buprenorphine

colbey · Jun 20, 2016

i read another thread on this (from a few years ago). my cat (Blue) has been diagnosed...well, i guess with pancreatitis. i think that's more a "not sure what else it is," although an ultrasound showed the pancreas was inflamed (i think). anyway, she wasn't eating well and her breath had gotten AWFUL, so i finally found a new vet (we moved) and took her in, figuring she had a bad tooth/teeth. nope; her teeth are just fine. but the vet felt hardness in her abdomen and an x-ray showed she was FULL-UP Constipated. we came home with lactalose and mirtazipine. the mirtazipine didn't seem to be boosting her appetite at all (and had some unwanted side effects), so i stopped that quickly. the lactalose seemed to help after several days. but she still wasn't eating.

took her back in the next week, and she got an enema. they said she was pretty cleaned out, and we came home with more of the lactalose and prednisone. she still seemed constipated to me, and the pred wasn't helping her eat more either. i was in pretty close contact with the vet during all this, but we ended up going about 4 days with her eating almost nothing. then, on monday, i dropped her off at the vet clinic. she would have an ultrasound the next day, and they would be able to syringe-feed her (and get SOMETHING in her).

they did syringe-feed her, a couple times a day (after the ultrasound), and she also was eating at night there. she came back home thursday with just buprenorphine.

the vet said she thinks it's helping her be able to eat--that she's in so much pain from the pancreatitis she won't eat. she HAS an appetite--she is always asking me for food/gets excited when i get up/etc. but when i put something down (no matter what it is), often she just sniffs it and walks away. usually she'll (eventually) like up any gravy/sauce that's there. (she also has hard food available all the time. and the last thing she ate before stopping entirely were Temptations treats.)

buprenorphine is .2ml, every 12 hours, "as needed." the invoice says 10 syringes, but there were only 7 in the bag, and the tech said i should probably give it at least thru the weekend. (because i questioned how i would know when it was "needed.") she's about 9 pounds. and i think she's about 4 now. maybe 5.

all that's just background, because usually if i just go right to my question on a forum, i get all kinds of questions. (and possibly will here anyway, lol.)

the biggest problem (other than Blue not feeling well and not eating) is that i CANNOT get the medicine in her. before--the 2 other times we came home with meds, i pretty much got the stuff in her for about 3 days. then she figured out what to do so i couldn't any more. both times. and when she was at the clinic those days, when i picked her up, i asked if they'd been able to clean the lactalose off her chest and neck, and the techs said they'd gotten most of it. when i asked if they might, you know, get the rest of it, they said, "well, she doesn't like us to touch her any more." hmm...yup, it'd been 3 days.

i have experience with cats and meds. i had a CRF kitty for a year, and there've been others, so i'm okay with pilling; the SQ fluids weren't a problem; i'd even syringe-fed my CRF girl a few times. but with Blue--no go. i usually can't scruff her. if i DO, she doesn't go limp. at all. i think she has a trauma (body-trauma, maybe) because when she showed up outside, we at first thought she was wearing a white collar. several days later, when she let us get close enough to really see, she was NOT wearing a collar but obviously had been because the fur was completely worn off in a perfect collar shape all the way around her neck. it's the best thing i can come up with for why she's so difficult when being scruffed.

since i thought of that, i've tried very hard NOT to scruff her to give her the meds. but that makes it very difficult for both of us, and, as i said, i can do it about 3 days, then she figures out a way to avoid it.

with the buprenorphine....okay, when they said i needed to squirt it under her tongue, i actually laughed, and said, "you're kidding right?" no, they weren't. so we came home with me pretty much knowing i was going to be a complete failure at this. and i have been. i've managed to "give" her 2 doses, and i guarantee you, they were NOT sublingual. so....i don't think they can have had much effect at all? she's not eating much. again. she ate the first night; a bit the next day; then mostly stopped again.

