Question about feral cats abandoning their kittens..

What should out next step be?

So, a feral cat gave birth to her kittens underneath our house. They weren't on the ground; she had them in the insulation under the house. Had clawed out a little hole and everything so that she could jump into it and take care of her kittens. We didn't know about this until this morning, when my dog went outside. Apparently, she'd reached up into the hole and pulled out two kittens to "play" with them. At first, we thought that she'd killed them, but when I crawled in to pull them out, I found out that they were breathing. No blood. No signs of injury. They were quiet. But as I pulled them out from underneath the house, a cat that was obviously their mother ran off in fear. We decided to take these two kittens to the vet to make absolute sure that my dog didn't hurt them. But I want to make sure that we're doing the right thing. I realize that we actually could have done the WRONG thing, but we were so worried that our dog had hurt these kittens that we just weren't thinking properly.

So just to recap, plus a few extra details:

1. These kittens were separated from the rest of the litter, because my dog had dragged them out onto the ground. She had her mouth on them and everything. They were covered in her saliva, but there was no blood -- and it seems as if they're not in any pain (thank goodness).

2. The mother cat was still with them, but ran off after I pulled out the two kittens that we assumed were in danger. The kittens were taken care of, aren't skinny, and aside from my dog's saliva and the insulation foam, they were fairly clean. We don't know if there are any other kittens in the litter but I'm thinking that it's really likely.

3. The kittens are about 7 ounces. Open eyes, open ears, shakily crawling around. Almost to the point where they can stand, but definitely can't walk. We're assuming they're a little bit older than one week, not quite two weeks.

4. We tried to feed them, but they mostly want to sleep. We figure they're just not hungry, and kitten formula isn't nearly as good as mother's milk, I imagine.

5. They aren't crying at all. Very content just sleeping in the towels we've got for them. For the most part I leave them alone but I also cuddle with them for a few minutes before leaving them be.

6. They pee when stimulated.

I'm worried we separated them from their mother when we should have, but I'm also worried that the mother would have rejected them anyway after what my dog did. Should we return the kittens tonight? Or would it be safer for us to keep them, after they've been totally separated and my dog dragged them out? And should we keep an eye on the nesting area to make sure the mother is still coming back to the remaining kittens, if there are any? Thanks for your help, everyone!

C commanderscott

This is a tough one. At 7 ounces they are probably close to 2 weeks old.

You should definitely check for more kittens.

Do you have a drop trap to set to catch mom?

I think the kittens have a better chance of long-term survival with you, but I do not think mom would reject them if she could be with them again. Her instincts are to care for them at this point.

Ideally, you could trap mom (if there are no more kittens) and bring her in with her babies for now.

Regardless, the kittens will not likely take a bottle as they were accustomed to their mother.

You will need to feed them formula with a small, needleless syringe. At 7 ounces, they each need a minimum of 56 ounces in a 24-hour period. This would be 7 mLs each every 3 hours AROUND THE CLOCK.

The other thing you could do is put them in a large crate and set it in a safe place outside with food and water for mom, and let her return to care for her kittens. She will surely be looking for them by this evening!

They really need to be fed though if they have not eaten since you rescued them this morning.

Please update with what happens.

commanderscott said:

 
So, a feral cat gave birth to her kittens underneath our house. They weren't on the ground; she had them in the insulation under the house. Had clawed out a little hole and everything so that she could jump into it and take care of her kittens. We didn't know about this until this morning, when my dog went outside. Apparently, she'd reached up into the hole and pulled out two kittens to "play" with them. At first, we thought that she'd killed them, but when I crawled in to pull them out, I found out that they were breathing. No blood. No signs of injury. They were quiet. But as I pulled them out from underneath the house, a cat that was obviously their mother ran off in fear. We decided to take these two kittens to the vet to make absolute sure that my dog didn't hurt them. But I want to make sure that we're doing the right thing. I realize that we actually could have done the WRONG thing, but we were so worried that our dog had hurt these kittens that we just weren't thinking properly.

So just to recap, plus a few extra details:

1. These kittens were separated from the rest of the litter, because my dog had dragged them out onto the ground. She had her mouth on them and everything. They were covered in her saliva, but there was no blood -- and it seems as if they're not in any pain (thank goodness).

2. The mother cat was still with them, but ran off after I pulled out the two kittens that we assumed were in danger. The kittens were taken care of, aren't skinny, and aside from my dog's saliva and the insulation foam, they were fairly clean. We don't know if there are any other kittens in the litter but I'm thinking that it's really likely.

3. The kittens are about 7 ounces. Open eyes, open ears, shakily crawling around. Almost to the point where they can stand, but definitely can't walk. We're assuming they're a little bit older than one week, not quite two weeks.

4. We tried to feed them, but they mostly want to sleep. We figure they're just not hungry, and kitten formula isn't nearly as good as mother's milk, I imagine.

