Homeopathic remedies for cats - should they be banned?

More than 1000 veterinarians in the UK are calling to ban vets who offer their clients homeopathy as a treatment. They think such veterinarians should not be allowed to stay as members of the The Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...r-a-ban-on-vets-offering-homeopathic-remedies

I don't recall any organization ever taking such a clear stand against homeopathic remedies for cats (and other pets).

The article makes a good point saying that most clients don't even know what homeopathy is. It's very different from herbal remedies which can be as effective and as toxic as any medication. That's something many people don't know and in that respect, I think selling homeopathic remedies is at least somewhat misleading at times.

Would love to hear the thoughts and opinions of others in the community. Does your veterinarian sell homeopathic remedies for cats? Would you use that? If that's the case, has the vet ever told you if the remedy was tested for effectiveness or safety? Has he or she ever explained what homeopathy is and how the remedy was prepared?

I've only skimmed the article, I have to admit, but it's very interesting.

I have never been to a homeopathic vet per say, but an old family friend (who passed a few years ago now ), had trained in veterinary homeopathy some years after qualifying as a regular vet. Interestingly, she was also the first female vet in the PDSA, and the first female in that group to run her own veterinary surgery. She would never have suggested homeopathic remedies as an alternative to conventional veterinary medicine, but did use it to complement traditional treatments.

On her advice, we did use Arnica for our old lab post surgery to help deal with the pain and inflammation. All I know is that it helped in that instance - both in that she'd stop crying and settle into sleep shortly after a dose, and in that she healed faster and with less bruising than the vet expected to see in a dog of her age. (It was a very late spay - she was our first dog and we'd toyed with with idea of breeding from her :anon: - and then she developed epilepsy which made us very reluctant to subject her to a general anaesthetic. We finally spayed after phantom pregnancies became a big issue....to the point that we caught my greyhound suckling from her :jaw: ) Now, I can't say for sure that she wouldn't have healed so well or so fast without the arnica, but she definitely seemed happier with it. We didn't have painkillers for her that I remember, though I can't say why that would be the case - they do seem to be less used by our vets than some though, so maybe that's why :dk:


I think the biggest problem with homeopathy is when it is touted or pushed as an alternative to conventional treatments - especially where the owner (or patient) is told to stop all medications and other treatments prescribed by vets or doctors and rely on homeopathy alone. That is unacceptable in my view, and is often downright dangerous.

I'll never be against alternative remedies - in some cases they can be wonderful alternatives to medication, particularly in the case of targeted herbal and food based treatments - but I'm more hesitant about homeopathy than most. Having said that, we always have arnica in the house these days

From my experience and experimenting with homeopathic remedies, I found that most that actually work are herbal or sourced from plants. But, since felines don't have the enzymes to digest stuff like that, it's not likely to work. I gave a kitten to my sister in law and I was going to take him to the vet for his URI to get looked after but, she insisted on taking him. I told her that she needed to take him to the vet because homeopathic treatment wouldn't work and the URI wouldn't get better. Long story short, she didn't listen to me and it got worse; to the point where it spread to his brother and the kitten also developed a nasty eye infection which clearly makes him uncomfortable.

Aside from that, I did use oregano oil to remove tartar from Smokey's teeth which worked and it also got rid of a reoccurring worm problem she had. In this case, the oregano oil was different because instead of being absorbed in the body to treat an illness, it was cleaning her digestive tract. However, there is still a lot of grey area from how I see it because things have to be taken into consideration. For example, what kind of homeopathic remedy is it? Liquid? Oil? Pure herb?

This is just what I think. I'm not an expect; still learning about homeopathy.

I am against banning things that are not inherently harmful just because they don't agree with the current thinking of the group in power.  I have never used homeopathic remedies for my cats but I do use one for myself and it works.  Conventional medicine belongs to big pharma and is not necessarily interested in creating drug free health.  Perhaps they are trying to save animals from receiving treatments that don't work, but I think having a total ban on vets offering homeopathic remedies is a bit too judgmental.  Better they should try to work together. 

