TNR surgery risk?

I'm new to TNR and I am wondering how many of your cats end up dying as a result of surgery, or end up being put down before surgery because of poor health. I'm not being critical of TNR, I'm just beginning to wonder what I'm getting myself into, emotional toll wise. Thanks.

Most ferals who have survived to adulthood are very tough. They have to be to have lived that long. Occasionally there may be an old or diseased cat who might be pts. Sometimes a kitten with a prolapsed anus or other problem that would be hard to fix in an unhandlable cat. Generally ferals are only pts if they have something they're already dying of anyway, so it's really a mercy.

In general, for cats, the risk of death from anesthetic is about .25% (1 in 400). I don't know if ferals have a higher or lower risk.

Make sure you know what the policies are at the clinic you use. Some clinics will test for FeLV/FIV and pts any cat who tests positive. Alley Cat Allies doesn't recommend testing asymptomatic cats. But that's a decision you have to make about how you want to manage your colonies.

I don't know what the risk is after surgery. As I said, ferals are pretty tough. I've never lost one but I'm sure it happens occasionally. I don't have a guess about how high the risk might be though.

   Welcome to TCS and thank you for entering the challenging, rewarding world of TNR! 

I haven't lost any kitties during TNR - the risks of being an unspayed/unneutered feral are much, much greater than the risks of surgery. My vet is willing to keep them overnight so I provide a "recovery cage" (a medium-sized dog crate that has a small cardboard box lined with papers & towels, plus those small dishes that attach to the door, for water, since they don't get fed till the next day). To ease the trauma of being trapped and enclosed, I cover the trap, and then the recovery cage, with an old sheet or beach towels because ferals feel safest in a "cave like" setting.....if they cant see you, they seem to think that you cant see them.

But life is reality, and that includes suffering and death - it can be emotionally difficult but as my dad taught me, no matter how sad or angry or disappointed you may wind up feeling about their situations, remind yourself that it is about the cats and their welfare, not about you. Remind yourself that you are made of "strong stuff" and please know that your TCS family is always here for you!! You can Private Message any one of us at anytime, if you prefer not to post publicly.

And in addition to Willowy's posts, you could search posts by Norachan, StefanZ and ShadowsRescue for some excellent advice and perspective on a variety of issues particular to ferals.  take care & may you be blessed with many successes!!! Susan

surya said:

 
I'm new to TNR and I am wondering how many of your cats end up dying as a result of surgery, or end up being put down before surgery because of poor health. I'm not being critical of TNR, I'm just beginning to wonder what I'm getting myself into, emotional toll wise. Thanks.

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As the others said, death because of the surgery seems very rare. -  PTS of cats whom after examination are apparently  deadly sick is really a blessing for them, and for the caretaker too in the long run, so this is no big problem. So to speak.

Although, we do meet occasionally forumists whom are despaired.  They tell perhaps -  I was ready to adopt this cat if I knew it couldnt not longer manage to live outside.  And being inhouse cat, it would manage OK, even with these health problems.

Likewise, the variation of them testing postively for FIV or even Felv although the cat seems entirely healthy.  One is, the tests are sometimes false.  The other is, if such a cat is adopted as inside only (and sometimes they ARE decently socialized) - and the adopter knows all the ropes of what to do and what not, such a cat can often live many good years, if unstressed and with good food and care.  Especielly FIV isnt that bad, and not very contagious, essentially contagion just by deep bites.  And a friendly cat, together with other friendly cats, is very seldom biting for real, no?  .  Felv is more tricky and more contagious - here you MUST know.

So, as said, be sure you know the policy of the vet clinic in question - and if so is, tell them clearly your wishes beforehand.   Ask them to phone at least and a discuss, before they do anything lethal.

I've never had a cat die or suffer any ill effects from being spayed or neutered. I've only TNR'd a small colony, around 35 cats, but they've all been fine.

I had to have one cat PTS because of health problems caused by him being FIV+. He was an adult feral and had been really badly bitten by other tom cats. I had him neutered and kept him as an indoor/outdoor cat for over a year before he finally got so sick that I had to let him go.

I have two FIV+ cats now. They live with the rest of my cats quite happily. I don't worry about them passing on the disease because they all get along so well together. 

i would like to echo what others have stated; all the feral cats that I TNRd did very well. They were often returned within 24 hours of surgery and usually showed up again in 2 days, no worse for wear and seemingly in no pain. I was also afraid at first they would be upset and never come back, but they all did; somehow, thankfully, they don't associate the caregiver with the trauma of the TNR process.