5. They aren't crying at all. Very content just sleeping in the towels we've got for them. For the most part I leave them alone but I also cuddle with them for a few minutes before leaving them be.

6. They pee when stimulated.

I'm worried we separated them from their mother when we should have, but I'm also worried that the mother would have rejected them anyway after what my dog did. Should we return the kittens tonight? Or would it be safer for us to keep them, after they've been totally separated and my dog dragged them out? And should we keep an eye on the nesting area to make sure the mother is still coming back to the remaining kittens, if there are any? Thanks for your help, everyone!

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I agree with SArthur.  You CAN almost surely return them to momma.  I presume you have dried off with a damp towel the worst salivia?

Moms very seldom abandon kittens - unless in really dire need,  And if so, They almost always return if they can.

or the kittens clearly dying... -  but this too is really a survival strategy for the other kittens.

Kittens whom had momma have often difficulty to take bottle.  A syringe is easier in these cases.

Another option is you keep these two kittens, and either make many tries with the bottle (a make-up sponge may be easier fro them to suckle from) - or use such a needleless syringe.  Some forumites manages to put a such prolongens nipples on the syringe, and sometimes its easier for the kittens.

Using syringe: tummy down, head up, in the corner of the mouth, dropwise so you are sure they swallow.  If they swallow good it can go fairly quickly.

56 ml a day, roughly 7ml every three hours, as said.

Goats milk is an alternative to kmr.

The optimal is if you take fostering of them all...  I presume you can go under your house and fetch the kittens?

HOW exactly to arrange getting momma inside is a question of course,  but as a rule of thumb; once inside, and once momma understands nobody is mean, and there is no real threat to her nor the kittens - and even - this is the best practical chance for the kittens - she will cooperate - shy or not.   As long you are respectful she will allow you to handle them.

Its not sure you will manage to foster her - but its no doubt you will manage to foster the kittens...

Its one of the big, and nice miracles of rescuing..

ONE thing more: the dog playing with them made probably their adrenalie went sky high, and thus, used their blood sugar.   So is with humans after some difficult situation, no?  Say an interview for work...

And it may be in part why they want to sleep, although they should be hungry...  I suspect they have low blood sugar as now, and are more or less lethargic because of this.

So, be sure they are warm enough (or if its hot at your place - not too warm)

and smear some glucose sugar on their lips and gum.  The easiest way is to smear some thick honey water!

This gives them quick energy, as glucose sugar goes into blood already in the mouth and the lips...  It doesnt need to be digested.

You can also give them some massage, preferably with a tooth brush, but you can rub them softly with a little towel...  Momma would wash them with her tongue, its a sort of natural massage...  feels also very reassuring.

We got them to the vet. They're at a good temperature. 6.5 ounces. About two weeks, but no older. We managed to feed the girl 3 mL of powdered formula but the boy, despite trying to nurse on me, wouldn't take it. Kept moving his head. We got canned KMR because we have much more luck with that. They're sleeping now so I'll feed them again in about an hour in case they want more.

We're going to call someone up in our town to see if they can find the mother and the other kittens -- assuming she didnt move them by now. I'm afraid if we tried to catch her, we would fail.

Thanks for the help, guys. I really appreciate it. I'll post updates. They're healthy so I'm pretty sure they'll be okay.

commanderscott said:

We got them to the vet. They're at a good temperature. 6.5 ounces. About two weeks, but no older. We managed to feed the girl 3 mL of powdered formula but the boy, despite trying to nurse on me, wouldn't take it. Kept moving his head. We got canned KMR because we have much more luck with that. They're sleeping now so I'll feed them again in about an hour in case they want more.

We're going to call someone up in our town to see if they can find the mother and the other kittens -- assuming she didnt move them by now. I'm afraid if we tried to catch her, we would fail.

Thanks for the help, guys. I really appreciate it. I'll post updates. They're healthy so I'm pretty sure they'll be okay.

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OK, sounds good - so whatever happens, these two should have their future safe.

And yes, the momma may move the remaining kittens, possibly have alredy done that.   If so, you probably cant do much, unless you are here usual food source, and she takes the new place nearby.

Just be sure she didnt fled and leaved the rest alone.  Not probable, but we cant rule out..

..

BUT if you  arent her main food source, and she finds food somewhere else, she may be away from the litter even several hours... So them being alone is no sure proof...

Of course, with such situations, not all kittens make it.  Its part of why the surviving kittens whom reach adulthood are more tough than average...

You've got to get more food into both kittens, even if they refuse. They will not do well for long without proper food.

You may need to wrap the one kitten in a towel like a burrito to hold him still enough to get the syringe in his mouth. He's hungry, he just wants his mom. But he has to eat or he will go downhill fast.

Like I said, you can always watch to see if mom returns tonight. I imagine she will come looking for her kittens.