Red Top Rescue said:

 
I am against banning things that are not inherently harmful just because they don't agree with the current thinking of the group in power.  I have never used homeopathic remedies for my cats but I do use one for myself and it works.  Conventional medicine belongs to big pharma and is not necessarily interested in creating drug free health.  Perhaps they are trying to save animals from receiving treatments that don't work, but I think having a total ban on vets offering homeopathic remedies is a bit too judgmental.  Better they should try to work together. 

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Actually, most homeopathic remedies are made and marketed by the same big pharma companies that also manufacture drugs. I was surprised to see this but it's true. I once checked a very popular homeopathic flu remedy and found that the company that makes it belongs to the same company that also makes flu vaccines. So I wouldn't worry about big pharma getting too concerned with homeopathy, they corner that market quite well. In fact, it's probably far more profitable for them. Manufacturing costs are very low and the remedies are not subject to the same kind of screening and testing actual medications are 

I tend to agree a ban is way too much, by the way. I do think it's unethical of a vet to offer a homeopathic remedy without taking the time to explain what it is and that it's different from evidence-based medicine. I just don't think it's bad enough to require an outright ban.

I do agree with the explanation part.  So many times vets just DO things without explaining or even asking the client to make an educated decision, i.e. using Convenia, Metacam and Onsior at the same time (from a recent thread) which is seriously contraindicated.  Not all vets are really on top of the ramifications of new medications, which is one reason I tend to recommend hospitals that are AAHA accredited, because they require continuing education of all their vets which hopefully includes education about new medications as they come on the market.  Many vets in their own practices just don'thave the time to keep up on their own and their info comes from pharmaceutical sales people who also probably do not know all the possible drug interactions etc.  Yes, the inserts with the drugs usually include all that, but one must take the time to read and absorb them.

As far as the business side homeopathic medicine can be and often is just about making money just as conventional medicine can be.  I have serious doubts about it working for cats.  They can sometimes work or seem to work for humans either because of the placebo effect or a true mind body connection.

I don't like out and out bans though.  I do think that it would be appropriate to require vets to clearly state that they practice homeopathic medicine.  I also think that more effort should be put in to explaining exactly what it is from a contradictory point of view.  I think people in conventional medicine tend to just dismiss it as snake oil rather than actually making a real effort to explain and refute homeopathic medicine.

I've never used this homeopathic remedies or mixures for myself or my cats, but I used homeopathic pills and dillutions for both myself and my cats and it really makes wonders. If there is nothing serious, or chronic I would first try homeopathy, if it doesn't work, then I'll try conventional medicine.  One time one of my cats had a serious eye infection, we tried everything, nothing worked, finally we tried homeopathy and his infection passed in just  two days. It can't be plasebo effect on a cat right? He didn't even know I gave it to him. I also used homeopathy for two and a half week old kittens, because no other treatment can be used with cats that young. They were almost dying from fever, I was certain that they couldn't be saved but they came back from death thanks to Belladonna. 

Actually as far as I know, homeopathy is not like modern medicine, there are not homeopathic drugs targeted to cure just one spesific symptom or disease. It is a very serious practice, no real homeopath would tell you that if you have kidney disease for example, then you should use this or that product. Homeopathic treatment is arranged considering even the patient's personality and emotional state, not just the symptoms, so it's a way of therapy which is different for every patient.  Of course there are  some general active substances such as arnica for trauvma or belladonna for fever etc, but this is just a small part. And even those ones are given based  on the mood of the patient. And yes there are risks and side effects, but not as high as conventional medicine. But I'm talking about pure homeopathy, these homeopathic remedies often contain other material so they can have more side effects or risks. In homeopathy, you just have an active substance that's has been purified with water for thousands of times or more, and you mostly don't have to use it daily, you'll take one pill and it'll have an effect for weeks.

I don't think homeopathy should be the only method used when there is a serious condition, but it can be used as an effective side treatment, sometimes works even better than the conventional medicine. So I believe that banning homeopathy is really unnecessary and would be bad for all the animals who could benefit from it. 

I know that belladonna and arnica are both herbs which may or may not be used in the context of homeopathic medicine.  Herbs have found their way into conventional medicine for both humans and our companion animals but they aren't used in the context of homeopathic medicine.

