Feral kitten socialization advice

baar baar jinx · Jul 9, 2016

I'm posting here in hopes that other members experienced with feral kitten socialization can give me some advice. I realize there are a few similar threads that already exist here, but I didn't want to hijack someone else's discussion.

A little background. I live in a ground floor apartment whose rear patio faces a fence that separates the property from the woods. I have a shed that's attached to my unit. We have a few feral cats that run around, although they don't seem to be organized into a colony as such, and I began feeding them about six months ago. I have managed to TNR most of them, but about six weeks ago a new female showed up and quickly started spending almost all her time here. So I was really surprised when about three weeks ago, she suddenly brought two kittens with her! I never saw her pregnant and didn't imagine she was a nursing mother, since she was on my porch most of the day. I estimate that the kittens must have been about two months old when they first showed up; they were eating solid food and their eyes were yellow. They seemed pretty healthy. They soon became regulars at my porch; the mother would bring them in the evenings, let them eat what I put out, nurse them for a while, and then take them back wherever she had them hidden. The differences in their temperament were obvious even at that stage; one is a black kitten that I assume (without real evidence) is male, and the other is a tabby that I assume, again without proof, is female. The black kitten is clearly the braver, more outgoing of the two, and within a few days would approach me on his own and meow at me for food, and I could pet him when he ate. The tabby has always been easily frightened, and would only eat warily if I was out of sight.

I decided that I wanted to rescue and adopt these kittens. I have never done anything like this before, so I did as much research on the internet as I could. I intended to start the socialization process in my shed, and got a socialization crate. I managed to trap them and transfer them to the crate, but the process frightened them and they cowered at the back of the crate behind the litter box and behaved truly feral (even the black kitten, which was hard to watch). For the first two days, as per the suggestions of most of the resources I consulted, I spent a lot of time in the shed, talking to myself or reading aloud, working on my laptop, and leaving the radio on when I wasn't there. I did not attempt to handle them. After two days, I opened the crate and they quickly ran into a winter shelter I had used for the ferals over the weekend and brought into my shed for the summer. That was about ten days ago, and they now spend most of their time in that shelter. They can see me and I can see them, and if I really wanted to, I could reach in and try to grab them, but I have generally tried to leave them unmolested when they are in there. I have been continuing to spend as much time as I can in the shed, and they seem to have gotten somewhat used to my presence; the black kitten comes out of the shelter when I'm around, eats and plays in front of me (but not with me), and uses the litterbox without hesitation even when I'm there. The tabby is still very scared, although on occasion she will eat if I'm in the shed; any sudden move on my part and she scoots back to the shelter. I am able to feed both of them baby food with a spoon. However, neither of them is yet comfortable with being handled. I tried petting them when they eat, but the black one's ears flatten and he stares at my hand when I bring it close (although he doesn't run unless I actually touch him ... this is a regression from when he was out on the porch, because he let me pet him easily then). The tabby won't tolerate any attempt at touching her, and runs back into the shelter. I haven't really petted her at all.

So my question is this; should I try to force more attempts at petting? Should I try to get the kittens out of the shelter, or maybe move them back into the crate (I would probably have to trap them again in my shed to move them to the crate, since I'm not sure they will let me pick them up). Or should I just stay the course? I had hoped by ten days I would have been further along in their comfort level with being touched.

ginny · Jul 9, 2016

Ten days is not long. It took me months of work socializing mine. The key with taming feral cats is to be very patient. If you have the time and are not forced to quickly socialize them, then don't force yourself on them. Let them approach you. I remember the day when Honey let me pet her. Actually she brushed by my leg, so she pet me first! it will happen. Just give it time.

baar baar jinx · Jul 10, 2016

Thank you for your response. So your advice would be not to worry about handling them, even though the "socialization window" is rapidly closing? I do recognize since that they are probably almost12 weeks old at this stage, any such window has probably already closed, but don't want to lose any advantage there may be to their young age.

jcat · Jul 10, 2016

Our shelter does a lot of TNRing of feral colonies. Feral kittens up to the age of 6 months aren't returned as a matter of principle, but socialized, and the method used is "force yourself on them", meaning we handle them as much as possible. The younger they are, the more they're petted, picked up against their will and carried around. Most older kittens (5 or 6 months) are petted and hand fed treats as much as possible; once they accept that they're also picked up. It works, but not without a few scratches from the older ones.

