Kid Question

Thank you for this..I am going to print and take it to the doctor's office tomorrow.

Abby, there are a couple of things you have posted that might give you a clue as to what's going on. The first is that you mentioned his dad's house. From this, I'll assume you and his dad are separated/divorced. Are there interactions between you and his dad that may make Mr nearly 7 feel anxious, scared etc? Kids are very perceptive and he may be picking up on your body language, what you don't say or your tone with each other. Does he stay with his dad on a regular basis eg. on weekends, every second weekend etc? Have you asked him why he won't sleep the night at his dad's house? Is there something there that's making him scared or anxious?

Another thing is, you said he has never had an accident at school. Sit down and really think about what it is about school that is different. Is it because things are very ordered? Is it because his mind is busy but in short bursts? Is it because others are going to the toilet too? Is it because of what he eats or drinks at school? Do the toilets everywhere but school have something like scary/too high/seat too big etc. that the school toilets don't have? Are they those cute little ones for smaller kids?

Something that can really make a child afraid of the toilet is constipation. He will hold on as long as he can because it hurts to go and then, of course, it makes him more constipated. Because he's holding on, he doesn't wee either, so he gets a really full bladder too.

You also said that his accidents happen every 2 and a half months, almost to the day. This makes me think that it really is something external that is happening. Can you look back and see what has happened in the 1-2 weeks before you notice his accidents again? You'll have to be a good detective with this one. Do you go to a certain park regularily? Do you get your car/house cleaned? Do you go to the zoo/pool/playground/restaurant every couple of months? What you're looking for here is a place that he comes into contact with a specific food/chemical/plant/drink about every 2 months or so.

My last point isn't a nice thing to think about but must be explored as an option. Is there anyone who may be harming your son? I can't go into too much detail here but hopefully you'll understand what I'm getting at. PM me if you need to about this.

Good luck with finding a solution, he sounds like a lovely boy.

You certainly have thought of somethings I havent..His father and I are great as friends and terrible at living together. I dont think we have fought or exhanged words one time since we have been separated (7 years) We broke up when I was pregnant. He goes to his dads every other weekend from 10am to 7pm. His father and I have agreed to this because the one time he did want to spend the night I ended up picking him up at midnight because he demanded to go home. There isnt anything that makes him scared that I know of. He has never acted like he didnt want to go, unless he hears that I am going to be doing something while he is gone and then he will put up a bit of a pout that hes not included.

I've never considered school being an issue. He's only there for afternoons this year. I assumed he never did this at school because it would embarrass him in front of his friends. I will try to ask him about this in the next few days. I dont want to wear him out on the subject to where everytime I try to talk to him about it he tunes me out.

We dont really have any regular activities. We do alot at home together and we go to my parents so the boys can ride their 4 wheelers all the time when its warm enough. In the summer we go to the park every few days and to the pool on the weekends when we are in town.

Your last point is every parents worst nitemare. Even though he only goes to places and people I know and trust, I never let my guard down about that. That tends to raise its ugly head when you least expect it. I have always been way over the top about my children's safety but I dont think you can ever be too cautious.

And last but most important, he IS a lovely boy, both him and his brother are the greatest of the greatest to me. No matter what they do, that will never ever change. Like I told him this morning when we were talking about this, we have hit a slump, but we will pull out of this and conquer it like all the rest of the challenges weve encountered since we have been together. It will all work out, it always does. I may be bald and half insane, but we will get through it

Wow! Everyone's posts are truly excellent! As a clinical psychologist who works with children, I support everything that has been written by our very smart members. I strongly agree with everyone who said not to use punishment. The last thing you want is for your son to equate pottying with being in trouble.

Also, boys are much slower than girls at becomming fully potty trained. It is not unusual to see 12 year old boys who still wet the bed. However, daytime pee and poop problems are much less common, though at your son's age it is not a rarety at all.

As long as the physicians have found nothing wrong physically, the fact that he only does this at home suggests to me that he has a combination of a weak "I need to potty" signal AND some stressors that are leading to this problem. In general, when we see encopresis (poop problems) it is the child's symbolic way of saying that there is something $hitty about his life.

So, the first thing to do is to figure out what he is unhappy about. Is he an anxious/nervous child? Does he get sad often? Does he look forward to visiting his dad? Does he sleep in his own bed without fear? Does he feel like he has to protect you by being happy or by keeping you happy? How much one-on-one time do you two spend together...does HE feel like he gets enough undivided attention from you? How are his relationships with his peers? Are they nice to him or does he get picked on? Does he have a few good friends or is he a loner? etc...

