Switching my 12 year olds from canned to raw...and need support!

Thank you for the info!  Interesting!  

I sometimes wonder why we make all the fuss we do over diet, when we could just open the back door and say "there's your breakfast, lunch, and dinner! Go get it!"  But it's just not that simple when you want your pets to live with you.  

Update.  I've come to a halt for now on this whole process.  Because I work long hours I don't feel good about leaving raw meat out for such a long time.  Here lately they haven't been eating it all anyway.  (On the plus side, this morning I caught Ned eating the cat grass!!!  YAY!!)  

Plus I have to admit, I was totally grossed out while chopping up the liver.  I found not one, but several GALL BLADDERS FULLY INTACT!!!  Ewwwwww!!!  And what's worse, when I tried to slice it into, it spurted out bile!!!!  GAG!!!  And I'm a nurse so there's not much that grosses me out, but this totally did.  I think the whole thing would have gone much better IF I had one of those meat grinders.  I'm just afraid that I won't use it after I get it, and it ain't cheap!  Money don't grow on trees.  Not for me anyway.  If I worked in a hospital it would be different, but I absolutely hate hospital nursing. 

So now I'm looking at other options like the EZcomplete.  After looking at that and the Alnutrin, I think EZcomplete will work better for me.  I hate that I bought all those supplements though.  I guess I could donate them, but I have no idea where to donate them.  Maybe I could not fully bake the food like Dr. Pierson does?  She half-bakes her meats because she doesn't like the idea of all raw (I guess maybe because some of her cats have low immunity?)  Would this be acceptable?

Update.  I've come to a halt for now on this whole process.  Because I work long hours I don't feel good about leaving raw meat out for such a long time.  Here lately they haven't been eating it all anyway.  (On the plus side, this morning I caught Ned eating the cat grass!!!  YAY!!)  

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You 're right, raw food should not be left out for long.

I had trouble to get my cat to eat raw food from his plate, had to buy a plastic feeding mat and just put food on it, he likes it this way and will not touch raw on the plate still   I also have to feed him in the different room: quite second bedroom instead of the kitchen floor or table, he just really likes to sit on a carpet while eating (lucky for me, he doesn't drag the food on the carpet, but if he did i would just put some old towels on the carpet). He does it the canned food out of his plate while sitting on the kitchen table, no idea what's that about but i just roll with it   

Plus I have to admit, I was totally grossed out while chopping up the liver.  I found not one, but several GALL BLADDERS FULLY INTACT!!!  Ewwwwww!!!  And what's worse, when I tried to slice it into, it spurted out bile!!!!  GAG!!!  And I'm a nurse so there's not much that grosses me out, but this totally did.  I think the whole thing would have gone much better IF I had one of those meat grinders.  I'm just afraid that I won't use it after I get it, and it ain't cheap!  Money don't grow on trees.  Not for me anyway.  If I worked in a hospital it would be different, but I absolutely hate hospital nursing. 

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Wow, yuk! That's unexpected.... Where did you buy the liver?   You would have had to get rid of the gall bladders even with the grinder, since they taste awful and mixing them with food could've ruined the whole batch.

You could always try using freeze dried liver. Here's the thread about it http://www.thecatsite.com/t/247129/feeding-dried-liver-in-place-of-fresh

So now I'm looking at other options like the EZcomplete.  After looking at that and the Alnutrin, I think EZcomplete will work better for me.  I hate that I bought all those supplements though.  I guess I could donate them, but I have no idea where to donate them.  Maybe I could not fully bake the food like Dr. Pierson does?  She half-bakes her meats because she doesn't like the idea of all raw (I guess maybe because some of her cats have low immunity?)  Would this be acceptable?

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If you don't think raw is an option, you could always go with fully cooked meat + supplements (EZ complete can be used with fully cooked meat as well as U-Stew). 

Dr. Pierson explains why she started to partially bake the meat: "However, meat from a grocery store can be higher in bacteria" and "I wanted to be able to leave the food out longer" and "I was tired of calling my butcher to see when the poultry thighs were going to be delivered so that I could source them as fresh as possible.  Now, I just purchase the thighs when it is convenient for me."

Why can't you use the supplements you bought? Any premix you buy is the same thing only already mixed together plus some of them have dried liver powder witch you can substitute by giving your kitties freeze dried liver

KiraTheCat said:

 
You 're right, raw food should not be left out for long.