Past the age of 6 or 7 months we use the patient approach.

ginny · Jul 10, 2016

Baar Baar Jinx said:
Thank you for your response. So your advice would be not to worry about handling them, even though the "socialization window" is rapidly closing? I do recognize since that they are probably almost12 weeks old at this stage, any such window has probably already closed, but don't want to lose any advantage there may be to their young age.

Yes that window has already closed. It's 4 to 8 weeks and the closer to birth the better. When you say "force yourself on them" what exactly do you mean?

I said "if you have time" meaning you don't have some property manager calling Animal control to set kill traps. This is what happened to me and I was forced to bring them indoors to save them. The socialization continued inside. Also, I would agree that a shelter would have to move much faster, therefore "forcing themselves" on the kittens. Personally, I wouldn't recommend it.

StefanZ · Jul 10, 2016

Baar Baar Jinx said:
I'm posting here in hopes that other members experienced with feral kitten socialization can give me some advice. I realize there are a few similar threads that already exist here, but I didn't want to hijack someone else's discussion.

A little background. I live in a ground floor apartment whose rear patio faces a fence that separates the property from the woods. I have a shed that's attached to my unit. We have a few feral cats that run around, although they don't seem to be organized into a colony as such, and I began feeding them about six months ago. I have managed to TNR most of them, but about six weeks ago a new female showed up and quickly started spending almost all her time here. So I was really surprised when about three weeks ago, she suddenly brought two kittens with her! I never saw her pregnant and didn't imagine she was a nursing mother, since she was on my porch most of the day. I estimate that the kittens must have been about two months old when they first showed up; they were eating solid food and their eyes were yellow. They seemed pretty healthy. They soon became regulars at my porch; the mother would bring them in the evenings, let them eat what I put out, nurse them for a while, and then take them back wherever she had them hidden. The differences in their temperament were obvious even at that stage; one is a black kitten that I assume (without real evidence) is male, and the other is a tabby that I assume, again without proof, is female. The black kitten is clearly the braver, more outgoing of the two, and within a few days would approach me on his own and meow at me for food, and I could pet him when he ate. The tabby has always been easily frightened, and would only eat warily if I was out of sight.

I decided that I wanted to rescue and adopt these kittens. I have never done anything like this before, so I did as much research on the internet as I could. I intended to start the socialization process in my shed, and got a socialization crate. I managed to trap them and transfer them to the crate, but the process frightened them and they cowered at the back of the crate behind the litter box and behaved truly feral (even the black kitten, which was hard to watch). For the first two days, as per the suggestions of most of the resources I consulted, I spent a lot of time in the shed, talking to myself or reading aloud, working on my laptop, and leaving the radio on when I wasn't there. I did not attempt to handle them. After two days, I opened the crate and they quickly ran into a winter shelter I had used for the ferals over the weekend and brought into my shed for the summer. That was about ten days ago, and they now spend most of their time in that shelter. They can see me and I can see them, and if I really wanted to, I could reach in and try to grab them, but I have generally tried to leave them unmolested when they are in there. I have been continuing to spend as much time as I can in the shed, and they seem to have gotten somewhat used to my presence; the black kitten comes out of the shelter when I'm around, eats and plays in front of me (but not with me), and uses the litterbox without hesitation even when I'm there. The tabby is still very scared, although on occasion she will eat if I'm in the shed; any sudden move on my part and she scoots back to the shelter. I am able to feed both of them baby food with a spoon. However, neither of them is yet comfortable with being handled. I tried petting them when they eat, but the black one's ears flatten and he stares at my hand when I bring it close (although he doesn't run unless I actually touch him ... this is a regression from when he was out on the porch, because he let me pet him easily then). The tabby won't tolerate any attempt at touching her, and runs back into the shelter. I haven't really petted her at all.

So my question is this; should I try to force more attempts at petting? Should I try to get the kittens out of the shelter, or maybe move them back into the crate (I would probably have to trap them again in my shed to move them to the crate, since I'm not sure they will let me pick them up). Or should I just stay the course? I had hoped by ten days I would have been further along in their comfort level with being touched.

Two small remarks - too late now, but still.

do have a little hidey in the crate itself too, alike cat igloo or similiar. It makes them more comfortable...

Second, having radio on is a mistake at this stage. It just trigger on their fears. YOUR voice is OK, its friendly and patient, and also connected with their food source. OTHERS voices just trigger their fear and alarm.

LATER on when they have landed and are completely sure there is no real danger, it may work yes.

Before they landed, its calming relaxing music which is a better try... Ie helping them to relax, to not be so afraid as scared... You can still use the music.

Classic harp music is best thay say, but almost any may work.

