Stray kitten stuck. Help?

I agree with leaving out the cream, especially as Nemo just did so well without it. Most kitties love yogurt, and it is good for them. I thought you might see an immediate improvement upon switching! This is good news indeed! [emoji]128522[/emoji]

asleep at the meal

He is so sweet! But that nipple looks huge for him. Have you nothing smaller?

sarthur2 said:

I agree with leaving out the cream, especially as Nemo just did so well without it. Most kitties love yogurt, and it is good for them. I thought you might see an immediate improvement upon switching! This is good news indeed! [emoji]128522[/emoji]

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Yes, I figured the same. His weight isn't good yet, but his energy and stamina are increasing. It would be a different story if he was thin and listless. 

JennyR said:

He is so sweet! But that nipple looks huge for him. Have you nothing smaller?

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I know! ! This is what is available locally, I have another type on order that should be here Thursday. He's managing though. A little frustrated, but he gets the job done, 

If only animals would make appointments with rescuers in advance, so we can have everything onn hand! 

Lulululu said:

I know! ! This is what is available locally, I have another type on order that should be here Thursday. He's managing though. A little frustrated, but he gets the job done, 

If only animals would make appointments with rescuers in advance, so we can have everything onn hand! 

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My daughter says I am the only person she has ever met who carries a hoofpick and a dog lead in her handbag! And I have a cupboard at home permanently stocked with all kitten essentials. I have had too many occasions when it has all come in useful.

JennyR said:

My daughter says I am the only person she has ever met who carries a hoofpick and a dog lead in her handbag! And I have a cupboard at home permanently stocked with all kitten essentials. I have had too many occasions when it has all come in useful.

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A hoofpick, hmmm, hadn't thought of that one!  Should tell my daughter, who has one and used to work with horses . We carry a small plastic tub with small holes a bottle of water and a  bowl for it, and a can of catfood, some syringes and towels. I keep squirrel formula in the freezer, but it's been several years so I just replaced it with goat milk. Funny, how you;ll get one after another and then nothing

Henry sells syringes are from Denmarkthat don/t get sticky with age or use. I just ordered more  not sure where mine have wandered off to.

Found today in the camping utensil department of Walmart - collapsible bowls that my daughter pointed out can be expanded for large or small animals, for 1.99. Small enough to fit in a jacket pocket, but deep enough to give water to a large dog,

Has Nemo gained any weight yet?

sarthur2 said:

Has Nemo gained any weight yet?

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We had such a backslide last night that I was concerned, but he's up a little more than an ounce, if my kitchen scale is to be believed. I think that is probably about right. because he seems bigger, and he's starting to walk and play or cuddle a little before going back to sleep. He is still not agreeing to take enough at a meal to get a very round belly, but he seems to be satisfied and thriving nd growing. We've settled into a pattern that goes guzze guzzle guzzle, sip and nibble, snooze for 10 minuted and then guzzle guzzle, nibble. after that he either is knocked out, or decides to play - sampling things to suck on, examining his feet - he really likes sucking on his knuckles and forearm,   

He is not pooping much at all, but when he does it is still the loose consistency. He may be still working the KMR out of his system. He seems more comfortable. 

One reason why I use Greek-style yoghurt is because it is smoother and pre-strained. You can feed it separately or mixed with the milk. And I do not heat the feed but let it come to room temperature in the syringe or bottle, for ten minutes or so, often holding it tightly. That is usually sufficient. If you are mixing the yoghurt with the milk, make sure he is getting enough liquid in him - you should feed some plain water too.

Have you got a digital scale to monitor his weight gain?

I am glad he is getting a bit more inside him - you are doing well to feed him so often, it can be a really hard thing to do and exhausting. I once made a woolly 'pocket' or pouch, that I could wear round my neck and keep a kitten in it, warm and comfy against me and available to feed at any time. I even wore it to work.

Good luck, it is hard work but worth it.

Lulululu said:

 
Oops - posted a link to Henry's pets rehabbing supplies  in my update - didn't realise it would flag my comment for approval. So here is the abridged version - Little Nemo is doing great, but needs to work harder at eating eagerly and putting on weight. Vet visit went well, Got a small amount of fluids there. 

He wants to sleep 3.5 - 4 hours at a time. Going to have to interrupt his slumbers until he learns to eat more at a sitting. He's trying.  What he has done to that end is eat, doze lightly and then rouse and agree to eat some more. We'll get there. 

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The link to Henry's seems to have gone through just fine; I've bookmarked it in case of future need.

