Hissing In The Circle Of Certain Death

catsnip404

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I enjoy the challenge of trying to gain the trust of the ferals that come to my house, and I've noticed a pattern that I wonder if others have noticed too.

I've only worked with ferals for the past year, so maybe this is common knowledge that I've rediscovered on my own--but hissing, while clearly an unmistakable warning that requires being taken seriously, can sometimes also be a sign of progress.

We talk about "stepping outside our comfort zone", as if there's a circle around us. With feral/scared cats, it's sort of the opposite. Oh sure, there's a circle around us alright, but it's "The Circle of Certain Death" in their minds.

Once I get them beyond running off at the sight of me, they stay comfortably and silently way outside of this invisible circle while they wait for me to feed them.

I know it's said that it's not typical for a feral to meow at you, and I agree that they never do in the beginning. But it appears that the stronger the association becomes between you and "Turkey & Giblets" or "Savory Salmon" wet food in their minds, the rule bends.

In my observation, the stronger the association and the more their anticipation grows, the closer to the perimeter of the death circle they will wait. This progression can take weeks or months. Once they get to where they are waiting at the very boundary of the death circle, they will begin to meow at me, not boldly per se, like an indoor cat would, but almost tentatively, somewhat in anticipation for sure, but perhaps also due to feeling a little conflicted between wanting to come closer to me (aka "the food source"…I don't kid myself that they view me any other other way) but not daring to cross that invisible line.

Every cat has a different personality, and the more nervous ones are content to stay meowing at the perimeter, sometimes allowing it shrink, but very slowly over time.

However, if a cat has a bold enough personality and builds up enough courage to one day step nervously INSIDE The Circle of Certain Death, they start hissing at me. I can't see the perimeter of the circle, and it varies for each cat, but it's clear to me when they cross it because often they start hissing.

That's when I know I'm really starting to make some progress with them. It's like they're saying, "You know, even though it makes me really nervous, I'm willing to come inside the circle, but you better not mess with me!"

And of course, I don't mess with them. I just do the same thing I normally do to reassure them with non-threatening body language, soft tones and slow eye blinks while I go about my business as normal. After a week or so, once they realize that The Circle Of Certain Death has not consumed them and is actually a pretty good place to be, the hissing subsides and much more rapid progress seems to happen after that.

It's even happened inside the house with a feral I was rehabbing--to his own credit, he pushed his own boundaries of what he'd been comfortable with after hiding in the carrier for a week whenever I was in the room.  Although he had dry food available, he wanted the wet food that he had grown accustomed to, and woke me up with meowing, sitting next to his wet food dish.  I had to blink my eyes a few times as I woke to believe it, but when I lifted my head, he hissed at me, but stayed where he was.  If I hadn't already seen this pattern and recognized it for what it was, it would have been creepy in a Cujo kinda way...

It seems that, outside or inside, hissing can in some cases be a sign that they've taken that next uncertain step of trust. Just curious if others have noticed this phenomenon.
 
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StefanZ

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Yes, hissing isnt always actually threating, sometimes its sort of self assuring.   It may also be sort of buying some extra time, but essentially allowing to happen what is going to happen.

Its often seen for example, weighting kittens of a semiferal momma.  She is warning, BUT as long you do it respectfully and so she sees it, she does allows you to handle them.
 

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I really enjoyed reading this.  You have a very good way of describing the progress cats make as they becoming more socialized.

It also reminded me of the cat in my avatar.  He is 10 years old; was six months old when we brought him inside.  We did everything wrong.  As a result, he is still more feral than house cat.  He hisses at me anytime I approach him, especially if he hasn't seen me coming.  I may not even realize he is near until he hisses.

We recently moved and I think it traumatized him a little, as he is even more cautious than he was before.  Your post made me feel a little better about him.   Thanks!
 
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baar baar jinx

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In support of your theory, I can report that one of the feral kittens I'm currently trying to socialize had a habit, in the very beginning, of approaching me in  seemingly friendly manner when I first entered the room, but hissing once or twice, before meowing. He has since stopped doing that (but is not really meowing any more either).
 
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catsnip404

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Hi @Ondine  !  I'm so glad the post made you feel better!  Absolutely, these cats didn't start off hissing at me...they only started hissing once they decided to trust me.  So it sounds like your kitty trusts you enough to be willing to enter "the circle".

And every cat is different.  My two "regular" ferals likely came from the same litter as they seem to be about the same age, often show up together, and seem very comfortable with each other.  The orange one is very brave--he will now come very close, and actually even rubbed against my knee the other day for the first time as I was putting out wet food, but I can't touch him unless I "sneak" a touch and he immediately ducks and runs several feet away.  The black and white one still maintains his distance, but is starting to come a little closer, as if he's taking the orange one's lead that I'm "okay".

They both crash out on my porch now during the day.  The orange one went through that hissing phase, but the black/white one did not and maintains much more distance.