i guess my question is--is there SOME OTHER WAY TO GIVE CATS MEDS?? the only thing i can think of is having a port put in until we get thru this. that doesn't seem the best either, but i don't know what else there is. this is, supposedly, going to be a temporary thing, until she feels better and starts eating again. we've got new food for her (which she will eat, when she's eating) that the vet believes will help make sure the pancreatitis (or whatever) doesn't come back. but we've got to GET there.

so far, sending us home with sublingual meds is the only bone-headed thing the vet has done. because she's been apprised, all along, of my difficulties getting meds in Blue. now, on monday again, i'm going to have send an email, telling how i failed to give her the medicine and she's basically not eaten all weekend again. full disclosure--i have a disability that makes taking Blue to the clinic very difficult. so, i can't just pop in there twice a day for them to dose her (and that wouldn't be 12 hours apart anyway).

does anyone have any suggestions???

sorry this is so long.

foxxycat · Jun 20, 2016

squirting into the cheek of the mouth is fine-the bupre gets absorbed via bloodvessels in the mouth. so even ON the tongue is just as fine. The syringe count is off then I would call them and tell them they shorted you out.

Yes pancreatic issues can cause this much discomfort. Try to stay away from fishy foods=I just recently found out fish agrivates it. I have been able to get fancy feast turkey and giblets in my elder kitty instead of tuna. For years that's all she would eat. but we finally came to an understanding that no more fish. I would stick with chicken/turkey or duck/rabbit to see if it helps.

sniffing the food and walking away is nausea. They should have given you Cerenia or Zofran. You can call and ask about Pepcid as well. They have injectable Pepcid but I think you already know about that if you had a ckd kitty.

what about meat babyfood? Ham is my cats fav. They go NUTS for it.

I need to reread your issues=I just quick scanned to give you some advice.

foxxycat · Jun 20, 2016

also bupre slows down the digestive track. did they talk to you about Miralax instead of lactulose? you can also try canned pumpkin for the constipation. The cat could be painful because the colon/digestive tract was so full of poop that it probably hurt moving through and caused gas. Sometimes gas causes just as much discomfort. Since they can't talk to us I can only guess.

Try 1 teaspoon of plain canned pumpkin mixed in wet food. if your cat is finicky you can see if they will lick it off your finger or a spoon. I have 3 cats. 1 loves it=follows me around to eat it-the other 2 hate it. so we use Miralax for the other two cats. one of the 2 cats will eat it only if its fresh opened can but I have to really struggle with her to lick it. If I add it to food she wont touch it. the other cat I can smear it on the roof of her mouth-she doesn't like it-but this cat lets me do anything to her-she is a vets dream kitty for procedures and poking/prods. So you can try any of these methods.

Pumpkin takes about 12 hours to work. I found one cat needs 2 tsp a day and the other only 1/2 tsp a day. its really individual. but the cat that needs 2 tsp is on inhaled steroids so I think it dries out everything anyways so that could be why.

I would call and ask about nausea-sometimes theres no rhyme or reason for nausea-but being constipated makes a kitty feel really lousy. Good that you are trying to help and resolve the issue. My problem in my house is we feed kibble and been fighting for 3 years to stop kibble. two out of 3 will eat canned but the one cat only eats tuna and kibble. she will not eat pumpkin, babyfood, steak, chicken, pork, turkey etc,. she loves shrimps. and that is IT. shes my middle kitty who lived on mice for a decade-the other day she caught one and we left her alone to eat it. I don't like it but I did try raw food with her-nope. she didn't want anything to do with it. fussy cats drive me INSANE!

pushylady · Jun 20, 2016

My friend has an elderly cat called Hobbes who is on bupre. I've had to give it to her a number of times while cat sitting. I was apprehensive because she's always been very unfriendly to me, but in her old age she's actually mellowed a little and I can touch her now. She would only let me touch her for an short time and was unpredictable, so I always had to be very quick about it. Anyways, my point is, I was able to get the syringe squirted into her mouth. Ideally it was to be spread evenly along her gums, and I did my best, but if wouldn't always be even. But it helped, and I think with your cat it would be fine too, if you can just get it into her mouth - more under tongue and along the gum line rather than squirting in so she swallows it or spits it out. Sneaking up while she's sleeping worked for me.
Good luck with Blue.