Lulululu said:

 

sarthur2 said:

I agree with the tiny syringe usage if they have a hard time sucking. So much easier to control, and as Jenny said, you know how much they are getting. The tiny 1 mL syringe is perfect. Later, some fosters put a nipple on the end of the syringe.

Are you using the premixed or powdered KMR?

Regarding sucking to pacify, the blanket scrap sounds great! I had a cat once who suckled a teddy bear's fur her entire life to the point of leaving bare spots.

Some of our forumists recommend a clean makeup sponge soaked in KMR.

I'm enjoying hearing about your older cats' reactions to Nemo!

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I'm using the premixed but expect to switch to the powdered tomorrow and was going to ask what your preferred mixing method is and how much you would  mix at a time ( 24 hours worth or more and freeze some)? . I have one of those shakers with a wire ball in it. Do you have a better idea?

I would also like your opnion on goatsmilk vs KMR. I ask because I have access to farm fresn goatsmilk, and actually have some thawing to try in my refrigerator right now. I thought Nemo might like the taste better and have more solid poops with it. He clearly dislikes the formula - I never met an animal that liked it, in fact. He is pooping like clockwork (prefers assistance in going before every meal) but the consistancy is runny. Vet smelled and wasn't too concerned, but if goatsmilk is as nutritional and not as iritating to his stomach (or pallete) I am up for switching. 

So cosmetic sponges do work! Dh and I debated this in the pharmacy on Sunday. He convinced me not to try them because he thought the pores were too small to hold much. They seem like they would be a more natural feel, be less messy, which would give me a better idea of how much he is getting. 

So long as he really suckles, I can measure his meal. That's good for half his meal. The other half, it's hard to tell how much is going in him and how much is going everywhere else. BUT, he is improving in this department. I'm pretty confident he'll gain weight today. 

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I've been making a lot of protein shakes for myself while waiting for my dental implants to heal, and I don't like using those shaker balls -- in my experience, powder gets stuck in them rather than being properly mixed by them.  What works well for me is this: .  And just in case that doesn't go through immediately, I'll PM you with it.

The important thing when using this is to make sure the whisk part is completely submerged before you turn it on, or it will spatter all over everything.

Margret

I loved reading this thread! Can't wait to see how this baby grows up!

Morning update - Little Nemo Likes his new goatsmilk milk and goatsmilk yogurt combination - and has been eating like a fiend since we introduced it. He wants to eat every 1.5 - 2 hours, including all last night.  Glad to comply as I don;t like setbacks like we had! My daughter, who has been in Florida since I got him, got home and suggested I leave him in her room to sleep "to share the misery" she said of late night feedings. She comes and wakes me when he cries, and, at one of the shorter feedings, she fed him herself - first time using the bottle, but he's got it down well enough that she felt she could do it and did. Very glad to have a little help! 

s

The new formula and nipples should come today. Those mothering nipples are just way too big for a kitten. Going to write the company, but I am pretty sure I'll hear they've researched and these are perfect for all small animals ~sigh~. Same with collars and harnesses. How does one leashtrain a kitten? A neccesity in our house, since we travel 3 hours away once a week.Next week,  I'll be designing some harnesses in preperration for when he is a big bouncy thing (relative to his current state) a month from now. 

He has started walking - pretty well skipped that kitten crawl stage. Went straight up on his feet and when he is determined, hardly wobbles at all. This is going to be a kitty on the run! But a cuddly one - wants constant contact with a human's skin. He'll grab onto us with both hands to make sure we don't sneak off and leave him to sleep on his own. 

Lulu is all in - she now not only lies outside his door when I am with him, she follows me to the kitchen, barking orders, when I go to heat water or get more milk. She is her old happy self, has gained weight and her fur is growing back in. That is no all kitten - the vet put her on a short run of prednisone (a derivitive of) to see if that helped the chewing. Perhaps she thinks this kitten is what is making her feel good. Works for me!

Oh! and Jessi told me he stops crying when he is spoken to, and we have seen that.. My daughter discovered he stops when she sings, too. He was crying and fussy after eating, so she sang to him and he went right out. 

My laptop is skipping letters and sometimes whole sentences, and then not allowing me to correct them. It's a new laptop, so clearly something is wrong. I can't do anything abotu it until this peiod is over, so I apologize for posts that don;t make sense - will do what I can to make posts legible. Thans for all your understanding and support!

JennyR said:

One reason why I use Greek-style yoghurt is because it is smoother and pre-strained. You can feed it separately or mixed with the milk. And I do not heat the feed but let it come to room temperature in the syringe or bottle, for ten minutes or so, often holding it tightly. That is usually sufficient. If you are mixing the yoghurt with the milk, make sure he is getting enough liquid in him - you should feed some plain water too.