The strict definition of homeopathic medicine is the idea of like cures like.  Giving a small amount of a substance that will cause the symptoms of a disease in a healthy person will cure that ailment in someone.  http://www.webmd.com/balance/guide/homeopathy-topic-overview  is a definition of it.  An example would be giving a small amount of the substance in onions that causes our eyes to water to someone with hay fever will cure their hay fever.

To me even though it is an idea that goes back thousands of years it doesn't pass the common sense test.

@Denice  yes, that's the  principle of homeopathy, only they use dilutions to the point that there's no trace of the original substance left. The water is supposed to "remember" the substance somehow. Which goes against basic physics and chemistry, let alone biology. It's definitely not thousands of years old though. It's the invention of a German doctor from the 18th century who knew zero about chemistry or germs or anything we know today. It's 100% western "medicine" too (some people think it's some exotic traditional Chinese medicine or whatever).

Actually, there have been many many studies done on homeopathy. Unfortunately, every single meta-analysis shows the exact same thing. In large scale double-blind tests, homeopathy does not help more than a placebo. In some cases, that's still better than nothing, I guess? It's still placebo + the body's self healing abilities. Never underestimate that last bit either. We have a pretty awesome immune system and so do cats. Oftentimes, people turn to homeopathy and other alternative treatments after several days or even weeks when other things didn't work and that just happens to be when the body finally pushes off the invasion. That's why the only way to know if something actually works is by large double-blind studies where you don't know if you're getting the real thing or placebo. These studies show again and again that homeopathy is no different than placebo. 

And yes, very often when homeopathy seems to be working, you end up discovering it was a herbal remedy, not diluted into non-existence. For example, the Arnica which @Columbine  mentioned, is rarely diluted in real homeopathic dilutions. Here's a good explanation about this. You end up getting  cream that has a bunch of herbal ingredients + arnica that is diluted (fortunately, as it's toxic) but not to the usual dilutions of homeopathy. There are in fact trace amounts of arnica in the cream (whereas in a regular homeopathic remedy there are none, not a single molecule). So, yes, arnica creams are probably at least somewhat effective. They are also not risk-free (it's impossible for a treatment to be effective and risk-free at the same time). They are not homeopathic per se though. Here's a good explanation of what's actually in arnica creams. 

Anyway, I am not here to bash homeopathy. I do have a problem with it when a veterinarian prescribes it to a pet without informing the owner that the remedy contains nothing but water, sugar or alcohol. In my experience, most people think homeopathy is a herbal remedy while it's not. If they knew what was actually in it (or isn't in it) I think many would have at least refused to pay the exuberant prices. It definitely should never come in lieu of evidence-based medicine either. Other than that, to each his own, is my motto. As long as you're not preventing a cat from getting actual medical care, I see no reason to ban or illegalize any form of treatment. 

This reminds me of that post a while back from the concerned roommate of a cat owner who had put her cats on "vegan" diets. She justified it by insisting it was healthy for them, and disregarding the undisputed evidence that cats are obligate carnivores and cannot survive without eating meat. This was a case of a human being trying to impose her values on animals, despite the fact that they are not applicable and it is actually dangerous to do so. And, needless to say, the cats weren't doing well on their "vegan" diet.

So it is with homeopathic "remedies." If someone wants to use it for themselves, if they want to spend their money on that stuff, then have at it. I have no problem with that. (As long as they are NOT using tiger bones, elephant tusks, or any other "traditional medicine" ingredient that is leading to the extinction of animals on this planet.)

But again, it's an odd way to anthropomorphize cats by giving them "treatments" based on bunk science that uses words like "holistic" to justify its existence. When it comes to our cats, we have a responsibility to care for them, to really care for them, and not let fads or pseudoscience get in the way.

The linked Guardian article was very clear about the research, and with so many lending their signatures to the effort to ban homeopathy, it reminds me of that fairly recent letter asking medical authorities to denounce Dr. Oz, another proponent of snake oil.

Bottom line: Do what's right by your cats!