foxxycat · Jun 20, 2016

you can slip the syringe inside the corner of her mouth and squirt upwards onto the gums/cheek pocket. you don't have to open the mouth like pills-just a finger to lift the side lip up and squirt it in.

maggiemay · Jun 20, 2016

I give Buprenex into the inside of the cheek, where it's absorbed by the buccal cells. Corner of mouth, squirt towards the top of the mouth. It's such a teeny amount, either .01 or .02 ml per dose for my four if they need it. The thing about Bupe is that you don't want them to swallow it or it's inefffective. It doesn't go down the throat, but in the side of cheek/gums or across the tongue. Don't worry about getting it under her tongue. I normally give medication to mine when no one is at home to help me, and I do NOT scruff my cats. You can either wrap her up in the burrito shape or do as I do. I have the meds ready to go, put the cat on the carpet nearby and straddle the cat, making sure to cover the front paws with my knees and lower my bottom to prevent them from wiggling out backwards. This way, I have both hands free, one to hold the cat's head and one to squirt the medication inside the cheek. This is simply the fastest, easiest way for me to give mine liquid meds. I'm fairly small and flexible, so I know I won't hurt the cat even if I sit on it, although that has never happened in years of doing this. Another suggestion is to purchase a cat restraint bag such as this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cat-Groomin...hash=item33b0a5aada:m:mkDxpdOp7tL72-7rxslEM1A

There are You Tube videos showing how to wrap your cat into a burrito-type towel or blanket. I'm sure if this is pancreatitis, which I have had myself, that your girl is in a LOT of pain. I agree with @foxxycat that she's showing signs of nausea as well - wanting food and then just licking it and walking away is a classic sign. You may need a second opinion from another vet (I don't know that I'm convinced the mass seen on ultrasound was simply feces) or you may need to find a vet who comes to your home. I know it's frustrating to try to help an animal that is fighting that help, but if she goes without eating for 2-4 days, she could develop fatty liver easily. She very much needs your help. Baby food (I use Gerber 2nd-no onions used), cat milk, an appetite stimulant other than mirtazipine, some EnerCal or NutriCal gels which contain calories, vitamins and minerals - lots of things you can do to entice her to eat or at least to get some nutrients in her. You may have to isolate her in a small room when it's time for meds. I also add miralax and pumpkin for constipation, but if she isn't eating, you're still left with the same problem. If all else fails, take her to the vet and leave her until they know exactly what is wrong with her and she is eating on her own. I wish you and Blue the best.

pushylady · Jun 20, 2016

foxxycat said:
you can slip the syringe inside the corner of her mouth and squirt upwards onto the gums/cheek pocket. you don't have to open the mouth like pills-just a finger to lift the side lip up and squirt it in.

colbey · Jun 20, 2016

thank you both for your replies! i'll try to answer any questions presented.

Yes pancreatic issues can cause this much discomfort.

thanks for that confirmation. because it does seem weird/was something i was wondering--how painful is an inflamed pancreas? and i agree that even just being as constipated as she was would have to be VERY uncomfortable/painful. i never noticed she had gas. it was mostly her breath, which, after seeing the x-rays, i now think was actually...gas or just the smell in general coming back up her digestive tract. poor thing.

i have actually been taking pictures of every BM, and trying to keep track of everything in a document. i know the lactalose started to work when her stool wasn't nearly rock hard--when it...had an ending taper (sorry to be gross), and i could actually push the scooper into it. sometimes it almost looked like diarrhea. but just a tiny bit each time. and this was when she was still completely backed up, so that was strange in itself. after the first 3-4 days of lactalose, i really thought she'd turned a corner, because she was pooping more, it was softer/near diarrhea. then she stopped eating. the first time. the vet wanted to do an ultrasound the first visit, but nothing could have been seen except...poop, at that point. so the enema was the next step. and she got some SQ fluids that day.

