Question about feral cats abandoning their kittens..

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commanderscott

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My grandmother thinks she saw her last night, and called out to her. (Which is odd. My grandmother says she hates cats but I think she's trying to get Momma inside?)

We won't be able to get a scale until Monday, sadly, but my mom's office has a scale that measures in ounces (for the mail) so we're going to take them there. They've got a fridge and microwave, too, so I can keep their regular feeding schedule. I'll just bring the heating pad with them so that they stay nice and warm. If they weighed 6.5 ounces yesterday, what would be the ideal weight for them today?

I accidentally skipped a feeding. I had my alarm set for 5 AM, but either it never went off or I slept right through it. Any idea what I can do to compensate for the loss of nutrients without stressing the kitties out? I was thinking a couple extra feedings of 2 mL throughout the day until they made up for lost time, but I'd rather wait to see if that's a good idea before I do it. I woke up at around 8 AM and fed the kitties, though. Hercules ate 7 mL and Lucille had about 6. I read that when bubbles form around their mouths (not their nose; been keeping a very close eye on that and I feed them very slowly) they really don't want any more so I don't feed them much past that point. They're not quite 7 ounces anyway so I figure a little bit less is okay? They're peeing LOTS. Not too yellow, either. They're also looking very fluffy and healthy. Lucille's looking a bit cleaner and Hercules has very bright eyes. He's also starting to groom himself. Lucille is also starting to purr around feeding time. There's some improvements for them.

Is it normal for them to cry (read: scream) when stimulated? I get a wet cotton swab, like a Q-tip, and hold them over the sink so that they don't make a mess, but they squirm and cry. Is that normal or should I be trying something else?
 

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I think your plan to feed them a bit extra throughout the day is a good one. For stimulating them, I suspect that a q tip is much too hard. Try a cotton ball or a wash cloth. They may still complain, but it should be better. Also make sure whatever you're using is warm.
 

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I would just continue feeding on their regular schedule today, and set two clocks for that early morning feed for tomorrow, so you don't miss it again.

When stimulating, use a warm, damp cotton ball or cotton pad, and rub VERY gently and slowly. If they are screaming, it is probably too much pressure or friction

When feeding, give them a break and burp them, then see if they want more. They would ideally have gained 6-10 grams or about 1/2 ounce per day, though I doubt they have yet, because they weren't eating enough.

I would wait to weigh them at home Monday. The risk of taking them out is that they will pick up germs and get a URI. They have almost no immune system right now.
 
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All right. I'll go ahead and switch to a cotton pad and see if that helps. If not, is toilet paper gentle enough? Or unscented baby wipes? Our wash clothes are very rough and might irritate them.

I give them about a 5 minute break every 2-3 mL, but I'll burp them after each time instead of after the meal.

I'll also weigh them on Monday. I'm going to see if someone has a scale that we can borrow (the plans keep changing last minute on me, so no idea what's going on at this point) but if not I'll just keep a close eye on their appetite and make sure it doesn't change. I'll feed them until I see the bubbles, burp, wait for five minutes, then try again.
 

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Sounds good. Use a cotton pad. Do not use baby wipes. They contain alcohol.
 
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All righty! Thanks for the heads up. I'll let you guys know how it goes once I feed them again.
 
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Okay, so prepare for a long post, because I need more help with this. I've got a moral dilemma. First an update on Hercules and Lucille:

1. Lucille doesn't know what to do with the bottle. Hercules wants it, but he's still not getting any formula from it. The hole is big enough, but I guess he's just not sucking very well. I use a 1 mL syringe for accuracy and they seem to really like that, though.

2. Burping between their turns did the trick. They both ate 7 mL and Hercules is getting an insanely big appetite.

3. They still cry really loudly with the cotton ball. I run it under warm water every 15 seconds to make sure it doesn't get cold. I guess they're just like regular toddlers and hate being told when to potty.

So here's my moral dilemma. We're looking for Momma and the rest of the litter. I put some food out there (high-quality kitten food I feed Shepard, in hopes it'll give her some good nutrients to pass on to the babies) but I have no clue if we'll ever be able to catch her. And if we do, I have no clue if we'll be able to get her litter. When/if we're able to, my grandmother wants to send them all off to a shelter. Here's my problem.

