Please help Floyd: 7 months of bloody poop and vomit, still no ideas!

mingsmongols

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Im gonna suggest something a little extreme. A complete reset of his digestive tract. If its not working right for him then replace the key component. Its called FMT. Or fecal microboita transplant. Mammals are more bacteria then anything else. 10 microorganisms for every one cell. A lack or die off of the right gut flora can have devastating results for the digestive tract. FMT is the process of taking poop containing an active flourishing gut flora from a healthy cat and injecting it into the others colon or digestive track. The new gut flora will quickly reproduce and take over the digestive track of the sick cat thereby completely replacing the key component to a healthy digestive system. Its fda approved in humans for treatment of cdiff but has been very successfully used 'off label' with one to three treatments to treat a variety of digestive disorders such as IBS. Id talk to your vet and see if its a viable option.

https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/fecal-microbiota-transplantation/

http://www.drmartybecker.com/veterinary-medicine/medicine-crap/

http://felinefecaltransplant.blogspot.com/

http://pictures-of-cats.org/treatin...se-with-fecal-microbiota-transplantation.html
 
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red top rescue

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I would ask the vet to try a round of prednisolone while he is having symptoms.  IBD is very difficult to diagnose, often it is a diagnoses of elimination.  

Was he on the same food when he got sick again recently?  My IBD kitty went through flares very similar to your kitty's and they also started when he was younger than most kitties that develop IBD.

If the pred doesn't help then I would try a raw or homecooked diet.  Bengals are pretty notorious for having difficulty with highly processed foods.  If he is cycling back into being sick without a change in diet it could well be IBD.  I never did find a dietary trigger for my IBD kitty's flares.  
 
Ah ok,  I agree with everything @denise  said.  Prednisolone could very well help, and a home cooked diet would also be a good idea.  I might try the diet first, then the Pred. 
Thanks Denice and StephenQ, I will look into prednisolone! We had him on a few medications before but stopped when we didn't notice an improvement, and because I've never seen a cat put up such a fight to anything. We were away and had a catsitter giving him antibiotics daily at one point, and everytime the catsitter picked him up Floyd would poop on him in protest 
. He hasn't done this to me though, so pred could be an option!
If he's a bear to pill with the prednisolone, others have had excellent outcomes with depo-medrol which is also a steroid but it is long acting and injectable, so they get one shot and it stays in their system for about a month.  I have a cat with seasonal allergies and it works wonders on him.  He usually gets one shot in fall and another in spring, as the seasons change, something sets him off and the depo-medrol clears it right up.
 

thekittykeepers

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The "gut flora transplant" made me think of something, which I can't believe I didn't think of sooner. Have you tried pro-biotics? There are many forms of this digestive supercomputer that has worked well for us in the past. It has been invaluable to us, many times. I can't say for certain if it was the cure for their illnesses, since it was used in conjunction with other dietary changes and supplements, but I am sure it was helpful in combating some of the digestive problems we have faced in the past.

Anyway, keep us posted, sincerely, the kittykeepers.
 

JMJimmy

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Before you go on to probiotics, prednisolone, or the extreme of GFT there's a simple question you need to ask:

 Where is the blood coming from?

Blood does not come from the intestinal tract itself.  It either comes from the stomach or an organ, in which case you see blood in the vomit and/or tar like stool.  The other option is the anal sacs or hemorrhoids which will show up exclusively in the stool as bright red.  It's bright because it doesn't pass through the intestinal tract as it's released directly into the colon.   External hemorrhoids you can be seen and the vet would pick up on it right away, internal hemorrhoids or problems with the anal sacs are another possibility.

Now, because of how you've worded it it's not clear if he's vomiting blood or not.  I'm going to assume not.  In which case we need to tease out what else might be going on

It's been a couple weeks/a month since he's been fixed?  You can see a dramatic change in behaviour due to that.  Our Junior literally went from being inexhaustible & playful one day to calm and observant the next. 

So what's left?  Pain & vomiting.  Anal issues can cause pain, especially around the time of a bowel movement and especially if your cat is trying to avoid that pain by not going to the bathroom as much.  This can cause them to become backed up and they'll vomit their food because they've got too much in their system.  Normally I would suggest going to an all-wet food diet but obviously he doesn't react well to that so the next best thing is to go to a raw food diet.  Withhold food for 24 hours then start feeding fresh chicken (not fish, and NOT frozen, cooked, or 'tumbled' chicken - these remove the natural water).  This should result in a softer stool that will be easier to pass.  It won't resolve the blood in the stool, if I'm right, that just takes time to heal and hard stools or impacted stool (when he tries to hold it in) will worsen the problem (meaning the internal hemorrhoids get re-opened - so he can be fine for weeks/months and then suddenly have it re-occur). 

If the vomiting doesn't cease soon after it's beyond my knowledge, but I would start there before putting pills/drugs/surgery on the table.
 
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dast

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A lot of good comments. It sounds very similar to IBD, which is hard to diagnose without invasive surgery. Usually your vet can just go off the symptoms. With my cat, the IBD goes hand-in-hand with pancreatitis and the pancreatitis will cause vomiting (clear) and additional pain and discomfort. I can tell when my cat is about to have a flare up because his abdomen becomes swollen and almost hard to the touch. My vet tests for pancreatitis with a blood test to check the pancreatic enzyme levels. Maybe it is worth seeing if your vet can test this. In the event it is IBD/pancreatitis, my cat has done well with a round of antibiotics, steroid and/or vitamin B shot. This, of course, after about 5 months of craziness and a complete diet change. Good luck and I hope Floyd gets better.
 

thekittykeepers

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Before you go on to probiotics, prednisolone, or the extreme of GFT there's a simple question you need to ask:

 Where is the blood coming from?

Blood does not come from the intestinal tract itself."

Not sure where you get your information, but blood absolutely can come from the intestinal tract. The intestines and colon are organs as well. Bright fresh blood, that has not been processed by the intestines, found in or on the stool, is from the lower intestine/colon if there is no injury to the spinster. Dark tar stool is processed blood, which has a lot more variables, since it can occur from the stomach to the small intestine, and you won't really know which.

Basically, any mammal can bleed from any place in the body, since every cell of every organ must be oxygenated for sustained life, even bones bleed. I am sorry, maybe I am not reading your comment right, but it seems to be dismissing possible problems that just doesn't match with basic biology. Hemorrhoids are partially prolapsed colons, and often bleed, if the colon can't bleed, how is this possible?
 
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JMJimmy

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Sorry, I should have included the word 'usually'.  It's pretty rare for the intestinal tract above the colon to bleed unless punctured or seriously diseased. 
 

cleopatras mom

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I was linked to this thread on one of my threads. I just wanted to add my support to your situation. I understand how horrible it can all feel. My cat, Cleo, has had bloody stools since late November. We brought her to the vet, and nothing could be seen when they tested a fecal sample. They put her on Albon, just in case, and she developed constipation issues, which is a common side effect. I brought her to a more trusted vet, and they suggested it was IBS, so we put her on Royal Canin Rabbit and Peas. She grew worse after that, and showed symptoms of hunger. Nearly two months later we brought her back, and they suggested Hyperthyroidism, because she lost 3 ounces, and her heart beat was at 220. It came back with elevated calcium, and seeing that, they replied that they thought it was cancer. She said it may not be, but it was worrying for her.

So, we ordered Wellness Core turkey and duck, which is grain-free, soy free, fish free, and something else free(lol!). And she was given Prednisolone, 2.5mg. She seemed to react better, and she no longer had accidents in my room, and no longer vomitted after using the bathroom. And her stools turned normal. HOWEVER, there was still blood. We raised the dosage to 5mg of Prednisolone, and we have seemed to hit a long in the road. Now nothing is getting worse, or better. So, IF she has IBD, Wellness is NOT the cure.(there really is no 'cure' though). So, for the past few days we have put her on a home-made diet. We tried giving her raw, and she refused, so, we have been giving her home-cooked until nearly a week has passed, and then we will put her on raw. 

After having plain pork for the past two days, she still had bloody stools. but she disliked the transition, and got into a few pieces of dog food, so I am HOPING that was the reason. We also have started giving her probiotics, too. I will let you know if any of this work.

Our situations seem similar, however, she never vomitted up anything that resembled red, only a clear substance once or twice a month. And Cleo has only had a blood sample, and a few fecal samples. We have decided against any invasive surgery, or even anything that puts her under.
 

roguethecat

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The Rogue had something very similar: he appeared in my life being 4 weeks old, and never had a solid stool. He had explosive diarrhea instead. Vets were clueless. I went home cooked, where I finally found he couldn't have cooked poultry. He was fine with raw poultry. So I went raw. He never had diarrhea again (unless he he accidentally ate something canned that wasn't intended for him).

