Cats Killing Birds

Molly92 said:

 
Well, I do have to mention that although of course it's natural for cats to hunt birds and small animals, it's not natural that the cats are there in the first place. Humans brought cats all over the world and they have become a major invasive species. Their toll on native ecosystems is huge and is a big concern for conservationists.

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I can agree that humans should not have brought cats and other nonnative animals all over the world. But it is natural that cats are in Europe and North Africa in the first place, given that they have been there "forever". How come there are still small birds and rodents in Europe and North Africa? Cats are hardly more disruptive to those environments than other native beasts of prey. At least some conservationist complaints about cats seem rather simplistic and out of place.

Back in this thread it was suggested that people buy a certain product to help protect birds from feral cats.  I think it's important to point out that the people who make this product say that it is definitely not for use with ferals. 

In the Global Ecology and Conservation Journal... our product was discussed as a remedy for feral cats to use, but honestly, we weren't consulted on that topic, and we have to respectfully disagree.

Their reasons were sound, but product-related and neglected the big issue, which is feral cats need to eat!  

So, @FLLTeam3169 I really agree with @MsAimee and @Norachan.  It's well worth taking their comments on board.

ReallySleepy said:

I can agree that humans should not have brought cats and other nonnative animals all over the world. But it is natural that cats are in Europe and North Africa in the first place, given that they have been there "forever". How come there are still small birds and rodents in Europe and North Africa? Cats are hardly more disruptive to those environments than other native beasts of prey. At least some conservationist complaints about cats seem rather simplistic and out of place.

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The domestic cats that roam freely even in Europe, Africa, and Asia are a separate species from the wild cats that still live in these areas in much smaller numbers. In healthy ecosystems, predators exist in much smaller numbers than prey species, but domestic cats roaming the world throw this proportion way out of whack. The worst areas are island nations where cats can and have easily wiped out species that only live there, but they are a considerable threat worldwide.

When a species is domesticated and loses some of its natural fear of people, it will accept food and shelter from people and its chances of surviving and reproducing dramatically increase, which is why domestic cat populations have spiralled out of control, unlike their wild counterparts. So it should be our responsibility to spay and neuter our pet cats and keep them indoors.

And before you ask if it's really such a bad thing if there are fewer birds and lizards, remember that their diet includes many insects, including disease carrying ones, that we as humans would not like to have more of!

I agree that people should not allow their domesticated pet cats to roam outside if they kill birds and other wildlife. These cats are already being fed and taken care of by humans, and do not need to eat wildlife prey. I might add that not every domesticated cat kills birds, though some do. However, many feral cats, especially over the age of one year, cannot be domesticated to live indoors or be touched and handled by humans. They are wild animals. The ones that are TNR'd and fed by a caregiver are not inclined to hunt birds. Mine weren't. The birds nested in the eaves of my porch above their heads, and the cats never bothered them. But there are feral cats who are not being cared for by human caregivers. They need to eat and feed their young so that they don't starve to death. What makes a bird's life more valuable than a cat's life? If you catch and hang a device around a feral cat's neck so that it is unable to hunt, it will starve to death. I do not see how that is morally ethical. And by the way, cats have historically saved humans from disease by hunting plague infested rats, so they have value as well as birds. So let's educate people to keep their domesticated cats indoors, and allow the feral cats without human caregivers to hunt for themselves. But I have noticed that there are people who have an irrational hatred towards cats, especially feral cats, and who would like nothing better than to see them caught and euthanized or robbed of their ability to hunt. So nothing we can say will change their minds.

Molly92 said:

When a species is domesticated and loses some of its natural fear of people, it will accept food and shelter from people and its chances of surviving and reproducing dramatically increase, which is why domestic cat populations have spiralled out of control, unlike their wild counterparts.

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Maybe this is the real clue: feeding + unfettered breeding results in an ecological anomaly. And of course they are separate species, but I am not sure how that is significant. If anything, wild cats should be even more professional killers than domestic cats.

What made me react was your assertion that, "it's not natural that the cats are there in the first place". I don't agree. Cats are just as much part of nature as other animals. The problem is the sheer, inflated number of them and the fact that they have been exported to foreign habitats where they do a great deal of harm. I support a very strict regime of spaying and neutering of cats, and so do all the animal rescue organizations. But so far, getting the authorities to do anything at all remains a pipe dream.