Momma's been away from Hercules and Lucille for a whole day now. They don't smell like her at all. They smell like formula and a human she's never met. I'm worried she'd reject them. I'd need to monitor them for at least a few days to make sure that Momma's feeding them. On top of that, I can devote more time and care to Momma and her babies than any shelter can. I understand that shelters are very good at what they do, but I'm a stay-at-home student (online classes) and unemployed otherwise. I get money from VA benefits (thanks, Dad!) and that's my income. Additionally, my mother always raised me to believe that if we can do it ourselves, especially for an animal, then that's the best course of action. No shelter is going to be able to have around-the-clock attention to an entire litter of kittens PLUS feral Momma while they're already overcrowded and overworked. I, however, can. Plus, I'd be able to treat Momma and babies for fleas and worms, and get Momma spayed. I'd work hard to find them homes -- and I've got lots of friends who do want kittens.

This is the other side of that problem: I live in a three-bedroom, two-bathroom house. We have seven dogs (all rescues except for one) and five cats (including Hercules and Lucille). There are four people living in this house. We don't have a lot of space. My grandmother KNOWS that we're not going to give up Lucille or Hercules, so she's trying to say that if we get Momma and the other kittens, there will be no problem taking them to a shelter. That's her logic. We rescue animals all the time, to the point where my mother is contemplating starting up an animal rescue of her own. My grandmother sees this as an addiction, like hoarding. We're not hoarders. We're just people who love animals and who actively take care of them.

I feel like their chances of survival are better in a home, not in a shelter. But my grandmother is extremely neurotic and will make life miserable for everyone if we do what my mother and I both believe to be the right thing. She's not a cold-hearted woman, but she genuinely believes that my mother's soft heart, which she passed onto me, is a BAD thing. At this point, is it? If we caught Momma and the rest of the litter (big if, actually, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared) then what should we do? What would be the right thing to do, and what would be the proper balance between right and practical?

Also, if anyone can tell me how to get started on making an actual animal rescue, or point me in the right direction to start my own research, we'd greatly appreciate it. Our neighborhood isn't HUGE, but it's got a TON of stray and feral animals. As I said, we're huge softies for animals. Having the resources and ability to spay/neuter animals and make sure stray kittens are being taken care of would be a dream come true for my mom.
 

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My grandmother thinks she saw her last night, and called out to her. (Which is odd. My grandmother says she hates cats but I think she's trying to get Momma inside?)

We won't be able to get a scale until Monday, sadly, but my mom's office has a scale that measures in ounces (for the mail) so we're going to take them there. They've got a fridge and microwave, too, so I can keep their regular feeding schedule. I'll just bring the heating pad with them so that they stay nice and warm. If they weighed 6.5 ounces yesterday, what would be the ideal weight for them today?

I accidentally skipped a feeding. I had my alarm set for 5 AM, but either it never went off or I slept right through it. Any idea what I can do to compensate for the loss of nutrients without stressing the kitties out? I was thinking a couple extra feedings of 2 mL throughout the day until they made up for lost time, but I'd rather wait to see if that's a good idea before I do it. I woke up at around 8 AM and fed the kitties, though. Hercules ate 7 mL and Lucille had about 6. I read that when bubbles form around their mouths (not their nose; been keeping a very close eye on that and I feed them very slowly) they really don't want any more so I don't feed them much past that point. They're not quite 7 ounces anyway so I figure a little bit less is okay? They're peeing LOTS. Not too yellow, either. They're also looking very fluffy and healthy. Lucille's looking a bit cleaner and Hercules has very bright eyes. He's also starting to groom himself. Lucille is also starting to purr around feeding time. There's some improvements for them.

Is it normal for them to cry (read: scream) when stimulated? I get a wet cotton swab, like a Q-tip, and hold them over the sink so that they don't make a mess, but they squirm and cry. Is that normal or should I be trying something else?
Observe, be very careful with warming up food in microwawe - its much safer to do in water bath.   IF you use a micro for warming of kmr or goats milk, be sure you shake it thoroughly - its very easy to get different temperatures in a bottle, and thus - great danger for burning them in the mouth and intestines...
 