As a bonus, if you dare to go whole prey (the Rogue loved adult mice), they are full of probiotics, the right kind for a cat.

 
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floydsmom

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Thank you all for your wonderful advice, it's much appreciated! And apologies for disappearing, I wasn't receiving notifications and had no idea I was still getting replies!

Quick update on Floyd:

I've been keeping him on chicken and rice with digest-friendly dry food, and it seems to have stopped the bleeding for the time being, though he is still vomiting clear/foamy liquid almost daily. To clarify, before he would have periods of both bloody diarrhea AND bloody vomit. The vomit was always pink, while the diarrhea ranged from tar black to bright red. So the problem can't be nailed down to one specific part of the digestive track.

For the past week or so, his breathing has become labored and he has been having violent coughing fits. I took him to the vet again this morning, and after a blood test which resulted in a high white cell count, the vet thinks he likely has asthma (on top of all the digestive issues). She gave him injections of anti-inflammatory and antibiotics, and gave me a few treatments to extend the life of the injections. Apparently he will need injections every few months for the rest of his life to keep it under control. 

The vet also suggested we take him to an animal cardiologist (which I didn't know existed (thank god for pet insurance)!

Now looking into the process of reporting the breeder, who has had no interest at all in these problems. Hoping we can stop this person from continuing to breed and sell cats with chronic health issues like poor Floyd.

 
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floydsmom

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And also, the vet gave us a 3 month supply of interferon to try out.
 

ginny

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Any updates on Floyd?  I'm having the same problem with one of my kitties pooping and vomiting blood.  I guess it's a good thing they are sick of the food they've been eating and now won't touch it for the most part.  So, now is the time to try new ones that maybe they will like and will be better for them.  But what on earth do I need to feed them?  I could try chicken and rice like you did and see how they do and gradually start them on a homemade diet using cooked meats.  Right now I put down some baby food chicken/beef/turkey plus their usual food.  Today, so far, there has been no bloody vomits or poops.  
 
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floydsmom

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Hi! I do have an update on floyd actually. After we stopped giving him wet food (sticking to a mix of dry food, tuna and chicken), he got a bit better. Then he started having coughing fits and the vet said he likely has asthma. The treatment for asthma (shots every 6 weeks plus interferon and pred-forte every other day) has also cleared up the rest of his problems, though we never got a diagnosis. He is an expensive little guy but worth it now that he is happy and healhy. Hope you figure out what is wrong quickly and are able to find a fix as well!
 

ginny

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I'm sorry Floyd has asthma now! It sounds like the dry food fixed one problem and caused another. What dry food was it? Come to think of it my Gracie loved ONLY FF flaky tuna and she got asthma too. I've tried numerous dry foods (some really bad, some better) Meow Mix, Iams, purina one and beyond. She died last July at 14. Now my kitties eat NVI dry and a combo of friskies and fancy feast. They are tired of the wet food now so I'm going to have to find what they will eat. Hopefully they will like a better quality food. Tried NVI canned but they would only eat it if they were starving. Not exactly a "dew claw up"! Same with raw. But I was afraid to switch them over to it completely and they didn't exactly love what samples I gave them.

I think nutrition is the key to wellness - not the only key but a large percentage of it.
 
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floydsmom

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The asthma started before we brought tuna into the diet, but just as his digestion problems started to clear up. Vet was at a loss but said purebreds like him (in Switzerland at least) tend to have all kinds of problems. Easier to treat symptoms than send him away for a real diagnosis, and the meds he's on now are working great. You'd never know he was sick! I put the meds in his food (tuna or chicken) and he doesn't mind at all. We mix up the dry foods we give them, have tried really expensive natural stuff but didn't see any difference from the regular stuff. Overall he's a happy guy now! and we are very thankful for pet insurance :)
 

ginny

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I'm glad he is doing better now on meds and that he takes his meds so easily!  Maybe the dry food caused the asthma?  Or some ingredient in it?  That's why I asked what kind of dry food he ate.  I'm leary of giving dry food even though my kitties demand it.  They seem to prefer it over wet especially the last week or so.  So I use the NVI.  So far I haven't seen any bloody vomit since Thursday or bloody poo since Friday morning.  I've been feeding them baby food meats since Thursday evening along with their regular food.  I'm just holding my breath!  Harry is eating and sooner or later he will go poo so I'm anxious to see how it turns out.  The vet is coming Tuesday to check him and Nat.  
 
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