Otherwise, its time and patience which is your allies. Blackie seems more daring - use him as the positive example for the shy tabby...

If you dont have time, then some sort of force cuddling is a solution worth a try (have them in a burrito and carry around a good while talking sweetly)

ondine · Jul 10, 2016

Thank you for saving these babies.

I always used the patient approach but a more active approach works too. It really depends on your own comfort level. Follow your instincts and learn their body language.

One tip to remember is to use your fist when approaching them - not an open hand. The open hand looks like a predatory thing. The fist looks a bit like a cat's head, looking for a head bump. They will respond by lowering their head and that's when you open your hand and give them a head scratch. Work up to full body petting from there.

Good luck and keep us posted.

ginny · Jul 10, 2016

My once feral Ned loves my fist. He always bonks my fist any time he comes up to me. He expects it. In fact, if I'm near the door to the garage and he wants to go explore in there, he has to get a head bonk first. LOL. He looks up at me as if to say "Can I get a pass?" He's so cute!

baar baar jinx · Jul 10, 2016

Thanks, all, for your suggestions. My instincts tell me not to force it, to keep spending as much time in the shed as I can, talking to myself/them and putting food down, and not trying to interact with them if they don't come to me. The black kitten does seem to have realized that I am the bringer of food, and meows and takes a few tentative steps towards me when I first enter the shed (although at other times, he'll hiss at me without any of the other signs of fear or aggression, and the hisses turn into meows, not sure what that's about), but still does not want to be touched . He'll retreat to the shelter if I push it (but comes out again in a few minutes, only to repeat the cycle). The tabby more-or-less hides in the shelter when I'm around, and I can't see her interacting with me unless I try to reach in to the shelter and physically pull her out (which I don't think would end well).

I'm not really under any time constraints and can afford to work with them on their own schedule, but am concerned that the longer I wait for them to warm up to the idea of letting me touch them, the less likely it is to ever happen. I don't want to have to simply TNR them and release them back outside and hope it doesn't come to that.

ginny · Jul 10, 2016

They will learn to trust you in time but not nearly as fast as you or I want them to. As a matter of fact, I believe mine were between 8 and 12 weeks old when I started working with them. Cats take their own sweet time. Just by being around them and bringing them food and talking to them, you are socializing them. When I first started feeding mine, they wouldn't even be on the porch. I'd have to put the food down for them, go back inside, and close the blinds. If they even saw me peaking out, they would run. But slowly they started getting closer and closer till they would wait for me on the porch for their food. Finally the day came when they were all there watching me put out the food on the porch just inches away from me, and the mama kitty Gracie growled at me as if to warn me I'd better not try anything funny with her or her babies. It will happen one day. Just be patient, I know easier said than done. IIRC that was the very week that Honey let me pet her.

catwoman707 · Jul 11, 2016

First off let me say that I think it's wonderful what you are doing, all of it, not just working on and keeping the kittens but that you are motivated to TNR the others and understand that you are doing the very best thing for them and the rest of their lives, making them safer, healthier, all around better.

As you can tell, there are differeing approaches to taming, I personally have tamed countless kittens, and some adults as well, adults I have never forced and had to be very patient, but kittens I never allow them to choose, I use force.

The sooner they realize you won't hurt them and are exposed to the good things that come with being domesticated the better.

It is so much harder and longer a process to wait it out for them to come around.

Forcing them is not going to hurt them, be down on the floor and coax them with baby food on the spoon as you do, then with the other hand grab by the scruff and push down to lessen the squirming/fighting it.

Kittens, unlike adults still have the surrender instincts they were born with because mom scruffs them, so scruff and push down, make sure you have a full scruff (a good amt of neck skin for control) and wearing a sweatshirt to help protect from claws, quickly bring them to your chest/shoulder area, holding firmly against you.

You can also wear a glove if needed but the glove is more intimidating to them.

The trouble with having a pair is once you have held, talked to and touched them all over, spent time and got them to relax, when their taming session is over with and they're put back with the sibling, in a matter of minutes they are back to square 1 from feeding off of the sibs fear.

I also at this point would not give them much hiding space, exposure is another force technique. If you give them a high sided bed for instance, it helps feed their fears by feeling protected from you with a barrier, rather than them facing it and learning it doesn't hurt.

When I grab/scruff a kitten, I will wrap them in a towel tightly with only their head out, like a burrito actually. Making sure their front arms are under the towel, and don't give them any room for squirming their way out of it, this will cause them to surrender to it since they are basically helpless and know it.