Nero, my avatar cat, is the one you might have read about before.  He was a tom that I fixed and took in.  It started with hissing outside, and then hissing inside, and now he's a love.  BUT he also has his limits that my completely domesticated cats don't have.  He wouldn't be good with children for sure, and even rehoming him (which I would never do) would likely not be an option as he would probably revert.  He even gets weirded out with me at times (evidenced by his little pink tongue licking his upper lip) and I have to reassure him.

So every cat is different, and your baby might not get beyond the hissing, but the hissing is a good sign for sure!  From what I can tell in these cases, it just means, "I'm feeling a little nervous, but I want to be near you."
 
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Alicia88

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This is very interesting.  I've been playing Pokemon Go and I usually walk around the college campus at night.  A couple of weeks ago, a saw a tiny little kitten dart across the road and narrowly miss being crushed by a large truck.  I didn't even realize I'd stopped breathing until I saw him get safely across.  I crossed the road after him, but he completely vanished.  Since then, I've caught glimpses of him, but he always gets away and I can't figure out where he went.

Last night, something great happened.  I was driving home and I saw a couple of girls - I think they were college age - carrying the little guy.  The one who was holding him was gently stroking his head and talking softly.  So somehow they caught him and it looked like they were taking him home.  :)
 
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catsnip404

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@Alicia88  -- Awww that's great that they were able to catch him and I hope they can give him a forever home!

Absolutely love the pic you have up!  Soooo cute!!
 
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catsnip404

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I'm becoming more convinced that my theory has at least a little weight.  I had it happen again today.  This one ("Titus") got to where he would hang out on my deck, but would still move off to a safer distance when I came outside with the food.  But today he hissed at me, twice no less, while staying on the deck, and then laid down again while I put his wet food out.  I was careful not to look at him too much.  As disconcerting as it might be for us, I do think hissing can be a sign of trust on some level.  Otherwise, they wouldn't bother--they could simply move away to what's comfortable for them.
 
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catsnip404

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Btw, in my progress with them, I don't mean to sound like "I'm so special that cats just like me".  No, I go to levels where I wonder what my neighbors might think if they saw me out on my back deck.  LOL!!

What seems to work is very incremental, and really there's a lot of deference shown to them, speaking to them in their own body language and me baby-talking.

Although I have one now that has become almost brazen.  He was a runner too in the beginning, but now he will sit right there and swipe at my hand, whether I have food or not.  Not full claws, but he can leave superficial scratches.  I never would have thought it, but now I'm working on teaching him that that's not okay.  He had a bold personality, unlike his brother that still skirts the edges but is letting the "circle" shrink over time.
 

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We have a swiper, too.  He's now an inside lovebug but if he gets challenged, he will take a swipe.

I agree with you, too.  Taking everything in baby steps seems to work best.  I do not want to know what my neighbors think of me!!!  
 

pixies ma

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It seems that, outside or inside, hissing can in some cases be a sign that they've taken that next uncertain step of trust. Just curious if others have noticed this phenomenon.
My Gods, this is exactly how it happened for Mr.Feral and i.
He is feral, i knew him as a kitten from a distance. He has had some human contact for 4 years from the woman who feeds him next door, but i find him thin so i wanted to feed him too.
We had gotten to the point where i could put some food down, sit two yards away, and he would eventually come and eat. Then, the week where we had progressed to one yard, he hissed at me as i was setting the food down. I thought, and i'm sure said out loud, what's his problem today? I think the next day he started rubbing himself on something invisible around me (could it be the circle of death rubbing? Haha) and the next day he let me touch him. He's been headbudding me ever since. He LOVES being petted after eating. Rolls around showing his belly. And he talks a lot. Bold meows when i call him, when he sees the food, when he wants me to scratch his fleas, etc. And small soft meows when he's rubbing himself on me and when i talk to him and his belly is full.
This reminds me, last week i was coaxing him to finish his meal cause it had lysine in it, but he wanted to be petted. So i was petting him and showing him his plate. I looked away for a second and he bit my arm. He didn't bite hard though. But my tone changed a bit cause it caught me off guard and then he went to hide under the BBQ tarp. But i reckon, if he wanted to hurt me, he would have. So i'm still confused about what that pseudo bite was about. He usually lets me turns his plate while he eats, but maybe it was just a feral reflex about food. Any ideas?
I'm gonna read the rest of the thread now. This is too good.
 