sniffing the food and walking away is nausea. I would call and ask about nausea-sometimes theres no rhyme or reason for nausea-but being constipated makes a kitty feel really lousy.

i did finally figure that out. a few years back, i lost my appetite for awhile. later, i would get hungry, yet not be able to eat. that's when i figured out what "appetite" really meant, lol. and realized how awful it is to have an appetite, yet not be "able" to eat. so i watched Blue for a day, and decided she definitely WAS hungry and WANTED to eat....but just couldn't. for some reason that i didn't understand. when i explained it to the vet, she said "that's nausea." so....the vet knows about it.

the fact that most of the time she would eat the treats, and she would lick up any 'gravy,' let me know that a few things were still enticing enough to beat the nausea. so i tried everything. real ("organic") tuna - no. (all the cats used to get a bit of real tuna every so often as a treat; she loved it then.) Fancy Feast pate - no. every flavor of Fancy Feast - only the cheesy stuff (the gravy of it). a few of the expensive "good" foods - no. (to be fair, after we moved i tried to get her off FF and eating something better, and she really didn't like any of them then either.) canned pumpkin - not at all (and i did also try mixing it in some other canned food). some tube of cat vitamin goop - no. Gerbers 2nd Foods Meat & Gravy, beef, turkey, chicken, ham - no, no, no, no. the Royal Canin Recovery canned food - no.

now, she would actually eat a tiny bit of each of those. the first time. preferably it would have gravy/sauce, though.

thanks for the info about the fishy foods and the pancreas. good to know. i usually rotate in a fish flavor every so often (back when she was eating) because even then, she could be a bit finicky and seemed to get tired of the others.

They should have given you Cerenia or Zofran. ...ask about Pepcid as well. bupre slows down the digestive track. did they talk to you about Miralax instead of lactulose?

interesting. i didn't read that about the bupre (tried to research it this weekend). the vet did tell me that the pred did...something to the digestive tract. i'd thought that was just to boost her appetite (that was what they told me with my CRF kitty). oh, Tarzana (CRF) was never on Pepcid, so i didn't know that either. the vet hasn't mentioned anything other than what she's given us. is Miralax so sticky??

i sometimes could get Tarzana to eat if i sat with her and hand-fed her, or dabbed a bit on her nose/lips. i tried that with Blue. well, i was going to try to syringe-feed her, but i got just one tiny squirt in. but that was enough for her to finish up the 2 small-ish syringes i had there--by licking up a bit out of the palm of my hand every time i put a bit more there. but that only worked one time.

eating mice! i'd let her, if she'd eat one! (she used to catch/kill chipmunks at our last place. but never ate them.) i've always thought they should make mice-flavored cat food and treats.

I think with your cat it would be fine too, if you can just get it into her mouth - more under tongue and along the gum line rather than squirting in so she swallows it or spits it out. Sneaking up while she's sleeping worked for me.

you can slip the syringe inside the corner of her mouth and squirt upwards onto the gums/cheek pocket. you don't have to open the mouth like pills-just a finger to lift the side lip up and squirt it in.

okay, try to picture this. we're both on the floor; she's between my legs, which are opened at the knees just enough for her to fit and then scissored closed at the feet so she can't squirt out that way. 1 or both of my elbows are on the floor; 1 hand has the syringe; the other is TRYING to hold her head still (without scruffing her). after we go thru all the possible moves--squirt backwards, squirt forwards, lunge forward left, then right--we're pretty much in position. i'm hunched down as much as possible, but this still leaves a good 8" of lateral room in which she can move her head. one hand can do nothing, because it's holding the syringe. the other hand can only stop head movement in 1, possibly 2, directions at one time. this means there is always at least 2 directions in which she can move her head to keep the tip of the syringe away from her mouth. oh...and let's not forget that one of us has now tensed up every muscle in her neck so scruffing is no longer possible, AND, one of us has clamped her mouth shut so tight there's no way to slide the end of the syringe in.