I had trouble to get my cat to eat raw food from his plate, had to buy a plastic feeding mat and just put food on it, he likes it this way and will not touch raw on the plate still 

 I also have to feed him in the different room: quite second bedroom instead of the kitchen floor or table, he just really likes to sit on a carpet while eating (lucky for me, he doesn't drag the food on the carpet, but if he did i would just put some old towels on the carpet). He does it the canned food out of his plate while sitting on the kitchen table, no idea what's that about but i just roll with it 

 

Wow, yuk! That's unexpected.... Where did you buy the liver?   You would have had to get rid of the gall bladders even with the grinder, since they taste awful and mixing them with food could've ruined the whole batch.

You could always try using freeze dried liver. Here's the thread about it http://www.thecatsite.com/t/247129/feeding-dried-liver-in-place-of-fresh

If you don't think raw is an option, you could always go with fully cooked meat + supplements (EZ complete can be used with fully cooked meat as well as U-Stew). 

Dr. Pierson explains why she started to partially bake the meat: "However, meat from a grocery store can be higher in bacteria" and "I wanted to be able to leave the food out longer" and "I was tired of calling my butcher to see when the poultry thighs were going to be delivered so that I could source them as fresh as possible.  Now, I just purchase the thighs when it is convenient for me."

Why can't you use the supplements you bought? Any premix you buy is the same thing only already mixed together plus some of them have dried liver powder witch you can substitute by giving your kitties freeze dried liver

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I bought the liver at a local grocery store, not a national chain.  They also sell chicken feet.  I left the gall bladders in the recipe because I figured they eat that anyway when they eat whole prey.  Oh dear, I hope I didn't make things worse for them!  I literally did a back step when I saw those green things!  Yack!!  The kitties did try the recipe anyway though.  I think freeze-dried liver sounds like a much better option!  But I wonder about the potency and nutritional value of these powders.  Don't cat food companies use the same things?

I can't use the supplements I bought if I'm going to use EZ complete because it already has everything added.  The supplements were really the easiest part though so I guess I could still use them when I try another batch after I get that meat grinder.  I guess I would prefer it to be even easier, but then why waste all that I bought already if I can't find anyone to donate it to?  The hardest part was chopping up the raw chicken, that took me the longest time and made me think twice about this whole thing.  And those nasty livers with their gall bladders.  If the chicken is cooked partially, at least it'll be easier to get off the bone.  I can still cook the bones for gelatin, which I did this time too.  It only takes 45 minutes in the pressure cooker and they are done.  

I bought the liver at a local grocery store, not a national chain.  They also sell chicken feet.  I left the gall bladders in the recipe because I figured they eat that anyway when they eat whole prey.  Oh dear, I hope I didn't make things worse for them!  I literally did a back step when I saw those green things!  Yack!!  The kitties did try the recipe anyway though.  I think freeze-dried liver sounds like a much better option!  But I wonder about the potency and nutritional value of these powders.  Don't cat food companies use the same things?

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Hmmm, if the ate it, it's probably ok... I, honestly, don't know 

Oh boy, I just googled the pictures of chicken livers with gall bladders, I might have took a step back as well

I was looking into freeze dried livers when starting out with raw, since I didn't know if I would find it fresh/frozen at a supermarket. I might still buy some, like turkey or lamb just for the sake of variety. I like the variety Stewart Pro-Treat is offering, they've got so many to choose from. And it's just liver, nothing else added and freeze dried meats/organs retain nutrition of the raw. 

Which powders are you talking about? (sorry, I was out for a few hours and my brain has melted from the sun and heat ) Regardless, the difference between what pet food manufactures use vs what you can buy yourself is that you can make sure you are buying something of a good quality, can find out the source of the supplement, country of origin, how it is processed and prepared, while what is put in the can of cat food will likely remain a mystery. At least that's how I see it

I can't use the supplements I bought if I'm going to use EZ complete because it already has everything added.  The supplements were really the easiest part though so I guess I could still use them when I try another batch after I get that meat grinder.  I guess I would prefer it to be even easier, but then why waste all that I bought already if I can't find anyone to donate it to?  The hardest part was chopping up the raw chicken, that took me the longest time and made me think twice about this whole thing.  And those nasty livers with their gall bladders.  If the chicken is cooked partially, at least it'll be easier to get off the bone.  I can still cook the bones for gelatin, which I did this time too.  It only takes 45 minutes in the pressure cooker and they are done.  

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Yes, i meant use the supplements you have instead of buying EZ complete until you run out of them Then order whichever supplement premix suits your needs.  

It does take a lot of time to cut chicken into cat food, especially if you are making really small chunks. Did you use a knife or scissors? I find scissors to be much easier to use. Watching something on tv or listening to an audiobook really helps me pass that time and not go crazy 

If you want to do Dr. Pierson's recipe and partially cook the chicken, I don't see a reason why you shouldn't. She's been feeding her cats this way for years. Or look through the threads on the forum about home-made cooked food. I'm sure you'll figure out the best way that works for you and your kitties.