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My Gods, this is exactly how it happened for Mr.Feral and i.
He is feral, i knew him as a kitten from a distance. He has had some human contact for 4 years from the woman who feeds him next door, but i find him thin so i wanted to feed him too.
We had gotten to the point where i could put some food down, sit two yards away, and he would eventually come and eat. Then, the week where we had progressed to one yard, he hissed at me as i was setting the food down. I thought, and i'm sure said out loud, what's his problem today? I think the next day he started rubbing himself on something invisible around me (could it be the circle of death rubbing? Haha) and the next day he let me touch him. He's been headbudding me ever since. He LOVES being petted after eating. Rolls around showing his belly. And he talks a lot. Bold meows when i call him, when he sees the food, when he wants me to scratch his fleas, etc. And small soft meows when he's rubbing himself on me and when i talk to him and his belly is full.
This reminds me, last week i was coaxing him to finish his meal cause it had lysine in it, but he wanted to be petted. So i was petting him and showing him his plate. I looked away for a second and he bit my arm. He didn't bite hard though. But my tone changed a bit cause it caught me off guard and then he went to hide under the BBQ tarp. But i reckon, if he wanted to hurt me, he would have. So i'm still confused about what that pseudo bite was about. He usually lets me turns his plate while he eats, but maybe it was just a feral reflex about food. Any ideas?
I'm gonna read the rest of the thread now. This is too good.
My cats nip at me.  I call them love bites.  They don't hurt at all.
 

pixies ma

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Alicia, he did it again yesterday. He was not happy. I had the audacity of stroking his side while he was laying down, begging for rubs. I think my arm was in the general area of his side the first time too. Guess it's a sensitive spot. He is mad with affection one second, then BAM! Full feral mode. But that's ok, i get it. I'm like that with men 
 

Alicia88

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Alicia, he did it again yesterday. He was not happy. I had the audacity of stroking his side while he was laying down, begging for rubs. I think my arm was in the general area of his side the first time too. Guess it's a sensitive spot. He is mad with affection one second, then BAM! Full feral mode. But that's ok, i get it. I'm like that with men 
Who isn't?
 
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catsnip404

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 I think the next day he started rubbing himself on something invisible around me (could it be the circle of death rubbing? Haha) 
LOL!!  You have a good point!  Maybe once they get "inside" the original Circle of Certain Death, there's an Uberdeath Circle that they rub on.....

 Arancionini (the orange one) does exactly that.  He did rub on my knee that once while I was facing in a different direction and not paying attention, but every other time it looks like he's rubbing on something invisible -- maybe that shrunken death circle!  Rubbing is scent marking, and he goes back and forth and it looks like he's trying to scent mark the air in the vicinity of my legs.  XD

As for the biting, love bites do happen as @Alicia88  mentioned, but in this case, I think your assessment of this particular bite is spot on.  Nero, the cat in my picture, is an ex-Tom cat now living happily inside with a harem of spayed females.  However, the road to this point was interesting and filled with many milestones.  I couldn't touch him at first, but when I could, it was only to a certain point.  Like, if I gently stroked his head, he was fine with that, but if it went beyond his neck, he might duck away and hiss, or even give me a "flash bite" which was quick and painless and/or a swipe that really wasn't a big deal either.  Eventually "the red line" moved to the middle of his back.  Then it was his sides.  Etc.  Now I can touch his legs and even his belly a bit, and pick him up.

You are spot on about the arm positioning thing.  One thing I noticed during this process was "angle of approach" and "arm placement" was a big deal for him.  I discovered I had to be conscious of both of those during the process.  And you reckon correctly that if he wanted to really hurt you he could.  One of my horse vets won't do the barn cats.  He swore off cats after vet school.  He'd rather be kicked by a horse.

As for Mr. Feral, with the "flash bite" he was expressing discomfort with something he perceived and he wanted it to stop but didn't want to hurt you.  And it's okay and natural that you responded with a stern tone.  I did the same too, and he ran off, and I felt bad after, but it didn't have any long-term impact and also may serve a purpose of "it's not okay to bite" in the long run.  Simply running is best.  LOL!!

A word of caution:  even once you are able to pet him fully, be careful of approaching him with your face, for example, to lean in to kiss him on his head.  That's an instinctive threat to a cat.  After Nero had gotten quite comfortable with me touching him, I leaned in to give him a kiss and discovered another "red line".  In a flurry of motion, he slapped me with both paws on the sides of my head.  I'm happy to report now that I can kiss him on the head with no ill effects.  However, there are still times he seems a little uncertain with some things that he would normally be used to.  I might see his little pink tongue lick out (a sign of stress/anxiety) and/or he might duck away.  Some of these residual defenses may never go completely away.  Don't take it to heart--just reassure him.  Never would I suddenly pick Nero up and try to do "kissy face" on him.  I am certain that would never go over well.

It sounds to me that your instincts about his reactions are right on mark.

Is Mr. Feral fixed?
 
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catsnip404

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@Pixies Ma

Btw, as an update, I experienced "the next day" thing too after the recent hissing episode with Titus. For sure, not all respond this way, but today he would eat at my feet.  He wasn't totally comfortably per se, as he threatened to run off at the slightest move, but he clearly was making an effort to trust.
 
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catsnip404

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@Pixies Ma

LOL!  One last update before bed...

I had picked up Nero (the "ex-feral"), loved on him, and he was cool with that, but after I put him back down (gently) he weirded out.  He just kind of ducked and looked over his shoulder at me like I had offended him.  I believe in ending on a good note where possible, so I tried with him, with mixed success, until I got a positive sign from him that he was okay with us.

Point is, you may always receive a somewhat feral response now and again, but don't take it to heart.
 
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