for Tarzana, there was a spot at both sides of her mouth, where you could push a finger (or syringe) in, and she would open her mouth and....POP, the pill is in and gone. Blue does not seem to have any such spot. when...somehow (i can't even tell you how it happens)...her mouth opens long enough for me to get the syringe in, her tongue is always down and there is no 'cheek pouch,' nor would i have the time to aim for it.

so....i'm pretty sure she's just swallowing the bupre rather quickly.

i just gave her another dose before writing this up. next time, i'll try to...slip the syringe inside the corner of her mouth. but i'm almost positive i've tried that (because i used to have to do that with Tarzana sometimes). but Blue has tensed up everything--including her lips. i know i sound pathetic, lol. sometimes i think, "well, when she gets sick enough, i guess she won't be able to fight it as much and then i'll be able to get the meds in her." and that's a horrible thing to think.

but yes....i need to let the vet know there were only 7 syringes, and that she's not eating again. (i'm assuming there were 10, but they used 3 of them at the clinic. there was a separate bupre charge on the invoice, for a different amount, so that must have been first, then they set up the 10 syringes.) oh, the vet had given her a shot for anti-nausea. Cerenia Injectable, .5ml. there's the Cerenia. but just one shot while at the clinic.

foxxycat · Jun 20, 2016

try having kitty in the corner of the couch with you above-kitty back to back of couch-and maybe you will save on your back.

I have a cat tree that looks like a tree and is 2" high-I put them on this "tree" which is in the kitchen where the corners of the counter are=so both sides blocked-I use my legs to keep cat in and I don't have to scruff either. Maybe you can move an end table into the kitchen to get cat up higher. some people have better luck up high on the kitchen counter. Some put them on the arm of the sofa. I also have given meds on top of the toilet-lid closed=those carpet thingies you put on the toilet cover so they don't slide off. One cat loves this toilet seat perch when I shower. lately she hasn't been coming in to drink out of the faucet. hmmm.. another thing I keep trying to pay attention to=cats and their habits.

try giving half of the liquid in the syringe and let her swallow=maybe doing it in smaller amounts? what about giving it when kitty is sleeping? Ive had good luck with this for flea meds.

keep trying.

kittens mom · Jun 20, 2016

colbey said:
i read another thread on this (from a few years ago). my cat (Blue) has been diagnosed...well, i guess with pancreatitis. i think that's more a "not sure what else it is," although an ultrasound showed the pancreas was inflamed (i think). anyway, she wasn't eating well and her breath had gotten AWFUL, so i finally found a new vet (we moved) and took her in, figuring she had a bad tooth/teeth. nope; her teeth are just fine. but the vet felt hardness in her abdomen and an x-ray showed she was FULL-UP Constipated. we came home with lactalose and mirtazipine. the mirtazipine didn't seem to be boosting her appetite at all (and had some unwanted side effects), so i stopped that quickly. the lactalose seemed to help after several days. but she still wasn't eating.

took her back in the next week, and she got an enema. they said she was pretty cleaned out, and we came home with more of the lactalose and prednisone. she still seemed constipated to me, and the pred wasn't helping her eat more either. i was in pretty close contact with the vet during all this, but we ended up going about 4 days with her eating almost nothing. then, on monday, i dropped her off at the vet clinic. she would have an ultrasound the next day, and they would be able to syringe-feed her (and get SOMETHING in her).

they did syringe-feed her, a couple times a day (after the ultrasound), and she also was eating at night there. she came back home thursday with just buprenorphine.

