What breeds could be in my kittens ancestory

I just adopted two kittens out of the same litter. They are just 8 weeks old. They weren't taken very good care off. They had flaes and mites and didn't get proper kitten food. And the owner insisted I take them with 8 weeks. (She preferred 7 weeks). Her daughter knew that I was looking for kittens and ask me to take two because she knew her mother would otherwise keep them and there are allready too many cats in the house and she doesn't take them to the vets even if they are wounded. Her daughter is trying to get all the cats spayed and neutered and taken care off.
Sorry for the long intro but I know kittens should stay with their mom longer and I would get comments on that. And excuse my language mistakes but I'm Dutch.

The mother told me father of the mother was a Maine Coon and the mother a Siamese. The mother looks like a regular black and white domestic housecat but she had an interesting litter. I am now wondering if there are indeed decended from a Maine Coon and a Siamese. And hoe would you would call the coror of the male who is Cream/white/grey.
Here are some pictures.



Thanks! Eva

Welcome to TCS!   I can't answer your questions about your kittens' ancestry but wanted to tell you how totally adorable they are.  Bless you for agreeing to adopt both of them - it sounds like their living situation was pretty grim.  Two cats will keep each other company, too.  Your English is perfectly fine, by the way, but no need to worry.  This is an international site and even some of us native English speakers don't always get it right!  I hope we see and hear lots more about your kittens as they grow.  They're going to be beautiful, that much is clear.  What are their names? 

Their names are Milo (the multicolored male) and Maya (the dark grey and white female). And I think they are beautiful too

I will return in the evening, but I can tell immediately the multi is a point bi-color.   So both momma and dad must have been carriers of the point gene.

Thank you StephanZ. Dad.is completely unknown. Mom lives mostly outside. The dad could have easily been a brother of the mother or even one of the kittens from a previous litter. I know that wouldn't be good but I'm clueless about breeding cats. I have just owned domestic housecata usually adopted from a shelter.

Eva

With out papers you will never know for sure, but one thing I do know, they are absolutely beautiful! Little Milo looks to me to have some Himalayan in him.He will most likely keep his blue eyes too, I am very particular to grey and whites too, you don't see them often. All the luck!

Thank you Di and Bob. I also think Milo will keep his blue eyes. The color of his sister and brothers eyes have allready changed. But most important they are both sweet kittens and are getting less scared and more affectionate each day :love:

Eva

Eva69 said:

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• eva69
• Jun 20, 2016

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• eva69
• Jun 20, 2016

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• eva69
• Jun 20, 2016

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• eva69
• Jun 20, 2016

Thanks! Eva

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Eva69 said:

Thank you StephanZ. Dad.is completely unknown. Mom lives mostly outside. The dad could have easily been a brother of the mother or even one of the kittens from a previous litter. I know that wouldn't be good but I'm clueless about breeding cats. I have just owned domestic housecata usually adopted from a shelter.

Eva

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OK, so momma is a black and white tuxedo.  We really dont know much about her parents. Most probably one was just biggish and longhaired, the other was a point. At least one of them had white spots, that we know.

Both long fur and point are recessive, so momma become neither.

Her kittens got her colors - black, white spots, and grey, which is diluted black.   We dont know for sure the looks of the biological dad - but probably he was similiar to momma.  We know he is not tabby - because tabby is dominant.  We know he is a carrier of the point gene.  So your guess he has the same momma (grandma to our hero) is quite probable...

OK, our hero, the multi.   He is "simply" a point  and white.  Or point bi-color, as many says.  (point = siamese mix would some say).   And yes, because he is point, he will remain blue eyes.

the creme is the natural color of points.  His point color is blue = diluted black - seen as grey.   And he has lotsa of white yes.

The only real riddle is, if he is kitten fuzzy but really shorthair as his littermates, or if he will end as medium-hair.     We know he has almost surely the longhair  gene (he could get it from both momma and daddy), and possibly even doubled.

This we will see with time.   (medium hair is genetically the same as longhair gene).

But. As the statistics tells one of four kittens should be a point in this situation, the same statistic says one should be a longhair.  And as I can see, none of the littermates is longhaired.  Thus, the responsibility to make the statistics become true falls heavy upon our hero.

There is normally no near connection between point and longhair, so this is pure coincidence they probably met in the same individual.

ps.  If he turns out as medium or longhair, you will be able to compare him to a ragdoll bi-color.

StefanZ said:

ps.  If he turns out as medium or longhair, you will be able to compare him to a ragdoll bi-color.

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Thank you so much for all the information. I looked at pictures and thought he looked like a ragdoll. Now there is another medium or longhair in the the litter. One of the white and black kittens has the same coat as my bi-color. The others have really different short coats.

My kitten was born white/creme. The points developed later. Another brother was born black with white legs. Now his legs are more dark grey with a little white mixed in there. Like the tail of my bi-color. From what you've told me and what I have read he also is a point?

One more question (sorry I have a lot!). Should I worry about my kittens health because their parents were probably brother and sister?

Thans again for all the information. I think cats genetics are very interesting.

Eva

Eva69 said:

Thank you so much for all the information. I looked at pictures and thought he looked like a ragdoll. Now there is another medium or longhair in the the litter. One of the white and black kittens has the same coat as my bi-color. The others have really different short coats.

My kitten was born white/creme. The points developed later. Another brother was born black with white legs. Now his legs are more dark grey with a little white mixed in there. Like the tail of my bi-color. From what you've told me and what I have read he also is a point?

One more question (sorry I have a lot!). Should I worry about my kittens health because their parents were probably brother and sister?

Thans again for all the information. I think cats genetics are very interesting.

Eva

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The statistics arent ironclad. So it may be some variation in an individual litter.  Taken per 10.000  it is quite exact, but not down in the indivudial litter...

Yes, points are born whitish. And their pointed parts darken up after a week or two.  The rest of the body may / will darken too, but it will take more time, and not be as complete.

I dont know what it is with the brother.   It COULD be he is a combination of a siamese and burmanese point. They do darken up quicker. But they are rare...  Do you have pics on him?

Cats manage some inbreeding.  So in practice there are seldom real problems.  but yes, the probability for problems does increase.  The most common and visible problem is, they are getting smaller in size, and get smaller litters... "inbreeding depression".

So, have your eyes open, but dont worry too much. Statistics are heavily with you.

StefanZ said:

The statistics arent ironclad. So it may be some variation in an individual litter.  Taken per 10.000  it is quite exact, but not down in the indivudial litter...

Yes, points are born whitish. And their pointed parts darken up after a week or two.  The rest of the body may / will darken too, but it will take more time, and not be as complete.
I dont know what it is with the brother.   It COULD be he is a combination of a siamese and burmanese point. They do darken up quicker. But they are rare...  Do you have pics on him?

Cats manage some inbreeding.  So in practice there are seldom real problems.  but yes, the probability for problems does increase.  The most common and visible problem is, they are getting smaller in size, and get smaller litters... "inbreeding depression".
So, have your eyes open, but dont worry too much. Statistics are heavily with you.

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I don't have a clear picture of the brother. Here are some:

By the way the litter originally had 7 kittens. The owner didn't stay with mom throughout the birth. Unfortunately the mother cat decided to move the first two kittens and have the rest of her babies in a big box full of balls of yarn. The owner later found them and there where two dead kittens mixed in with the yarn. Of course no way to tell how they died.

StefanZ said:

The statistics arent ironclad. So it may be some variation in an individual litter.  Taken per 10.000  it is quite exact, but not down in the indivudial litter...

Yes, points are born whitish. And their pointed parts darken up after a week or two.  The rest of the body may / will darken too, but it will take more time, and not be as complete.
I dont know what it is with the brother.   It COULD be he is a combination of a siamese and burmanese point. They do darken up quicker. But they are rare...  Do you have pics on him?

Cats manage some inbreeding.  So in practice there are seldom real problems.  but yes, the probability for problems does increase.  The most common and visible problem is, they are getting smaller in size, and get smaller litters... "inbreeding depression".
So, have your eyes open, but dont worry too much. Statistics are heavily with you.

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Here you can see better what I'm talking about about his legs. The are different from the rest of his coat. His paws are white. And most off his body is black but his legs are different.

I see now.       the only I can say for sure, he is NOT such a siamese / burmanese point mix.  This is something else.  What, I dont know.

but we had recently two different treads where black borne kittens got white areas.   Here we see the opposite phenomen.   Apparently it can change somewhat.

StefanZ said:

I see now.       the only I can say for sure, he is NOT such a siamese / burmanese point mix.  This is something else.  What, I dont know.

but we had recently two different treads where black borne kittens got white areas.   Here we see the opposite phenomen.   Apparently it can change somewhat.

Click to expand...

Thank you for all the info and advice!

Eva