Have you got a digital scale to monitor his weight gain?

I am glad he is getting a bit more inside him - you are doing well to feed him so often, it can be a really hard thing to do and exhausting. I once made a woolly 'pocket' or pouch, that I could wear round my neck and keep a kitten in it, warm and comfy against me and available to feed at any time. I even wore it to work.

Good luck, it is hard work but worth it.

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The yogurt that clogged was greek - it is smoother, but it is also thicker. I believe both the yogurt itself and  the heating were the problem, but no problem at all with the goatsmilk yogurt. 

I never had a baby that could tolerate room temperature milk/formula. They reject it and/or shiver. Room temperature these days is about 90 degrees here, so it's hard to believe anyone can shiver in this, but he does.  I may have gotten it too hot at some point (I always cool it to warm before feeding), - I suspected that. but when I made a fresh batch it also clogged - just not as badly. I will say, Nemo seems to have come to understand and accept that sometimes he needs to fight for his meal. He is not as easily discouraged as some babies can be. 

Did not know about adding water. Thanks! Will do that next feeding. We're not seeing much poop. 

We do not have a digital scale, though I can take him by my vet and ask them to weigh him if it becomes a big concern. What I have is a good quality kitchen scale, but they are not really designed to weigh something so small. 

It is exhausting, but I figure it is for him too, and i can take it better than he can. I a fortunate to have such a supportive family and to not have to juggle this with a set work schedule. 

I made a wooley pouch last Sunday, thinking the same thing - I have had 'bra babies' before, but they didn't have claws! But  then I realised that  just wrapping him in one of his lighternweight blankets and sticking him down the front of my camisole works well. I'm self employed though, so I don't have to be anyone else's idea of appropriately dressed. 

Thanks for the suggestions! 

I am glad you have a little help - you will need it after a week or two, though he will soon need feeding less often. You should be able to get a digital scale that weighs in grams at any Walmart or drugstore, and they are not expensive. It gives such reassurance to know they are gaining weight every day. Good work!

Margret said:

 
The link to Henry's seems to have gone through just fine; I've bookmarked it in case of future need.

I've been making a lot of protein shakes for myself while waiting for my dental implants to heal, and I don't like using those shaker balls -- in my experience, powder gets stuck in them rather than being properly mixed by them.  What works well for me is this: .  And just in case that doesn't go through immediately, I'll PM you with it.

The important thing when using this is to make sure the whisk part is completely submerged before you turn it on, or it will spatter all over everything.

Margret

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Thanks! 

OH! I have a child's milkshake blender from the 1940's! It is perfect for this. It's a real, plug in blender. Works just like a professional shake mixer, except it makes about 3/4 a cup of drink. That will be perfect. 

I had the same experience with the shaker ball, and to a lesser degree with a whisk. I really do not like thos shaker ball things! I've thought about replacing the wire thing with marbles until it is partially mixed - used to use a spoon. I did have luck using a fork as a whisk the other day though.It worked okay for small amounts.  I  intend to pick up a strainer, so I can single out and break up those lumps better. I will also be letting it sit in the fridge over night as Leigh at Henry's suggested. 

Yes, a digital kitchen scale from Walmart is inexpensive and will tell you daily how Nemo's weight is, which can be comforting to know.

Do you have a Pet Smart near you in Atlanta? Mine offers many choices of nipples for kittens in case yours do not arrive soon.

I never experienced much issue with mixing powdered formula alone. A whisk or fork usually did the job. I suppose it is the yogurt and heat causing the lumps. I also only mixed one cup at a time though.

Do you plan to switch Nemo to straight formula today once yours arrives? It may be easier for him to eat larger quantities if so.

He needs 8mLs of formula for every ounce of body weight each 24 hours in order to gain weight consistently. If he gets the proper amount he should make it 2 hours between feedings.

He needs to begin pooping somewhat regularly soon. Have you tried adding a drop or two of olive oil to his bottles?

It's heartwarming to hear that Lulu is doing so much better! You mentioned a chewing issue. Have her teeth been checked lately?

It sounds like Lulu would mother Nemo if she were allowed! I'll bet she can't wait. [emoji]128522[/emoji]

JennyR said:

I am glad you have a little help - you will need it after a week or two, though he will soon need feeding less often. You should be able to get a digital scale that weighs in grams at any Walmart or drugstore, and they are not expensive. It gives such reassurance to know they are gaining weight every day. Good work!