the vet said she thinks it's helping her be able to eat--that she's in so much pain from the pancreatitis she won't eat. she HAS an appetite--she is always asking me for food/gets excited when i get up/etc. but when i put something down (no matter what it is), often she just sniffs it and walks away. usually she'll (eventually) like up any gravy/sauce that's there. (she also has hard food available all the time. and the last thing she ate before stopping entirely were Temptations treats.)

buprenorphine is .2ml, every 12 hours, "as needed." the invoice says 10 syringes, but there were only 7 in the bag, and the tech said i should probably give it at least thru the weekend. (because i questioned how i would know when it was "needed.") she's about 9 pounds. and i think she's about 4 now. maybe 5.

all that's just background, because usually if i just go right to my question on a forum, i get all kinds of questions. (and possibly will here anyway, lol.)

the biggest problem (other than Blue not feeling well and not eating) is that i CANNOT get the medicine in her. before--the 2 other times we came home with meds, i pretty much got the stuff in her for about 3 days. then she figured out what to do so i couldn't any more. both times. and when she was at the clinic those days, when i picked her up, i asked if they'd been able to clean the lactalose off her chest and neck, and the techs said they'd gotten most of it. when i asked if they might, you know, get the rest of it, they said, "well, she doesn't like us to touch her any more." hmm...yup, it'd been 3 days.

i have experience with cats and meds. i had a CRF kitty for a year, and there've been others, so i'm okay with pilling; the SQ fluids weren't a problem; i'd even syringe-fed my CRF girl a few times. but with Blue--no go. i usually can't scruff her. if i DO, she doesn't go limp. at all. i think she has a trauma (body-trauma, maybe) because when she showed up outside, we at first thought she was wearing a white collar. several days later, when she let us get close enough to really see, she was NOT wearing a collar but obviously had been because the fur was completely worn off in a perfect collar shape all the way around her neck. it's the best thing i can come up with for why she's so difficult when being scruffed.

since i thought of that, i've tried very hard NOT to scruff her to give her the meds. but that makes it very difficult for both of us, and, as i said, i can do it about 3 days, then she figures out a way to avoid it.

with the buprenorphine....okay, when they said i needed to squirt it under her tongue, i actually laughed, and said, "you're kidding right?" no, they weren't. so we came home with me pretty much knowing i was going to be a complete failure at this. and i have been. i've managed to "give" her 2 doses, and i guarantee you, they were NOT sublingual. so....i don't think they can have had much effect at all? she's not eating much. again. she ate the first night; a bit the next day; then mostly stopped again.

i guess my question is--is there SOME OTHER WAY TO GIVE CATS MEDS?? the only thing i can think of is having a port put in until we get thru this. that doesn't seem the best either, but i don't know what else there is. this is, supposedly, going to be a temporary thing, until she feels better and starts eating again. we've got new food for her (which she will eat, when she's eating) that the vet believes will help make sure the pancreatitis (or whatever) doesn't come back. but we've got to GET there.

so far, sending us home with sublingual meds is the only bone-headed thing the vet has done. because she's been apprised, all along, of my difficulties getting meds in Blue. now, on monday again, i'm going to have send an email, telling how i failed to give her the medicine and she's basically not eaten all weekend again. full disclosure--i have a disability that makes taking Blue to the clinic very difficult. so, i can't just pop in there twice a day for them to dose her (and that wouldn't be 12 hours apart anyway).

does anyone have any suggestions???

sorry this is so long.

I was told it only had to touch the mucus membranes in the mouth.

maggiemay · Jun 20, 2016

colbey said:
okay, try to picture this. we're both on the floor; she's between my legs, which are opened at the knees just enough for her to fit and then scissored closed at the feet so she can't squirt out that way. 1 or both of my elbows are on the floor; 1 hand has the syringe; the other is TRYING to hold her head still (without scruffing her). after we go thru all the possible moves--squirt backwards, squirt forwards, lunge forward left, then right--we're pretty much in position. i'm hunched down as much as possible, but this still leaves a good 8" of lateral room in which she can move her head. one hand can do nothing, because it's holding the syringe. the other hand can only stop head movement in 1, possibly 2, directions at one time. this means there is always at least 2 directions in which she can move her head to keep the tip of the syringe away from her mouth. oh...and let's not forget that one of us has now tensed up every muscle in her neck so scruffing is no longer possible, AND, one of us has clamped her mouth shut so tight there's no way to slide the end of the syringe in.

