Urgent... found 6, 2 days old kittens.. how can I help??

catwoman707

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Excellent news!! Great looking little fur pile too!

No, mom will not move them as long as she continues to have her privacy. She will be grateful; for the food and water now too, she doesn't want to leave those babes unguarded but had to for her own survival.

So this is very good.

Once a day just quietly go down there, you can talk as a warning signal to her that you are coming, she will stash herself someplace while you are leaving the food and water, don't try looking for her anymore than maybe glancing about, she's there.

I would carry on a conversation with yourself in a calm voice, so she gets used to your non threatening voice.

Soon enough she will secretly look forward to the times when you come, it means food is coming :)

As long as nobody goes down where she is at, she will have to deal with the excess walking around your house above her.

I mean, unless you have some serious dancing going on! haha

She'll be fine.
 
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sunnykew

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@catwoman707  I hear you but will she be comfortable with me over a period of time considering that she was otherwise super scared of me because of the trapping her episode a couple of months ago? 

About the guests at home. We do have a small room in the basement which gets used at such times.. and because there will be quite a few people at home.. there will be some movement around the basement too... kids playing, car/bike movements etc? That could be make her uncomfortable... But there is still 8 days to that.. I am hoping these next 8 days I am able to provide for her so that she should not be fearful of the environment.

When do you think it is ok to trap for spaying... I dont want to do that before the kittens are old enough for her to be gone for a some time?
 

catwoman707

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@catwoman707  I hear you but will she be comfortable with me over a period of time considering that she was otherwise super scared of me because of the trapping her episode a couple of months ago? 

About the guests at home. We do have a small room in the basement which gets used at such times.. and because there will be quite a few people at home.. there will be some movement around the basement too... kids playing, car/bike movements etc? That could be make her uncomfortable... But there is still 8 days to that.. I am hoping these next 8 days I am able to provide for her so that she should not be fearful of the environment.

When do you think it is ok to trap for spaying... I dont want to do that before the kittens are old enough for her to be gone for a some time?
Even a cat who has never been around people will become trusting and get somewhat comfortable around you in time, so her fear now is just the lack of human interaction.

You said she meowed while on your car at you? See, a true feral would never do that. They are completely silent around humans. In time she will gain trust, but not soon enough that in 8 days she will be okay with all the commotion down there, and I think she will either try moving them or she will stay away herself, maybe only coming at night while it's silent, which is no good for the kits.

It's too bad there wasn't a way to get her in to a large crate with her babies, then stashed in a closet or another non busy spot, that way too when it's time to get her spayed she will be fairly easy to get.

I would aim for when her kits are a good 5 weeks old to get her spayed. About that time is when they will eat themselves and won't need to be nursing.

But we will see how things go until that time too.
 
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sunnykew

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@catwoman707 .. hope that she does find the trust in me. If she stays away all day only to return at night could be quite dangerous for the kittens..I'm assuming in another 8 days they will be over 2 weeks old, which means they should be pretty active walking around and could come out the closet and hurt themselves..

Yes she meowed at me not once but almost three times and then jumped and hid under the car, I am sure she is very inexperienced as she is a kitten herself.

Do you think it will be a good idea of I was to make a large crate or even a cage and put the babies in it while I keep the food and water and keep the crate in the closet, will this disturb her and will need touching the kids bother her? By keeping the kittens in the cage with some food she should get comfortable with the cage itself and it could be easier for me to trap her in the cage when it's time to get her spayed?

I think in 5 weeks she should be comfortable with me and I will make sure that even when there is commotion we don't intrude her privacy..
 

catwoman707

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@catwoman707 .. hope that she does find the trust in me. If she stays away all day only to return at night could be quite dangerous for the kittens..I'm assuming in another 8 days they will be over 2 weeks old, which means they should be pretty active walking around and could come out the closet and hurt themselves..

Yes she meowed at me not once but almost three times and then jumped and hid under the car, I am sure she is very inexperienced as she is a kitten herself.

Do you think it will be a good idea of I was to make a large crate or even a cage and put the babies in it while I keep the food and water and keep the crate in the closet, will this disturb her and will need touching the kids bother her? By keeping the kittens in the cage with some food she should get comfortable with the cage itself and it could be easier for me to trap her in the cage when it's time to get her spayed?

I think in 5 weeks she should be comfortable with me and I will make sure that even when there is commotion we don't intrude her privacy..
Well if you put her kittens in a cage she may not like that and take them out, and often times this means random kittens here and there, since she doesn't know an alternative spot. This is why it's important to allow her to decide where she keeps them.

