cat play or cat fight? how to tell difference?

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debbiegarland

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Update!!: Ok i'm so excited!! They were play fighting and then the resident cat LICKED the kitten! That's good right?! Like grooming.  They'll do this more eventually right? And they also sometimes nap in the same room!  They used to  always be interested in each other when they were in the same room but now they sometimes ignore each other.  This is all progress right?  

Also question: they play well together but after a while they break out fighting and hissing and I distract them with a toy.  Is this okay?  I now let them out together all day when I am home so the kitten is only in the bathroom at night.  So is what I'm doing sound okay or do you guys think them being together all day too much?  Any tips to progress further? Thanks! :)
 

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Sounds like they are coming right along and making a lot of progress. The toy distraction is a good idea. You're doing a great job!
 

animallover9

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It sounds a lot like play. There might be some dominance just while everyone learns there place. Grooming is defiantly a great sign! They will do it more and more as they bond closer together. Depending on if the other likes it. My oldest male will pin my youngest male down and groom him since he hates being groomed and doesn't like doing it himself. It does sound like they are getting along great though!! The hissing isn't a great sign but it is just something they use as communication so if the other did something the other one didn't like he may hiss to tell the other off. I don't think you have them alone to much at all. I was never one for leaving them separated when I wasn't around much more than a day or two while they adjust if things go well then I let everyone be together. I would try seeing what happens when you leave them together at night as well I would leave your door open in case something does happen you can hear it or someone can come running for safety. As long as you know the kitten is aware where everything is (litter, food, water) than you should be good to go in the end they just need to work it all out on there own. 
 
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debbiegarland

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Thanks guys!! Glad to know they seem to be doing okay!  Right now they are sleeping in the same chair together!! :)
 

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2.5 year old 10lb Tabby and 10 week old Bob.   Both boys and both headstrong. 
Tabby will put one paw on Bob's head with just enough claw in the fur so as to not slip that paw off that head.
Tabby will swat at Bob.  Not hard though.
Bob will wait for Tabby to look away, then he'll lunge and bite him in the side.  Tabby screams and IT'S ON!!!  (Sounds like a pack of dogs running through the house).  Bob chasing Tabby, then back they come, Tabby after Bob.

Tabby will pin Bob down and bite his scruff to hold him.
Bob's a little wiggle terror and can escape any hold so far, and gets a nibble in on Tabby on his way out.
And THEY'RE OFF!!  again...romping, chasing each other.

Bob is always stalking Tabby, but Tabby could hurt him bad if he wanted.  Never does.

This is some REALLY ROUGH play.
But, it is play.

Tabby's just teaching Bob manners.
BUT, There's just no quit in Bob.  Worn out and panting have little effect.  He's still going pounce Tabby any chance he gets.   (then again, Tabby was the same way when he was a kitten).

We just watch and cringe every now and then.  Pretty sure they will work it out as long as they are not hissing and growling.
 
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debbiegarland

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Wow good to know!  I just kinda freaked out because my resident cat pinned the kitten onto the floor and proceeded to bite the kittens neck (like pretty hard!) and didn't let go until the kitten was able to squirm away. And they growled at each other.  But i'm sorta getting mixed signals from them-sometimes they are great but other times not so much!  It makes me nervous watching them but I think/hope they will eventually be friends! 
 

basscat

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Wow good to know!  I just kinda freaked out because my resident cat pinned the kitten onto the floor and proceeded to bite the kittens neck (like pretty hard!) and didn't let go until the kitten was able to squirm away. And they growled at each other.  But i'm sorta getting mixed signals from them-sometimes they are great but other times not so much!  It makes me nervous watching them but I think/hope they will eventually be friends! 
Tabby used to get in my lap and lunge at my arm, grab and bite. (rough play).  I could yell and push him off my lap into the floor.  Before he hit the floor, he was on his way back up.  On my feet, crouched, crazy eyes, and tail swishing...getting ready to pounce again.

He wouldn't take NO for an answer.   Me tossing him was like saying "COME ON WITH IT!", and he wanted to play!   (He's still that way a little bit).
Baby Bob is the exact same way.

When they play, they play ROUGH.

That being said.  If Tabby accidentally rounds a corner and comes face to face with our 13 year old black cat?   It's not play.  She will flat out tear into him, hissing, screaming, yowling, biting, clawing, and fur flies.  It's not a pretty sight, and accidents like this don't happen often.  (He just flat out knows better than to come face to face with the Queen).

We don't even let Bob have the chance.  Probably should, once....but....Far as I'm concerned?  They never have to meet each other.

Just a distinct difference in fighting and playing.

One might make you cringe a little bit.
The other, there's just NO mistake.
 

andromedagalaxy

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Your cats sound a lot like how mine were when I first introduced them--after a couple of weeks separate and swapping rooms, they were both comfortable enough in the environment to want to be together sometimes, but hadn't quite figured out the new dynamic. Here are a few things that worked for me:

- My kitten just would not leave the other cat alone. They wanted to hang out, but the newcomer didn't necessarily want to wrestle or play chase right away. So: I'd put my kitten in his carrier (a Sherpa, which he has always liked to hang out in and which has mesh all around 3 sides) while the new guy walked around or just slept. I never did this for longer than an hour, and either one had been agitated I would have separated them again. The goal was for them to get used to being calm in each other's presence. I had tried to use a baby gate to do this, but they could wriggle through!