I am sorry, but I cannot help but laugh at your description. I've been there far too many times myself not to know exactly what you are describing. But here are a couple of differences that I noted. First of all, I never have an elbow on the floor. I'm trying to picture how that could work. lol I always swoop in from above. Also, I have the syringe held with my index finger, middle finger and thumb, leaving my little finger and ring finger free to help out. That allows me to hold the cat's head against my leg with one hand, lift the back corner of the lip with my little finger and/or ring finger, quickly insert the tip of the Buprenex syringe and plunge the meds in across the tongue or up to the gums.

Blue sounds like quite a formidable adversary and a very tough cookie where meds are concerned, and I honestly think that buying a cat restraint bag is your best bet. She has to have help and she's fighting you so very hard. She will take her emotional cue from you as well, and if you're exhausted, frustrated and tense (and who wouldn't be after going a few rounds with Blue), she will be feeling all of those things as well. I have a semi-feral boy (indoor only since I adopted him two years ago) who had a urinary blockage in January. The only way I was able to get him into the carrier was that the poor thing was so sick he could barely move. My vet was able to save him and he spent five nights in the hospital. Up until the time I put him in the carrier to take him to the vet, he had never allowed more than one hand on him at a time, even when he came to me to be petted. Two hands were never ever allowed.

When I brought him home from the hospital, he had just had his IV removed and I was supposed to leave that tight bandage on his leg for another hour. I immediately thought, as he rushed from the carrier, that I had just made a huge mistake and would never be able to use both hands to get that bandage off. He was shut into a room, but anyone who has ever dealt with a terrified half-wild animal will realize that gave me little hope. And so I did the only thing I could think of. I talked to him. Not in baby-talk; I talked to him as an adult. I told him what had happened to him, why he had to have help from the vet, that I came and got him and brought him back because this is his home, will always be his home, and we love him very much. And then I told him that if he would allow me to take that bandage off, his leg would feel so much better and he could walk perfectly again. Do you know that smart boy sat there listening, huge green eyes staring into mine as I talked, cocked his head, and raised his paw up to me? I reached over, took the bandage off, and that was that. From that day on, it was like he realized how much I love him and that I saved his life. He can still be spooked, but he is so much more relaxed and far more trusting than ever before. And he now allows two hands on him at once. So perhaps talking to her will do you some good. I will be following your adventures closely and am wishing both of you much luck.

colbey · Jun 20, 2016

I am sorry, but I cannot help but laugh at your description. I've been there far too many times myself not to know exactly what you are describing.

lol - actually, i wrote it that way figuring anyone with any experience with that "method" would laugh! i'm going to try your idea of pressing her head against my leg...but i think i've probably tried that, because it seems rather obvious. my elbows are, eventually, on the floor--after the squirting and lunging because that's the only way i can make a space small enough to contain her at all. and i've tried to use my syringe hand to help, but i don't seem able to. maybe my hands are too small but i don't seem able to use the last 2 fingers to pry up her lip and still keep my index finger on the plunger. (2 times ago, the syringe plunger refused to go down after i'd gotten the tip in her mouth...twice. THAT was fun.) and her latest trick is to, somehow, after i've got the tip in her mouth, jerk her head just as i push the plunger. yes, the timing required for her to do that is astounding, but that is how she ended up with the very sticky lactalose all down her front and side of her neck.

i know it sounds like...i've never done any of this, but i really have and this little girl is SUCH a fighter about this. not ever about anything else, but just this. i'm a 'troubleshooter,' and i swear she is, too, which is why after 3 days or so, she's come up with a new way to foil me, lol.