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Okay, so prepare for a long post, because I need more help with this. I've got a moral dilemma. First an update on Hercules and Lucille:

1. Lucille doesn't know what to do with the bottle. Hercules wants it, but he's still not getting any formula from it. The hole is big enough, but I guess he's just not sucking very well. I use a 1 mL syringe for accuracy and they seem to really like that, though.
2. Burping between their turns did the trick. They both ate 7 mL and Hercules is getting an insanely big appetite.
3. They still cry really loudly with the cotton ball. I run it under warm water every 15 seconds to make sure it doesn't get cold. I guess they're just like regular toddlers and hate being told when to potty.

So here's my moral dilemma. We're looking for Momma and the rest of the litter. I put some food out there (high-quality kitten food I feed Shepard, in hopes it'll give her some good nutrients to pass on to the babies) but I have no clue if we'll ever be able to catch her. And if we do, I have no clue if we'll be able to get her litter. When/if we're able to, my grandmother wants to send them all off to a shelter. Here's my problem.

Momma's been away from Hercules and Lucille for a whole day now. They don't smell like her at all. They smell like formula and a human she's never met. I'm worried she'd reject them. I'd need to monitor them for at least a few days to make sure that Momma's feeding them. On top of that, I can devote more time and care to Momma and her babies than any shelter can. I understand that shelters are very good at what they do, but I'm a stay-at-home student (online classes) and unemployed otherwise. I get money from VA benefits (thanks, Dad!) and that's my income. Additionally, my mother always raised me to believe that if we can do it ourselves, especially for an animal, then that's the best course of action. No shelter is going to be able to have around-the-clock attention to an entire litter of kittens PLUS feral Momma while they're already overcrowded and overworked. I, however, can. Plus, I'd be able to treat Momma and babies for fleas and worms, and get Momma spayed. I'd work hard to find them homes -- and I've got lots of friends who do want kittens.

This is the other side of that problem: I live in a three-bedroom, two-bathroom house. We have seven dogs (all rescues except for one) and five cats (including Hercules and Lucille). There are four people living in this house. We don't have a lot of space. My grandmother KNOWS that we're not going to give up Lucille or Hercules, so she's trying to say that if we get Momma and the other kittens, there will be no problem taking them to a shelter. That's her logic. We rescue animals all the time, to the point where my mother is contemplating starting up an animal rescue of her own. My grandmother sees this as an addiction, like hoarding. We're not hoarders. We're just people who love animals and who actively take care of them.

I feel like their chances of survival are better in a home, not in a shelter. But my grandmother is extremely neurotic and will make life miserable for everyone if we do what my mother and I both believe to be the right thing. She's not a cold-hearted woman, but she genuinely believes that my mother's soft heart, which she passed onto me, is a BAD thing. At this point, is it? If we caught Momma and the rest of the litter (big if, actually, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared) then what should we do? What would be the right thing to do, and what would be the proper balance between right and practical?

Also, if anyone can tell me how to get started on making an actual animal rescue, or point me in the right direction to start my own research, we'd greatly appreciate it. Our neighborhood isn't HUGE, but it's got a TON of stray and feral animals. As I said, we're huge softies for animals. Having the resources and ability to spay/neuter animals and make sure stray kittens are being taken care of would be a dream come true for my mom.
I think the very best thing to do would be to bring mom and any additonal babies inside, if and when you are able to catch them. You are right that they will do much better in a home with individualized care and attention.

Mom and babies will not need full run of the house. They should have one room for privacy and to help mom adjust back to life with her babies. Maybe your grandmother could tolerate this if it was just for two months and contained to one room. Besides, she's outvoted! I wouldn't feel right about keeping these two babies and sending the rest of the family to a shelter...

I think mom will adjust to her babies.

It's wonderful that you want to start a rescue. Perhaps you could start by working with an existing rescue in your area.
 
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StefanZ

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So here's my moral dilemma. We're looking for Momma and the rest of the litter. I put some food out there (high-quality kitten food I feed Shepard, in hopes it'll give her some good nutrients to pass on to the babies) but I have no clue if we'll ever be able to catch her. And if we do, I have no clue if we'll be able to get her litter. When/if we're able to, my grandmother wants to send them all off to a shelter. Here's my problem.