- Neither of my cats are/were very skittish or spooky at all. Once they had been properly introduced, it came down to the kitten's lack of manners. He either couldn't tell or didn't care if the new guy (who was, to be fair, quite playful as it was) had had enough. I could always tell when he'd reached that point because he'd hiss a bit and then make a horrible squealing noise, even if the kitten wasn't touching him :| I got a can of compressed air and if things reached that point when they were together, I'd zap it. The nice thing about it was that it didn't matter where i was in the house, and that it would startle them into leaving each other alone for a bit. The kitten caught on pretty quick.

- Pam Johnson's book about multi-cat households is very helpful and easy to put into practice

- Feliway diffusers! I use more than i probably need in my space (one in each room) and they may take a few days to kick in, but they definitely help. I just get the commercially available versions, but you can get stronger ones at the vet.

My boys still get on each other's nerves now and again, but it's more a case of them being young and rowdy and their fun wrestling (which is almost always silent) getting out of hand and someone crying. That's when the compressed air can makes a reappearance, but they'll split up if i yell at them now, too. The rest of the time they are snuggled up in a heap napping and grooming each other. It took a while, and a lot of patience, but it sounds like you're on the right track! :) Good luck!
 
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debbiegarland

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Thanks a ton everyone!  All your advice has been so helpful! 

Also any thoughts on like MAJOR tail puffing?!  I thought they were getting along pretty well.  They would play together a little less rough with less squealing and sometimes just ignore each other but recently when my resident cat sees the kitten his tail poofs up to ten times its size!!  But that is all that keeps happening; they are not attacking each other--just puffing up and then walking away and its mainly the resident cat puffing up.  But I guess this means they are still just getting used to each other right?  I was just surprised because I had never seen my cat's tail so big-like I though there was another animal (for a second I thought raccoon because my cat has similar printing like a raccoon lol)  in my house and that that was not my cat! Anyways this is all normal for cat intros right?! 
 

andromedagalaxy

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Tail poofing can sometimes just be goofiness (esp if they are being really hyper) or posturing. The main thing you want to watch for are the position of the ears and whiskers. If they are flat back against the head, that's usually a sign that things are starting to get out of hand. When cats are playing they might pull the ears and whiskers in a little bit to avoid getting hurt, but not all the way.

The other thing to watch for with tails, esp if the ears/whiskers are somewhat back, is how they are carrying their tails. This is most obvious when they're walking around or running. If the tail is up in the air, even if it's poofy, they're probably playing. If it's out behind them, but with a bit of lift at the base and a curve to the tail, they're usually relaxed. If it's twitching back and forth and tense (and they aren't stalking a toy or something), they're getting agitated.

If they're touching faces, even to gnaw on them (without hissing/squealing), that's a good sign. Cats produce "friendship" pheromones in glands on their faces, and rubbing faces on each other or bumping noses means they're sharing and seeking out those pheromones. Multiple scratch posts/pads and places to climb (i.e. cat tree, window perches) will also help them feel more comfortable.

Pam Johnson Bennett's website has some good short articles that can explain this better if you'd like to learn more!

Other things to look out for that would indicate that the intro isn't going well/you should go back to square one:

- litter box issues (make sure you have at least two, so they don't have to share if they don't want to

- not eating/drinking

- not relaxing at all in each other's presence

Good luck! It's great that you're putting the time and energy into making sure your kitties settle in together :)
 

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Thanks a ton everyone!  All your advice has been so helpful! 

Also any thoughts on like MAJOR tail puffing?!  I thought they were getting along pretty well.  They would play together a little less rough with less squealing and sometimes just ignore each other but recently when my resident cat sees the kitten his tail poofs up to ten times its size!!  But that is all that keeps happening; they are not attacking each other--just puffing up and then walking away and its mainly the resident cat puffing up.  But I guess this means they are still just getting used to each other right?  I was just surprised because I had never seen my cat's tail so big-like I though there was another animal (for a second I thought raccoon because my cat has similar printing like a raccoon lol)  in my house and that that was not my cat! Anyways this is all normal for cat intros right?! 
This is normal cat play. Mingo used to play with me with his back arched, tail straight up and poofed, and dancing sideways. He looked exactly like a Halloween cat. 
 
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debbiegarland

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Wow so good to know that this is all normal.  Thanks so so much everyone!! 
 
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debbiegarland

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Ok update and a question!!

Question: My cats eat out of each other's bowls so how do I know if they are getting enough food/too little?  The other problem is that I am switching my one cat to adult food and the other is still on kitten.  Is it detrimental to their health if they are getting some of the wrong food?  I tried to make my cats eat at set times but oh my they are such grazers--always leaving some food no matter what and then eating out of each others bowls!! So is this something I need to really worry about?  Or do cats know how much they need to eat?  For my dog he certainly does not know his limit--he would eat all day if he could lol! 