i'd heard of those "restraint" bags before-with Tarzana (CRF) kitty. my mom even offered to sew me one for her, but she was so good about getting her SQ fluids. i don't have a sofa, sadly. i don't really have any furniture, but i've tried it when she's in her bed, which is elevated on boxes. (there was a sofa at our last place, and that's how i would trim nails--using a sofa or chair arm to help. that worked good with one of the siamese kitties, but, of course, it only worked a couple times with Blue, lol.)

i've tried giving her meds on my bed, which ends up pretty much the same as being on the floor. it doesn't hurt my back. it doesn't hurt me at all. other than....spiritually, i guess. i AM frustrated, because, as so many of you know, it's so hard to watch them hurting. but i do try not to let that...be there, when we're doing meds. i don't raise my voice, and i try to set aside any frustration i'm feeling before i even start, because i know she's very sensitive to me. (i was crying a few weeks ago about her lost 'brother,' and she came up on the bed, sat next to me, and reached out a paw and put it on my leg while looking up at me. she has this thing of looking directly into my eyes. of course, that made me cry harder for just a bit.)

i'm going to look up some of the youtube videos about wrapping her up. i've thought about that/wondered if there was some way. i might end up trying a restraint bag, but...dam, that seems like it might be traumatic, too. i do like the idea of using a corner of the walls to help, and will try to figure out something around that here.

the vet answered me email from earlier, and said i could get the bupre as a SQ injectable, if i think i can do that. my instinct is to say, "yes," because i had no problems with 'sticking' Tarzana 2-3 times a day. but...this is Blue. oh, i have tried to sneak up on her when she's sleeping...doesn't work. half the time, if i've managed to get 2-3 doses in her in a near 12-hour pattern, she starts hiding /sleeping in her "sheltered" spots after about 11 hours!

MaggieMay--your story about your half-feral boy made me cry. that was Blue's 'brother.' yes, i talk to them. before i moved (and my parents moved), i talked to one of the cats for months before the move. she was going to go with my parents and they were worried about traveling/driving with her for 2 days. i explained to her what was going to happen, and that it would seem pretty awful for 2 days, but she'd be okay, it wouldn't hurt, she'd be safe, and after 2 days, she'd have a brand new home where she'd be happy...and Blue wouldn't be there. (for some reason, Blue and her didn't get along, and the poor thing was very, very anxious all the time.) she was a very high-strung kitty, but my parents said they put her in her carrier, put her and the other siamese (in her own carrier) in the back seat, and she never made a sound or fussed the whole trip.

so i TOTALLY believe that your boy was listening, in their way, and he responded.

heck, years ago, a roommate and i resorted to spelling words like v-e-t, because otherwise the 3 cats always knew when they were going for a checkup and they'd all hide.

again, THANK YOU ALL!

i won't give up on her. (yes, that is her in my icon. in her before-i-was-mostly-an-inside-kitty year. looking in my basement bedroom window, kinda miffed that i hadn't yet gone and opened it for her.)

maggiemay · Jun 20, 2016

Oh I laughed out loud for quite a while at your description. SO funny! New cat owners have NO idea that they are about to become not only cat slaves, but sooner or later, cat wranglers as well as cat wrestlers.

They are so intelligent, and even the smallest cat is very strong and fast and as slippery as an eel when it wants to be. Some cats are easy to give medication to and some will do everything possible to thwart you. If you are owned by one of those, you have to get highly creative. You sound like a wonderful mom to these babies, very intuitive. Blue is a little beauty. I do hope she calms down somewhat because she obviously needs her meds.

foxxycat · Jun 21, 2016

I meant the cat tree is 2 feet high=not 2 inches.

colbey · Jun 24, 2016

I meant the cat tree is 2 feet high=not 2 inches.

LOL! i actually hadn't even noticed that when i read your post!

buprenorphine

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kittens mom

Kittens life was lost to a negligent veterinarian.

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