After the first 10 minutes of this you will feel how much they have relaxed, so by the time you let them go, they don't fly away from you but will just slowly walk away.

2-3 sessions daily will make a dramatic difference in just a few days.

cat-nap · Jul 16, 2016

Hello! Just chiming in regards to the socialization window. I met my 4 ferals when they were about 2 months old, and used the patient approach because I didn't have the resources for and was ignorant about the active approach. They were still being raised by their mama, who left when they were 5-6 months old. They are a year and a couple months old now, still outdoors and making progress. 2 of them are comfortable with touch now, one of whom actively seeks petting and rubs. The 3rd has just started to allow me to touch her, and the 4th has just worked up the nerve to touch me. They all follow me around and run over when they hear my voice.

Reading this, I think mine would have been socialized much quicker if I used the active approach and separated mama from her kittens. I also definitely have a mixed bag with their socialization progress, which has come very or less far depending on their personalities. But at the same time, I think cats can get socialized (likely at a slower pace) after the socialization window. Especially if they are still kittens. I met mine towards the end of the window, didn't get a chance to interact with them until 12 weeks. The bolder ones started touching me at 4 months, rubbing my legs around 9 months, and getting active massages/stroking around 10 months.

Best of luck to your kitties! I think that since they're in a confined space, spending time with you, that they'll definitely come far with time.

*edited the timeline after I mapped it out XD

jassplayer · Jul 17, 2016

I have a sweet Feral cat.

IMG_1163.JPG

jassplayer
Jul 17, 2016

She hid in the basement for about nine years. Eventually she would come upstairs to eat with the other cats. One day I put a long leash on her. Then I could always get her. I made her sit with me on the couch in the evening. Now five years later she loves to be upstairs. She snuggles next to me and lets me pet her. I should have done the leash long ago! Good luck!

baar baar jinx · Jul 17, 2016

I'm grateful for the advice of everyone who's responded. The consensus seems to be that the deciding factor for "active vs passive" socialization is the kitten's age. I would estimate that my kittens are, at this point, closer to 12 weeks, and I don't think the active approach will really work anymore (and was probably already not an option when I first encountered them). The little black one is making reasonably good progress ... now he meows at me, and actually approaches me for food, and lets me pet him when he eats, although he clearly doesn't like it and will not come near me if he knows for sure I don't have any food. The tabby is still very wary, to the point where she will usually stay in her hiding place as long as I'm in the room, and runs to hide when I first enter. I have to agree with what has been stated before; the tabby is more of a negative influence on the black one than the black one being a positive. Sometimes, when he sees the tabby running, the black one runs and hides too, although he wouldn't do that otherwise. My problem now is that I need to get them to the vet for a general checkup and vaccinations, and I'm not sure how I can do that; I can probably pick the black one up and put him in the carrier, but short of retrapping the tabby in a humane trap (not an idea I relish), I don't know how I could get her in a carrier. I'm also afraid that the trauma of being forced into a carrier and then taken to the vet will set the kittens back with regards to any progress I may have made so far.

ginny · Jul 17, 2016

They are contained in a shed, right? I don't think they will be harmed by not getting to the vet for a while unless there is something urgent that can't wait. I wouldn't want to put it off indefinitely but maybe give them some more time to get adjusted to you and their surroundings and a little more trusting of you, like say a month or two?

When the time comes that you have to take them in, they will be traumatized and it'll upset you. But it's for their own good and they will get over it and trust you again, especially because you are the one who has their food!

Shane Kent · Jul 18, 2016

My cat Rusty, whom used to be feral, would go in the cat carrier himself. His sister Kitty I had to force in. She might have been upset but it wasn't for long. I call them "used to be feral" because they are no longer feral seeing they live in the building I work at. Kitty also got into the ceiling and I had to trap her to get her out, again she was a bit upset but got over it within a day or so.

I started feeding them at approx 2 months old, seen the mother last time around 3 and a half months old. Trapped them at approx 8 months old and brought them inside my workplace. Rusty has put up less of a fuss for the most part but Kitty let me pick her up before I could pick up Rusty. I trapped them May 3 and have been working on them ever since. Lots of patience and it is paying off. They are still a bit scared of people other than me but I now have them roaming the upper floor of the building during the day so that is slowly changing. Rusty plays nice, at first he would bite and scratch a little rough but now he plays nice. Kitty still on occasion gets overly excited and bites and scratches hard but that is slowly changing. I pull my hand back and say ouch when they get rough, they seem to get the hint.

