cat play or cat fight? how to tell difference?

debbiegarland

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Can someone tell me what friendly cat play looks like? I just introduced my cats and can't tell if they are being friendly. Here is what they do:

-paw at each other's faces

-make this weird noise in their throats-doesn't sound like growling-it kinda just reminds me of the noise my dog makes when he whines

-the new kitten gets down on his back and shows his stomach to the older resident cat

-resident cat is usually the one chasing the new kitten-rarely the kitten chases resident

-ears are sometimes back flat against head

So most of the play is basically resident cat chases new kitten under couch and kitten paws at resident from under the couch.  I have only heard them hiss once at each other.  All I hear again is the weird throat noise and some grunts.  Is this friendly play? I'm worried because my resident cat is a lot bigger and he seems to be the one always on top of the kitten.  

Also every time I let them in the room together they always interact-is it bad that they can't just sit in the room and ignore each other?  They seem to want to play though-like sometimes they will be on either side of the door and play with each other's paws and meow until I let them be together.  Are these all good signs? 

These are my first two cats-I already made the mistake of only adopting one when I should've gotten two-so any help would be much appreciated so I can make sure they are both happy! :)
 

molly92

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Sounds like play to me, which is great! But since there's such a big difference in size you still need to be careful and sometimes intervene if the adult is getting too rough, because the kitten might not be strong enough quite yet to hold his own, especially if the kitten is very young. The couch game sounds like a really good one, because the kitten gets a bit of refuge but both still get to play with each other. They'll mostly figure out each other's limits on their own, but if you start to get worried it won't hurt to pull the adult off or distract them both with a toy.

They like to play all the time because a) that's what kittens do, and b) the other cat is still new and exciting! When you keep them separate and they only get together for supervised playtime when you allow it (which is how you should be handling introductions, so good job!), the play times become very exciting events. Gradually you can increase the length of these playtimes to the point where they get tired and take a break, and they'll learn to take naps in the same room together. But it sounds like they both have a lot of energy and are really relishing their playtime right now!

Hissing is a warning, and when cats are getting along well they respect the hiss and there's no need to become aggressive. As for the kitten not chasing the adult, kittens usually chase after adults when they're trying to convince them to play, and it sounds like this cat has not needed any convincing yet! It's good for them both to have separate areas of the house right now until the kitten's grown up a bit more, though, just in case.

I'm glad you got your cat a playmate! It sounds like he needed one!
 

DreamerRose

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With the ears flat and all the growling/whining going on, I think they are fighting, and I would break it up before it becomes outright warfare. Some of it is playing, but it sounds like it's going too far.

When the kitten rolls on his back and shows his tummy, he's being submissive to the resident cat. Make sure the resident cat doesn't take advantage of him at that point.
 

profdanglais

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That sounds a lot like how my kittens play and I've also been wondering if it was play or fighting. They chase each other around a lot, at first I thought the larger one was doing most of the chasing but now I think they chase equally. They pounce on each other and wrestle, and they bat each others' faces with their paws. Sometimes the ears are briefly flattened and sometimes someone shows a tummy. They also sort of chew at each other, around the face. They never hiss but sometimes I hear a squeak (they are only 10 weeks and don't really meow, but they squeak if they're upset) and that plus the face chewing had me wondering if they were getting too aggressive. They never use their claws though and I'm sure they love each other. They always curl up together when they sleep and they share food and litter with no problem. I guess I'm a bit worried that if they do eventually fight I might think they were just playing a bit rough. 
 
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debbiegarland

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Ok thanks everyone so much for the help! Only other thing I forgot to mention is that they bite each other while they wrestle.  But it's not like they are clamping down or anything so as long as they are not drawing blood is this play biting thing ok? 
 

juliejac0bs

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This sounds like playing. Unless you see their tail waving constantly and their furs all up as well as their body (like a frightened cat) with a growling noise. 

I've seen how cats fight and it's different from the one you described.
 
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debbiegarland

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Great thanks for all the help.  My two cats are doing great.  Now for introducing the new cat to the over playful labrador... oh boy!  Thanks again for all the advice!
 

juliejac0bs

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Np :) Glad to help. Watch out with the labrador tough. But i think you need not to worry, they are the friendliest of all dog breeds. I'm sure they'll get along
 
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debbiegarland

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New development!!  So now I let my cats play for a a couple of hours and then give them a break.  But now  they play play by wrestling-usually bigger resident cat on top of kitten and they wrap themselves around each other holding in very tightly and then bite each other.  And they chase a lot and stalk each other.  And occasionally the resident cat literally sits on top of the kitten!  Is this all friendly?  It's kinda hard to tell.  Still no hissing though-occasional gutteral meow sound. When they start making this weird throat noise (idk if it is a growl?) I usually separate them.   

Is this how cats play--wrapping themselves around each other and biting?? Is this normal?  Should I be worried that my resident cat is always the one on the top pinning down the kitten and that they bite each other?  