Something that I find surprising about the ecology is that birds have not learned to escape. Probably, there have always been animals that have preyed on birds. After millions of years they should have learned to fly out of the cat's reach. But I see cats catching birds that just sit there twittering their warning signal. Very odd.

MsAimee said:

I agree that people should not allow their domesticated pet cats to roam outside if they kill birds and other wildlife. These cats are already being fed and taken care of by humans, and do not need to eat wildlife prey. I might add that not every domesticated cat kills birds, though some do. However, many feral cats, especially over the age of one year, cannot be domesticated to live indoors or be touched and handled by humans. They are wild animals. The ones that are TNR'd and fed by a caregiver are not inclined to hunt birds. Mine weren't. The birds nested in the eaves of my porch above their heads, and the cats never bothered them. But there are feral cats who are not being cared for by human caregivers. They need to eat and feed their young so that they don't starve to death. What makes a bird's life more valuable than a cat's life? If you catch and hang a device around a feral cat's neck so that it is unable to hunt, it will starve to death. I do not see how that is morally ethical. And by the way, cats have historically saved humans from disease by hunting plague infested rats, so they have value as well as birds. So let's educate people to keep their domesticated cats indoors, and allow the feral cats without human caregivers to hunt for themselves. But I have noticed that there are people who have an irrational hatred towards cats, especially feral cats, and who would like nothing better than to see them caught and euthanized or robbed of their ability to hunt. So nothing we can say will change their minds.

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You have a rather mixed message here. It's OK for feral cats to catch birds since they need food, and they are also useful since they catch rats. Right, but may domestic cat also kill rats? And if so, how do we prevent them from killing birds? There are no feral cats here, at any rate not in my neighborhood. My cat is the premier rat catcher around the condominium where I live. As long as he can do this, I don't see how I can stop him from killing an occasional bird, and I am not convinced that it matters greatly. I am still glad that he primarily kills mice and rats.

I understand that some of you have reasons to keep your cats indoors and advise other to do so. But where I live, in the Old World, it is simply not going to happen, no matter what you or I or anyone else thinks about it.
 

ReallySleepy said:

But where I live, in the Old World, it is simply not going to happen, no matter what you or I or anyone else thinks about it.

 

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The "Old World"? Where is that?

Primula said:

The "Old World"? Where is that?

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I don't know whether I should take this question literally. But if so, I am sure you know that you live in the New World. The Old World is that dreary old continent on the other side of the "pond".

Okay, I live just outside Oslo, Norway.

I can appreciate the fact that people who live on farms and in the country will allow their cats outside to keep away rodents, and that some birds will likely be killed as well. The so-called barn cat serves a useful purpose, and some people in the "old country" agree to care for feral cats who serve this purpose. I think people get upset when cats in urban and suburban areas roam around and kill birds for sport instead of for need, and when their presence outside doesn't serve a utilitarian purpose. Domesticated cats are safer being kept indoors or allowed out only under supervision or on a harnes. Not only do they stand a chance of becoming injured or ill roaming around outside, but when they hunt for recreation, they are competing with feral cats who need that prey to survive. Additionally, when these domesticated cats are not spayed and neutered, they fight and spray and reproduce and contribute towards the animosity the public feels towards feral cats as well. That is why many of us on this forum advocate that domesticated cats be kept indoors when possible, but also recognize that barn cats serve a purpose. Where I live there is an overabundance of birds, especially sparrows, probably because people such as myself put out bird feeders for them. They pose their own sort of health risks by defecating all over sidewalks and cars. Their feces is in fact toxic. However I would not try to deprive the birds of their right to live and survive anymore then I would try to put a bell around a feral cat's neck to deprive it of its right to hunt and survive.

ReallySleepy said:

I don't know whether I should take this question literally. But if so, I am sure you know that you live in the New World. The Old World is that dreary old continent on the other side of the "pond". :lol3:

Okay, I live just outside Oslo, Norway.

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I was being facetious. British sense of humor. Over here, we refer to it as the "old country".

I had a beautiful Oslo friend when I lived in London. Nina Spilling. Wonder whatever happened to her.

PJB755 said:

 
I know, this is a weird complaint.  But I have about 6 ferals that I feed and lately they seem to be catching and killing quite a few birds.  Big shock, right?  Cats killing birds, who would have thought it.  But I just feel so bad for the birds.  You would think as much as I feed these cats that they would be too fat and lazy to catch a bird.  But I know it is in their nature, and I'm sure there is no way to stop them.  Does anyone else have this problem?  My sister jokingly suggested I catch the cats and put collars with bells on them.  