I was feeling terrible because the first cat I brought in had to be put down. He was in terrible shape so I understand. He turned out to be a very sweet little tame kitty, so I did some crying over him. Then two tame kitties who hang out on my porch were taken in (I don't have a car, so someone is doing it for me). The little girl had an infection in her female parts. She wasn't eating at first, they kept her for two days and dropped her off at my apartment. I couldn't find her. I figured she must be dead and did some crying over her. But I found her today. Yay!!!!!! There's not that much I can do for the cats, because I'm poor, but I just do the best I can. I love them.

surya said:

 
I was feeling terrible because the first cat I brought in had to be put down. He was in terrible shape so I understand. He turned out to be a very sweet little tame kitty, so I did some crying over him. Then two tame kitties who hang out on my porch were taken in (I don't have a car, so someone is doing it for me). The little girl had an infection in her female parts. She wasn't eating at first, they kept her for two days and dropped her off at my apartment. I couldn't find her. I figured she must be dead and did some crying over her. But I found her today. Yay!!!!!! There's not that much I can do for the cats, because I'm poor, but I just do the best I can. I love them.

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Its often the love which is the decisive factor.   And you being poor.   What was the proverb in Bible?  It was the poor widows little penny which made all the difference, no?

I agree that most female ferals handle the spay surgery well.  However, one of the female ferals I trapped and spayed almost died after the surgery. It turned out, from labs I had done on her afterwards, that she had been extremely malnourished and anemic, and because she was in heat, bled a lot during the surgery.  As a result of the anesthesia, she had temporary liver and kidney damage, and also got an internal infection. I had to syringe feed her and had her on antibiotics for a month.  They also "tipped" her ear without my approval, and they botched it, and removed a full third of her ear. I took her to another vet and learned that several months earlier she had been shot in the hip with a bullet and the leg had been broken and healed crooked. I had planned to release her back outside, but needless to say, ended up keeping her and socializing her. She's my little princess.

This is what I learned from the experience: If a female cat appears as though she may have health or malnourishment issues, it's best to pay the extra hundred dollars to have lab work done to make sure she is able to handle the anesthesia and surgery. Spay, unlike neuter, is a major surgery-the equivalent of a hysterectomy for a human female. Mia almost died because I wanted to save the money, and instead I ended up spending about 500 dollars getting her well. I sensed that she was "different" and somewhat "slow" when I trapped her, but didn't listen to my gut feeling. I realize her situation was unusual, and most cats handle the spay very well, but it's a matter of being observant and asking the vet questions if there is a question about a cat's health prior to the surgery.

MsAimee said:

 
I agree that most female ferals handle the spay surgery well.  However, one of the female ferals I trapped and spayed almost died after the surgery. It turned out, from labs I had done on her afterwards, that she had been extremely malnourished and anemic, and because she was in heat, bled a lot during the surgery.  As a result of the anesthesia, she had temporary liver and kidney damage, and also got an internal infection. I had to syringe feed her and had her on antibiotics for a month.  They also "tipped" her ear without my approval, and they botched it, and removed a full third of her ear. I took her to another vet and learned that several months earlier she had been shot in the hip with a bullet and the leg had been broken and healed crooked. I had planned to release her back outside, but needless to say, ended up keeping her and socializing her. She's my little princess.

This is what I learned from the experience: If a female cat appears as though she may have health or malnourishment issues, it's best to pay the extra hundred dollars to have lab work done to make sure she is able to handle the anesthesia and surgery. Spay, unlike neuter, is a major surgery-the equivalent of a hysterectomy for a human female. Mia almost died because I wanted to save the money, and instead I ended up spending about 500 dollars getting her well. I sensed that she was "different" and somewhat "slow" when I trapped her, but didn't listen to my gut feeling. I realize her situation was unusual, and most cats handle the spay very well, but it's a matter of being observant and asking the vet questions if there is a question about a cat's health prior to the surgery.

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Yes, this is a correct remark.  So for example, its common everything is done at one visit. Ie deworming, vaccinating, spaying. To spare money, time, not need to bother a shy cat several times...  And with fully healthy cats its usually OK.  As said, succesful ferales have immunitiy and healing meat above average.

