccines. Will ask if the Felv vaccine is available at the SPCA for Minou. Already planned on getting Pix vaccinated for Felv, but the tech said she would need annual 'all dressed' shots if she is in contact with an outside cat? Huh? I thought vaccines were good for 3 years?What do you think?
I'm getting a shelter from the SPCA. Its basically a Rubbermaid bin with a styrofoam cooler inside. I have no electricity on my balcony though. Something to plan for, perhaps.
As for worms, i think Revolution treats worms too no? I plan on finding him two more doses so i can treat him till winter, and pick up again in the spring. The vet at the SPCA refuses to give out presciption for it, idk why, so i'll have to go on the 'black market' for the followup doses. Which kinda sucks.

Love the quote!

Oh sorry, i just saw your post.
I am concerned about lung aspiration and him not being 100% empty stomached, but i plan on using no more than a tea spoon. Besides, i cant even vouch for him; he might eat mice overnight.
I worry about these things too, but i tell myself i need to trust the SPCA as they do this often and they wouldnt if it was dangerous. But then again, who would know\tell them if the TNR cats do well or not after being released back unless the people really look out for them and acutally follow up with the SPCA. Gah....
What IS that tiptoe-ing about? Ive seen cats do this. What does it mean? Minou was eating and another male came to get a piece of it. Minou stepped back, growled and yowled, and the other cat just tiptoed to the dish and ate. Ive been staying besides him when he eats ever since, so he wont get bothered by others stealing his food.

Honestly, any cat that comes onto my legal property is getting fixed, owned or not.  The way I see it, if people are worried about that, then they shouldn't let unfixed cats wander about the neighborhood to cause a community problem.  I had an ethical conundrum with that once, and since then it's "don't ask, don't tell" for me.  I have decided it's a greater good to just get them fixed.

But yes, I remember now you said you knew him as a kitten.  And if you haven't picked him up yet, I would try the food, but then if that's unsuccessful, try the sardines.  I'd avoid trying to pick him up.

Not sure about the "all dressed" vaccine you mentioned for Pix.  Or about any lasting 3 years.  Or a difference on if they are in contact with an outside cat.  Maybe someone else that knows more can weigh in here?  Or check on the net or with another vet.  Mine don't have access to outside cats so I'm not in the know on some of that.

I'm not sure either on Revolution taking care of worms.  However, as you said, you could probably find source on the internet to get something for that.

So glad you are helping this baby!!

There is a lot of different opionions on vaccines. Some say yearly if going outside and in contact with, some say 3 years.
Revoolution takes care of roundworms for sure, and some other types i think.

I just spoke to the SPCA lady, and she insists it's best for him to be released in his homeland the same day (between 9-10pm). She says since he hasn't been in my house, it would cause him more stress to suddenly be inside than being outside.

I dont know if i'll catch him. He's been aloof these past 2 days. Maybe he can sense something is up. He did not sleep around my place last night or the night before, and it takes him a long time to come when i call, if he even does come. He eats, but not always all his food, and doesn't linger long after for pettings. And i just showed him sardines from accross the Frost fence. He smelled it, spoke to me, but did not come.
Like i said, maybe he can sens my stress, or maybe he's not feeling well. It's even harder to trap a cat that is not feeling well.

Quick update (i thought i aleady did but can't see the post)
I was unable to trap Minou on thursday. Starting the process from scratch. He eats head in today, and i got till Monday to get him to go all in.
Asked the neighbors to not feed the cats starting saturday, so he will reply on me more for food. When he grew frustrated of not getting to the food in the cage cause too scared, he simply went to the neighbors to wait for their food, which was a hassle cause i had to coax him back 5 times on the morning of the attempted trapping.
There will be plenty of kibble in the cage for all cats to come eat if they want over the weekend. Point is, it's food in the cage or nothing (or mice...)
Do not fear, 2 of the 4 cats have medals and owners in the area, so they won't starve. They eat next door cause they can. One of the ferals\stray eats 2 doors down and not here so much, so he'll be fine. And then there's Minou, who will have no choice but to eat in the cage.
Hope this plan makes trapping easier and smoother.
 

@CatSnip404  I think the circle of death is gone. At least, it was tonight.
Tonight i was hearing something eating the kibble i left in the trap down in the yard, so i went to to see if it was Minou (it was dark) and nope, it was a skunk!
Minou must have heard me come down cause he popped out of wherever i was hiding, so i coaxed him up my balcony so he wouldn't get sprayed. He was very vocal, so i gave him something to eat, which he devoured.
Then, this happened; After some petting, i sat down on my chair to have a smoke. And he jumped on my lap! Started head butting me on the face multiple times, kneading (he punched holes in my pajamas with his massive dagger claws). I just froze. I was afraid he would go into feral mode and claw my face off. But no, he curled up, and put his head on my chest, kneading my breasts (ouch). At some point i worried he would hear my heart pounding and smell my fear, and i felt a vibration. Thought it was growling, but he was simply purring. 
He's adorable. Unfortunately, i don't trust him as much as he seemed to trust me at that moment. I know dogs and can understand their language, but cats are so different and (i feel) unpredictable, even the non-feral ones.
I didn't think he had it in him. I am 100% sure he is feral, and nobody ever let him in their home. He only got petted from basement windows. How can he be so good with a human?
After a few minutes of this, i was so uncomfortable and i didn't want anything to happen to ruin the moment, i tried to stand up so he would get off. But he seemed unwilling to do so, so i basically slid down the chair and he slid off me. Poor guy...all trusty, but i can't trust him.
And i was very itchy afterwards. I showered and changed, but for sure, i got some fleas and\or mites inside with me.
What an experience that was. He seems to make progress in giant leaps, that one. Never expected him to be so closely and boldly affectionate. 
I consider it an honor.