We're going to get more food into them. I'm about to go in and feed them again in about fifteen minutes. None of the kittens we've bottle fed have liked the powdered formula. They MUCH prefer the canned stuff. So I'm anticipating more success with that. We're going to try the bottle again, but if that doesn't work, we may have to force feed them. I have a question, though: When do I STOP force feeding them? I know the signs of aspiration, and I know to burp them and stimulate them after. That's not an issue. But I'm always afraid that if a kitten doesn't have an appetite, I'm going to be doing more harm than good. Do I force the full amount into them, or do I stop once they very adamantly reject it? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!

::EDIT:: We're also keeping an eye out for Momma and any other kittens. It's a very tricky and unsafe place she's set the kittens up in, so unless they're crying for hours on end, I won't be going to retrieve them. We live in the country. Snakes and scorpions are a huge possibility there, and I was risking a lot just getting these two. I had to crawl almost entirely underneath the house.

C commanderscott

Force feeding still means going a couple of drops at a time with a syringe, and allowing time to swallow. I guarantee they are hungry. Refusing to eat right now just means they prefer mom rather than an unfamiliar apparatus.

Since they've barely eaten today, you may want to try feeding them small amounts (2-3 mLs) hourly, until they get the hang of either the bottle or syringe. Once they realize it's the good stuff, they will start suckling more willingly.

Get as much into them as you can, but do not squirt it down their throats, or they will aspirate. Count on a very slow process to start, which is why I suggest less but more often.

If their pee looks yellow, they are dehydrated, which is not good at all.

Somebody needs to check for more kittens though.

The bottle isn't that great. I can tell they WANT the bottle, but they aren't getting anything from it. The nipples are fine. The bottle has it so that you have to squeeze to get the formula out and I don't want to get too much out by accident. So I've been giving them formula in the syringe. They don't like it, though. The boy ate about 4 mL, the girl another 3 mL. He nearly passed out by the time he was done, and he wouldn't stop purring. Their urine is clear. I'll just go in and feed them every hour, like you suggested. I'll also go and check for more kittens in a bit. Once someone is able to get out there with me in case something goes wrong, I'll head on out there with a flashlight and get as good of a look as I possibly can. If I find any, I'm going to leave them be and see if Momma comes back to them. I don't want to separate any remaining kittens from their mother unless they've been abandoned. And if Momma cat IS returning to the same site, I'll be able to call a cat rescue who has experience trapping feral cats, so that way they can get her and her kittens and spay Momma. Then everyone's got a safe place to be -- and an opportunity for finding a forever home. If there are remaining kittens and they aren't being cared for, we'll take them in and care for them unless circumstances call for them to be placed in a rescue.

Thanks again for the help!

::EDIT:: Either they were the only ones in the litter, or Momma moved the other kittens.

It all sounds good!

You may want to buy a different bottle, or even try putting a nipple on the end of the syringe at some point.

Is the nipple hole big enough?

Either way, the 4 and 3 mLs were good progress, and if they can do that again in an hour, you're doing well!

Keep us posted on the kittens, and post a picture when you can! [emoji]128522[/emoji]

The nipple hole is big enough. When I run water into it, it drips out at a steady pace. But when I put it in the bottle, it won't come out. I'll feed them 3-4 mL every hour for the next few hours, then see if they'll take 7 mL every three hours, as suggested. That way at least I can get a little bit of sleep tonight, since it takes an hour to feed them as well. Come Monday, once I get some money, we're also going to get a kitchen scale to monitor their weight before and after every meal. I understand that gaining an ounce every week is ideal; is that correct?

These are adorable kittens. Lucille is absolutely lovely. Not fussy in the least bit and is content just about anywhere, and Hercules (named so because he is S T R O N G and loves climbing) loves to purr and crawl around. They love cuddling with each other. We're already very attached. Should I get them a teddy bear, as well? I read somewhere that nursing kittens may feel better if they have a stuffed animal, since the fuzziness reminds them of Mom or something along those lines. I'll get a good picture once they're eating again.

Yes, a soft plush toy is awesome. In the meantime, you can make a hot water bottle, roll it inside a towel, and put it in their nest for them to cuddle.

They need to gain 6-10 grams, or 1/2 ounce, per day. Can you borrow a kitchen scale from someone in the meantime? It's the only way to know if they are eating enough and gaining.

Keep a log of how much they eat at what time, so you can make sure they get the full amount they need each 24 hours. As they grow, that amount increases. They can eat more than that if they want, but not less.

I feel sorry for their mom, suddenly bereft of her kittens and with nipples full of milk. Can you put food out for her to see if she will show up?

I'll put some food out there where she was, definitely. That way if she shows up again she knows that someone's thinking of her. And I'll see if one of my friends has a kitchen scale. We have a scale at my mother's office, too, for weighing mail. If we can manage to sneak the kittens in there, we might be able to use it over the weekend.