Second, you need to figure out whether there are any reinforcers for these accidents. In almost all boys with encopresis I have worked with, the time they got the most undivided, one-on-one attention from the parents was when the boys had a big, smushed-into-the-underware poop that needed to be cleaned. Once we made sure that the parents no longer helped the child clean his bottom or his clothes in any way, AND spent a good 10 minutes of undivided attention doing whatever non-violent game the child wanted to play on clean-bottom days, most of the problems disappeared. Note that the child gets this special "I get to chose the game" time only if he has pooped in the toilet (and you witness the results) and his underware is completely clean (not even any skid marks). (Of course, always spend lots of time with the child, but only give him his special "I get to chose" time when he is clean and poops in the toilet.)

Third, take a look at your life. Very often, the parents of kids with encopresis are dealing with a great deal of stress in their own lives. They are often struggling with depression for example, or perhaps anxiety problems or even substance abuse problems. This certainly is not always the case, but children are excellent barometers of how their parents are doing. So, he may be picking up on stress that you are experiencing. Perhaps not...but, it is worth thinking about.

Finally, make sure his diet is healthy. Feed him lots of fiber, vegetables, and fruit (except bananas which are constipating). Cut down on the junk food. By retraining his colon (with healthy high-fiber food) and retraining his sphincter with the above suggestions, I think you will find success.

So, the first thing to do is to figure out what he is unhappy about. Is he an anxious/nervous child? Does he get sad often? Does he look forward to visiting his dad? Does he sleep in his own bed without fear? Does he feel like he has to protect you by being happy or by keeping you happy? How much one-on-one time do you two spend together...does HE feel like he gets enough undivided attention from you? How are his relationships with his peers? Are they nice to him or does he get picked on? Does he have a few good friends or is he a loner? etc...

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He is a "fly by the seat of his pants" child. Totally fearless and hits new things head on with no trouble at all. He is very seldom sad-the last time he was sad was when the neighbor dogs killed the cats at my moms house (appx 2-3 months ago or so?) He does NOT sleep well and never has. He only started sleeping through the nite when we moved into the house we have now. He was always sick as a baby and spent the first year almost continuiously on antibiotics for ear infections. Hes also very small--hes about the size of an average 4 year old. I dont think he feels he has to keep me happy, I stay pretty happy all the time, but I cant work the buttons in his little head. He always feels like he needs to take care of someone or something and hes very very caring towards everyone. He has alot of friends at school but never wants to go to their house.

He would rather be with me all the time except when he goes to his dads house. He is always afraid of something happening to me and what would happen if something did happen to me. I was extremely ill with my youngest and spent the better part of my pregnancy in the hospital. He wasnt very old at the time 16 months to 20 months old and I think that has stuck with him too.

He and his brother and I were playing the other day and they finally asked me "Mom, dont you have anything else to do but play with us?" I told them I could find something else to do if they wanted to play alone for awhile. My youngest piped in with "well, we get tired of having to play with you too sometimes." LOL

I do know I dont live a stress free or even low stress life. I have a chronic illness and have been treated off and on for depression--nothing in the last year so thats a good thing.

I didnt know that bananas are constipating!!!! They eat every bit of 3 bunches of bananas a week. But that makes sense because they are included in the BRAT diet. They eat alot of apples, oranges and grapefruit and salad and are allowed a very very limited amount of junkfood, especially if it contains sugar because they become wall climbers.

I still plan to make a doctors appt tomorrow and take the print out of the website Deb linked me with. Once again, you have all managed to offer me some useful information. I really appreciate it, you dont know how much. Last nite when I posted this I thought there was no light at the end of the tunnel on this one, but the relief I feel now is unbelievable-Ive got somewhere to go from here now. I agree that all the posts have been extremely helpful and well appreciated. Thank you thank you thank you..kisses to you all. I will let you know what the dr says.

I have an appointment at 9am Wednesday. The doctor's office got a bit huffy sounding on the phone with me over even making the appointment because they have had an outburst of chicken pox. So, I explained in great detail what the problem was and mentioned the article that I had printed and nicely demanded that I get an appointment this week. Then I was asked why I waited so long and why now I felt this was urgent and I told them I have had lots of help and have been steered in a new direction on this and I want to speak to a doctor about this. Sheesh, would have been easier to book myself into the state hospital

My god, am I happy you posted here. I would have never thought to post this problem on a cat site, but why not???

I have the same problem with my almost 6 year old step-son. The only difference physically is that he never pees, it's just the #2's.

I'm ashamed to say that it's definatly our fault. He does the majority of it when he's with my husband and I (every weekend) and now I know why. he was being given time-outs every time he made this mistake.