Momma's been away from Hercules and Lucille for a whole day now. They don't smell like her at all. They smell like formula and a human she's never met. I'm worried she'd reject them. I'd need to monitor them for at least a few days to make sure that Momma's feeding them. On top of that, I can devote more time and care to Momma and her babies than any shelter can. I understand that shelters are very good at what they do, but I'm a stay-at-home student (online classes) and unemployed otherwise. I get money from VA benefits (thanks, Dad!) and that's my income. Additionally, my mother always raised me to believe that if we can do it ourselves, especially for an animal, then that's the best course of action. No shelter is going to be able to have around-the-clock attention to an entire litter of kittens PLUS feral Momma while they're already overcrowded and overworked. I, however, can. Plus, I'd be able to treat Momma and babies for fleas and worms, and get Momma spayed. I'd work hard to find them homes -- and I've got lots of friends who do want kittens.

This is the other side of that problem: I live in a three-bedroom, two-bathroom house. We have seven dogs (all rescues except for one) and five cats (including Hercules and Lucille). There are four people living in this house. We don't have a lot of space. My grandmother KNOWS that we're not going to give up Lucille or Hercules, so she's trying to say that if we get Momma and the other kittens, there will be no problem taking them to a shelter. That's her logic. We rescue animals all the time, to the point where my mother is contemplating starting up an animal rescue of her own. My grandmother sees this as an addiction, like hoarding. We're not hoarders. We're just people who love animals and who actively take care of them.

I feel like their chances of survival are better in a home, not in a shelter. But my grandmother is extremely neurotic and will make life miserable for everyone if we do what my mother and I both believe to be the right thing. She's not a cold-hearted woman, but she genuinely believes that my mother's soft heart, which she passed onto me, is a BAD thing. At this point, is it? If we caught Momma and the rest of the litter (big if, actually, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared) then what should we do? What would be the right thing to do, and what would be the proper balance between right and practical?

Also, if anyone can tell me how to get started on making an actual animal rescue, or point me in the right direction to start my own research, we'd greatly appreciate it. Our neighborhood isn't HUGE, but it's got a TON of stray and feral animals. As I said, we're huge softies for animals. Having the resources and ability to spay/neuter animals and make sure stray kittens are being taken care of would be a dream come true for my mom.
Turning them to a shelter works ONLY if the shelter is specialized in helping semiferal mommas with small kittens.  Ie, if they do have foster homes ready for them.

If they dont have, its just another way to pts them.

Thus, its often much better to leave them be and take their chances in the outside (perhaps do some TNR).

IF its at all possible for you to continue with helping Hercules and Lucille, AND preferably the momma and the rest, its the optimal.   Remind Grandma it gives lotsa of good points - whatever she counts in Karma, or Gods Mother and little Jesus Child (Im not ironic, Im born in a catholic country, and this picture is still living with me, although I myself Im no catholic...).  Or plainly but superbly - God himself...

As said earlier: if you find the momma, she will probably accept the kittens back.

But - its a solution you do keep them.  After all, the optimal you take them for fostering at 5-6 weeks - because its easier to foster ferale born at this age than later on.

So you are doing it at 2 weeks.  Whatsa matter?  More work, yes, but you have already accepted the burden.

IF you find momma and the others, and IF you can have them all with you - its the optimal, giving you the eternal gratitude from us and these cats in question.

But if you cant, choose the niveu you can manage without tearing yourself apart.

Because we must face it - what is ideal is one thing, but what is practically possible - may be something entirely else...

Go for that what is practically possible.   You are now responsible for the fate of Hercules and Lucille.  The mommas and the siblings fate is their own...

I hope you had some use and help from my rant.
 

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ps.  Re the shelters: IF you want to admit them to a shelter, and the shelter says OK - be very sure they really do mean it and do have the means...  Because, shelters whom have for policy to pts admittes semiferales or small kittens, they dont want good people have bad conscience. So they routinely say:  Dont worry, we take care of this. We are used...

Se be really sure you know what you do. Dont guess and hope.