I don't see a problem with a vet suggesting an herbal or homeopathic remedy, as long as conventional treatments are also offered and as long as the vet is honest about the evidence (or lack of same) for the alternative treatments.   I think an outright ban is a bit much but requiring that vets provide all relevant information seems reasonable.  

I do have a real problem with  homeopathic remedies based on diluting the active ingredient to the point that it's not even detectable.   I know some people swear by them but these remedies conflict with the world of science.  The idea that water will "remember" a component that has been diluted beyond detection, and that the efficacy is increased because of that dilution?  How in the world is this supposed to work?  What are the subatomic or quantum forces that cause the memory?  I'm also bothered by the fact that these remedies are often very expensive.  Because so many people here have had good results with Bach's Remedies and Spirit Essences, I sometimes mention them in posts about aggressive or overly timid cats but I always worry that I'm recommending a costly dead end.

When it comes to herbs, I think there is a real place for these in veterinary treatment, especially as medical marijuana becomes more widely available.  I have a family member who is on the tail end of terminal breast cancer.  For the last two years she found medical marijuana to be a far more effective pain killer than anything the doctors prescribed.  It's directly responsible for her maintaining a decent quality of life.  Periodically I see people post about it as a pain killer for their cats and their reports are always positive.  I do think the strains need to be standardized to minimize/eliminate the stoned feeling and maximize the pain killing ability.  I'd be very reluctant to give Chula or Paul something that would get them high.  

There is a massive difference between herbal remedies and homeopathy. I would never trust a doctor or vet who recommended homeopathy, they'd be down as a shill in my book.

Herbal remedies can be very effective but you do need to be careful with dosage and/or combinations. An aspirin has the dosage on the package but you don't know quite what you're getting with willow bark. A friend found St. John's Wort very effective but thought it was harmless, she was also on the pill. She finally read up on it and was in a blind panic until her next period! I like lavender and peppermint oils, I never found Bach remedies effective, not enough brandy for me.

What herbal remedies work for cats? Wouldn't most be either too potent or ineffective in an obligate carnivore? My two go mad over coconut oil.

When my cat had fatty liver the vet recommended a supplement called Denamarin which is a combination of milk thistle SamE.  The milk thistle in it is actually an extract of the active ingredient in milk thistle.

Anne said:

.......Actually, there have been many many studies done on homeopathy. Unfortunately, every single meta-analysis shows the exact same thing. In large scale double-blind tests, homeopathy does not help more than a placebo. In some cases, that's still better than nothing, I guess?.....

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The placebo effect has been shown to be effective only with pain and clinically insignificant or subjective outcomes. Several recent studies have been done on/around this topic, this one has generated some good dialog Deconstructing the Placebo Effect and Finding the Meaning Response Moerman and Jonas.

Placebo treatment is (generally) not acceptable/ethical in human medical practice because there is an inherent deception. Since few people go to the same level of research as you have, I believe that an inherent unethical deception exists with treatments like homeopathy. The article in the The Guardian relates the unfortunate effects of instances where care is delayed because homeopathic medicines were used first. I am afraid that any perceived or minimally effective results of homeopathy are offset by the deleterious effects of delayed or avoided care. Since animals are unable to advocate for themselves, I suspect the veterinarians are justified in their cause.

I trust my vet a lot. They have never offered me anything like that and I would question it if they did, as much as I trust them. Then again, if they threw a technical name at me I can't say I would know it was homeopathy.

"Homeopathy is a natural form of medicine" sounds very BS to me. A lot, if not most, of medicine come from natural sources. I don't mean natural in that you pick it off the tree and eat it, but plants that are refined, etc. seems like a natural source to me.

I don't believe in homeopathy and would not use a vet who did. I think there's a big difference between drugs which have synthesized forms of natural medicines and homeopathy/naturopathy. Digitalis is a good example. The synthesized version is used to treat congestive heart failure, but that doesn't mean people with CHF need to be chomping down on foxglove in their free time. Contrary to what some may say, the pharmaceutical industry DOES look to nature, and quite often; digitalis is a perfect example of this. I'm all for personal freedom, but I don't believe in frauds making money off sick and desperate people. 