Pixies Ma said:

 
@CatSnip404  I think the circle of death is gone. At least, it was tonight.
Tonight i was hearing something eating the kibble i left in the trap down in the yard, so i went to to see if it was Minou (it was dark) and nope, it was a skunk!
Minou must have heard me come down cause he popped out of wherever i was hiding, so i coaxed him up my balcony so he wouldn't get sprayed. He was very vocal, so i gave him something to eat, which he devoured.
Then, this happened; After some petting, i sat down on my chair to have a smoke. And he jumped on my lap! Started head butting me on the face multiple times, kneading (he punched holes in my pajamas with his massive dagger claws). I just froze. I was afraid he would go into feral mode and claw my face off. But no, he curled up, and put his head on my chest, kneading my breasts (ouch). At some point i worried he would hear my heart pounding and smell my fear, and i felt a vibration. Thought it was growling, but he was simply purring. 
He's adorable. Unfortunately, i don't trust him as much as he seemed to trust me at that moment. I know dogs and can understand their language, but cats are so different and (i feel) unpredictable, even the non-feral ones.
I didn't think he had it in him. I am 100% sure he is feral, and nobody ever let him in their home. He only got petted from basement windows. How can he be so good with a human?
After a few minutes of this, i was so uncomfortable and i didn't want anything to happen to ruin the moment, i tried to stand up so he would get off. But he seemed unwilling to do so, so i basically slid down the chair and he slid off me. Poor guy...all trusty, but i can't trust him.
And i was very itchy afterwards. I showered and changed, but for sure, i got some fleas and\or mites inside with me.
What an experience that was. He seems to make progress in giant leaps, that one. Never expected him to be so closely and boldly affectionate. 
I consider it an honor.

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I've seen this happen with cats before.  They decide to trust and they're all in.  My sister got a kitten named Pumpkin.  She was around 5 or 6 months old.  She hid for days.  She would come out to eat but as soon as she saw us, she hid again.  Then one evening, she jumped on my lap purring and nuzzling and from that moment on, she was the cuddliest, neediest cat ever - Murphy may have her beat, but it would be a close tie.  She did a complete 180.  Sounds like Minou.

Honestly, I think cats are just as loyal and trustworthy as dogs.  But, I'm more of a cat person.  I understand cat language much better than dog language.  I'm much more comfortable around cats than dogs.  Have been ever since I can remember.

Alicia88 said:

 
Honestly, I think cats are just as loyal and trustworthy as dogs.  But, I'm more of a cat person.  I understand cat language much better than dog language.  I'm much more comfortable around cats than dogs.  Have been ever since I can remember.

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Up till last summer, i hadn't had cats in over a decade (i had dogs). Back then, i admit i didn't bother much with communication. I'd keep them fed (cheap food), clean their box, pet them a bit, go to the vet when they seemed really sick, etc..The minimum. No cats trees, no hunting sceances, no yearly exams
Now i take this stuff much more seriously with all kinds of prevention and care, and understanding how they communicate, body language. Minou has so many kinds of meows and doesn't move quite like mine moves. And my own sometimes puzzle me. Like right after she sees Minou or knows ive been with him when i come inside, she freaks out with loud high pitched meows and she gets all in my path, all obsessive. Have no idea why she does that. Like she thinks i have him in my pocket? It's like when i have her food in my hand and am about to feed her, but 10x louder. Like kitten meows.
I really got into dog lingo a while back cause one of my dogs had kennel syndrome and was anxious .I had to educate myself. Now i'm very curious about cat lingo.
Do you know of a thread talking about that?

You did have a break through!  From the sound of it, he has chosen you to be his human.  I would take it slowly and keep allowing him to cuddle when he wants to. You may very well have found a smoking companion for life.

One thing I would suggest is getting a flea treatment on him.  I use Revolution - it goes on the back of the neck and lasts up to 30 days.  This will help him as well as keep you from tracking in the little buggers.  Ask the vet when you are able to take him in.

About your inside cat - she is telling you she smells the intruder and maybe giving you her thoughts on the matter.  Is there a way you can get a sweaty t-shirt and leave it out for Minou to sleep on?  After a few days, bring it in and feed your inside cats treats on it.  She will associate his smell with good things.  BY the time they meet, she should be feeling a little better about him.

I think his new found trust is to your advantage.  After you trap him he will be suspicious again for awhile.  But I doubt it will last long, considering that he's decided you are his human now.

Ondine, he will get a dose of Revolution at the SPCA for sure, and i have found someone to provide other doses to keep it up monthly

I have read\watched Jackson Galaxie articles on introducing a new cat to a household and i think i could pull it off if i take it real slow. If all goes well and he trusts me again, he will want to come in at some point as it is getting cold here. I can always lock mine in the bathroom and have them eat on both sides of the door. Then after a while and if i hear no growling, i'll move to baby covered baby barriers. This is a long process it seems, and i'll have to take it slow if i want things to go as smoothly as possible.

Last night's love fest made me really want to, at some point, have him mostly living inside if he wants to. Mine is very active and cheeky though, so i have to be careful with not having a bloodbath in my home.

We'll see after he's been TNRed how things go. But if he has really claimed me as his human, i'll gladly claim him as my cat.

Sounds like you have covered all the bases.  Keep us posted.  I have a feeling Minou is on for  a lifetime of love

I think a lot of reading cat body language is about instinct.  Or something.  I've found that I'm really good at reading body language - but it's not something I consciously do and most of the time, I can't explain what I saw that causes me to, I guess analyze, body language.  For instance, I always know when I'm being lied to.  Especially with people I know well.  

I agree that it sounds like Minou has claimed you.  Accept it - you are not owned by 2 cats.  Hehe