Its better to leave such a homeless cat outside, unless its clearly ill and slowly dying a painful death.

BUT.  The most common problem for most shelters is place, or good fostering homes.  Money or vet services are often not the same desperate limit.

So what works sometimes, is if you propose YOU are their fostering home, and the shelter helps you with vet care sometimes even food and litter,, and when the time comes, finding adoption homes.

If you want to yourself adopt one of the kittens, you of course do pay the usual adoption fee but are allowed to do so.
 

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First you'd need to actually locate mom and kittens, if there are anymore. Most shelters are full during kitten season, and looking for fosters. Some even euthanize when they get too full, so a shelter is out of the question.

Do you live in your grandmother's house?
 
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I live in my mother's house. My grandmother lives here too. Ultimately, though, this is my mother's house and what she says, goes. But my grandmother has a way of making things absolutely miserable if what she says isn't what goes.

IF we manage to find Momma and any other kitties, we'll take them in and take care of them until they're ready to be adopted -- eight weeks old for the kitties, after spaying, vaccines, and other treatments for Momma. If Momma can't get used to live indoors, we'll just get her her vaccines, spay her, and keep an eye on her while she's outside. Make sure she has food and everything. At that point, that's the most we could do. But that's only if we find her.

In regards to heating formula up in the microwave, I heat the water up in a bowl and then put the bottle in the hot water until it's warm enough. But I didn't always do that, so it's nice to be reminded every now and again. (: Also, in regards to rescues, we wouldn't be doing it for a few years, at the very least. It'd be a nice retirement career for my mother, and once I graduate, it'd be something for me to do, too. But volunteering at rescues between now and then is definitely a plan!

I have a couple more questions. I'm so sorry to ask about all this. As I said, it's been YEARS and you all have so much experience.

What are feeding habits for 6 week old kittens? My schedule next semester (exactly a month from today) requires that I be out of the house, Monday-Thursday, all day. Is it possible to leave them in a large crate with food (dry food mixed with water), water, a little box, and toys? Or should I rearrange my class schedule so that I can stay home with them all day at that age? I'm their only caretaker, and having my grandmother look after them isn't an option for me. I love her, but she can get a bit rough when she's upset. The moment a kitten makes a mess, she will fly into a rage, will make my life miserable, and may traumatize the kittens with her yelling.

Second question: My older kitten, Shepard, received her first round of vaccines and is due for boosters on Monday. She's not showing any symptoms of anything, but it's IMPOSSIBLE to keep her out of rooms. Also, it's easier to keep the kittens in my room at night so that I can hear them if something goes wrong, and it's easier to regulate the temperature in there. Shepard will NOT stay out of my room at night. She HAS to be wherever I am, unless I'm out of the house. So she does spend time in the same room as these kittens, but she leaves them alone and sleeps on my bed, while they're on the floor. I know that having new kittens, especially from feral mothers, in the same room as other pets isn't ideal. I've been warned about it and I did try, but Shepard won't let it happen. She'll cry for hours, and keep the rest of the house up. And leaving the kittens in the bathroom, where they're more likely to get cold and I can't hear them at night, is not an option for me. Is it okay if Shepard and the kitties share my bedroom at night, so long as Shepard doesn't bother them? They have a towel over their carrier. (We're getting them a large crate on Monday.) And if not, what kinds of measures can I take to protect both Shepard and the kitties? She's not sick with anything, tested negative for everything. Treated her for fleas and worms and everything. I'm more worried about the kitties than I am Shepard. So long as they're not touching each other, aren't sharing food/water, should they be okay? They're also going to get their own litterbox next week, when we get their crate, so they won't be sharing that, either.

Thanks so much! You guys have no idea how much you're helping me and these kitties.
 

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If Shepherd is vaccinated and not bothering anybody, it should be fine.

Since it is not your grandmother's house, I would think that what goes on is not her call. Perhaps she does not need to know every little detail. Perhaps her outbursts can be ignored somewhat.

About next semester, how many hours are you talking about? Kittens at 6 weeks need wet food every few hours, and they need supervising. It is a tender age to leave them for more than half a day. Could you arrange your schedule differently without harming yourself academically?
 