At first they would dart off together into a closet in the safe room I have for them. Then gradually Kitty would still dart off but Rusty would come to me. Then eventually they both came to me. Rusty was sick when I trapped him and seemed to admire me for caring for him and he was a lot easier to tame. Kitty took about 3 weeks to start warming up to me. It has been several weeks of working on socializing them but worth every moment. The Saturday that just went by, I came in and took a nap with them for an hour or so with both of them laying on me out cold. I have their trust, now I just got to work a bit more on them trusting my co workers.

It has been 2 and a half months since I brought them in and I feel there is very little left to socializing them. However, it does feel like the last little bit takes longer then the first bit, it was somewhat easy to get them to trust me but not nearly as easy to get them to trust other people. And I am not sure if they will start over and play rough with other people or if they will play the same as they do with me. Only time will tell, well at least I have got lots of it, plenty of room in the building so I don't need to be in a hurry to get them to be social with other people.

I hope everything works out well for you. God bless you for taking care of those little kitties.

baar baar jinx · Jul 18, 2016

Your

Ginny said:
They are contained in a shed, right? I don't think they will be harmed by not getting to the vet for a while unless there is something urgent that can't wait. I wouldn't want to put it off indefinitely but maybe give them some more time to get adjusted to you and their surroundings and a little more trusting of you, like say a month or two?

When the time comes that you have to take them in, they will be traumatized and it'll upset you. But it's for their own good and they will get over it and trust you again, especially because you are the one who has their food!

Yes, they're in the shed, and your suggestion about waiting makes sense, and if they trust me more getting them into the carrier will definitely be easier (right now just thinking about it makes me anxious). But one pressing factor is that since I live alone, if I ever have to leave home even for a weekend, I'd need to hire a sitter and they would need to be vaccinated for that.

Shane Kent said:
My cat Rusty, whom used to be feral, would go in the cat carrier himself. His sister Kitty I had to force in. She might have been upset but it wasn't for long. I call them "used to be feral" because they are no longer feral seeing they live in the building I work at. Kitty also got into the ceiling and I had to trap her to get her out, again she was a bit upset but got over it within a day or so.

Your Rusty and Kitty sound like my black and tabby kittens respectively! Thanks for sharing and I hope my experience ends as well as yours did.

ginny · Jul 18, 2016

You could put the carrier in the shed with them now and see if they like to sleep in it. That way they get used to it's presence and even learn to like it for a while. Of course that'll all change once you use it to take them in, but in the meantime they can be warming up to it.

When I took Nat in to be neutered, I worried about him, as I did with all of them. I even asked for visitation. It didn't go well. He hissed at me. Even after anesthesia he seemed to remember I was the one who brought him in. But he did get over it and there were no hard feelings. Kitties tend to live in the moment.

baar baar jinx · Jul 29, 2016

An update: I bought two pet carriers and have been getting the kittens used to being in them by exclusively feeding them in the carriers. They're soft carriers with openings on both ends, and I have been able to close and zip up the carriers with the kittens inside, eating, and they hardly noticed. So, I'm hopeful I'll be able to coax them into the carriers and zip them up without too much drama the day of the vet visit, tentatively scheduled for next week. What'll happen there is another ball game altogether; I made sure the vet knew that these were ferals, and they seemed to be comfortable with that, but I have terrible visions of the kittens escaping and running all over the vet's office, unable to be recaught. I have to assume the vet knows what she's doing ...

I'm thinking that when I bring them home from the vet visit, I should just bring them straight into my apartment, which is the ultimate goal, rather than back into the shed, although they have become very accustomed to life in the shed. They can't live in my shed forever! The vet visit will be traumatic and I'm afraid we may end up having to start from scratch when they're first introduced into the apartment. The shed was always meant to be a transitional phase, though. I know cats are more attached to places than people, but hopefully they will remember me from their time in the shed and it won't be as bad as when they were brought into the shed for the first time ... they've been in the shed for almost a month. They have probably forgotten outdoor life already (I hope!). They still don't like me to pet them, but they are nowhere near as skittish as before (by the way, I now think they're actually both male; guess we'll know for sure after the vet visit).

ginny · Jul 29, 2016

Is there any way you could let them into your apartment from the shed? That way, when you bring them back there it won't be totally unknown to them. It'd be great if you could let them wander in on their own. Kitties like to explore.

I would ask the vet to tell you what will happen when you bring the kitties. Where will they go when you drop them off....will they be sedated in the cage? Etc. It'll put your mind at rest to know what happens. I understand how you feel. I was worried about mine too. They were fine.

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