In 8 days they will barely be 2 weeks old, and while they will surely be scooting around more, they won't actually be walking around yet, not until about 3 weeks old.

Not sure what the question is about "need touching the kids bother her?"

Do you mean will it bother her if the kids touch the kittens? YES. Kids are high strung and spunky, noisy and fast movements, this is hard on an indoor, fully tame mom let alone a scared, young feral mom.
 
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sunnykew

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Oh I meant will it bother her if I touch the kittens (in case I put them in the crate while she is away) coz if I touch them my scent will be over them right?
 

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It's fine if you touch the kittens :)
   It is good for the kittens to begin taming as soon as possible. MamaKitty may give subsonic growls that only they can hear & they will hiss and fuss a bit, but eventually, they will look forward to your scratches & pets. I have even had feral moms become more tame just by looking at the kittens getting "lovings". Bless you & your household for caring for the little cat family.....you are wonderful 
 
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sunnykew

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Thank you catsknowme catsknowme

So this morning, I did as suggested.. while walking to the basement I announced myself to the mother before I went down and then went after about 1t mins.. she had left ( i am not sure if she was there in the first place, might have left even before I came down the first time).

I then picked up the little kittens one by one and placed them on a woolen cloth ( it's pretty cold here cause of the rains these days) and the moment I picked them up they started to meow loudly. And once I placed them on the blanket and kept them back where they were they started to move around in all possible directions, I kept them back in the blanket and placed the food and water in the closet and closed the door, this brings me to a few questions

1) I thought that they were 7-8 days old - the kittens eyes were opened and they were meowing loudly.. can such small kittens make so much noise? Am I getting their age wrong?

2) with all the noise they made - will the mother cat try and relocate them? And since the kittens started moving around. I don't know what's the scene down there in the closet - whether they are comfy and cozy on the blanket or restless?

3) with all the noise they made - when I got back home, my house cat looked at me and knew that there is something happening - she started rubbing me instantly and meowing for attention which lasted almost 20 mins. Now I find this strange coz after food she does not bother getting any attention and just lays around grooming herself preparing to take a nap - is it possible that she heard the kittens, saw me taking food and water down and this makes her insecure?

This has been a whole new experience for me and I really want to make sure all kittens make it - a little correction there are 5 kittens and not 6 as I initially thought..

Here are some pics from this morning


 

catsknowme

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 Such cuties!!! The woolen blanket is an excellent idea, but ideally, the blanket should be in a box or a basket which keeps the babies contained. Since they are so young, I'd put them in a box with a hole cut out - cats like caves & cave-like places for their little ones. Yes, they are tinies & even newborns can mew really loud. I have rescued newborns during snowstorms because they were vocal enough for me to hear them over the winds. 

Also, the mama kitty wont like having the food too close because the scent of food will attract predators (even indoors, she will be vigilant against "predators" such as yourself & your housecat). Using a box will eliminate that problem, if there is only a small area, because the babies will be kept apart from the food.

If the babies are crying because they are cold, you can put rice into an old sock, tie the end shut and heat it in the microwave. Just be VERY careful that the rice isn't too hot and also place it to one side so the little ones (and mama cat) can get away from it when they get too warm. At this age, they still cannot generate their own heat and if they aren't comfortable, they will get restless. Another reason for restlessness is that they "need their diaper changed" - i.e. they need to be stimulated to go to the bathroom. An outstanding website is www.kitten-rescue.com - there is excellent advice on all issues about caring for kittens. 

I really like your enthusiasm - you are giving those kittens a rare opportunity for a good life! And thank you so much for the pix - I finally got my feral colonies all spayed/neutered so this is my first year since 2008 without kittens to raise. Mind you, I am not complaining....just enjoying the kitties that I have, but, oh, "tinies" can be so rewarding! Susan
 
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sunnykew

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@catsknowme There isnt enough space for me to place a crate, the babies were left by the mother on a plastic gunny sack and they were all curled up. I thought a blanket would be better. 

But I will try and figure out if I can get them in some sort of closed space.. do you think placing them in a cat carrier will be ok? will the mama cat be comfortable with it. I think that way we can have the carrier facing one side and the food and water on the other

I understand that the smell of the food will attract other predators but the the hole is way too small for anyone to enter except the mother who is a small kitten herself. My house cat does not go outside anymore so no threat there but I am sure she senses them but is ok and not restless

I guess I will till tomorrow to see how they are holding up and plan the next step.. 

one thing that cats have taught me is patience, I want to make sure all kittens make it and I am able to get all of them including the mother spayed/neutered. 
 