KiraTheCat said:

 
Hmmm, if the ate it, it's probably ok... I, honestly, don't know 

Oh boy, I just googled the pictures of chicken livers with gall bladders, I might have took a step back as well

I was looking into freeze dried livers when starting out with raw, since I didn't know if I would find it fresh/frozen at a supermarket. I might still buy some, like turkey or lamb just for the sake of variety. I like the variety Stewart Pro-Treat is offering, they've got so many to choose from. And it's just liver, nothing else added and freeze dried meats/organs retain nutrition of the raw. 

Which powders are you talking about? (sorry, I was out for a few hours and my brain has melted from the sun and heat

) Regardless, the difference between what pet food manufactures use vs what you can buy yourself is that you can make sure you are buying something of a good quality, can find out the source of the supplement, country of origin, how it is processed and prepared, while what is put in the can of cat food will likely remain a mystery. At least that's how I see it

Yes, i meant use the supplements you have instead of buying EZ complete until you run out of them Then order whichever supplement premix suits your needs.  

It does take a lot of time to cut chicken into cat food, especially if you are making really small chunks. Did you use a knife or scissors? I find scissors to be much easier to use. Watching something on tv or listening to an audiobook really helps me pass that time and not go crazy 

If you want to do Dr. Pierson's recipe and partially cook the chicken, I don't see a reason why you shouldn't. She's been feeding her cats this way for years. Or look through the threads on the forum about home-made cooked food. I'm sure you'll figure out the best way that works for you and your kitties.

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Yeah those gall bladders were something else.  Lol, I think I kinda said "ewww!" as I stepped back too!  And they are so green!  I was talking about all the vitamins and supplements and bone meal.  It's all powder.  Even the vitamin E is dry, well the salmon oil isn't.  I just wonder if it's as good a quality as I can get.  

I used a knife to cut the chicken.  If you could call it a knife.  I need a really sharp knife, and a cleaver or whatever it's called.  If I had a grinder I wouldn't have to cut it up too much.  I could get some scissors, so yes that's a good tip.  

My question about the EZcomplete is: would I have to fully cook the meat or just partially cook it?  

Yeah those gall bladders were something else.  Lol, I think I kinda said "ewww!" as I stepped back too!  And they are so green!  I was talking about all the vitamins and supplements and bone meal.  It's all powder.  Even the vitamin E is dry, well the salmon oil isn't.  I just wonder if it's as good a quality as I can get.  

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That's why I'm hoping to switch to PMR eventually and so there would be very little need to supplement. Anyways, human grade supplements you have are very likely much better than what pet food companies are using. I like Alnutrin, cause they are very transparent about where they are sourcing there ingredients. 

I used a knife to cut the chicken.  If you could call it a knife.  I need a really sharp knife, and a cleaver or whatever it's called.  If I had a grinder I wouldn't have to cut it up too much.  I could get some scissors, so yes that's a good tip.  

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If you decide to do another batch before buying a grinder, do try regular kitchen scissors, SO much easier. 

My question about the EZcomplete is: would I have to fully cook the meat or just partially cook it?  

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No bones here, including while cooking, they are very specific about it on there website. Other than that, I think you could use partially cooked meat, no problems. But to be 100% sure, write them and ask 

Ginny said:

My question about the EZcomplete is: would I have to fully cook the meat or just partially cook it?  

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You can use EZ for cooked or raw, or partially cooked if you want, but EZ Is only to be used with boneless meats based on the raw weight, so you wouldn't be able to buy bone-in meat and then remove the bone after cooking. 

missmimz said:

 
You can use EZ for cooked or raw, or partially cooked if you want, but EZ Is only to be used with boneless meats based on the raw weight, so you wouldn't be able to buy bone-in meat and then remove the bone after cooking. 

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Gosh, so many choices: cooked, partially cooked, raw...  I honestly think I'm more of a lazy feeder because I've been a can opener for years now.  So maybe it's a better option to go with EZ and just get raw ground meat and partially cook it.  Maybe that'll deal with the bacteria in the meat sufficiently yet retain some of the benefits of raw?   I really can't see myself using a meat grinder and wouldn't want to spend that much money on something that just sits in my kitchen taking up space.  I have enough stuff sitting around that I never use.  I know you have a grinder.  That Tasin grinder look pretty heavy duty.  It looks like it was made to grind bones even though I read it's not.  Is there no way around getting a grinder?  Or any other option than just getting already ground meat at the grocery store?  (Other than ordering from Hare Today - my kitties said "meh" to NVI's rabbit so I really don't want to order a bunch of meat they won't eat.)