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She will get over it if it comes to that. She has a reliable home. People with that kind of fortune should always be willing to share it.

I will ask my brother and see if he's willing to look after the kittens during the day or if he has the time to bring me back here after class. If not, I will make the necessary arrangements and just take classes online next semester. It's not ideal but caring for a life is more important than comfort. Thank you!
 
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Lucille pooped! It was only a tiny bit but at least I know her body is working. Hercules hasn't yet. They ate less than usual (Lucille = 5 mL, Hercules = 6 mL) but I decided not to force it on them since they were passing out towards the end anyway. We're going to change their diet from canned KMR to powdered formula mixed with goat milk. I think I read on a different thread here that goat milk alone doesn't have all the nutrients growing kitties need, so someone suggested to mix it with powdered formula. Is this acceptable? Just wary because I know cow milk is very very bad. I don't want to do them harm.

Also didn't think it through, putting kitten food out there for Momma. The dogs got there before, it's only understandable that they'd get there again. They gobbled up all that food, the greedy little punks. I don't think we're gonna find Momma at this rate. But if I ever do, I'll let you guys know.
 
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8 mL for both of them tonight. Plus lots and lots of purring. I think they're gonna be okay. Thanks for all the help everyone. If I have any more questions/updates about these two I'll let you know.
 

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Lucille pooped! It was only a tiny bit but at least I know her body is working. Hercules hasn't yet. They ate less than usual (Lucille = 5 mL, Hercules = 6 mL) but I decided not to force it on them since they were passing out towards the end anyway. We're going to change their diet from canned KMR to powdered formula mixed with goat milk. I think I read on a different thread here that goat milk alone doesn't have all the nutrients growing kitties need, so someone suggested to mix it with powdered formula. Is this acceptable? Just wary because I know cow milk is very very bad. I don't want to do them harm.

Also didn't think it through, putting kitten food out there for Momma. The dogs got there before, it's only understandable that they'd get there again. They gobbled up all that food, the greedy little punks. I don't think we're gonna find Momma at this rate. But if I ever do, I'll let you guys know.
You must perhaps start to think more on the pooping.  As its becoming more and more apparent they are somewhat constipated. Begin with adding a couple of drops of coldpressed olive or canola oil into each portion.  After several feedings it will begin to work.  When - diminish the oil portions.

Almost any vegetable oil will do, but coldpressed olive or canola are healty food by itself.  Minerale oils arre even more potent, but how to find a minerale oil you are sure is food-grade?

Perhaps also dilute the kmr somewhat.  Its a common advice in this situation, making also sure they get enough with water.

Anothrer useful tip, you use warm water as massage and relaxing device.

You take a hold of the kitten in one hand (perhaps in a towel so its not sliring about), head to you, rear end to outside).  You have warm - but not hot running water - and put in the kitten rear end is the water.  So its feels comfortable, warm and nice for the kitten.  You hold the kitten there some moments, so it feels it alike soothening massage.  With forefinger of your free hand you tap on the genitalia, and especielly the butt - it feels like mommas tongue...   Works usually like a marvel.

Be sure there is no draugh, and you dry off the kitten. And its warm and comfortable - the wet tends to freeze...

You can do these both tricks parallelly....

Next step if necessary, you buy such a glycerine suppositorion for humans, and take of a tiny, narrow bit of it.  Use this tiny bit as suppositorioum in their butt.
 
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I will start off with diluting the KMR and running the warm water over the butt. That seems like a good starting point. I would start with the oil but I'm terrified of diarrhea. Lucille is going after every meal now. Hercules isn't. If he doesn't go by end of today, I will add a couple drops of olive oil to his breakfast and see if he responds to it. Thanks!

I'm also going to need a bigger syringe. These little guys are hungry.
 
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commanderscott

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Lucille and Hercules are eating so much now and they're still hungry even after 8 mL. I'm going to feed them again, then head to the store with my mother. My VA money came in two days early, so we're going to get a scale, a crate, and stock up on formula. Should I buy anything else for these little guys? They're thriving. Loud voices. Getting very strong. Eating more and more. I don't anticipate them passing away so may as well invest in their future now.
 
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