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sunnykew

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I checked in on them this morning, the mother this time was inside with the kittens this time.looking at me she instantly tried to hide herself somewhere in the closet.

I put it in some food and water and let her be with the kittens..

Looks like now that she is getting food and water she is not going out anywhere and also it's raining here big time, I am sure this will help her.

But is it ok for us to put food and water while she is in the closet? She looked frightened when we opened the closet door

Should I place a carrier in the closet and put the kittens inside the carrier while she is away, making the carrier warm and a cozy place for all? This way she could get comfortable with the carrier?

The babies seem to be doing fine..some had eyes open and some closed..cute little things
 

catwoman707

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I checked in on them this morning, the mother this time was inside with the kittens this time.looking at me she instantly tried to hide herself somewhere in the closet.

I put it in some food and water and let her be with the kittens..

Looks like now that she is getting food and water she is not going out anywhere and also it's raining here big time, I am sure this will help her.

But is it ok for us to put food and water while she is in the closet? She looked frightened when we opened the closet door

Should I place a carrier in the closet and put the kittens inside the carrier while she is away, making the carrier warm and a cozy place for all? This way she could get comfortable with the carrier?

The babies seem to be doing fine..some had eyes open and some closed..cute little things
It sounds, despite her young age, that she is being a good, attentive mom, be thankful for that!! It's a crazy amt of time and effort to take over a litter when a mom is unable or won't care for them.

Uncommon but does happen, usually in young moms only, cats are known for their excellent nurturing/maternal instincts.

If you can leave her food and water just outside of the wardrobe this is best.

I would also add (outside of the closet and not near her food) a large open litterbox, then she can eliminate without leaving as well, and you won't find random potty on the floor.

Great news! They must be a good 10 days or so now if some eyes are opening.

Isn't that the cutest thing when you see those little black looking eyes looking back at you?! I love it!  
 
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sunnykew

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catwoman707 catwoman707 they are cutest little things I have ever seen..

I don't think I can leave the food and water outside the closet as there are many feral crossing by, it will attract them and I am worried they might want to harm the kittens.

The mother is getting more and more comfortable with us placing the food and water, although she still hides but now it's more like just ducking her head and not her body (how cute)

This morning, since she was not there, I got the opportunity to check all the kittens.. I am surprised to see all 5 of them being males.. is this normal? I hope I am checking them correctly... I was also so surprised to see that these 10 day old kittens are already hissing and spitting... what instincts... putting up a pic of one of them
 

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Sweet little things! I think it's a good idea that you handle them now. They will all have to be neutered in the future, it will be much easier to get them to the vet if you can pick them up and put them in a carrier rather than having to trap them. If Mum trusts you they will too, they'll soon learn that you bring them food. One way to get the whole family used to your scent is to get a couple of old towels, cover your pillow with them while you sleep and then put the food and water dishes on the spread out towel when you feed them. Put down a different towel every day so that your scent is always strong.

Are you happy to have them all stay around your place or do you want to re-home some of them?
 
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sunnykew

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Norachan Norachan

I plan to re-home them. I might keep one with me, my house cat is already feeling insecure, she knows something is going on in the basement.

Have a few who are ready to adopt some of them. I hope I don't need to trap them while getting them neutered.

Have some folks coming over to stay for a couple of weeks.. I might not be able to handle the kittens at that time otherwise I would have brought them home and spent more time handling them so that they get comfortable.

But spaying the mom becomes very important, as I don't want her to carry around another litter till these babies grow older. Although she is not running away from the closet she is skittish and I am not trying to touch her or handle her yet.. let her more comfortable with me visiting her a couple of times a day..

I can see that the kittens don't like me holding them.. I marvel at the instincts these little things have.. there is so much I am getting to learn in this process...

I wish I could keep them all..
 
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catwoman707

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What a doll! The color is so unique, almost like brown/tan color, this one will have beautiful colors!

Okay so mom seems to be adapting to you putting the food in there, which is of course the best way since others would have access if outside the closet.

Anytime you leave food and mom is not present, definitely hold each baby, touch everywhere, etc.

This will help, although I want to tell you that when they start to wean, about 4 weeks, hopefully by 5 weeks they are all able to eat canned pate from a shallow dish, it is then that they will need to be pulled from mom.