Here in the US I don't think homeopathy is hugely popular, so as far as I know it's not really being used enough to warrant any kind of action against it. Europe I think is a bit different. From taking a class on French healthcare and talking to French people, I know that the French use a lot of homeopathic products. I'm not sure if there's a similar demand in Britain, but I would think if the British are in the habit of regularly buying homeopathic products for themselves they wouldn't think twice about giving them to their pets. 

I don't know exactly how the homeopathic vets in Britain operate, but I would assume that most are often prescribing homeopathic remedies in lieu of conventional or herbal medication at least some of the time, which could be detrimental to the animal, in which case I think a ban would be a good idea, because there's not a very efficient way to regulate that otherwise. And no animals would be put at risk from not being given homeopathic medicine.

I have no idea how likely it would be for the ban to actually succeed, but at the very least I'm glad it's been proposed so more people are aware of the problem!

Molly92 said:

 
I have no idea how likely it would be for the ban to actually succeed, but at the very least I'm glad it's been proposed so more people are aware of the problem!

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I totally agree. I don't think the ban is the important thing here but the proposal itself raises awareness to the issue.

I also agree with everyone who said that homeopathy is not a form of nature-derived medicine, i.e. herbalism. There is nothing natural about homeopathy. They don't even necessarily use plants in the basic preparation of the remedy. It can be pretty much anything, including some very powerful poisons. 

When that poison is properly diluted as it should be in homeopathic preparations, it virtually disappears so there's nothing left that does anything, good or bad (beyond placebo). That's basic chemistry, really.

However, one of the problems with homeopathy is when homeopaths make mistakes with the dilutions. When that happens (and remember, these products are not supervised like regular medications) that's when homeopathy becomes incredibly dangerous. There are many many documented cases of children and babies who were poisoned by homeopathic products which had not been properly diluted - 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24105354

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm230761.htm

While less of a risk in adults (because these almost always diluted enough not to contain too much poison), they can be extremely dangerous in babies and infants. In Israel, it's now illegal to sell homeopathic remedies for use in babies and children under the age of six. The guidelines were established by the Health Department following numerous cases of poisoning by homeopathic remedies.

Cats are at an even higher risk than babies or toddlers. They are usually smaller and their livers are more sensitive. Which is why I would never ever give anything homeopathic to a cat. I don't trust the manufacturers not to make mistakes and these products being entirely unsupervised, they are simply not safe enough for cats, IMHO.

Anne said:

Molly92 said:

 
I have no idea how likely it would be for the ban to actually succeed, but at the very least I'm glad it's been proposed so more people are aware of the problem!

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I totally agree. I don't think the ban is the important thing here but the proposal itself raises awareness to the issue.

I also agree with everyone who said that homeopathy is not a form of nature-derived medicine, i.e. herbalism. There is nothing natural about homeopathy. They don't even necessarily use plants in the basic preparation of the remedy. It can be pretty much anything, including some very powerful poisons. 

When that poison is properly diluted as it should be in homeopathic preparations, it virtually disappears so there's nothing left that does anything, good or bad (beyond placebo). That's basic chemistry, really.

However, one of the problems with homeopathy is when homeopaths make mistakes with the dilutions. When that happens (and remember, these products are not supervised like regular medications) that's when homeopathy becomes incredibly dangerous. There are many many documented cases of children and babies who were poisoned by homeopathic products which had not been properly diluted - 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24105354
http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm230761.htm

While less of a risk in adults (because these almost always diluted enough not to contain too much poison), they can be extremely dangerous in babies and infants. In Israel, it's now illegal to sell homeopathic remedies for use in babies and children under the age of six. The guidelines were established by the Health Department following numerous cases of poisoning by homeopathic remedies.

Cats are at an even higher risk than babies or toddlers. They are usually smaller and their livers are more sensitive. Which is why I would never ever give anything homeopathic to a cat. I don't trust the manufacturers not to make mistakes and these products being entirely unsupervised, they are simply not safe enough for cats, IMHO.

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:jaw: I had absolutely no idea about that Anne! I'll definitely never use homeopathic arnica tablets on my firkids again :uuh: Thank you so, so much for that info. :bigthumb: