How to tell when kittens are getting enough from the nipple?

ps. Otherwise, its quite common mommas, perhaps after an emergency spaying, continue to nurse their kittens, sometimes even the same day.  So it by itself is OK.

Here we do have this complication of her licking up the wounds and the wound liquid is out...

Perhaps if the vet agrees on gluing again the wound, yes that could be an idea.

can you try a baby onsie shirt? Some people have had better luck with this than the "cone" you could trim the material in the front so her belly is exposed to nurse but the incision is covered so she wont lick, there are also soft collars for this. some petcos and etc have them. there is also one that is inflatable. you blow it up after its on her-it is softer and wont poke into the babies. I called around at different vets when my cat had a surgery-they sent home with that cone and she went insane. she got out of it no matter how hard I tie it- I worried it would hurt her neck. I eventually found a soft collar at another vets office. but it also was not a good solution as she figured out how to back up and get out of it = but I used to fold it over and she was ok but I feared she would get hung up under the bed-we spent two days in the bathroom waiting for the wound to get better-the vet went overboard with this but I didn't want her licking. it was a sleepless two days.

I found pictures here: http://forums.webmd.com/3/pet-health-exchange/forum/2288

maybe this is an option?

StefanZ said:

 
Tricky.   What Im afraid, is the danger if they lick in this wound fluids - if they get infected.  And there is surely some bacteria and other nasty stuff, perhaps a little pus.

We could even get a peculiar poisoning we can see occasionally - the  biggest kittens collapes and dies.  Why?  The biggest kittens gets most of that infected milk...

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Oh god I didn't even think of this... the mother is still on antibiotics, but they end today. If the kittens died after all the work so far that's gone into keeping them alive and the present success that would be so gutting.... 

Her ears are pretty normal temp and paws are too, but her stomach is quite hot. Obv the torso would be warmer anyway but could this be a sign of an infection starting? Or just the milk production etc and everything normal that's going on? Should I demand more antibiotics from the vet? She said yest she'd rather not, as obviously my cat has been through a lot, but on balance surely some more antibiotics to prevent infection would be better than the infection itself.

On the plus side my cat did basically leave the cut alone for four or five days so hopefully it got some healing done - and it's only the outer glue seal that she's opened, the inner stitches are still intact. Obviously I really don't want her licking them though! 

foxxycat said:

 
can you try a baby onsie shirt? Some people have had better luck with this than the "cone" you could trim the material in the front so her belly is exposed to nurse but the incision is covered so she wont lick, there are also soft collars for this. some petcos and etc have them. there is also one that is inflatable. you blow it up after its on her-it is softer and wont poke into the babies. I called around at different vets when my cat had a surgery-they sent home with that cone and she went insane. she got out of it no matter how hard I tie it- I worried it would hurt her neck. I eventually found a soft collar at another vets office. but it also was not a good solution as she figured out how to back up and get out of it = but I used to fold it over and she was ok but I feared she would get hung up under the bed-we spent two days in the bathroom waiting for the wound to get better-the vet went overboard with this but I didn't want her licking. it was a sleepless two days.

I found pictures here: http://forums.webmd.com/3/pet-health-exchange/forum/2288

maybe this is an option?

Click to expand...

Thank you! Yes, am considering this - others suggested tights too (if I can't find a baby onesie nearby so quickly) again with holes in them. I feel that prob onesie fabric will be more breathable though for the wound? Tights tend to exacerbate bacteria growth more, from what I've read...

[Also does anyone have some disinfectant advice? I really feel I ought to clean it a bit before I put anything over it, not least because the kittens have been rubbing their grubby little paws all around it too] EDIT - have since realised prob salt water is best and safest!

aclmmb

I would keep her on antibiotics.

Also, begin applying olive oil or Udder Balm to the incision area. She may be licking it because it feels tight or itchy. A non-toxic oil or balm may offer relief.

Since she has internal stitches she will likely be fine. It will heal even more over the next week.

I agree the cone is a problem with the kittens and cannot be used. I'm also glad to hear that her milk production has increased.

Since the mom is on antibiotics the kittens will probably be OK - they will get some antibiotic too as it comes out in the milk. But it is obviously essential to be watchful for any changes.

Agreed. Kittens are receiving antibiotics through mom's milk, which is a good thing! [emoji]128077[/emoji]

Hi all, and thanks again for all your help! The babies are doing well, growing and feisty and looking pretty healthy - boy is 325g-ish, girl 240g-ish! So both well over the two-week weight mark Xanadu is also back to normal, takes breaks from feeding and cuddling them to play and thunder around the house in the middle of the night again so think she's feeling much better. Somehow, through all the fevers and operations and hand feeding nothing has gone fatally wrong, and I'm beginning to feel a little more relaxed about all their prospects - while still keeping a careful eye on them!

One more question - I've looked through other threads on here about fleas and am I right that Dawn detergent (in a few weeks when they can deal with a bath a bit better), flea combs and food grade diatomaceous earth are my best bets at this point? Unfortunately realising Xana was pregnant coincided with when her usual de-fleaing would have happened, so obviously I didn't do the spot-on, and now it's the start of summer and with it uber-flea season...

I also have tablets I'll give to her (safe for nursing cats) - when I do though, should I remove the babies for a bit? Otherwise I'm concerned the fleas on Xana (of which there may be many by this point - she has quite long fur and always seems to have such flea issues) will all just hop off onto the kittens... at one point their gums were a bit grey, which I barely noted as I was so concerned with everything else, but there's another potentially fatal situation they've somehow avoided! So I don't want a repeat of that now, when they're much pinker and happier looking.

Of course, the tablets do kill the fleas, so maybe they wouldn't bother trying to find new food sources?

Also, the tablets only deal with fleas alive right now - does the diatomaceous earth kill larvae etc as well, or also only hatched adults? Should I repeat the d earth and Dawn process every week or so for...a month? Several months? 

For the future in general, my cat has had increasingly bad reactions to spot-on flea treatment, so I'm increasingly reluctant to use it anyway. She sort of spasms a bit and gets very, very upset for days, freaking out and racing round - mainly I'm concerned about damaging her nervous system or organs in some way, the involuntary jerks and spasms that happen do not look normal. She really picks up fleas though - not a problem so much in winter when it's cold, but in summer it ends up being such an issue that I need all the effective help I can get... 

**********

One day old!


A week and a half:


Two weeks

aclmmb

Which tablets are you planning to give mom?

Also, what topical flea treatments have you used that caused that reaction in your cat?

sarthur2 said:

@aclmmb

Which tablets are you planning to give mom?

Also, what topical flea treatments have you used that caused that reaction in your cat?

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Johnsons 4fleas - I checked and they claim they're ok for nursing queens?

And Advantage 40 spot-on for small cats and rabbits. Worked a treat in terms of efficacy! But don't think I can put her through it any more...

Have you ever tried Advantage II for cats? It's made by Bayer. It was prescription-only at one time, but can now be purchased online, at pet stores, or from your vet without a prescription. It's a more costly, but highly effective topical. I have used it without negative effects for more than 20 years.

Products like the one you used frequently cause severe bad reactions in cats. If it ever happens again, bathe your cat immediately with Dawn to get the product off the skin.

I would not give the tablet to her at all while she is nursing, and if you do, use a prescription Capstar pill from your vet.

However, a tube of Advantage on her neck now will keep fleas off her kittens as well. You can flea comb the kittens now too if they have fleas. Flea anemia is very dangerous.

sarthur2 said:

Have you ever tried Advantage II for cats? It's made by Bayer. It was prescription-only at one time, but can now be purchased online, at pet stores, or from your vet without a prescription. It's a more costly, but highly effective topical. I have used it without negative effects for more than 20 years.

Products like the one you used frequently cause severe bad reactions in cats. If it ever happens again, bathe your cat immediately with Dawn to get the product off the skin.

I would not give the tablet to her at all while she is nursing, and if you do, use a prescription Capstar pill from your vet.

However, a tube of Advantage on her neck now will keep fleas off her kittens as well. You can flea comb the kittens now too if they have fleas. Flea anemia is very dangerous.

Click to expand...

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think the active ingredient in Advantage II and Advantage 40 is the same? Advantage 40 is also Bayer and used to be prescription-only, as far as I remember. They both contain Imidacloprid in a spot-on, and I think if my cat has shown a sensitivity to Imidacloprid probably it's best for me to avoid it... there is a big price differential though; I wish there was more explanation about why that is. I'm assuming it's for the additional physical element that kills fleas on touch but maybe the Imidacloprid in Advantage II is also deployed more safely in some way?

I mean, maybe Xana is just making a big fuss about nothing, but some of the effects read too much like the list of severe symptoms they can get from Imidacloprid, eg borderline seizures and trembling etc, for me to want to risk it.

I'm anxious about the flea anaemia now, the little girl does have very pale skin through her fur - maybe I should wash them. Or is there anything I can supplement them/her with til my other options arrive in the post? Some people also mention lavender; I have some here already, is that safe to rub on the kittens?

Do the kittens actually have fleas on them?

You should begin combing the kittens and mom every day with a flea comb now. Do not wait on that. You can dip the comb in dish soap to kill them.

I don't have advice for what to use on mom, but you should certainly be combing the kittens and washing their bedding every day now. It can get very serious very quickly.

Are you in UK?

It looks like Advantage 40 is the UK version of Advantage II. Clearly your cat is allergic to it. I suggest you consult your vet about what to use.

If the kittens have fleas you'll need to flea comb them now.

Ahh thank you all, only just saw these replies! Been a busy four weeks... have been some dramas since (Hero fell and had a seizure from hitting her head!) but glad to say the kittens are both fine, bouncing around chasing each other constantly at the moment.

I used a flea pill from the vet that killed everything on them (and is OK from 2 weeks supposedly!) and have been combing etc. About to use pills again now they're six weeks, but wondered what everyone uses in their house re sprays etc? I see that the main ones - Acclaim etc - claim to be safe once dried, but surely they could get on kitten paws (esp if damp) and be licked off? I may not have much choice though as I rent this place so can't pull up the landlord's carpets etc as I'd like, & fleas are so tenacious!

Hero has also been having some blood in her poos the last 24 hours, very red and fresh, but I did just worm them... Leander has nothing in his though, they're fine and firm (hers are a bit runny). Thinking maybe it's digestive & I should put her back on sweet potato (hard to find pumpkins here!) & chicken as she originally was... he's fed up with that and wants proper kitten food, but can always feed them separately! She's otherwise bright eyed and playing, eating, drinking normally so I'm not too worried.