Any advice about reading cat body language and what friendly play looks like would be much appreciated!  Thanks!
 

catlover73

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It sounds like your adult is trying to teach the younger one boundaries and manners. My Tegato used to pin my kitten to the floor when she was being a brat. She was separated from mom and siblings too early and had no concept of boundaries when playing with other cats. She would demand play by walking up and chomping on Tegato's head. She never chomped hard enough to hurt him but he would pin her to the floor before allowing play. She did not like it and would loudly complain. I broke it up a couple times but realized what was happening and why. I learned to step back and watch. Once she started learning manners and boundaries then playtime became more balanced.
 

detroitcatlady

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Growling doesn't necessarily mean they are fighting I've had cats do this during rough play as a way to communicate that the other cat is doing something they don't like. When kittens are young playing is how they learn, rough play teaches them not to get too rough and they learn what other cats don't like. It's a very natural and normal thing. Sometimes cats will get too rough or try to show dominance with younger kittens so you might want to keep an eye on them but once they get used to each other and as the kitten gets older this isn't really a big deal. Wrestling and playful biting is ok as long as they aren't drawing blood or hurting each other.
 
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profdanglais

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My kittens absolutely play like that. They are litter mates and when they wrestle they are each on top about half the time. I've noticed that they use their claws a lot less now when they play with me, so I think they are teaching each other about what's appropriate. 
 

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I've been following this thread because it's similar to my own situation. Spike came from the shelter about a month ago so I don't now his background. He's now 16 weeks old and only a few grams less than Sugar and growing daily. It took a while but they play now but it's rough play and it's he who always ends up on top. He shoulder charges her, rolls her and pins her. If she gets away he chases and repeats.

Sugar's 14 months old and I assume she should be the teacher'. If he keeps growing at this rate he's be bigger and heavier in a week or two. How will this work out. Will he respect her maturity and the fact that she was here first? I go back to work next week and I'm worried one of them will get hurt, probably Sugar.
 
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debbiegarland

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Thanks for all the advice!  But just a couple of minutes ago they kinda got into a big fight--like iv'e never seen them act like this!  They hissed and snarled and poofed up and wouldn't stop!  I separated them-but should I not separate them when they fight so they can learn to work it out themselves?  It seems to me that they start out fine but towards the end of all their play sessions they break out into fights-should I stop these fights?

Also I don't want to rush the introductions but i'll be out of town for a week in about a month so typically how long do these intros take?  Because I want to have them all settled before i'm gone!  And my poor kitten seems to be hating being couped up in the bathroom (his safe room)-he's practically bouncing off the walls!  So I want him to be able to go in the whole house ASAP! 

Third thing, at this point they I  think they just need to get used to each other so I just let them out in the house together for short periods of time supervising them of course!  But what else should I do.  At this point can all I do is sit back and watch?  

Thanks for all the encouraging advice so far!  It's so super helpful!! Maybe i'm just over reacting but I so want them to be buddies!! 
 

catpack

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Defiitely good to separate when they begin to fight or as soon as you can break up a fight.

To back up a bit...
How long have you had the kitten?
How old are both cats?
What gender are they and are they spayed/neutered?
How did you go about introducing them?
 

molly92

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It's probably best if you start separating them before they start getting aggressive, that way the playtime ends on a happy note. Plus, the more often they end up fighting, the more likely they are to expect a fight at the end of playtime, and the more likely it is to happen. But if you separate them before they've started getting annoyed with each other consistently enough, they'll have more positive associations overall with each other.
 
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debbiegarland

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Great thanks guys!

And here's some more info Cat Pack

Iv'e had the kitten for maybe almost 4 weeks.  Resident cat is about 10 months and kitten is about 3 months.  They are both male and neutered.  

For a week I kept the kitten in the bathroom and fed both by the door-the bathroom worked great because the door has slits so the kitten could see the resident cat through the door a little but the  resident cat couldn't see him.  I swapped scents putting a towel of each other's scents under the food bowls.  And both cats were so excited and they would play with each other's paws under the door for hours.  My resident cat loved it-he spent all his time down their playing wit his paws!  And then I would crack the door open so they could see each other and could sniff noses but nothing more.  And the third week I let them out together for a couple of minutes while playing with both.  And since then iv'e just been increasing their play time.  

Does this sound okay CatPack?  Anything more I should do to progress their relationship in a healthy way? 
 

siggymauw

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I agree with Molly92 that it's better to kind of divert their attention from each other at the end of playtime. Distract them with a toy and then let them eat in close proximity to each other. I would place the younger kitten back into his safe room and place his bowl against the closed door and let the older cat eat on the other side. That way they will associate playing nice with something positive (food).If they aren't hungry you can just give them a treat in their bowls or a small bit of their normal meal.

If the kitten is bouncing on the walls of the bathroom then you can first play and tire him out a bit before letting them play with each other. Same with the older kitty, play with him first, tire him out and that way there is less chance that they'll convert that energy towards eachother.

Good luck with everything and enjoy your kitties!
 

DreamerRose

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I think you should break up the play/fights when it gets too serious. My son and his wife got two kittens about the same age over a year ago, and they tumbled and played like you described. When they got too rough, and one of them cried out, my DIL would stop it and break them up. The kittens are now a seriously bonded pair.
 
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debbiegarland

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Thanks everyone!  Everything you guys have said has been super helpful!  :)
 
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