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Thank you.  And this is for all who feed by the scale: I've bottle fed a lot of babies without one and, while I can see their value, and indeed, NEED, with an inexperienced or even more, an inattentive feeder, I think there are better ways of measuring. This may seem like a really weird analogy, but I am a wood carver (knife, not dremel)  and I also don't use a kevler (protective)  glove to protect myself from getting cut. This makes some of my carver friends nuts, but I find that not having a glove (or a scale)  helps me focus on the details. I have not cut myself in years, and never badly, and I have yet to starve a baby. As a society, I think we have come to rely too much on outside cues and too little on inside ones, and that is to our detriment. I think using a scale is a back up too, and a good tool to learn on, but I would like to see people learning to rely more on other things. 

That said, I DO appreciate all the concern and all the advice. It's reassuring and I believe that even advice we don't necessariky agreewith can be helpful. If we don;t discard it out of hand, it makes us think.  

Maybe I need to reassure all of you folks too -  I know what it is like to sit on a forum and be fearful for an animal!  I have yet to aspirate or starve a baby, and the only one I ever lost was my first, a bluejay, to an infection. Our vet ( who was a wildlife vet) was amazed I kept it alive as long as I did ( 2 weeks).I typically take on animals that are not just orphaned, but are sick, injured and/or abused. I do not consider myself the most skilled out there by far, and I tend to forget things in between babies ( especially now, that it has been several years) but I do have unusually good intuition for this sort of thing. You have to have intuition and a creative mind to rehab wildlife, because most of us have no access to veterinarian care. We have even had a horribly abused rooster that a vet - the only avain vet in Atlanta -  refused to see, because he wan't a 'pet'.. I had teenagers at the time, and you can imagine how upsetting it was to them to have this vet stand in the doorway of the examining room and literally sneer at us that he wasn;t going to touch him and that he'd be dead by morning anyway. Disgsting enough to say that to an adult, but  I don't believe people in authority - be they doctors, teachers or policemen/firemen etc should ever behave that way around children. We went home, got on line, taught ourselves surgery, scrubbed down our bathroom, and got to work. When I turned green, my son, who was 17, said "I'll take over mom, you don't look good" and took my exacto knife scalpel, and finished the job, which was a type of fungal infection ( bumblefoot) that is considered fatal if it gets into their bones, which it had. We had no access to anything but over the counter drugs, but, I learned something interesting in that search. There is no better topical anticeptic than plain white sugar. It's apparently antifungal too. I found a study on laminitis in horses, that showed this and that convinced me to use it - you mix sugar with betadine and it is called sugardine. I have since met a doctor in a wound care center who secretly uses it - secretly because it is not improved by the FDA - basically because there is no profit in it. Within 3 days, a hole that was 3'4 deep and nearly an inch wide was filled in with healthy new skin. Mr. Bibby's breed has a 2 year lifespan, and he lived longer than that after surgery. I tell you this to assure you that we will stop at nothing to help an animal. For us, a kitten is a cakewalk, because we can so easily go to the vet and I did that first thing Monday morning, just to make sure there was nothing going on in addition to his being orphaned and underweight. 

Daily weighing has some downsides too. I can make us needlessly fret. Heck - the fact that I don't use one as a rule is making some of you fret! While increases certainly are the goal, and it is a terrible sign if there are none or few, they can also be decieving. Babies do not grow in a linear pattern, but in a progressive, regressive pattern (ask any pediatrician). So you're going to have days when there is no weight gain, or negative gain, as part of normal development. I try to use setbacks as inspiration to do better, rather than discouragement - I have seen people get discouraged and quit trying, to the same tragic result as believing all if going well when the formula is all dribbling down their chin orthe baby won't eat, so they decide it isn;t hungry. I also  find other cues more valuable - energy, mood,  urine output, a nicely rounded ( but not hard) belly, how many cc/s they took in (providing there wasn't loss in the process and they don't have th runs) - lots of things. One, A confident and enthusiastic attitude ( on the part of the animal) towards nursing is huge - it shows they know fuel is coming and that they will get all they need. My first squirrel was very sickly when I got her, and we had no experience, advice or supplies. Wile I got enough fuel in her to keep her alive, our combined deficits made eating an unhapy and frustrating affair for her. We got through it only with the help of experts on a forum like this. One in particular sat up with me night after night, suggesting homeopathics which were (a) available to someone with no vet access and (b) very effective, with this animal who had digestive problems in addition to nursing problems. I only wish I'd had the wherewithall to write everything down, because to some degree, every orphan has those issues.  

Please rest assured, I will not let this baby starve! I live a block away from a wonderful vet and he has already seen her, and will again if anything seems wrong. Also rest assured that I appreciate all the concern and especially the advice - all of it. I am not asking anyone to stop on my (or Nemo's)  account.  Just don;t worry too much yourself!