You can chop whole cuts of meat yourself at home. It doesn't have to be super fine, small chunks that easily fit into a cat's mouth are fine and will also give a cat's jaw a workout. You can also use a food processor to sort of grind frozen or partially frozen meat. You can search Google for how to do this.

Independent pet stores often sell chubs of raw meat for pet food use. The meat is already ground so it's ready to use. I buy chubs of raw meat from the pet store. Just buy the correct meat for the pre-mix you are using. Chubs come as boneless organ less and with bone and organs. EZComplete requires boneless meat.

We only have Petsmart and Petco here.  I think there is an independent pet store or two in the neighboring counties.  I'll have to look.  Is their raw meat any cleaner than grocery store bought ground meat?  

I've got a Vitamix on order but I'm afraid to use that to grind meat because of what missmimz said.  I sure don't want to ruin a $500 machine the way I did my trusty $19 one.  

The independent pet store sells commercial chubs of raw meat for pet food, not ther own product. The brands I buy are HT (yes, HT), Blue Ridge, and occasionally Bravo. Primal Pet has chubs too but I don't think I've ever tried that. I trust the brands I buy to be safe for my pets to eat.

You can look for a used food processor at yard sales, Craigslist, FreeCycle, etc. That way if it breaks you're not out a lot of money. Here's a video from America's Test Kitchen how to grind meat in a food processor:

LTS3 said:

 
The independent pet store sells commercial chubs of raw meat for pet food, not ther own product. The brands I buy are HT (yes, HT), Blue Ridge, and occasionally Bravo. Primal Pet has chubs too but I don't think I've ever tried that. I trust the brands I buy to be safe for my pets to eat.

You can look for a used food processor at yard sales, Craigslist, FreeCycle, etc. That way if it breaks you're not out a lot of money. Here's a video from America's Test Kitchen how to grind meat in a food processor:

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Just being nosy plus I want to know too, how much does the raw meat cost?  About the same as what you get in the grocery or much more?  What is the difference?  Btw I got a food processor but not an expensive one, after my blender quit on me (it never has forgiven me - it still won't even start!) This new one is about $30 something.  Thanks for the info and that video was very helpful.  I would never have thought about putting the chopped meat in the freezer to firm up before grinding.  

Supermarket ground meat is just that, ground up meat with nothing else. Some chubs of meat from the pet store are ground meat with ground up bones and organs included. Others are just ground up meat. If you are using a pre-mix, it's important to use the correct type of meat so that your cat isn't getting too much bone and vitamins. Some pre-mixes, such as EZComplete, already contain calcium and essential vitamins and minerals so ony boneless meat is used.

Chubs vary in cost depending on brand and size. I recently bought a 2 lb chub of HT rabbit with bone and organ for $16.99, a 1 lb chub of HT llama with bone and organ for $9.99, and two 2 lb chubs of HT vension with bone and organ for $9.99 each. I have a list of prices for chubs at the local pet store:

HT boneless chicken, 1lb $6.99

HT ground chicken, 2 lb $10.99

HT ground duck, 2 lb $9.99

HT ground turkey, 2 lb $10.99

HT ground goat, 2 lb $15.99

Blue Ridge ground quail grind, 2 lb $3.99

Blue Ridge ground turkey grind, 2 lb $5.99

Blue Ridge ground duck grind, 2 lb $13.99

Bravo turkey grind, 2 lb $18.99

Bravo boneless bison, 2 lb $22.99

Bravo rabbit grind, 2 lb $21.99

Primal turkey grind, 2 lb $7.99

I should note that I am not aware of any other store in the US that sells HT products. There is no mention of HT being sold in stores on the HT web site. I don't know why my local pet store sells HT. I've been meaning to ask the owner but lately she's been super busy each time I had gone to the store to buy more NV.

Buying whole cuts of meat from the supermarket or butcher shop and chopping / grinding it yourself will probably cost less than a chub from the pet store. Just be sure to read the label or ask the butcher if the meat has been enchanced with broth or flavorings or anything at all. Some packaged meats are and the teeny tiny print on the label will usually say what the meat has been enhanced / injected with.

Thanks I will check out those brands. Who knows? Maybe I'll find some of them here. Can I give them ground beef every now and then? Nat begs me when I eat hamburger. He will get up from a nap to beg, lol.

Ground beef from the supermarket? A very small amount as a treat would be ok. Or if you're having steak for dinner, cut off a small piece (raw) and give it to the cat.