Also, for years, his mother and my hub were in a terrible way against eachother. They've recently put their differences aside, finally, and we are all good friends at this point. She married a wonderful man whom my husband loves and I really think she's a great mom and we talk almost daily. I think we really have a good thing going now, but he is still pooping in his pants (and I mean a full load).

He's almost taken a humourous attitude twords it. When we yell or give him a time-out, he almost has a smirk (I just noticed this one last week). I talked to his mom about it and we weren't sure what to do. Little stinker is playing us like a card!!

Anyways, thanks for asking the question.....and thanks for everyone's answers. You helped a few people out on this post.

Karen

I would have never thought to post this problem on a cat site, but why not???

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They have helped me out on a few other issues with my cats and all worked very well..I thought surely these people are moms too and would have some advice on this I am so glad I did post this and I am glad that you found it helpful as well. This site is great and I cant compliment enough on the help Ive had with this and other problems with my furry kids too!!

I don't have any additional advice, but wanted to say thank you to lotsocats for posting! She is BY FAR the most qualified of all of us 'normal' people So thank you Renae!!!

I really hope you find the answer to your question. I'd be willing to be money though, that as soon enough he will doing fine! Please keep us posted on your situation, and good luck!

You mentioned he does this at your house and his dad's house, so I'm assuming the 2 of you aren't together. Maybe that has something to do with it and he's just not willing to talk about it, or he's too young to express his feelings. Just a thought.
I have heard many times that a lot of boys take longer to be fully trained. I have 2 girls and they were each different. My first was very easy and once she was trained there were no accidents. My second would wet the bed many nights until the age of 8 or so and a homeopathic remedy put an end to that, which was only given a 50/50 chance of helping. My doctor thought that her bladder might just be too small to hold it all night, like one of his kids, but apparantly not since she doesn't do it any more. I know that's different than what your son is doing, but I do hope you can resolve it.

I'm glad you're taking him to another doctor. It sounds like something emotional or psychological going on. Poor kid. Especially because he doesn't do it at school and it's kind of an infrequent thing. Keep us posted.

I have heard many times that a lot of boys take longer to be fully trained. I have 2 girls and they were each different. My first was very easy and once she was trained there were no accidents. My second would wet the bed many nights until the age of 8 or so and a homeopathic remedy put an end to that, which was only given a 50/50 chance of helping.

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I havent even begun to try to get them potty trained at night. They both wear pull-ups to bed and take them off immediately when they wake up. I tried letting him wear them during the day for the sake of laundry, which is when I was slammed with the previously posted comment about their non-leaking ability. One of my cousins still wets his bed and he is going on 12. I figure as long as he is struggling with the daytime pottying, trying to get nights taken care of as well would only add stress and probably make the problem worse rather than better.

I will keep you all posted and again thank you

Sorry about my post on your relationship status with his father. I guess I missed a page when I was reading through the posts and didn't see that it had been mentioned before.

No big deal RBG, Ive written so much I have to go back and look myself sometimes to see if Im saying the same Ive said already

Okay, we went to the doctor and they gave me an paper on the same thing as the article I had printed out. The doctor sent us for xrays of his abdomen too just to make sure he didnt have a major blockage that couldnt be passed. I got the results today and everything with the xrays are fine. I am to start him on Miralax this weekend (they wanted to wait until he was out of school for the weekend to make sure he wouldnt have any problems with it). This is a powder that is mixed with whatever drink, its colorless and tasteless. This goes for 2 weeks, with a check up at the doctor next wednesday. I was told that once his colon is cleaned out it will shrink back to normal size in a matter of days and he will get more of a feeling to go to the bathroom. Its important that he does not hold it or he can become constipated again and we would have to start all over at the beginning. (I am assuming we are re-potty training him in a sense) I was also told this is a touch and go situation, but with persistence and patients, both of which I have tons of, it will go well.

I'm so glad things are looking up for you and the little guy. Did they give you a name for what was wrong? Was it megacolon? Please keep us posted on his progress, I'm thinking of him and sending 'good toilet' vibes.

Encopresis..is the same thing as on the link Deb posted. Thank you for the good toilet vibes!!

I am glad the doctor was pro-active this time around. I haven't been to this thread all week, but I was thinking that perhaps the fact that he isn't going at all during school is a contributing factor. He could very well be constipating himself. So nice to hear the doctor agreeing with "my" diagnosis!

I am so glad you got some answers, and can see light at the end of the tunnel.

I have a daycare child who takes Maralax...its powerful stuff!! But it does work when the dosage is right.
Good luck, I hope it all gets better!