Yes, it is young, but it is okay, in situations like this where their future is at stake, meaning at 4-5 weeks they will tame in a matter of hours, less than 1 day of holding, carrying around, etc.

Rather than waiting, because beginning at 6 weeks until 8 weeks, their mental development and instincts become ingrained permanently. If you don't take that feral way out of them before then, despite them eventually taming to one person or one family, they will always have that shyness and feral streak in them around strangers, the rest of their lives.

That hissing/spitting, well don't be intimidated, a 4-5 week old kitten will back away and do this, but not be aggressive at all, so all you do is grab by their scruff (neck skin) and pick up, and hold them against you. If they are very squirmy and carrying on, use a small towel and wrap around them snugly, in a matter of a few hours they will be fine.

By this time I hope that you are able to go down and spend some time with them, actually before that, mom should have become trusting of you by then, fingers crossed.

It would be best for their adopters to take home by 6 weeks old, as long as they know how to care for them, it is much simpler to tame when they are alone too. 

You can spend time holding and feeding a kitten, and it becomes so relaxed and made great progress, but as soon as you put them back with their siblings who still have that fear, they pick it right back up so back to square 1.

I would say that in a couple more days, they will be about 2 weeks old, so base their age on that.

As far as determining the sex, at this age the females will also seem to have little bumps, this is just swelling, but will appear to be male, but if you compare them to each other, you might notice a difference in distance between the anus under the tail and the next "hole", males have about twice the distance between the 2 as females. Maybe this will help, but then again you just may have all boys!  
 

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I agree with catwoman707. If you have people willing to take the kittens it would be better to bring them in away from their mother early than you normally would. The more you can handle them the better. It's so much easier for the kittens to settle into their new homes if they've had plenty of positive human interaction.

The mother may go into heat again as soon as her kittens are weaned. Maybe you could make some plans to spay her when they're about 4 weeks old? If she only has one way in and out of the cupboard she's living in you could set the trap up right outside the hole in the door she leaves from. Hopefully it won't be too difficult.
 

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  What a beautiful kitten that you are holding! It sounds like things are going very well and mama kitty is beginning to trust you. How cute how she tries to hide by putting her head out of sight - I have seen bears do that. I was pleased to read that you are handling the kittens - the sooner the better. It wont hurt if you daily bring one inside with you(for a short time) and give it a little formula (I use the "kitten glop" recipe from www.kitten-rescue.com). They usually balk at plastic nipples so I order the FourPaws with rubber nipples. You could also try offering the kittens a drink, there at their nest - they need to associate you with food. It is so cute when they hiss & spit - I always love seeing the courage and spunk of even the tiniest of kittens (just be aware of those tiny but viciously sharp teeth & claws).  And thank you for the updates - they mean a lot to the rest of us here at TCS!
 
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sunnykew

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It's been a while since posted and updated on the situation. Well as I had imagined.. with so many folks coming over it would be difficult to keep a track of the mother and her kittens but I did manage to keep putting in the food labels.. even though I could not spend a lot of time down there. But over the past few days I have been spending a lot of time down there and I can say that I have gained a lot of trust from the mother and the kittens.. mommy cat is still a skittish but I was able to pet her and even lift her and put her on my lap for a short while.. she is really weak as I could feel her ribs completely while I held.. perhaps I need to increase the food quantity.. she started to purr so loudly.. it melted my heart..

The little ones are growing and they look so cute.. they were all over me..already associating me with food..I am still a little confused about their sexes.. even though I have a cat at home I am unable to say whether they are all males or a mix.. I think they look like all males.. I shall perhaps put up some pics and you all can guide me..

All 5 are doing great.. already coming out of their closet on their own.. curious little fellas.. but that worries me coz mommy does go away some times and these guys come out to play.. I still have some guests at home and I do not have any empty room where I can keep all of them safely..

Clicked some pics of some of them.. attaching some of them... If I am right they are about 4 weeks old now.. I guess good time to put them away from mommy. They are very well able to eat mince meat and chicken and like you said can be tamed in hours.. I will need to find interested adopters who are willing..

I wish I could keep them all.. love them

I have named them too

1) Feisty - makes cute little sounds while eating..
2) smoothy - fur so soft and smooth leather.. pretty much white..
3) quitey- doesn't make much noise.. super peaceful
4) jumpy - jumps all the time.. so cute
5) sweety- the one with the limp.. Looks a lot like my house cat..


 
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