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Hi, without meaning to sound trite, but I hear that birds taste just like chicken.  We eat alot of chicken and few seem to think anything about all those poor little guys. But I have the same bird problem over in my neck of the woods, in fact since I've been caring for my feral colony, we no longer have any song-birds in our numerous trees. I have been working a strategy to resolve the matter. I recently fabricated an outdoor 'climbing-tree' for my feral kitties, with a twist!  On the very top, I have included a bird-feeder and bath. The kitties can not access that area. If the chirpers choose to land on the lawn, well they are on their own. Although I have been experimenting with ultrasonic cat dissauders in my corral area, as a sort-of no-kitty-zone and just for birds. Its too early for report.

My climbing tree has several different levels, and the interior is all lined with shag carpet scraps donated by a carpet dealer. Its about 9ft tall total. I took the liberty of adding 6 per cubical 50Watt sand-bar power resistors ( 24x $19 total via eBay) coupled to a pair of 12Volt 34Amp/Hour Gel-Cell batteries (2x $17 via eBay) controlled by a programmable digital thermostat ($12 via eBay) and the whole kit-&-kaboodle is charged by a 50Watt solar-panel ($75 via eBay). So when its cold and drops below 65F the power resistors waste power by heating up the cubicals, the thermostat regulates the temperature for around 72F, keeping all the little kitty paws warm. Above 65F the thermostat turns'm off while the thermal-inertia of the resistors drives ambient up to around 72F. During daylight the sun charges the batteries. The kitties all hang out up there!! But so far no birds?

Alpha_Kitty

@AlphaKitty  That sounds like a great set up for your colony cats, but do you really want to attract birds to the same structure? Song birds won't know that the cats can't get to them. They'll just see predators and stay away.

Maybe you could turn a few trees in the area into cat-free zones? I stop my feral cats from climbing out of the enclosure by attaching sheets of plastic to the trees. Maybe if you had a few trees that cats couldn't climb you could put some bird feeders in those trees.


Cats can't get their claws into the plastic so they don't go up the trees.

Hello everyone,

Sorry for the delayed response - our team only meets a couple times a week and we didn't meet during the Thanksgiving break

Thank you for all of the feedback; we definitely appreciate it.  We are starting to realize that our project might be a little controversial.  Here are some of the things we are adjusting as a result of your comments.

Thank you for highlighting the risks associated with trying to put a collar on a truly feral cat.  We decided that our goal should be to target the collar to outdoor cats that do not necessarily have an owner but are cared for.  Within our team, we have several relatives and friends that care for abandoned cats or other "domesticated feral" cats.  These are the cats that are fed and cared on a regular basis but are not allowed indoors or given a real collar (animal control has really started to go after them recently in our area).  We do not want to harm cats that rely on hunting for their survival.  However, from personal experience we know that even well-fed cats often like to hunt, so these are the cats we think this collar might be appropriate for.

We really like some of the project ideas and if we could go back in time perhaps we would have chosen one of those ideas to pursue (like inexpensive, easy-to-make cat shelters).  However, our project goal is to help birds from getting killed and we are presenting our project in a competition this coming weekend, so we decided to stick with the collar since we do not have enough time to change the project now.

Lastly, from your feedback we realized that some of our research might have been a little biased toward the bird side of the issue.  However, we are worried that if we do not come up with a humane and cat-safe solution than more cities and countries will pass laws like the ones being considered in Washington DC and in New Zealand that seeks to completely eliminate outdoor cats without regard to how it is accomplished.

If anyone is wants to try the collar, we appreciate any other feedback that you would recommend to improve it!  We have created several test prototypes that several people in our area have been using with the cats they care for.

Thank you,

Team 3169 

I had a prolific bird catcher years ago. I finally put up a tall bird feeder and it stopped much of the killing. The birds came out to eat from the feeder instead of being on the ground getting food.

I had a lovebird one time and he had a hard time flying due to stress. Everytime he came out of the cage, he'd walk on the ground. One day, he flew onto the ground. I had been warned by Smokey's previous owner that she was a bird hunter but I didn't think much of it. So as soon as he hit the ground, Smokey ran up to him, pinned his wings to his side with her claws so that he couldn't fly and tried to break his neck. I screamed and she released him. I got rid of my bird after that.