BUT.  Cats whom are visibly under the weather, be they emaciated, or have other visible distress - take it in two or even three portions.  Why, its sometimes even correct to wait with the vets, let them land, let them eat up themselves and build up the reserves, and firstly then, you go to the vet and do all works.

surya said:

 
I was feeling terrible because the first cat I brought in had to be put down. He was in terrible shape so I understand. He turned out to be a very sweet little tame kitty, so I did some crying over him. Then two tame kitties who hang out on my porch were taken in (I don't have a car, so someone is doing it for me). The little girl had an infection in her female parts. She wasn't eating at first, they kept her for two days and dropped her off at my apartment. I couldn't find her. I figured she must be dead and did some crying over her. But I found her today. Yay!!!!!! There's not that much I can do for the cats, because I'm poor, but I just do the best I can. I love them.

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The key points are 1: you DO something for those precious cats and 2: you LOVE them. For that, they, and we who love cats, are very grateful. You were very brave and selfless when you gave the first cat the blessing of a peaceful, painless passing  - if only all the other homeless cats could have it so easy..... I am glad that you found the little girl kitty - hopefully she was given an injection of long-term antibiotic and is on the road to recovery. Successful feral cat care has many forms, not always what we expect, but the bottom line is to prevent/relieve the suffering and illness;  to provide food, shelter,s/n and vaccinations....in this imperfect world, not all cats can get the top-of-the-line veterinary services that we all want them to have,  but the care that we do get for them is far better than having nothing done for them at all. Keep soldiering on!!

 

You have to have a bit of perspective with ferals. . .they aren't housecats. They aren't going to live 20 years and their lives aren't going to be cushy. That's not really what we're trying to do for them. They usually don't even want to be spoiled housecats. They want to be wild animals. We're just trying to make their lives better. Anything you can do for them will help.

I know it's true that crying over the kitties doesn't do them any good. I'm really confused about figuring out when it's OK to have the females fixed.And telling if they have babies somewhere that need them. Also, there are other people feeding stray cats here and if I take a pregnant female in, that may be upsetting to them. I don't feel great about killing kittens. I have a lot to learn about all of this.

surya said:

 
I know it's true that crying over the kitties doesn't do them any good. I'm really confused about figuring out when it's OK to have the females fixed.And telling if they have babies somewhere that need them. Also, there are other people feeding stray cats here and if I take a pregnant female in, that may be upsetting to them. I don't feel great about killing kittens. I have a lot to learn about all of this.

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I know how you feel. It's a real dilemma, isn't it? I felt awful when I found out that some of the female cats I'd taken in to be spayed had been pregnant, but it was too late by then.

You just have to keep a really close eye on all the cats you see. If a cat is nursing kittens you can usually see that her nipples are enlarged and a little bald. If you've seen her looking like she's nursing kittens for about 3 or 4 weeks it usually means her kittens are big enough to be left on their own for 24 hours while she's getting fixed. You can wait until you actually see the kittens, or even better trap them, but chances are the mother will be pregnant again by this point.

The way I see it the kittens that are already born should be a priority. If you TNR the mother when they are too small the kittens may die while she is away. I'd rather wait until I know her kittens are big enough to keep warm by themselves and run and hide from danger if I haven't already trapped them. This may mean spaying a pregnant cat, but if a cat has two litters that close together some of the kittens may die anyway as she can't take care of all of them at the same time.

My rule is that if she doesn't look pregnant I'll take her in to be spayed, but if she looks like she is pregnant I'd rather wait until the kittens are born and try to help the whole family as best I can.

No need to tell your neighbors if a cat you TNR'd was in the early stages of pregnancy. Just say a little prayer for those that didn't make it and do everything you can for those that did.

The female feral I trapped and spayed in March was tiny-about 4-5 months old- and it turned out she was pregnant. I had no problems with the spay surgery which resulted in abortion because 3 months later, this kitten is still tiny, and I think her growth might be permanently stunted due to malnutrition and parasites early on in her life. I can't imagine that either she or her kittens would have survived if she had had them. I took her into my home and she is very much a kitten in size and personality. She plays all day long and doesn't have a care in the world. Sometimes the most merciful thing we can do with pregnant cats (especially pregnant kittens) is to go ahead and do the spay surgery.