And Update:  Getting a second cat is the best decision i've ever made!  First of all it's double the love!  Second it has fixed the biting and scratching problems my original cat had.  But most importantly my original cat seems sooo happy!!  They don't fight anymore and they hang out all the time and are always in the same room.  They sleep and groom together and play with each other to get their energy out.  They are so adorable together.  And it has even made my original cat more friendly!  I think he sees how the kitten likes to cuddle with me and now he constantly wants to be held-whereas before he would not let me even pet him!!  I wish I had known before how much cats need each other!!  
 

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Wonderful update! There are always some cats that will prefer to be loners, but usually, adding a playmate is a great idea.

The eating from each other's bowls is not a huge problem if they're pretty good about sharing evenly. Kitten food won't hurt the adult and vice versa, it just has had some extra nutrients and calories.

Weight gain can be a problem in cats, although some are better at self regulating than others. To be absolutely certain, you can weigh the adult every now and then and if he's steadily gaining weight, then you'll probably have to intervene. But if their weights stay healthy, it's fine if their eating routine stays the same.
 

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@Debbiegarland  - That's just terrific that your two cats are now friends! You've given me hope - I may be adopting a new cat next week, and I've been worried that it may not turn out well. Glad your introduction has been so successful.
 
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debbiegarland

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Thanks for the help Molly92!  

And hope all goes well with the possible adoption for you DreamerRose!!
 

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I got a new kitten (Meeko, 11 weeks old 2 lbs) for my resident kitten (Happy, 4 months and a half around 4 lbs) last Saturday. I separated them for a few hours, swapping scents and they played with their paws under the door. The breeder and the vet had told me I could let them meet each other the same day since they are both really young and Happy should be really accepting of the new kitten.
It turns out Happy was absolutely THRILLED to have a friend. Too much, actually, for the little kitten. So I was separating them for a couple of hours at a time.
The last few days have been great; they sleep all cuddled up, they eat in the same food bowl and drink in the same water bowl at the same time - they take turns while the other one waits, even though they have several water bowls in the apartment and a water fountain.
Happy sometimes gets rough with Meeko, but I have come to realize most of the times, Happy wants to groom Meeko and the little one doesn't feel like it.
However, the last two days, I see Meeko is the one who attacks Happy more often than not he just jumps at his throat and they wrestle instantly. Meeko also bothers Happy whenever he is sleeping. Obviously Happy is not pleased and tries to put Meeko back in line but the little one just constantly squeals. When Meeko hisses (really not often) Happy leaves him alone but Meeko jumps back on him immediately and starts to yell again even if Happy is grooming his ears. I noticed Happy bites a lot Meeko's back legs and his rear when Meeko gets too intense and doesn't leave him alone. I have read about biting of the throat and ears, which they do, Meeko more than Happy, but never of biting the rear paws? Does someone know about this?

I think they are not really fighting because their ears are in normal position, their tails sometimes get agitated and Meeko squeals but there is no growling of puffed up hair involved. This morning was pretty intense in "kitten wrestling" but afterwards they fell asleep while Meeko was grooming Happy. So I'm a bit confused. Is this dominance and now Meeko tries to be the "higher cat in the hierarchy" over Happy? Is this normal rough play? Or is this just a plain cat fight and I'm mistaken?
 
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debbiegarland

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Jellycatfish i'm no expert, in fact these are the first two cats i've ever had but it seems like play to me.  It sounds a lot like how my cats played at fist.  They played very rough-now they play the same but just not so rough as they have gotten to know each other's boundaries.  Also my older cat will literally sit on top of my kitten and force groom him.  Sometimes the kitten likes it; other times he wiggles away!  Anyway it sounds like your cats are just getting to know each other.
 

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I have been having a similar situation with my two cats. My older female cat, age 4, will make a lot of noise and it sounds like a street fight in my house. My recently adopted male cat that is about 1 1/2, doesn't make a sound but that wrestle and both will chase each other. Yet, it sometimes seems like play as they try to catch each other at the corners and jump out.

I have been keeping them separated mostly during the days and work a lot of hours. I don't want them hurting each other. Then a pet sitter friend of mine told me that sounds like play. They do show affection to each other but within a 5minute span the chasing, wrestling, hissing and squealing starts to come from my female cat. Now, she will hiss at her toys when she is playing but this gets loud and gives anxiety.

If I had a video of it I would post it, but as for now I keep them separated until I can figure out what to do. Any help will be much appreciated.

All the videos I have seen and article I've read give options but that require an extra set of hands that I just don't have. It's just me and my two cats.

Again, any guidance will be much appreciated!
 

rascalshadownj2

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Sometimes my two cats start out playing, and then I hear some loud hissing and growling. Then I know that things are getting serious. So I rush over and try to break it up by clapping my hands together really loud. I always say it sounds like a couple of alley cats fighting. It's different when they are just chasing each other around the house. They run around all the time. But when they are outdoors, they are both preoccupied with doing other things. They hardly pay attention to each other. Being litter mates, they get along pretty well. But just sometimes they get into these fights. Guess it has to do with territory, or just who is on the couch or cat tree first. But I try to keep the fights down to a minimum. Debbie, glad to hear that your cats are getting along well.
 
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