Here's a picture of them. The top is Hercules. Bottom is Lucille. I had to hold him still. She was easy. She passed right out the moment she hit the floor.

They are just precious! [emoji]128149[/emoji]

I was hoping that maybe if you feed mom and she keeps coming around, you might be able to lure her inside by showing her the kittens. Just a thought.

Have they eaten more yet?

I fed them 3 mL each right when I posted that picture. I'm going to wait another hour before I feed them again -- this time 6 mL. My vet says to feed them 4 times a day, but that would mean that they'd need 13 mL each feeding time and they wouldn't like that much at all. So I'm just going to go with the advice I got on here and feed them smaller portions every few hours.

They are much too young to only eat 4 times a day. Even when weaning they need to eat small amounts of wet food 6 times a day, and have 24/7 access to dry kitten chow.

And at this point you are trying to get them adjusted to new food and a new way of eating it.

I'm glad you will be increasing the amount at the next feeding. They need it. I hope they take it well. [emoji]128077[/emoji]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. The younger a kitten is, the faster their metabolism is, I'd assume. Sort of like little humans. Also, other than aspiration and weight gain, what are the warning signs that you're feeding a kitten too much? I keep trying to search for these answers but either I'm not searching for the right things or there's no information out there for kittens this young. I think I'd be more confident in feeding them larger amounts if I could tell immediately when I needed to give them a break from feeding.

Can't tell you how much I appreciate the help. It's been YEARS since we've taken care of kittens this young. Even Commander Shepard, our 3 month old kitten, came to us at around 4 weeks. (She's going to enjoy the playmates once they're old enough.) They're going to be spoiled rotten but we've got to get them old enough first.

::EDIT:: Lucille and Hercules are both eating willingly, now, and they love the food. Since I was feeding them every hour, I just fed Lucille 5 mL and Hercules 4 mL (he started to push away very adamantly after that) and now I will start feeding them 7 mL every 3 hours as first suggested. Thanks again!

Lucille, being whitish, may really be a point. IF so, you will see it soon, she is in the age when the pointed parts of the body should begin to darken up.

Im glad they become more used to taking feedings.  It usually happens, but still - a critical moment, and taking also a lot of energy out of the caretaker...

As alterenative to stuffed animal, fleece is good. It feels almost as mommas fur.  Stuffed animal most important with one alone kitten, but doesnt hurt with two either... 

You can brush them with a tooth-brush, feels like mommas licking.  Its not necessary here, but may be nice for them.

I had a point before. She was the SWEETEST cat, but she had separation anxiety. They're beautiful kittens and I really hope Lucille is one, too. Her rear end is a little bit gray, but that may be because of "flea dust." I'm going to take a flea comb to them tomorrow. Hercules also has these beautiful tiger prints. I know coat pattern changes with age but hopefully his sticks around. He's really a gorgeous kitty with a fluffy, fat face.

And yeah. It takes about 45 minutes to an hour to feed them both. But when I woke them up to feed them this time around, they were both very hungry after 3 hours of not eating. It took a little bit of fighting and tons of squirming but they got 6 mL down each before they started to push away. 3 mL, then a break to feed the other. 2 more mL, then a break to feed the other. Finally 1 mL each, followed my stimulation. They're peeing lots, but so far I haven't seen any poop. We're getting a scale tomorrow, though, so I'll be able to monitor their weight and call the vet if I see any issues. They're also getting curious and starting to explore a little bit. I let them walk around the bathroom while their sibling gets fed. Lucille, who mostly sleeps, is staring to crawl a bit more. Hercules is very invested in exploring and climbing. And while I was worried about him and his lack of appetite, he has a very large one now. I think they're going to be okay.

I'd get them fleece but it really makes my skin crawl, sadly. Can't touch it. I wouldn't be able to get them out to feed them. We've got PLENTY of stuffed animals, though. Also got their crate on a heating pad. (I had it for my hermit crabs, but seeing as it's summer, they don't need it, and it works fine for the kittens.) Been brushing and petting them, and they respond well to that. Pretty sure they're convinced I'm Momma now. I'm enamored with these kitties and I can't wait until they're old enough to play with Shepard.

Sorry. Gushing now. I've always been a dog person. It's nice to have cats around more frequently. You all understand.

We do understand! [emoji]128571[/emoji]

I am delighted they are eating so much better now! They may take a bottle for you soon, which will speed things up a bit. You can try the one you have again. If they are now suckling willingly, the milk should come out.

Once they are eating the required amount, you should begin to see some poop.

Glad too that you are getting a scale to gauge their weight. The rule of thumb is 8mLs for every ounce of weight, divided by the number of feeds in 24 hours.

Any sign of the mom cat? [emoji]128522[/emoji]